@Kansas City Ralph Yarl

[pixy0stix]

Apr 19, 2023 7:54:17 GMT -5 hermione said:

It feels like a lot of mental gymnastics are happening in this post. I am not sure what they are supposed to accomplish. A white guy shot a black kid because that child dared to ring his doorbell. The prosecuting attorney declared there is a racial component to the case. The shooter's cognitive ability and/or his level of fear don't change that.

I mean, sure, let's have the same conversation where we all talk about racism and guns and not how we (general) don't also feed into the societal fear that props up gun culture.

[anodyne]

Apr 19, 2023 8:03:31 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

abc13.com/texas-cheerleaders-shot-elgin-tello-rodriguez-heather-roth/13152810/

Can't get into the wrong car either. I'm guessing the shooter was not white as he was arrested right away.

I've both accidentally grabbed the door handle of the wrong car (never got in) and also 2x had a kid get in my car by mistake. In all those situations I never thought defense was needed, in fact both kids were scared and embarrassed and I reassured them it was OK.

They weren't even in the car when he shot them. 

"Roth said she got out of her friend's car and opened the door to a car she thought was her own, but a man was in the passenger seat. She said she got out of the car and back into her friend's vehicle. When the man approached their vehicle, Roth rolled down the window to apologize and the man started shooting, she later said."

I drove a hand-me-down Camary in college.  Something was wrong with the ignition, I could take the key out while the car was running.  We had 2 Camary's and they both did it so I always assumed it was a common defect.  People would slowly follow you walking to your car to get the parking spot which made me anxious.  I was able to unlock and start the ignition of an identical car only to touch the gear shift and it didn't feel like mine.  My neighbor got in my mom's car one morning thinking it was her ride.  

[estrellita]

Apr 19, 2023 8:13:40 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

Apr 19, 2023 8:03:31 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

abc13.com/texas-cheerleaders-shot-elgin-tello-rodriguez-heather-roth/13152810/

Can't get into the wrong car either. I'm guessing the shooter was not white as he was arrested right away.

I've both accidentally grabbed the door handle of the wrong car (never got in) and also 2x had a kid get in my car by mistake. In all those situations I never thought defense was needed, in fact both kids were scared and embarrassed and I reassured them it was OK.

Jesus. As the owner of a grey Honda CR-V (of which there are a ZILLION) I have done this more times than I can count. 

I tried opening the trunk a few months ago of another of my car. Same exact color, parked just a few spots from mine. Pulled on it a few times and wondered why it wasn't opening when I finally realized it and embarrassed me walked to the RIGHT car, lol.

I wasn't scared of being shot at the time, but I'll definitely be more careful now and look for my stickers or license plate. I get being freaked out if someone accidentally gets in your car, especially at night, but still. Why is everyone's immediate instinct to shoot everyone in these situations? Ugh.

[hermione]

Apr 19, 2023 8:21:53 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Apr 19, 2023 7:54:17 GMT -5 hermione said:

It feels like a lot of mental gymnastics are happening in this post. I am not sure what they are supposed to accomplish. A white guy shot a black kid because that child dared to ring his doorbell. The prosecuting attorney declared there is a racial component to the case. The shooter's cognitive ability and/or his level of fear don't change that.

I mean, sure, let's have the same conversation where we all talk about racism and guns and not how we (general) don't also feed into the societal fear that props up gun culture.

That's not at all what I meant. I apologize if it cam across that way. It feels wrong to me to say maybe he had a stroke or he was very scared because then we can absolve ourselves of our own racism and biases because "we aren't like him." 

[bronxgirl]

Apr 19, 2023 10:27:47 GMT -5 hermione said:

Apr 19, 2023 8:21:53 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I mean, sure, let's have the same conversation where we all talk about racism and guns and not how we (general) don't also feed into the societal fear that props up gun culture.

That's not at all what I meant. I apologize if it cam across that way. It feels wrong to me to say maybe he had a stroke or he was very scared because then we can absolve ourselves of our own racism and biases because "we aren't like him." 

That's not at all what anyone was saying about feeling fear or having a stroke. Two things can be true at once. Someone can experience an emotion and still be racist. Someone can suffer a neurological injury and still be racist. None of that excuses shooting someone. Yes, he probably did feel scared. But that doesn't excuse his actions and further emphasizes why "responsible gun ownership" is a myth. I'm not sure where you came up with the supposed "mental gymnastics", or the idea that discussing the multiple societal ills that result in the massive gun violence crisis that our country is mired in is somehow an attempt to absolve oneself of racial bias, but I assure you, it isn't. it's an important discussion we need to have.

[pugz]

Ralph is recovering really well so far. They found a trauma informed therapist for him to work with and physically he is recovering but has a TBI so it won't be a fast recovery. Amazing that he is home already though. He had an hour long phone call with Biden yesterday and VP Harris also called and spoke with him.

