Tree ideas

[Wallflower]

Hi folks - In a heavy, wet snow last week, I lost a tree in my front yard. It was at the center of a garden filled with shade plants and I will be replacing it. The tree itself was something I'd wanted to replace for a while, so this gives me the opportunity. It was a hawthorn and boy did it live up to the "thorn" part of that name! Over the years, I've lost two pairs of shoes by stepping on a thorn. 

I'm looking for something that won't get huge (30 ft? I have a hard time estimating), but tall enough that the branches arc over the sidewalk to my front door (with pruning expected). I love birds so getting something with a fruit is a plus.

I'm thinking of getting a Korean dogwood, but I'm also open to other suggestions?

[Susie]

What zone?  And are you sure about fruiting?

We just had two Bradford pears cut down from our front yard.  I already disliked them for a variety of reasons, and they were among the only bradford pears on our street that seemed to survive the heavy snow the first weekend of March.  Their days were numbered, so it was somewhat prophylactic.  They would eventually split, and could cause damage then.  But anyway, I also hated that they bore fruit.  One was right by the driveway and dropped fruits in the fall in the driveway and cars.  In that season, the cars were always a mess, and the kids were always tracking smushed fruits in on their shoes.  They also drew deer, who came for the fruits and stayed for everything else around.

I'm planning to replace one with some sort of weeping conifer, and the other (by the driveway) I may not replace at all.  I'm not sure.

We also have a weeping cherry in the corner by the light post, between the front walk and the driveway.  It has outgrown its spot and IDK what we're going to do with it.  I hate to cut to down, but it's no longer the right size for the space, and it sustained damage from being girdled by landscape plastic at the base of the trunk.  Half the front walk is unusable because the branches hang down and smack you in the face.  I already removed the plastic and stones from the bed and mulched, and I'm going to prune it this spring as a band-aid for now.  But as it grows, it's going to be hard to prune so that it doesn't end up lopsided.  It has also engulfed the light post.

All these trees I'm estimating were planted in the 1990s, since the house was built in 1994.  We just moved here in 2021, so we're working with what was here.

[Wallflower]

I'm in zone 5b.

The hawthorn had some small berries, which is what I'm picturing. The robins and a few other birds showed up when the berries were ripe and they were gone within a week, so I never had an issue with dropped berries. As for deer, I already get them. A tree with or without berries isn't going to change that.

Good luck with your trees!

[InBetweenDays]

We have Kousa dogwood trees as our street trees (assuming these are the same as Korean dogwoods) and I despise them. They are late to bloom in the spring, don't do anything exciting in the fall, and just tend to look kind of tired and dried out most of the summer. We inherited these trees when we bought the house so they may not have been taken care of early on, but we've been here 13 years, have had them pruned and cared for, and they still don't look good.

But probably the thing i hate the most are the berries. They have these big red berries that drop everywhere. Too many to try and pickup so they land on and get crushed into the sidewalk. Or dropped onto our cars. If this was just going to be over your yard/garden i think it would be ok. But if it will be near your sidewalk and front door I'd consider a different tree.

On the other side of our house we have a Star Magnolia that I LOVE. Beautiful flowers in the spring and it stays rather small (i think 20').

Tagging treedimensional because I'm sure she'll have some good insight and recommendations.

[Susie]

I am also in 5b; one tree I've considered is a (male) ginkgo.  The form is much taller than it is wide, it would do well in this zone, and from what I've read, tolerates clay soil and deer, both of which I have.  It would eventually grow to be a large tree though, if you're thinking about it in a bed.  

As I said though, I have zero interest in the mess of (non-edible) fruiting trees.  I have a number of bird feeders hanging from red maples in the backyard and the weeping cherry in the front yard.  They can also go on posts/etc.

[mrsukyankee]

What about a dogwood tree?

[nicolewi]

Some kind of flowering crab for sure could work. There are tons of different varieties with different fruit, blossoms, and varying tolerance to disease.

