I'm struggling with how to handle this at times. I have two SDs, one is 21 and lives in an apartment 10 minutes away with her boyfriend. She is a full time student and works part time. He graduated and works full time at an accounting firm. We do not pay anything for her, she is on her mom's phone plan but pays her monthly for it.
SD2 is 20, she moved in with us after graduation, decided college was not for her. She works part time at a smoothie place, and is also in training with the fire department (which she is paid for). She is on our phone plan and we've talked about her paying for it, but it's just kind of fallen by the wayside. She pays for her car insurance.
DS is 10 years old.
So my issue is when it comes to vacations and tickets to events, I'm not sure how to handle it. H says they are grown and work full time so they can pay if they want to do these things. But I feel conflicted. On the one hand I feel like it should be fair and we should pay for all three. But then I think...well by the time DS is grown they will be almost 30, so do I pay for them until they are 30?
When we went to Disney we got a rental house, car, and food so they had to pay for plane tickets, and park tickets. A few months after this agreement I asked if they would rather me pay $400 towards that for their birthday gifts and they said yes so they went to Disney for a week for about $500 each, not including whatever they wanted to buy at the parks.
I'm getting tickets to see the Lion King soon and H said to just get tickets for the three of us, but I feel guilty. But then its a big price difference between 3 tickets and 5 tickets.
So does anyone else have a big age gap like this, and how do you handle these sort of things?
Post by wanderingback on Mar 15, 2023 16:04:32 GMT -5
Are you financially able to pay for these things?
I’m damn near 40 years old and both my parents (divorced) still occasionally buy me things Like you mention (show tickets, etc). It’s been a few years since I’ve gone on vacation with my dad but my mom and I did a long weekend together and we had separate rooms so paid individually but most meals she paid for.
If I can financially afford it I assume I’ll pay for occasional treats for my daughter until I’m dead unless she’s literally a millionaire and would do the same if I had multiple kids.
This is tough since your H wants them to pay their own way, but my feeling is if you want them to come and can afford it, I’d at least invite them. Or you could tell them you’ll go halfsies.
With that being said, when I was a kid, even through HS, my parents didn’t have a lot of money so we didn’t do much of anything. When my sister who is 10 yrs younger was in HS they started to get into a better position and did more for her. I don’t resent that change at all.
Post by sunshineluv on Mar 15, 2023 16:09:01 GMT -5
I think it depends on your financial situation. If I am able I will pay for my kids tickets and travel with me until they are in a better financial spot than I am. That will be due to the joy they will bring me at the events versus being fair. You don’t have to pay for anything for them, but if my stepmom called and said want to go to lion king it will be $200 when I was 21, that would be an easy no for me.
Post by jennistarr1 on Mar 15, 2023 16:09:08 GMT -5
So I would assume when DS is 20, he can still live at home, be on your phone plan but pay you for it, go on vacations with you and have to pay for this but not that. Essentially, trying to remember to do the same things when he is their age is what's fair. you won't remember it all, and things will be different entirely. Like when he's 20, you might not be doing family vacations anymore. Maybe there is grandchildren.
Are the older kids as interested in the lion King? I feel like that is a cusp activity. Some things are obviously intended for kids, and you wouldn't worry about whether to include them. Other things like a family vacation, are appealing to all. Lion King tickets feel like they could go either way. IF they are expected to attend, then I'd pay their tickets.
So much of this, to me, is whether you can afford to pay or not. If it's a stretch and affects your budget, then yes- they should pay. You should not go into financial hardship just to try and be "fair".
But if you can afford to pay to some degree, I can see both sides -
On one hand, college age/ early 20s is usually tight when it comes to $$. Both DH and I had parents who continued to help us out during that time. Not supporting us, but paying for dinners out, paying for plane tickets, etc. Quite honestly- there is stuff we would NOT have been able to do if it weren't for their help. I expect we'll help our son during that age range too.
But on the other, there IS a difference between a 10 year old and kids in their 20s. On many levels. At 10, you still HAVE to take care of all that. I don't think that means you have to be "equal" with the other kids.
So, again, what can you AFFORD to do? If you can afford to pay for them to some degree, I'd figure out what that is and set parameters.
Both DH and I GREATLY appreciate our parents helping us out. And now we try to "pay it back" as much as we can.
I could afford it but it would make things tighter.
And I guess it's also the thing of, if I offer free things they would probably go to anything. Is it something they are into and would go if it wasn't free? Probably not.
