I did all the things your dd does in high school, including being the lead in every show our department did that I was eligible to audition for (some were based on which class you were in) and having anxiety. I don’t remember being that exhausting. But my parents had a get home, eat, do homework rule. And I couldn’t use the phone or TV (it was the early 90s, that’s all we had) after 9 and lights out at 9:30.
DS is similar as well. He’s a junior, so I have a few more years muddling through this. I have a lights out at 10 on school nights policy, but in doing that he’s realized over the past two years that sleep helps his grades (he has 4 AP classes). So most nights he’s in bed by 9-9:30. I usually ask him his evening plan each morning when we eat breakfast. I started eating breakfast with him last year. It’s only 10-15 minutes but that time to say “what does your day look like? When are you doing your homework?” seems to help, since we all know teens aren’t great planners. On super busy weeks, we have those “Week at a Glance” calendar pages and fill one out. It helps him feel less overwhelmed to see it written out by day and cross tasks off.
With theater, what we’d do when I was in high school shows (and college shows to be honest), is set up a space in the seats or the wings that was out of the way. If I wasn’t in a scene or song, I’d go to my space and do a math problem or some flash cards or whatever. I’d pick whatever required the least brainpower but it meant less homework at home that night.
But I’d give her the mental health day today. As someone mentioned upthread, there’s a huge letdown the Monday after your show closes. It’s like a depression. And depending on the show and the cast, it can be worse with some shows.
I would also let her take the day off. You know your kid best as to whether she’s manipulating you, but she sounds like a good kid and from here it looks like she’s telling you what she needs and getting upset when you’re ignoring it, which is probably making her feel worse. That is objectively a lot of things in a short period of time. I live my life go-go-go, and if I don’t deliberately stop and take a breather periodically, my body will do it for me at a less convenient time.
I might attempt a negotiation with doing a half day, going in late (or leaving early, if they mark attendance at the beginning of the day) and see if she bites. Maybe once she’s in the building she’ll rally.
Post by expectantsteelerfan on Mar 13, 2023 7:29:26 GMT -5
I feel this so much right now as my dd is also struggling with anxiety, but also wants to do ALL the things, but then also feels overwhelmed at times from all the stuff she chooses to do, and just this morning was in tears that she can't go to school because she doesn't feel well, but I know she just doesn't feel well because she's tired, and she's tired because she didn't sleep well last night because she was up late because she was freaked out because she CHOSE to watch a scary youtube video that her friends were talking about. She is only in 5th though and we know her anxiety isn't managed well and are in the process of getting her evaluated (appt. this wed. actually) to change her plan. But I KNOW if it was a day she had morning musical rehearsal, no way she would be asking to stay home, and I also know that 'letting' her stay home (which is in quotes because there is no way she could go to school in the state she's in right now) will have repercussions anyway because she's going to freak out about making up the work tomorrow when tuesdays are her busy days with musical rehearsal, dance, and basketball and it's going to make for a late night tomorrow and lead to her being tired for the rest of the week. We've talked to her therapist about not doing so many activities, but she talks about her activities are the things that make her happiest in life, so she really doesn't want to actually give any of them up, so we haven't forced her to yet at this point.
I would let her have a mental health day. That's a LOT. And going to the party is a really important part of social/emotional health, even if it did take up time and was late.
If you think it will become too common of a request, maybe sit down and talk about how many are reasonable for the rest of the year. Two? Three MAX if you decide to grant a bonus day, and she hasn't had other sick days? And then let her decide how to "spend" them.
She doesn't have ADHD - we had a full neuropsych eval this summer, anxiety is the root of her issues. Therapist hasn't recommended medication yet, but we're open it if it comes to that. And to her credit, when she calms down, she's becoming really good at figuring out what is *actually* upsetting her. Had a (much too late, but at least it happened?) chat with her last night, and it was the perfect storm: post-show let down, sadness about the seniors who have taken her under their wings graduating, end of the marking period stress, and catching up on work that she had to let slide last week (she had already talked to her teachers about it, they said they know she'll get it done when she can, it's not a pattern, etc). All piled up on a couple weeks of zero sleep.
She didn't ask to miss school this morning, but I think we may bail on school Thursday AM after a dr appt and go out to breakfast. She has stuff that afternoon she can't miss, but not much is happening that morning.
She sounds like a pretty great kid. We all get overwhelmed when we have a lot going on, as adults, and those feelings are amplified as a teen. What is the downside to allowing it? I would let her have it, and make it clear it isn't going to happen often, if that is your concern. But truly, let a kid who is doing all the right things have a break when she is coming to you and saying she needs a break.
I had another thought - I didn’t work as a teen, at least not during the school year. My mom said school was my only job.
I take mental health days at my job. Always have and always will.
We cannot be expected to grind day-in and day-out. Yes, the fun stuff causes wear and tear, too.
I came to echo this and the ADHD comments. Sounds so much like me, and I was just finally diagnosed in September.
Re: cast party - this feels like the same as a work happy hour to me. Yes, you can decide not to go, but really, you'd probably look shitty and it may affect your down the road (in this case even just socially. School is hard!)
