Houses falling into the ocean (my title)

[pixy0stix]

Yet another article about people not realizing how quickly climate change is progressing, and their neighborhood falling into the sea.

RETREAT IN RODANTHE - Along three blocks in a North Carolina beach town, severe erosion is upending life, forcing hard choices and offering a glimpse of the dilemmas other coastal communities will face

wapo.st/3T98yow



ETA: Related - This American Life did an episode about how communities just aren't accepting that they will be obliterated - houses in CA falling off cliffsides that are still being sold and getting multiple bids; Miami will be underwater at the end of this century, but talking about it brings extreme resistance. Here's the full production: Apocalypse Creep - www.thisamericanlife.org/762/apocalypse-creep

[bears]

It's obviously progressing quicker than before, but I'm just flabbergasted at how surprised all of these homeowners are. They built on the ocean on a barrier island! NC regularly rebuilds Highway 12 (road that links the Northern Outer Banks) because it gets washed away and moves.

I'm all for giving people disclosures when they buy at the seafront, but I doubt any of these folks would have listened.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 13, 2023 10:08:22 GMT -5 bears said:

It's obviously progressing quicker than before, but I'm just flabbergasted at how surprised all of these homeowners are. They built on the ocean on a barrier island! NC regularly rebuilds Highway 12 (road that links the Northern Outer Banks) because it gets washed away and moves.

I'm all for giving people disclosures when they buy at the seafront, but I doubt any of these folks would have listened.

Yeah, the guy who bought in 2021? WTF was he thinking?

Also, the person who said they'll have to think about it 20-30 years down the road obviously still isn't up to date on how quickly sea level rise could (and probably will) happen. I bet in 20-30 years this entire town is gone.

[bears]

I'm also WTF about a coastal home in NC being your retirement plan. We're hit by hurricanes constantly and even when the storms that aren't so bad, homes near the coast still get wrecked! It's just a terrible, terrible plan even without sea level rise!

[Bad Dingo]

"Two doors down, Tom and Amy Urban are also preparing to move their home, and baffled it came to this so quickly.

The Colorado couple bought what they envisioned as their retirement house in January 2022..."

I can't dredge up any sympathy for any of these people.

[bdubs419]

So ironically we purchased a NC beach home last year. NOT in this area. We did a lot of research and actually backed out on one we started second guessing. We bought further back in much safer area. We will sell ASAP some day if things ever start changing in that area. There are SO many areas of coastal NC that I cannot believe people are still buying in. For example, if anyone is familiar with the North Topsail area of NC. I feel like that area is a ticking time bomb just like Rodanthe.

I looked up the home that was purchased in 2021 as the guys retirement plan/home and OMG the pictures. This shouldn’t have come as a massive surprise.

[penguingrrl]

I feel sympathy for folks in my area who are in low income seaside communities where most homes are 100+ year old bungalows and the folks are there because that’s all they can afford, and they can’t afford to move.

Given the cost of these homes and how recently most of these people bought them they can go fuck themselves for not thinking through what living on the beach on a strip of land that was never meant to be permanent means. I shake my head at them the same way I do at Sea Bright, NJs “recovery” from Sandy.

[audette]

Mar 13, 2023 10:08:22 GMT -5 bears said:

It's obviously progressing quicker than before, but I'm just flabbergasted at how surprised all of these homeowners are. They built on the ocean on a barrier island! NC regularly rebuilds Highway 12 (road that links the Northern Outer Banks) because it gets washed away and moves.

I'm all for giving people disclosures when they buy at the seafront, but I doubt any of these folks would have listened.

I wonder if they already do give them disclosures, but they get lost in the insane amount of documents that you have to sign during closing on a house.

(and, really, at closing isn't the right time to deal with these sorts of disclosures...  Not sure how or when else they might happen, but...)

[waverly]

I wonder how many are bought by people from out of state that don't realize how bad it is. We did a vacation last year to a barrier island during spring break. It was lovely. But after seeing the destruction from the hurricane hitting the barrier islands near Fort Myers this fall, I would never ever buy something on a barrier island or even right on the water. I don't think those homes would survive a direct hit.

[Velar Fricative]

Mar 13, 2023 10:37:06 GMT -5 waverly said:

I wonder how many are bought by people from out of state that don't realize how bad it is. We did a vacation last year to a barrier island during spring break. It was lovely. But after seeing the destruction from the hurricane hitting the barrier islands near Fort Myers this fall, I would never ever buy something on a barrier island or even right on the water. I don't think those homes would survive a direct hit.

I mean, even the name "barrier" island should give people pause...

[pixy0stix]

Mar 13, 2023 10:37:06 GMT -5 waverly said:

I wonder how many are bought by people from out of state that don't realize how bad it is. We did a vacation last year to a barrier island during spring break. It was lovely. But after seeing the destruction from the hurricane hitting the barrier islands near Fort Myers this fall, I would never ever buy something on a barrier island or even right on the water. I don't think those homes would survive a direct hit.