I'm trying to go back to Disney in 2024. SD2 was like "I'd like to go but I don't want to spend that much so I probably won't" and I'm kind of thinking... Dude it was a week long Disney trip for $500 for you and you have no bills? Then I heard her talking to a friend about how they should try to get Coachella tickets and travel across the country for that and I don't know how I feel about doubling the cost of a trip and creating a bunch of logistics issues for myself to bring someone who is meh about it? Like we can't stay in a hotel if she comes, because she and DS can't share a bed, so now we have to rent a house and then we have to get a rental car to get to the park so do I go through all that for a lukewarm reaction when 2 days later she and her friend are literally screaming about spending all that money to go to Coachella? No idea if she's going through with that plan but it's just creating a lot of conflict for me. H has no conflict, he says they're adults and they can pay for things they want to do, it's just me that's conflicted.
We are not well off, H was unemployed for 2 years during Covid and his job now is a pay cut from before Covid but I managed to finish paying off our cc debt and my car while the mortgage was in forbearance during the Covid/unemployment period so we've been able to do a little extra since then. We are NOT ML rich, it's a squeeze to do these things.
Post by fivechickens on Mar 15, 2023 16:20:53 GMT -5
I am with wanderingback. If you can afford and are comfortable with it I don’t see anything wrong with what your paying as far as the entertainment. I would probably not continue to pay for SD2 phone but the trips and play seem reasonable mom/dad purchases for any age kids.
My aunt paid for us to go to Disney World twice. It was really for my kids (who she is like a grandma too) but H & I benefited from it. We offered to pay our way or help out but she refused.
I plan to do the same for my kids as long as I can financially afford it.
Post by lemoncupcake on Mar 15, 2023 16:22:57 GMT -5
It seems bizarre for him to assume that a 20 year old with a job can afford luxuries like vacations and events the same way that older, established dual income couples can. Do you think he actually wants them to come on vacation or to events with you? If he really wants them there then you should be offering to help with the costs (and/or planning more affordable options so that you can help more).
CurlyQ284 with your update, I think I probably side more with your DH. If he says they can pay, then let them pay. If something comes along that you REALLY want everyone to go to, OR you know they really do want to go to but can afford it, save your $$ towards that. But for stuff that isn't a big deal/ they are lukewarm on - don't worry about paying for them.
The idea of making my 20-year old kid pay their own way is just so foreign to my family culture.
I’m almost 40, own a house, have two kids, H and I are both gainfully employed, and my parents insist on paying for our family whenever we do things together. When my grandparents were still alive, they always paid. I once tried to pick up the check for lunch and my dad was offended. I fully intend to pay the way for my kids when they do things like OP described with us until I die, barring some unforeseen dire financial circumstances.
ETA: seeing the update, if it’s not financially comfortable to pay for all your kids to come, I’d choose another group activity.
As far as the Lion King goes they would probably not go even if it's a free ticket, I'm just thinking in a general sense because this is going to come up again and again until DS is grown and I'm getting anxiety with every time lol.
I think part of it is also the financial difference. H and exW were 22 and 20 when the girls were born, they were broke, divorced when they were super young. ExW has always been broke so they didn't do a lot of these things with her. When they were with us we did some stuff, but we had a downturn with the 2008 recession, and then again with Covid. Plus the years when DS was in daycare so things were tight then for us but we did so some trips (including a Disney trip) when they were younger. I do *hope* we are done with financial hardship going forward so things will get a little bit easier to do extras over the next 10 years. Please for the love of God, no more job loss in my house, I can't take another one lol.
I think for something like a Disney trip-- if the girls aren't excited about to go AND you just took them at a steep discount, I would plan the trip without them and have no guilt about it. It's kind of kid-focused trip and in my early 20s I would not have been interested in going twice within a couple years.
For something like Lion King, I would probably offer to pay for their ticket if they wanted to go, as long as it was in my budget.
I think it's OK to work out the details on a case by case basis. I'm sure they are also aware that their dad was laid off for 2 years recently so I'm sure that they will understand if you can't cover everything for them even if you wish you could.
It seems bizarre for him to assume that a 20 year old with a job can afford luxuries like vacations and events the same way that older, established dual income couples can. Do you think he actually wants them to come on vacation or to events with you? If he really wants them there then you should be offering to help with the costs (and/or planning more affordable options so that you can help more).
SD2 has just gone for the weekend to Chicago for a concert. She blows her money on this sort of thing...kind of often. She's talking about going to Coachella. So I think he figured if she is willing to blow all her money on going to Coachella, that's her choice and she could choose to spend that money on going somewhere else.