Post show sadness can be really bad. That definitely could be part of it.
I am a stickler for school but I would let her miss in this situation. But I would make sure she understands what she will miss and if that will just make things worse. My dd (also freshman) will want to miss a day but knows she will miss a bunch of work. She had to miss a day 2 weeks ago and she was so excited. But coming back she ended up being so stressed out about the make up work. So maybe she should really think about how that will affect her anxiety and if there’s a better day to miss.
If she doesn’t have adhd can she talk about the homework with her therapist. Is it anxiety that keeps her from not getting it done? I get the last couple weeks were busy but if this is normal for her she really needs to organize her time better so she’s not up that late. I would figure out a reasonable bedtime for her and talk to her about how she needs to get homework done before that. Certainly we make exceptions for my dd if she’s super busy or has extra homework. But she generally has a rough bedtime and her work needs done before that. Yeah teens want to stay up late. She doesn’t need to be asleep at that time but her screen time is shut off at a certain time and she needs in bed. Can your dd talk with therapist about appropriate bedtime and then working out a reasonable time management schedule for getting homework done?
Post by ProfessorArtNerd on Mar 13, 2023 8:04:02 GMT -5
Maybe I'm projecting bc my kid has nothing near straight As, but what do grades have to do with mental health days? Some kids work their asses off for Cs. Even if someone doesn't work particularly hard, I still think they get to take a mental every once in a while.
Maybe I'm projecting bc my kid has nothing near straight As, but what do grades have to do with mental health days? Some kids work their asses off for Cs. Even if someone doesn't work particularly hard, I still think they get to take a mental every once in a while.
Great point. DS is close to straight As. He got one B last semester - AP Chemistry. He works his ass off in that class. It’s well known that it’s the hardest science class offered at our school. When he was bummed about the B, I told him I was more proud of that B than I was of any of his As. And we had a whole talk about how if you work hard and put in the effort and get a B (or whatever grade you worked hard for) that’s a lot different than getting a B in a class that you flaked on. He tutored a student in Geometry last year. When they started, she was failing the class. She worked hard and got a C in the class. Her dad was very proud of that C!
My high school freshman is also a straight A honor student and I don’t have to do a thing to keep on top of him. He is in the top 10 of his class, and keeps himself busy with various clubs. He’s generally a good, responsible, kind kid.
He gets at least 1 mental health day per trimester provided he’s not missing a due date or any tests/quizzes/labs, and he must make up any work he missed. Otherwise, no questions asked.
My younger two also get mental health days with the same rules.
Maybe I'm projecting bc my kid has nothing near straight As, but what do grades have to do with mental health days? Some kids work their asses off for Cs. Even if someone doesn't work particularly hard, I still think they get to take a mental every once in a while.
you're totally right.
I just included that piece I guess because I had a feeling the "how are her grades" question would come up. We don't expect all A's, but that's where she's at (so far). But you're right that the letter grade doesn't necessarily reflect the child's commitment and work ethic in coursework.
Maybe I'm projecting bc my kid has nothing near straight As, but what do grades have to do with mental health days? Some kids work their asses off for Cs. Even if someone doesn't work particularly hard, I still think they get to take a mental every once in a while.
I agree. I grew up an overachiever and teachers pet kind of kid but my husband, SD, and DS all have ADHD (SD1 does not but she's also not an A student) and they just have really changed my perspective on things. I used to think getting good grades, going to a good college etc was THE path for life but I'm seeing them create different paths and it's pretty cool so I'm not super pressed about it anymore. Especially with the student loan debt situation being what it is.
Post by MixedBerryJam on Mar 13, 2023 8:54:34 GMT -5
Writing this down it sounds kind of lame but when my kids needed a mental health day (or even just a plain old sick day) I was generally okay with it. But the rule in our house was that you couldn’t watch TV or play video games during school hours. So if you’re home sick-sick, you nap, and if you’re home for a mental health day you can find a book or hobby or something to do. No screens though. It worked well cutting down on staying home “just because.”
I would let her have a day without a second thought. School productions are so time-intensive. I wouldn’t begrudge her a full weekend of shows plus a cast party (no way should she have missed that) nor am I surprised that she’s tired or distracted when it comes to schoolwork.
By your own admission, anxiety therapy was skipped for the show rehearsals.
I think a day, a deep breath, and a conversation about getting back on track now that the show is over is a good path forward.
I don't have a teen yet but I will say that we started building mental health days into the academic calendar at my university a year or so ago. I think we might have borrowed a day from fall break and a day from spring break but it is on top of those things. She's expressing what she needs and self-advocating and I would respect that.
It does sound like there's a root cause to be addressed, but I realize that takes time and there's an immediate issue to handle, so I think you need to give your daughter (and yourself) the latitude to make a decision about this short-term situation as an isolated event. Whichever choice you make doesn't have to be this irreversible commitment to following a particular path.
She didn't ask to miss school this morning, but I think we may bail on school Thursday AM after a dr appt and go out to breakfast.