I think most of the population doesn't understand what is happening, and how quickly the situation is changing for many aspects of climate change. They also can't imagine a world where the government can't help. Like the people who built in AZ without securing their water. They also put their faith in the government in that they thought the government should be able to produce water for them.

But... buying a house where the ocean is literally outside your back door should give you pause. The couple that bought their house after visiting for decades has literally been able to see the ocean creep up to the house, and yet still bought. That is a lot of effort to literally bury your head in the sand.

[dancingirl21]

DH’s family has traveled to Ocean Isle Beach in NC for the past 35 years. There’s a home at the far end of the west side that is falling into the ocean. We go every 2 years or so now and it’s wild to see the changes in the past decade. They keep putting sandbags around it, but it’s moving. I would never buy a beach house. The way our climate is now, I can’t imagine many will make it long term.

[moreace01]

Maybe I don't understand enough about living on the ocean, but it seems to me that living anywhere that the topography can be changed due to the water/erosion seems like a bad idea. That's even without factoring in climate change and hurricanes.

My family has lived very close to Lake Michigan my entire lifetime. And when I say close to the lake, I actually mean we live across the street from the houses that are on the lake. We live on a ravine with a small creek that empties into the lake. The ravine also has issues with erosion - we've lost a good 50 feet of land off the back of the house and now the house is very close to falling in.

The topography of the beach has changed dramatically over the decades. I have pictures that date back to the 1940's. Even from year to year - the beach can be larger or smaller and the creek can change course where it empties into the lake. The houses on the lake side spend tens of thousands of dollars - if not more - shoring up the hillside so they don't fall into the lake. Again, this is PRIOR to climate change and this is Lake Michigan, not the ocean. 

Anyway, that's long and rambling but I guess my point is - if you buy property on a large body of water and DON'T expect that there will be issues...I really don't know what you are thinking.

[karinothing]

I thought I replied but guess I didn't.

Anyway, we go to the OBX every summer. I would be shocked if these folks don't realize when they buy houses, but maybe that is the difference between my brain and a denier that I will never understand. We go every year and its pretty clear that things are precarious. I was shocked at home much the beach has changed just in the last decade or so we have been going. Especially when I went to CA and saw the size of the beach there compared to NC.

[pixy0stix]

Added another layer with the This American Life episodes with what's happening in CA. Links in OP.

[icedcoffee]

We bought a "beach" house last year. I use quotes because it's 5 miles from the ocean. We got a lot of flack from people about how it's dumb to buy so far from the ocean, but we love the beach and wanted a way to be there more often. We joke that someday it might be beach front property, but I'm not totally kidding. At 5 miles hopefully it's not in my lifetime though.

They're still rebuilding the beach from storms in the fall.

Making a house on the water a retirement plan is dumb as shit. Beyond just the fact that your house could fall in; houses on the water are a lot to maintain. Even at 5 miles away missing shingles and shit are a yearly thing.

Anyway--TLDR: These people are dumb.

[icedcoffee]

And these people absolutely got disclosures. I mean...we bought outside of a flood zone on purpose. This listings for houses in flood zones were very clear that they were in flood zones.

[cattledogkisses]

Building by the water will always be a gamble, even taking out the climate change aspect.

There's a beautiful, big sandy beach here that I grew up going to as a kid. In the early 2000s a nearby river shifted course, and over the following years the beach completely eroded away until there was nothing left. Recently the river shifted course again, and now the beach is slowly coming back. It's sort of a natural geological circle of life, but it's not really a highly predictable thing.

[goldengirlz]

I definitely want to listen to the episode on Pacifica!

It’s expensive in the way that all of the Bay Area area is expensive, but it’s not considered a haven for the wealthy or anything; it’s very economically diverse. It’s an everyday bedroom community that happens to be on the ocean.

[pixy0stix]

I just finished the This American Life episode, and it's so good in that it touches on people's disbelief, not wanting to move and protect property values by not having areas designated as "in danger" (which touches on why this information may not be in disclosures), how the real estate industry jumps in and pumps money into local elections to elect people that won't implement climate change scenarios, etc. Although, the one real estate agent that was interviewed did say "there isn't enough money for the government to bail out everyone that will need to be relocated" and she's right. Especially since people won't move until things are too far gone.

[livinitup]

20 years ago, my ILs bought a lovely condo in Florida and have enjoyed it immensely. My H was told that he would inherit it (hopefully some day in the far future) and was shocked when I said we would immediately sell it. He thought WE would retire in it some day!

[ssmjlm]

I am caveating my response by saying my parents are homeowners in the OBX in Duck and we are not on the ocean and are in fact, on a hill/dune in our neighborhood.

Rodanthe and other parts of beach drive are not new to houses washing out to sea. So I cannot muster up any sympathy for these people. Dare county has been troubled and problematic for decades because they want the development and rental income. The microhotel battle is on-going.