Local groups are still putting a lot of pressure on the PD for the handling of the case i.e. releasing the shooter after only 2 hours, having no idea where he was after that so they couldn't easily bring him in (he turned himself in yesterday), false information shared in press conferences, and the general downplaying of the whole situation until it blew up on the national stage.


The charges carry a lot of weight but there's also the question of why attempted murder isn't one of the charges (and why felony assault carries higher penalties than attempted murder).

[NewOrleans]

Apr 18, 2023 17:32:52 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Apr 18, 2023 16:13:08 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Why would it seem equally likely, in the same state where Mike Brown was murdered and the state of Dred Scott and the Missouri Compromise, that an elderly man is a stroke patient as he is a racist?

He himself said the child was big and scared him. We have heard this before.

This man doesn’t need us on this board to take up for him. He has his guns, the NRA, and the white nationalists on his side.

I’m not saying it’s equally likely. And I have not once said that racism was not a factor. It absolutely is. He would not have shot a white woman. I’m saying that two things can be true. And one thing could impact his ability to control the other. That doesn’t let him off the hook or defend him.

I realize this is my bias based on my professional experience, and it’s quite possible he has not had a stroke. But I’ve been cussed at and swung at by too many reportedly previously kind and gentle people to just write off anyone as just a pure asshole, especially once I saw the picture.

your first post really sounds like you’re saying the aggression of his reaction is a residual effect of a stroke.  TBH, so does the “not willing to write anyone off” follow up post. I really like you as a poster so don’t see this as some mad callout.  Just, I’m not sure this is the direction to go with an attempt on a child’s life.  

[lilac05]

Apr 19, 2023 13:40:24 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Apr 18, 2023 17:32:52 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I’m not saying it’s equally likely. And I have not once said that racism was not a factor. It absolutely is. He would not have shot a white woman. I’m saying that two things can be true. And one thing could impact his ability to control the other. That doesn’t let him off the hook or defend him.

I realize this is my bias based on my professional experience, and it’s quite possible he has not had a stroke. But I’ve been cussed at and swung at by too many reportedly previously kind and gentle people to just write off anyone as just a pure asshole, especially once I saw the picture.

your first post really sounds like you’re saying the aggression of his reaction is a residual effect of a stroke.  TBH, so does the “not willing to write anyone off” follow up post. I really like you as a poster so don’t see this as some mad callout.  Just, I’m not sure this is the direction to go with an attempt on a child’s life.  

I understand your point. I can see how it reads that way, and it’s not my intention. Thanks for pointing it out. I still believe two things can be true (not arguing that this is racist behavior), but of course you have perfectly good reason to disagree with me. My comments about cognitive status aren’t to excuse behavior at all, but to highlight how desperately we need gun reform in this country. It’s not just those with a history of mental illness who shouldn’t be allowed to have guns.

[lilac05]

pugz, I noticed in an interview earlier that his mom was careful to point out that he’s at home BUT only because he’s surrounded by medical professionals at home. His mom is a nurse and they have several other family in the field. I’m glad he has the support at home.

I’m currently listening to “When Thoughts and Prayers Aren’t Enough” and the author described a similar situation where attempted murder carried a lesser charge than whatever they charged her shooter with. I don’t understand completely, but in that case, the prosecutor also chose the other charges because they came with a higher penalty (which is what I think they’re trying to do in this case, too, correct?). It seems backwards. I also got the impression that one would be much easier to prove, as they don’t have to prove intent. (I could be wrong on that part, though…definitely not a lawyer!)

[NewOrleans]

Offered without comment

Mr. Lester lives in a modest beige house outfitted with surveillance cameras, though city data shows there is relatively little crime in his quiet neighborhood near the northern edge of Kansas City. Neighbors said that his wife was recently moved to a nursing home, leaving him alone in his house. He spent considerable time at home in a living room chair, watching conservative news programs at high volume, a relative said.

Klint Ludwig, a grandson, said in an interview that he and his grandfather used to be close. The two had become estranged in part, Mr. Ludwig said, because Mr. Lester had embraced right-wing conspiracy theories.

Mr. Lester used to tell his grandson about serving in the military decades ago, and recount stories of working as a mechanic in the airline industry. They celebrated holidays together with extended family who lived in the Kansas City area. Mr. Ludwig, who described himself as left wing, said that Mr. Lester kept a large number of firearms in his home, including rifles and handguns.

But at a family gathering during the coronavirus pandemic, Mr. Ludwig said, Mr. Lester began sharing a conspiracy theory involving Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the infectious disease expert.

“I was like, ‘Man, this sounds crazy,’” recalled Mr. Ludwig, 28. “I told him it was ridiculous.”

The two have not had a relationship since, Mr. Ludwig said.