That sounds like a really nice compromise
We are in the opposite position. DD is sleeping right now because she also got ragged and sick. She's having a little "no screens revival" day (at my suggestion - she wasn't looking good last night).
In our house, putting away screens to rest is a general policy, not a punishment. She even helped me remember when I had COVID. lol.
Post by DefenseAgainstTheDarkArts22 on Mar 13, 2023 9:50:18 GMT -5
It sounds like she is in therapy to help but maybe is not to the place where she can handle it herself yet. With everything she is excelling at, I'd vote for letting her take a day. Keep an eye on it to make sure it isn't excessive but she doesn't seem to be slacking.
That being said, the post above is exactly how my ADHD presented in school. Overscheduling, overcommitting, and driving yourself into the ground until you are completely burnt out. Letting her take a day now may be quite helpful for how she learns to manage to take scheduled down-time in the future. Something a lot of us ADHD folks have trouble with is relaxing and taking time for yourself without being 'productive'.
I think you are doing an excellent job parenting an ambitious, well rounded teen.
I think your question stems from guiding/allowing for time away from obligations (like attending classes) while maintaining all of these academic, volunteer, and social responsibilities. We all struggle with this. The only advice I would add is - when do you allow her to shift from “begging” you to stay home from letting her make the decision to stay home (and live with the consequences)? I know it seems subtle, but you seem to have the sole burden to decide and she just asks, and asks.
I guess my advice is to allow her to experiment with this “responsibility” to decide when she’s sick enough or tired enough (even due to her own poor choices) to stay home now, than when she is away at college or at her first job. I saw a lot of talented and highly driven college classmates fail miserably when they finally had the freedom to skip classes. Not everyone but some. And it was sad.
I do like posters ideas of saying they would do 1-2 tired/ mental health days per school year. We've had absences due to Covid and influenza in the fall, and there was so much to make up, so we were really trying hard to attend. But if those illnesses had not been there and the days taken off already, I might be more open to taking a day or two off.
Regarding doing homework where she "dicks around and doesn't start until after dinner" - this was me. I would do some of the easier homework earlier in the evening, but I couldn't grind out some of the things that required more intense concentrating until later. I realized not that long ago that it is because the house got much quieter after dinner and there were way fewer distractions. Even now I can't grind out serious work unless it's quiet and I am not constantly interrupted by toddlers, kids, TV, unhelpful husband, etc. I've realized as an adult that it's the anxiety that doesn't let me block out the world and get the homework/adult work done until everyone leaves me alone. Your daughter is lucky to have you help her with it.
My parents would have never allowed me a mental health day, but I might allow it for an otherwise good kid. Especially at a high school level where she would know if she was missing something important in school or not by skipping a day.
In theory yes I think kids need mental health days. I let DD take one a year in elementary school. In junior high it’s just too hard. The make up work is very stressful and just defeats the purpose. Even DD is like nope. When she was out with the flu it took literal weeks to make up everything. I have however picked her up for lunch and skip PE.
I am a consummate procrastinator. I, too, dicked around on starting my homework until way late. I always had practice after school, then ate, then pretended to do homework for an hour, then watched TV, then actually did my homework. I also have anxiety.
My mother wouldn't ever countenance a mental health day. All school was important. All grades were important. High level achievement was expected because she knew, she said, that I was capable.
Let me tell you, I really could've used a couple.
That said, my daughter is the same as me and asks constantly. Do I think she needs one sometimes? Yes. Do I say yes sometimes? Yes. Am I worn down and exhausted by being put, by her constant requests, into a position of saying no and then dealing with the blowback? ALSO YES.
I told her this semester she gets one freebie, so long as she's not missing a test. She hasn't asked once. I think knowing she CAN has made it less of a constant churn in her brain. She feels less trapped by her own emotions.
Eta: Actually, now that I recall, sometimes I did my homework for my afternoon classes at lunch. I REALLY dicked around. Maybe I'd have understood calculus better if I hadn't only tried to learn it while eating a sandwich.
Post by jennistarr1 on Mar 13, 2023 11:21:26 GMT -5
I have so many thoughts but pretty random so I'm just adding to the discussions
I work in a college disability office. We get requests for this as an accommodation SO MUCH (like monthly mental health days where attendance is excused). I won't get into the weeds of it, but we don't approve this. But I definitely feel like this has become a term people use....but I don't feel like it translates on to an actual thing. I feel like in life...whether that be school or work, sure, you can occasionally call out sick when there's nothing like you would see a doctor for. But I feel like you do this at your own discretion...noone is going to "excuse" that for you. You'll make up what you have to make up. And a job or even college typically allows for just a few days where you can be out without penalties. So I guess what I would want your kiddo to know is, this isn't something to bank on. You have to figure out how to get through the ebbs and flows of life by using the down time to get caught up on sleep. Also, when you have a jampacked schedule, the cookie has to crumble somewhere, but that somewhere shouldn't be school.
But then again...a run down kiddo is a recipe for getting sick sick so if this falls into an ounce of prevention...maybe
could a compromise be a sleep in day, like starting school at 10
editing...after reading some comments. It's not a thing *everywhere*, though it is a think at some places