SD1 and her boyfriend plan a few trips per year to Florida for beach trips (we are in Michigan) so they do plan trips on their own.
Maybe it's something like - Hey SDs, we are planning to take DS to the Lion King (or to Disney again, or what have you). If you'd like to go with us, we are happy to pay half your way, and we'll need you to pay your half upfront.
The idea of making my 20-year old kid pay their own way is just so foreign to my family culture.
I’m almost 40, own a house, have two kids, H and I are both gainfully employed, and my parents insist on paying for our family whenever we do things together. When my grandparents were still alive, they always paid. I once tried to pick up the check for lunch and my dad was offended. I fully intend to pay the way for my kids when they do things like OP described with us until I die, barring some unforeseen dire financial circumstances.
Now that you say this, this is probably the disconnect. H grew up really poor, and then on his own after 16. His family does not just pay for everyone.
My family was kind of like how you described although I do struggle more financially than my parents (recession and Covid job losses and recovery from both). So I guess that's why my H and I have different perspectives on this.
Post by cricketwife on Mar 15, 2023 16:33:35 GMT -5
I agree with others that it depends on what you can afford. I also think it depends on what you want. I mean,, if you want them to come on the family vacation, you should pay for it. My family didn’t have tons of means and we didn’t vacation, but at 20 and 21, I was saving all my money for my own goals. I would not have parted with $500 to go to Disney with the family (or anyone—Disney wasn’t my thing.) but if it was free and my family wanted me to go, I would have.. assuming it didn’t impact school or whatever. I think it’s ok to oay for some things for them (like vacations’ but not other things, like Lion King tickets.
I agree with PP that it’s complicated by the fact that your H is their natural parent and he has a different opinion than you do.
I think I’d worry less about event tickets and more about teaching the 20 yo financial responsibilities in general. I think she should be paying for her phone plan. If she doesn’t, she gets removed from the plan. I’d also talk about a timeline for when she should be contributing to household expenses. It can be whatever you want- maybe at 22 , she starts paying rent, but stays for free until then. Or maybe she pays a portion of utilities starting now, or whatever. I would just encourage her to have of skin in the game, even if it’s way less money than these things actually cost since it sounds like she working toward a goal.
It seems bizarre for him to assume that a 20 year old with a job can afford luxuries like vacations and events the same way that older, established dual income couples can. Do you think he actually wants them to come on vacation or to events with you? If he really wants them there then you should be offering to help with the costs (and/or planning more affordable options so that you can help more).
SD2 has just gone for the weekend to Chicago for a concert. She blows her money on this sort of thing...kind of often. She's talking about going to Coachella. So I think he figured if she is willing to blow all her money on going to Coachella, that's her choice and she could choose to spend that money on going somewhere else.
While this is true to an extent, I'm not surprised that a 20 year old would want to save her limited money for age appropriate trips with her friends. Sure she could afford Disney if she turned down Coachella, but Coachella is probably a higher priority. That may not mean she isn't interested in a family vacation too - I don't think not wanting to spend her money on that means she doesn't care or would enjoy the family time too.
My parents paid for any family vacations until recently, and even then they usually contribute something. Our upcoming trip with them to Turkey is the first time we have ever all completely paid our own way.
Eta: actually the last part isn't completely true... We have at least paid our own airfare and sometimes for food for at least the last 10 years (which feels recent but upon reflection isn't, lol) They usually have covered the lodging and sometimes cover most of the food. I do not come from a family that was taking a lot of big trips when we were young though. Like Disney at 20 wasn't even on the table so idk if it's truly comparable.
It seems bizarre for him to assume that a 20 year old with a job can afford luxuries like vacations and events the same way that older, established dual income couples can. Do you think he actually wants them to come on vacation or to events with you? If he really wants them there then you should be offering to help with the costs (and/or planning more affordable options so that you can help more).
SD2 has just gone for the weekend to Chicago for a concert. She blows her money on this sort of thing...kind of often. She's talking about going to Coachella. So I think he figured if she is willing to blow all her money on going to Coachella, that's her choice and she could choose to spend that money on going somewhere else.
Eh.... yes and no. She's 20. This is what 20 year olds do! Of COURSE a 20 year old would rather spend their money on going to Coachella than going to Disney!
But that being said - if your H doesn't care if she comes to Disney, then so be it. She won't come. She spent her money. But if he DOES want her to come, that's on HIM then.
FIL wanted to do a big family trip a number of years ago. We didn't really WANT to (long story as to why), but in the end, we "gave in" and went to Disney with him and MIL. DS was about 5 at the time- perfect age. But FIL paid for pretty much everything. We didn't really want to go to Disney, we didn't really want to do a week long trip with him. So - we weren't going to fork over a lot of $$ for it. If he didn't pay for it, the trip woudln't have happened.