[icedcoffee]

Ditto Susie. Fruit trees are such a PITA. We tore down a pear tree because the deer would stand there like it was a 24 hour buffet and the poop they left behind could fill a garbage bag weekly. It was disgusting. And the pears were only ok. So not worth it!

[icedcoffee]

We have a dogwood and it’s pretty but the berries do get annoying. Not terrible though. My dog enjoys them. 😂

I struggle to grow grass under it if that’s a concern for you.

My kid calls it his tree house and sits between the limbs. So he likes it too.

[scm1011]

Mar 21, 2023 17:20:17 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Ditto Susie . Fruit trees are such a PITA. We tore down a pear tree because the deer would stand there like it was a 24 hour buffet and the poop they left behind could fill a garbage bag weekly. It was disgusting. And the pears were only ok. So not worth it!

Ditto this. We have a nearby friend that has a peach tree and it draws rats. They had to clean up the fallen peaches daily to avoid. 
We had a mulberry tree at our old house and I'd avoid that. Every June it would shed its mulberries and our yard would look like a murder scene from the kids trampling on them. It also ruined their shoes. 

[Wallflower]

Thanks, folks. I'm definitely rethinking the fruit-bearing trees. I guess I was spoiled by the hawthorn - those berries were so small and they didn't drop. Well, they either didn't drop or they were eaten so fast it was the same result.

Getting just the right size, shape, and visual interest is such a challenge!!

[mrsukyankee]

Just thought of another tree that I love that doesn't get super tall - Japanese Maple. It's so pretty!

[Wallflower]

Mar 22, 2023 10:41:35 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

Just thought of another tree that I love that doesn't get super tall - Japanese Maple. It's so pretty!

I have one and love it, but I think I'm losing it, sadly. Partly because it doesn't get enough sun but also in the same storm that took out the hawthorn, I lost a huge branch off the maple. It was a rough storm.

As for where the hawthorn stood, I think it has less sun than a Japanese maple would need.

[Wallflower]

This was a couple of years ago, but to show you the space I'm talking about ...
 

[orval]

How about a redbud? www.arborday.org/trees/treeguide/TreeDetail.cfm?ItemID=912

Another one we plant with our tree program is the Yoshino Cherry.   shop.arborday.org/yoshino-cherry

I do also like magnolias. There are some small or dwarf varieties.

[simpsongal]

Japanese snowbells are beautiful, as are lilac trees (not the bushes). I have a japanese stewartia too - it's more vase shaped though, but the bark is pretty for winter interest. There are sooooo many different kids of Japanese maples. I have like 10? All very different in size, color, shape, spread, etc.

[nicolewi]

I'm also 5B, and I have looked into planting redbud, magnolias, and Japanese maples! As you may know, there aren't a lot of varieties that are hardy to our zone. So you might be able to plant them, but you are very limited in which are likely to survive long-term.

I still think my flowering crab idea could be great for you. They come in many sizes, forms, different blossoms, different berries. In our yard, we have a dwarf "lollipop" style with yellow berries, one with full blossoms that look like mini roses but no fruit, and one with purple foliage and red berries. Another idea I have looked at and that might work for you would be serviceberry, if you do the tree form!

[momin2013]

Seeing your picture, I think a magnolia would look great there.

[treedimensional]

Mar 20, 2023 7:03:45 GMT -5 Wallflower said:

Hi folks - In a heavy, wet snow last week, I lost a tree in my front yard. It was at the center of a garden filled with shade plants and I will be replacing it. The tree itself was something I'd wanted to replace for a while, so this gives me the opportunity. It was a hawthorn and boy did it live up to the "thorn" part of that name! Over the years, I've lost two pairs of shoes by stepping on a thorn. 

I'm looking for something that won't get huge (30 ft? I have a hard time estimating), but tall enough that the branches arc over the sidewalk to my front door (with pruning expected). I love birds so getting something with a fruit is a plus.

