What’s wrong with being biased because your family will directly benefit from the new school? Haha, nothing.
Our family did not use the school system until 6 years after we bought our home. When my DD was in second grade they put up a special bond/tax increase for major renovations/upgrades to a vote. On the night of the vote, I reminded my H to vote and he said something like “he wasn’t sure about voting yes/no and needed to review if it was worth the tax increase”. I was all “Vote yes! We are actually going to benefit from it for our daughter’s education” He laughed but agreed.
I don’t think you can change the minds of people on fixed incomes who don’t value their community even though a good/crappy school district directly affects the value of their home. You can just hope that there are enough people who show up to vote for smart spending on education.
So, here’s the thing…with populations growing and schools aging, new schools are going to have to be built. I don’t have kid, and having my taxes increased by $100/mo (or anything, really!) to pay for a new school would be a little sigh-inducing for me because I will never have kids who will be able to take advantage of what my tax dollars have helped to pay for, but there are a lot of things my tax dollars help fund that I don’t take advantage of. And we have to think about the greater good, not just ourselves.
I’ll also say this - I work as an account manager for public sector entities who are customers of a huge tech company. Seeing how school and government buildings are having to navigate adopting new technology in old buildings is so difficult. It’s expensive, it’s not always an easy path forward, and sometimes what they want/need to do is just not possible in old buildings. In order to keep things running smoothly and provide children with the advantages needed in this day and age, our schools NEED to be refreshed. I’m seeing it firsthand via my job. The benefits are going to outweigh the drawbacks in the long run.
ETA: if my post came across as aggressive, I 1,000% didn’t intend it that way! I’ve become more passionate about the quality of our public schools, govt buildings, roads, etc since taking this job. We see a lot of things other people don’t, and the need for upgrades and updates is overwhelming.
It’s cost saving. They build schools with fewer room and then build one work room for teachers to work in during their prep. That way every classroom is used every period. No room is ever empty. But there’s so many negative impacts to faculty. The new school seems to be full of brand new teachers because no one with any experience wants to go to this system.
Just out of curiosity bc I genuinely don’t know - is this cost saving offset by an increase in fuel/heat costs? I cannot imagine heating one big space costs the same as heating individual rooms where you can close the doors and keep the heat in. In the building I work in the classrooms are a reasonable temperature but the hallways and cafeteria are freezing (in the winter). And how is that large of a space efficiently cooled or air circulated effectively during the hot months?
The school in familiar with is individual classrooms with doors. Just like traditional classrooms, but they are building fewer of them and forcing teachers to share. They claim they want to make it more like a college campus (where faculty aren’t assigned individual rooms and move around). But HS isn’t college and I have a lot of issues with it.
Post by starburst604 on Mar 9, 2023 13:21:00 GMT -5
We had a similar vote in our town a couple of years ago about the middle school. The project was to build one large middle school to replace the two existing middle schools, which are in pretty bad shape. The town had also been granted federal funding that was use it or lose it, so if it was voted down we wouldn't be granted that funding if the town decided to move forward in another 5-10 years. We had all the same naysayers and olds who didn't want their taxes going up, but I'm guessing they didn't have that same concern when the new senior center was constructed. It seemed insane to turn down that federal funding so I'm glad it passed and now DD will go to that school in a few years. The existing school that we're districted in looks like a prison! In general I feel like investing in education is always the right thing, even if people forget that once their kids age out of school.
I don’t think you can change the minds of people on fixed incomes who don’t value their community even though a good/crappy school district directly affects the value of their home. You can just hope that there are enough people who show up to vote for smart spending on education.
I saw this firsthand in my neighborhood. I didn't know when we moved here but townships in Michigan just...don't get the roads repaved. My street was paved in the 70s. They will come out and "fix" potholes as in fill it but the whole road is not even so it's like offroading. In order to have it repaved they do a special assessment for all the houses along the stretch of road and then their taxes will go up for 10 years to pay off the repaving, you need 50% of the homeowners to sign the petition for it. It turned into a really vicious fight with so many people complaining about the taxes, the loudest lady just kept saying it must be nice to have extra money laying around but she's the only person on the street with a pool (above ground because we have septic, but STILL). The other super loud opposition lady said she couldn't afford it, she just moved in and has 3 teens that will need new cars in the coming years which was another argument that enraged me. It failed, our roads are shit. My stepdaughter was running and injured herself tripping in a pothole. It's maddening.
This is how schools get built -- taxes. I'm not sure what the other answer is. If the town needs a new school building, the money has to come from somewhere, and everyone pays (it's to the benefit of the community to have well educated kids, even if you don't have a child yourself)
One thing my neighborhood has been pushing for is for developers to shoulder some of the cost. In my town, lots of developers are tearing down shopping centers and putting in apartment complexes, with no responsibility to support the local schools. Apartments mean more people which means more kids in schools that are already overfilled.