Several years ago they did a huge beach replenishment from Duck to Nags Head. It's gone. They are working on it again, but are way behind. It costs owners a lot of money, esp if you're on the beach.

Personally, I would be fine if the homes were gone and they just rebuilt the dunes.

[icedcoffee]

Mar 13, 2023 13:53:04 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

Personally, I would be fine if the homes were gone and they just rebuilt the dunes.

And add parking so you can enjoy the beach without needing to be a millionaire homeowner.  I hate how we've allowed so much of the beach to be bought up and inaccessible to regular people.  More state parks!!!

[mrsukyankee]

Same here: link

Two more homes close to the cliff edge in Norfolk have been demolished amid fears they would fall into the sea.

Residents left their chalets in The Marrams in Hemsby on Friday after the sandy cliffs beneath them eroded.

Some of the properties were within 1m (3.2ft) of the cliff edge.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 13, 2023 14:52:15 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

Same here: link

Two more homes close to the cliff edge in Norfolk have been demolished amid fears they would fall into the sea.

Residents left their chalets in The Marrams in Hemsby on Friday after the sandy cliffs beneath them eroded.

Some of the properties were within 1m (3.2ft) of the cliff edge.

I can't even begin to think about the scope of this worldwide.

ETA: But kinda the same situation - of the three homeowners, one has owned for 3 years, and another 4. They shouldn't have bought there in the first place.

[cattledogkisses]

Coastlines are dynamic environments that are always going to be in a state of flux due to natural geologic and weather processes. Anyone building on a coastline and expecting it to remain unchanged is not living in reality.

Some places are just not meant to be built on (see also, the people trying to build in Arizona with no water). How you enforce that, I'm not sure. And even halting new construction doesn't solve the problem of already existing communities.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 13, 2023 15:02:31 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

Coastlines are dynamic environments that are always going to be in a state of flux due to natural geologic and weather processes. Anyone building on a coastline and expecting it to remain unchanged is not living in reality.

Ok, so this and the comment upthread hit on the point that coastlines change all the time. And they do, but right now what we're seeing is unprecedented (even though we're all slap happy at the use of that word). Nothing we know, even how coastlines change, is relevant at this point, because things used to flex, but then return to "normal". There's no normal anymore, just constant change. Even how people think things are going to change is changing.

[msmerymac]

Mar 13, 2023 11:47:55 GMT -5 moreace01 said:

Maybe I don't understand enough about living on the ocean, but it seems to me that living anywhere that the topography can be changed due to the water/erosion seems like a bad idea. That's even without factoring in climate change and hurricanes.

My family has lived very close to Lake Michigan my entire lifetime. And when I say close to the lake, I actually mean we live across the street from the houses that are on the lake. We live on a ravine with a small creek that empties into the lake. The ravine also has issues with erosion - we've lost a good 50 feet of land off the back of the house and now the house is very close to falling in.

The topography of the beach has changed dramatically over the decades. I have pictures that date back to the 1940's. Even from year to year - the beach can be larger or smaller and the creek can change course where it empties into the lake. The houses on the lake side spend tens of thousands of dollars - if not more - shoring up the hillside so they don't fall into the lake. Again, this is PRIOR to climate change and this is Lake Michigan, not the ocean. 

Anyway, that's long and rambling but I guess my point is - if you buy property on a large body of water and DON'T expect that there will be issues...I really don't know what you are thinking.

My family has had property on Lake Ontario for almost 90 years. It's on the third house - not because of climate, just wanting to upgrade. When my dad rebuilt last year he also built the foundation up another 18 inches. He redid his seawall a few years ago. 

Some of his neighbors a few houses away basically lost their house in 2017 due to the issues with the new board that controls the water level on the lake, which kept it high that year to try to prevent flooding in Montreal. It was a mess. 

[carmenere]

It’s not just coastal areas that have this problem. In the St. Louis area where my family lives there is a ton of new-ish development in the flood plains along the rivers that flooded badly over summer. As the climate changes it’s only going to get more severe and less predictable. ETA: I do feel a lot more sympathy for the folks in that situation who owned regular homes and businesses and the risk wasn’t as obvious.

[rubytue]

My family lake house is on a TVA managed lake. You are not allowed to build below the full pool line of elevation. Maybe 2 or 3 times in the past 10 years, it has gotten to full pool, which floods out the normal access road and you have to drive this long, gravel road to get in. This has always seemed like a “safe” house, but sometimes I wonder. Although, I guess it’s probably more likely that someday TVA will have to do something about their damns and we’d lose the lake (it’s on a back cove that would not have water if the lake wasn’t damned). Hmmm. Guess I should be looking at the 30-year plan if I think I’ll retire there. Then again, it’s TN and who knows if I will want to move back there.

Plus, it has a bunch of other environmental issues. Just down from the coal plant that spilled all its fly ash 15 years ago. wpln.org/post/tennessee-residents-are-tired-of-coal-ash-pollution-tdec-could-help/