I'm thinking of getting a Korean dogwood, but I'm also open to other suggestions?

I don't know what zone you're in, but in the intermediate height range (30-50'), google these ones:
Halesia (Silverbell), Syringa reticulata, Cladrastis kentukia, Parrotia persica, and Magnolia acuminata. These are all winter hardy to zone 4, and they are tough trees that we use as street trees here, when we don't have room for bigger trees.
The most important things you can do to create bird habitat is plant a lot of plants, and a diverse variety of plants (of many species and sizes), and reduce lawn size, and avoid using fertilizers and insecticides.

[stemmie]

Thanks for those suggestions treedimensional,

I am taking my mom out to shop for a new tree on Wednesday. She lives in a 55+ community where the builder went crazy with Bradford pears-- most of the tiny postcard sized lots have at least 2. I think I convinced her to remove the one she has in addition to the Korean dogwood we took out last year. (I don't care for them particularly-- both hers and my neighbors have died in the last 2 years)

She really wants a magnolia but I'm thinking a smaller maple to replace the side tree and mag to replace the Bradford taking up the center of the yard.

Wallflower, another plant to consider is serviceberry.

[treedimensional]

Apr 3, 2023 9:43:44 GMT -5 stemmie said:

Thanks for those suggestions treedimensional ,

I am taking my mom out to shop for a new tree on Wednesday. She lives in a 55+ community where the builder went crazy with Bradford pears-- most of the tiny postcard sized lots have at least 2. I think I convinced her to remove the one she has in addition to the Korean dogwood we took out last year. (I don't care for them particularly-- both hers and my neighbors have died in the last 2 years)

She really wants a magnolia but I'm thinking a smaller maple to replace the side tree and mag to replace the Bradford taking up the center of the yard.

Wallflower , another plant to consider is serviceberry.

What? Why? I really love Magnolias. Magnolia is a very diverse genus; they range from major (60') to minor (6') and are very urban tolerant, tough trees. I've planted dozens as street trees here are they've had an extremely low mortality rate. Personally, I would not choose a maple over a magnolia, due to the structural deficits of maple... pruning them is a full-time, never-ending job for me. Not being snarky, but I am curious your reasoning for this preference.

[stemmie]

Apr 3, 2023 16:54:21 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

Apr 3, 2023 9:43:44 GMT -5 stemmie said:

Thanks for those suggestions treedimensional ,

I am taking my mom out to shop for a new tree on Wednesday. She lives in a 55+ community where the builder went crazy with Bradford pears-- most of the tiny postcard sized lots have at least 2. I think I convinced her to remove the one she has in addition to the Korean dogwood we took out last year. (I don't care for them particularly-- both hers and my neighbors have died in the last 2 years)

She really wants a magnolia but I'm thinking a smaller maple to replace the side tree and mag to replace the Bradford taking up the center of the yard.

Wallflower , another plant to consider is serviceberry.

What? Why? I really love Magnolias. Magnolia is a very diverse genus; they range from major (60') to minor (6') and are very urban tolerant, tough trees. I've planted dozens as street trees here are they've had an extremely low mortality rate. Personally, I would not choose a maple over a magnolia, due to the structural deficits of maple... pruning them is a full-time, never-ending job for me. Not being snarky, but I am curious your reasoning for this preference.

I wasn't very clear. I love magnolias, too. My old house had a "Little Gem"  which was gorgeous. It's colder and windier where I live now, so I have a "Jane" variety. I planted it to obscure my view of the neighbor's kids' cars while I eat dinner. It's done freakishly well. 

She's leaning towards keeping the dreadful Bradford and planting a smaller magnolia at the outside corner of her twin in the bed with the foundation garden. It would be pretty, but she wouldn't see it from inside the house. What I'd like her to do is to plant a non-specimen tree at the corner to anchor the foundation bed and plant the smaller magnolia where the Bradford pear is now. Her front breakfast room window overlooks the Bradford now, so she'd be able to see the magnolia from where she spends a lot of her time. 