This happened in my town. They started to build and build...but no plans for a new school. Eventually when I was in 3rd and 5th grade I ended up in a nasty trailer, then my high school built them too because we were over crowded. My parents fought reaaaaally hard for a new school, elementary, middle and high school. It only finally passed when I was in 11th grade because the state had to give a bond because we had asetose and other things that caused health problems. I got to live through the construction (literally still went to school in a construction zone), and my parents got to pay for it after I graduated. I understand why they had to keep paying, esp when they live in a state with no sales tax, but it's frustrating as freaking hell. . It doesn't matter if you have kids that will use the school, grown kids who won't use the school, or no kids, $1200 a year increase over 30 years is a LOT of money. It will only go up from there too. Yes you shouldn't buy a house if you can't afford that much, but no one plans such a big increase at once. Unfortunately the folks just buying now will also get screwed because houses are already so over priced, and now they need to cough up another $1200 or more depending on the price. It's not that easy to just find another district with a better school building or property tax, or move because taxes are now too high.
I would vote to support the new school because you have to, and the increase in property values and all that, but I think that the bill should also be funded through other sources. As others said make the developers pay a big portion, build new commercial buildings to bring in jobs and taxes (yes this changes small town feel, but you'll be happy to not drive 20 mins for milk), look for grants (easier said than done) etc. and truly show every single penny of tax dollars is being used before you send a big bill for more money. See also towns that build huge senior community centers that have day activities but no housing. Could that money have gone to the school?
Post by DarcyLongfellow on Mar 9, 2023 14:02:01 GMT -5
I always vote for additional funding for schools. Our schools (Florida) are grossly underfunded.
The area where I live is growing exponentially with literally hundreds of new houses being built every month -- all in brand new neighborhoods heavily marketed to families with kids. Our schools are insane. We're building 3 new ones next year.
I'm a little east of most of the growth, so we haven't personally been affected except that these new neighborhoods are often zoned for our school (even though it means a long bus ride for them), so our school population is constantly growing to a huge number, then dropping in half when the new areas get their new schools.
Relocatable classrooms (trailers) are fine with me for the most part -- our school has them most years. But a whole school in trailers would be very difficult to manage. I'd worry about security as well as about things like a playground and cafeteria. And where would kids eat lunch or have recess?
People in my area love the new school buildings -- they're brand new and nice, and they have the latest technology. Also, they are built with all of the new security requirements in mind, rather than having to add things after the fact. For example, our elementary school has to have bulletproof glass protecting the front office, including the receptionist. But it looks really awkward because when the school was built 30 years ago, you could just wander straight in without having to even walk through the front office. The new schools have the same glass, but it doesn't look or feel awkward.
Retrofitting old buildings to today's standards is expensive. I'm surprised the quoted increase to update the existing school isn't more than building a new school. That is what we have run into in our district. It is literally cheaper to build a new building.
Kids need a safe building in which to learn. Things cost money. I'd vote for it.
My son's school is like this. It's one big room divided in half by bookshelves. Sometimes they are tall, sometimes they are waist height. He also has ADHD. I hhhaaaaaaate it. Next year he moves up to a school with walls (although they have a door arch to another classroom but more closed off than now) and I'm excited to see if that goes better for him.
I thought this was a 70s dad, our schools are all old. Why are they building a NEW school like this? WTF?
It’s cost saving. They build schools with fewer room and then build one work room for teachers to work in during their prep. That way every classroom is used every period. No room is ever empty. But there’s so many negative impacts to faculty. The new school seems to be full of brand new teachers because no one with any experience wants to go to this system.
Interesting. I'm in a high growth district, we have opened new schools every year for a while, including some replacement campuses. None of our schools, new or old, are like this. Some used to be but were retrofitted. I think some high school teachers have to float occasionally but it isn't the norm.
Post by litskispeciality on Mar 9, 2023 14:30:22 GMT -5
I should clarify my school district did'nt get a new high school, they refinished most of the old inside, then added an addt. I don't know what's the best option.
Another thing people don't realize is regional schools also outgrow capacity. I went to a 4 town regional where there was talk of breaking off, but then it wasn't sustainable to have one town have it's own Pre K - 12. The next district over always tried to kick out the smallest town in district because they didn't have room and were using trailers...but they were the "better" school with more resources. Again we need more urban planners in the town or city councils saying hey if we have 20 new kids under 6 moving in year so often we're going to run out of room in x amount of time. Not that the tax payers would listen.
I should clarify my school district did'nt get a new high school, they refinished most of the old inside, then added an addt. I don't know what's the best option.
Another thing people don't realize is regional schools also outgrow capacity. I went to a 4 town regional where there was talk of breaking off, but then it wasn't sustainable to have one town have its own Pre K - 12. The next district over always tried to kick out the smallest town in district because they didn't have room and were using trailers...but they were the "better" school with more resources. Again we need more urban planners in the town or city councils saying hey if we have 20 new kids under 6 moving in year so often we're going to run out of room in x amount of time. Not that the tax payers would listen.