Mr. Ludwig, who lives in a suburb of Kansas City, described his grandfather as prone to making remarks that he considered disparaging about Black people, gay people and immigrants.

www.nytimes.com/2023/04/19/us/yarl-gillis-shooting-missouri-ny.html

[NewOrleans]

⬆️ Even though I quoted a big chunk, it is nowhere near the length of the full article ⬆️

[erbear]

If it talks like a racist and acts like a racist, can’t we all just agree that this was a racist dude who was “scared” of a Black boy who rang his doorbell and shot him without a second thought? Jesus. There is a ton of white liberal what if going on here.

[msmerymac]

Apr 19, 2023 13:32:43 GMT -5 pugz said:

Ralph is recovering really well so far. They found a trauma informed therapist for him to work with and physically he is recovering but has a TBI so it won't be a fast recovery. Amazing that he is home already though. He had an hour long phone call with Biden yesterday and VP Harris also called and spoke with him.

Local groups are still putting a lot of pressure on the PD for the handling of the case i.e. releasing the shooter after only 2 hours, having no idea where he was after that so they couldn't easily bring him in (he turned himself in yesterday), false information shared in press conferences, and the general downplaying of the whole situation until it blew up on the national stage.


The charges carry a lot of weight but there's also the question of why attempted murder isn't one of the charges (and why felony assault carries higher penalties than attempted murder).

His mom is a nurse, so I don't know if that factored into them discharging him already, but she's caring for him at home. 

[bronxgirl]

Apr 19, 2023 19:50:45 GMT -5 erbear said:

If it talks like a racist and acts like a racist, can’t we all just agree that this was a racist dude who was “scared” of a Black boy who rang his doorbell and shot him without a second thought? Jesus. There is a ton of white liberal what if going on here.

Huh?  Nobody denied he was racist.  That seemed like a given.

[sonrisa]

It's both. It's guns. And it's racism. And our gun culture springs directly from our racism.

[NewOrleans]

The racist next generation has emerged, but the one grandson from my above post still has much to say about Grandad.


In interviews with The Kansas City Star, some of Lester's relatives said they do not believe he is racist nor that he shot Yarl explicitly because the teenager is Black.

Daniel Ludwig, another grandson of Lester's, told the newspaper that he thinks his grandfather would not have shot Yarl if he didn't believe Yarl had "gone for the door."

"If you look at the affidavit, there were actions taken that caused it," Daniel Ludwig said. 😒

Dean Smith, a nephew of Lester's, told The Star, “He's worked with so many people. He's been a supervisor and all, over different races. He's just a really straightforward, everyday person. He was just retired military, trying to get on with life." Clear evidence he can’t possibly be racist!

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/grandson-man-shot-ralph-yarl-says-fear-conspiracies-consume-rcna80651

[NewOrleans]

NYT article I already linked has an update.
racist ✅
Fox ✅
DV ✅

Mary Clayton, 81, was married to Mr. Lester when she was a young woman. She remembers the 14-year marriage as troubled: Mr. Lester was prone to fits of rage, smashing objects in their home when he was angry. Back then, when she summoned the police, they told her that it was his house and that he could do as he liked.

“I was always scared of him,” Ms. Clayton said. “It doesn’t surprise me, what happened.”

[lilac05]

NewOrleans, I appreciate the update. It’s been a crazy week and I haven’t been able to follow the articles. I know enough to no longer wonder if there was any change of behavior for him (which I did acknowledge all along was a possibility). I’m no longer withholding judgment. (Not that anyone cares.) Just your run of the mill racist asshole.

I hope his current wife can now live in peace, as I assume he treated her like his previous wife.

[maudefindlay]

Apr 20, 2023 21:49:47 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

NewOrleans, I appreciate the update. It’s been a crazy week and I haven’t been able to follow the articles. I know enough to no longer wonder if there was any change of behavior for him (which I did acknowledge all along was a possibility). I’m no longer withholding judgment. (Not that anyone cares.) Just your run of the mill racist asshole.

I hope his current wife can now live in peace, as I assume he treated her like his previous wife.

Well, he's out on bail, so not yet. I'm not confident he will serve much if any time, because "he's old!".

[mcsangel2]

Apr 20, 2023 21:49:47 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

NewOrleans , I appreciate the update. It’s been a crazy week and I haven’t been able to follow the articles. I know enough to no longer wonder if there was any change of behavior for him (which I did acknowledge all along was a possibility). I’m no longer withholding judgment. (Not that anyone cares.) Just your run of the mill racist asshole.

I hope his current wife can now live in peace, as I assume he treated her like his previous wife.

Well a previous article said his wife was recently moved to a nursing home, so hopefully she is safe where she is.

[ellipses84]

I saw an interview of one of the grandsons who said the shooter watched Fox News 24/7. No surprise. Stand your ground laws or carrying without a permit /training cause so many deaths.

PDQ My BIL was shot to death in a similar situation, although he was not sober and went inside the wrong house. It was tragic for everyone involved.