This is a picture of the foundation bed from 2 years ago to give a sense of how small the space we're working in. That's the offending Bradford in the middle. 

Do you have any suggestions for a magnolia or other tree?

[treedimensional]

Apr 3, 2023 18:03:02 GMT -5 stemmie said:

Apr 3, 2023 16:54:21 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

What? Why? I really love Magnolias. Magnolia is a very diverse genus; they range from major (60') to minor (6') and are very urban tolerant, tough trees. I've planted dozens as street trees here are they've had an extremely low mortality rate. Personally, I would not choose a maple over a magnolia, due to the structural deficits of maple... pruning them is a full-time, never-ending job for me. Not being snarky, but I am curious your reasoning for this preference.

I wasn't very clear. I love magnolias, too. My old house had a "Little Gem"  which was gorgeous. It's colder and windier where I live now, so I have a "Jane" variety. I planted it to obscure my view of the neighbor's kids' cars while I eat dinner. It's done freakishly well. 

She's leaning towards keeping the dreadful Bradford and planting a smaller magnolia at the outside corner of her twin in the bed with the foundation garden. It would be pretty, but she wouldn't see it from inside the house. What I'd like her to do is to plant a non-specimen tree at the corner to anchor the foundation bed and plant the smaller magnolia where the Bradford pear is now. Her front breakfast room window overlooks the Bradford now, so she'd be able to see the magnolia from where she spends a lot of her time. 

This is a picture of the foundation bed from 2 years ago to give a sense of how small the space we're working in. That's the offending Bradford in the middle. 

Do you have any suggestions for a magnolia or other tree?

Halesia (Silverbell), Syringa reticulata, Cladrastis kentukia, Parrotia persica, and Magnolia acuminata. These are all winter hardy to zone 4, and they are tough trees that we use as street trees here, when we don't have room for bigger trees.

[stemmie]

treedimensional,

Thanks. I'll add these to my list.

[mae141]

If you are interested in wildlife, I highly remember planting something native to your area (which is completely different from being hardy to your zone). Your local native plant society should have some suggestions.

[rubytue]

My first thought was a service berry. It won’t get 30 feet, more like 15-20, but the berries are tasty and won’t leave a mess, because you will have to fight the birds for them. The birds love them. If you want any for yourself, then look for a Saskatoon. That name should give aware their hardiness. Beautiful in the spring, native in most of the US, birds love them. And berries! I’m a sucker for berries!

[macmars45]

I just bought a flowering cherry tree yesterday. No fruit that falls to the ground. Maybe some that stays on the tree for the birds. It will only get roughly 15-18 ft tall. I'm so excited! I am in zone 6b.
I went to a local nursery near my house. They gave me options for what would grow best, not be a fruit bearing tree and that my H & DS aren't allergic to. They were really helpful, will deliver and plant it too.

[Wallflower]

Update - Just today, I bought a Cherokee Chief Dogwood, 1.5-inch diameter trunk so it has some growth. I still have to get the old stump ground out and contact someone to plant it, but the nursery suggested a name for me. If she can't do it, I have some other ideas. Photos included because I just love the flower!

[dr.girlfriend]

May 6, 2023 12:34:44 GMT -5 Wallflower said:

Update - Just today, I bought a Cherokee Chief Dogwood, 1.5-inch diameter trunk so it has some growth. I still have to get the old stump ground out and contact someone to plant it, but the nursery suggested a name for me. If she can't do it, I have some other ideas. Photos included because I just love the flower!


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Aw, my son planted one of those in our front yard a few years ago.  The leader died when the tree guys dug it up and replanted it when they were taking our giant tree down so it's staying short, but it comes back every year and the flowers are beautiful!  We are in 7A.

[momin2013]

I love our Cherokee Dogwood! We got ours a couple years ago and it’s grown about 1’ per year, I’d say (zone 5b) - I think our flowers are a bit behind yours.