Which is what this really boils down to- what you all WANT vs what your SDs want. At the age they are at, there is going to be a conflict. I think some of your H's expectations are a bit unrealistic
I think there are times you can offer to pay 1/2 or something.
How do they seem? meaning, do they seem to expect that they will go to events or trips completely paid for? I would almost think that perhaps they understand financial strain and that you guys will not always be able to treat the entire family, but you will when you can and when them being there is a priority for you.
Post by expectantsteelerfan on Mar 15, 2023 16:39:01 GMT -5
I think it's ok to gauge both your/dh's and their interest in things and then decide if you want to offer to pay. If you decide it's an important whole family event, then maybe you pay for everyone for that event. If it's not, then you don't. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. And it's also ok to talk to them about this and be upfront about it. Like hey, if you guys hear that we are doing something and you really want to be a part of it but can't swing it, let us know and maybe we can make it a family thing and we'll cover you, but we can't afford it for every event now that you are grown, so if it's something you aren't really interested it, we don't mind if you have other stuff going on. We can't afford to make every little thing a big family event now that you're adults, just like we get that you can't afford to come to every event your little brother is interested in, and that's ok.
As someone with a very kind stepmom, I also think you are being very kind:) I don’t think you should do things for them that really crunch your budget. It’s nice to offer something once in a while, though, as you can! I don’t think a lot of young adults appreciate how much most parents sacrifice for them.
Ok douche, go ahead and call it mud. My husband DID have halitosis. We addressed it after I talked to you girls on here and guess what? Years later, no problem. Mofongo, you're a cunt. Eat shit. ~anonnamus
Post by coltsfan85 on Mar 15, 2023 16:48:15 GMT -5
I kinda split things with my parents now as an adult, but generally for vacations or shows we’re seeing together, they would pay unless it was a gift from me.
I think that if you expect the adult child to pay, you’ve got to make that expectation clear from the get go and be okay if they are unable to come due to financial or personal circumstances.
I’m sure my family paying our way is because my parents want us to do things together more than they want to do the event itself.
If your H decides he doesn’t want to pay for the adult kids, and they decide to spend their funds on something else rather than joining you and paying their own way, it wouldn’t be fair for you/H to judge those decisions. They’re allowed to make different value decisions with their own funds. If it’s really important to you/H that the family be together, then I do think it’s fair to either offer to pay or include the adult kids in the planning so they have a say in what activities they want to or are able to pay for.
I guess I should also add, we do go out to dinner sometimes and pay for everyone (including SD1s boyfriend). There have been times where H gets tickets to a sports event and he asks SDs if they want to go before asking DS. So we do pay for things like that sometimes already.
I think there are times you can offer to pay 1/2 or something.
How do they seem? meaning, do they seem to expect that they will go to events or trips completely paid for? I would almost think that perhaps they understand financial strain and that you guys will not always be able to treat the entire family, but you will when you can and when them being there is a priority for you.
No they don't expect it. All of this is created by my own guilt lol.
For Disney they had completely different perspectives. SD1 told me thank you for doing all this and that they were lucky to do Disney for a full week for only $500. She bought me Disney ears as a thank you and gave them to me the day we flew out.
SD2 was like, man that was a lot of money. But she is bad with money in general, didn't start setting money aside as early as SD1 so she paid the $500 in like 2 months instead of 7 months like SD1 did.
Post by wanderingback on Mar 15, 2023 17:20:42 GMT -5
With your updates and to answer your specific question of "But then I think...well by the time DS is grown they will be almost 30, so do I pay for them until they are 30?" - if it’s going to be a financial strain then you can decide on a case by case basis and yes I think it’s appropriate to treat your kids to things even when they are no longer kids anymore even if they’re 40+ years old.
I also think it’s totally appropriate for young adults and even adults to say yes to things with their parents that they wouldn’t necessarily pick to do on their own. I don’t think that should dictate when you pay for, again assuming you can pay (all or some of the time).
Post by Jalapeñomel on Mar 15, 2023 17:21:43 GMT -5
My parents pay for everything if we let them, and I’m 44.
I’m in the mindset that if you can and are willing to pay, it’s a nice gesture. If you can’t or don’t want to, that’s also your prerogative.
I guess you also have to decide that if you want a family vacation, and they can’t afford it, are you willing to pay or willing to sacrifice that time with your older kids if they can’t come?