Does your district not do growth projections?
We don't have regional schools in my area, districts are wholly contained within their bounds so maybe that part is different. Our school board has growth projections done regularly, the current ones are through 2030.
Post by liveintheville on Mar 9, 2023 14:51:29 GMT -5
We got lucky. When our eldest started K he got a brand new school for K through 8. And when he started high school he got a brand new school. I’m so thankful to our city for funding this and the residents pushing for it to happen.
I should clarify my school district did'nt get a new high school, they refinished most of the old inside, then added an addt. I don't know what's the best option.
Another thing people don't realize is regional schools also outgrow capacity. I went to a 4 town regional where there was talk of breaking off, but then it wasn't sustainable to have one town have its own Pre K - 12. The next district over always tried to kick out the smallest town in district because they didn't have room and were using trailers...but they were the "better" school with more resources. Again we need more urban planners in the town or city councils saying hey if we have 20 new kids under 6 moving in year so often we're going to run out of room in x amount of time. Not that the tax payers would listen.
Does your district not do growth projections?
We don't have regional schools in my area, districts are wholly contained within their bounds so maybe that part is different. Our school board has growth projections done regularly, the current ones are through 2030.
I think the district did growth projections, which is why my parents fought so hard for a renovated or new building before my brother and I graduated. I think it was mostly people not voting on the tax increase, but my district was awful so I'm sure there was no projection either. They eventually had to build a new elementary school when I was graduating HS because the town grew so much. They had a vote a few years ago to leave the regional school district, but thankfully it got voted down. There wouldn't be enough growth to sustain a whole new district.
I pretty much just vote yes on school bonds and issues like that. Hopefully they're building big enough - my old area built schools and within a year there were trailers for overflow.
Property values may increase w/the nicer facilities, so there's another side benefit - less so to the older folks complaining since that in turn may raise their property taxes too.
Our property taxes have nearly doubled since we've lived here (up to $12K/yr) - I get anxious that the area isn't adequately planning for home values to flatline and that they're pricing families out of the area.
This may vary by state, but here you can't build for growth because of kind of funding. You can only design and build based on the current numbers. Smart architects will include spaces and room in their design for flexing a space down the line, or increase the number/placement of bathrooms to handle higher number later, etc... but it does add to the cost.
share.memebox.com/x/uKhKaZmemebox referal code for 20% off! DD1 "J" born 3/2003 DD2 "G" born 4/2011 DS is here! "H" born 2/2014 m/c#3 1-13-13 @ 9 weeks m/c#2 11-11-12 @ 5w2d I am an extended breastfeeding, cloth diapering, baby wearing, pro marriage equality, birth control lovin', Catholic mama.
I pretty much just vote yes on school bonds and issues like that. Hopefully they're building big enough - my old area built schools and within a year there were trailers for overflow.
Property values may increase w/the nicer facilities, so there's another side benefit - less so to the older folks complaining since that in turn may raise their property taxes too.
Our property taxes have nearly doubled since we've lived here (up to $12K/yr) - I get anxious that the area isn't adequately planning for home values to flatline and that they're pricing families out of the area.
This may vary by state, but here you can't build for growth because of kind of funding. You can only design and build based on the current numbers. Smart architects will include spaces and room in their design for flexing a space down the line, or increase the number/placement of bathrooms to handle higher number later, etc... but it does add to the cost.
I was going to say the same. Our small town (in MA) built a K-2nd school in 2006 and we were bursting at the seams by 2010 because the state funding only allowed for them to build it based on the population that day, despite consistent growth. It stinks.
A good, safe school benefits all in towns even the elderly and childless. I'll happily pay taxes and vote yes on school bonds till I can no longer push the button.
Ditto, word for word. I'm childfree by choice but still happily pay for schools and vote yes for school bonds because I strongly believe that an educated population benefits everyone.
People who don't want to support schools if they don't have school-aged kids drive me crazy. They've benefited either directly (if they attended a public school) or indirectly (though others who attended a public school) from the public education system, but they don't want to pay back into it to benefit others.
This may vary by state, but here you can't build for growth because of kind of funding. You can only design and build based on the current numbers. Smart architects will include spaces and room in their design for flexing a space down the line, or increase the number/placement of bathrooms to handle higher number later, etc... but it does add to the cost.
I was going to say the same. Our small town (in MA) built a K-2nd school in 2006 and we were bursting at the seams by 2010 because the state funding only allowed for them to build it based on the population that day, despite consistent growth. It stinks.
You can also have the opposite problems.. My sister (a teacher) moved to a new build community in 1996, and the developer was required to put in an adequate number of schools. For years, the district was right at their maximum capacity. And now within 5-10 years all those kids have graduated, not enough newer/younger families have moved in/been started, and they've had such significant declining enrollment that sites are being shuttered.