@ Banning Backpacks

[maudefindlay]

If our politicians won't do their jobs then schools are forced to put a bandaid on the situation.

people.com/crime/michigan-school-district-bans-backpacks-even-clear-ones-amid-concern-over-guns/

[pumpkin]

I don’t know what the answer is, and it’s been a long long time since I was in school, but how are kids to carry everything? I remember there being days I had more school stuff than fit in my backpack, not to mention my lunch, band instrument, and in high school a whole gym bag for sports practice.

I’m so over politicians not doing their jobs.

[maudefindlay]

pumpkin I will say my 8th grader brings home folders and a Chrome book on the regular. My younger kids bring home big binders, occasionally their chromebooks, and rarely a textbook. Still it would be awkward to manage that all without a backpack unless school are going completely paperless.

[Jalapeñomel]

This is utterly ridiculous. And not a solution.

[basilosaurus]

Are metal detectors not in schools anymore? They were in most in the 90s in my area.

How are kids supposed to transport textooks? I lugged a shitton home every night, and I was a bad student who often just didn't do my homework. I did all the reading, though. We also usually had to have textbook and notebook for 2-3 classes at a time because of so little time between classes, so we couldn't go to lockers easily sometimes.

Fuck the gqp.

nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/public-mass-shootings-database-amasses-details-half-century-us-mass-shootings
Firearms
Notably, most individuals who engaged in mass shootings used handguns (77.2%), and 25.1% used assault rifles in the commission of their crimes. Of the known mass shooting cases (32.5% of cases could not be confirmed), 77% of those who engaged in mass shootings purchased at least some of their guns legally, while illegal purchases were made by 13% of those committing mass shootings. In cases involving K-12 school shootings, over 80% of individuals who engaged in shootings stole guns from family members.

The findings support safe storage of guns. Yet, the researchers noted that there are no federal laws requiring safe storage of guns, and no federal standards for firearm locks. The data also support “red flag” laws permitting law enforcement or family members to petition a state court to order temporary removal of a firearm from a person who presents a danger.

[icedcoffee]

No. This is not the best solution. I'm not on board at all.

[Bad Dingo]

I agree with OPs statement, the schools are being forced into this position because politicians won't do their jobs.

[fortnightlily]

This isn't new, I remember this being a thing back when I was in middle school for a little while. And I've seen talks of allowing only 'clear' backpacks for years. It was a silly non answer to the problem then and it is now. Policymakers have failed on this issue for decades.

[formerlyak]

I am not sharing this because I agree with banning backpacks as a solution to the gun problem, but to answer some questions upthread.

Our middle school didn’t allow backpacks. It was a space issue. There wasn’t space in the classrooms to put them anywhere that kids and teachers wouldn’t trip over them. Kids generally got a big zipper binder. They’d put their ChromeBooks in it and carry that around. So it was all contained but the binder would fit in the little tray thing under their seat. It had a section for each course and a big pocket for pens and a calculator. DS had one with a large pouch on the front that fit the ChromeBook. It was actually cheaper than a backpack.

As for textbooks, very few classes use them. Most resources are online. DS is a junior and has only ever actually used a textbook in Honors Bio and AP US History. The kids have not been required to bring them to class ever. They are issued in the fall and stay at home for homework. Then they are returned the last week of school.

[ECB]

This is beyond ridiculous. I dont' know about your kids, but the kids' at DSs school- they hardly use their lockers. They pretty much carry around ALL their books with them all day - how are they supposed to do this w/o backpacks??  (They move primarily between 2 buildings and sometimes go to a 3rd, so going to their lockers between classes is often impossible)

Ironically- DSs school does a "anything but a backpack" day where kids have to get creative with what they carry their books in. So perhaps what was done as a fun activity at school will now become the norm.  

[cattledogkisses]

May 3, 2023 8:17:04 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

This isn't new, I remember this being a thing back when I was in middle school for a little while. And I've seen talks of allowing only 'clear' backpacks for years. It was a silly non answer to the problem then and it is now. Policymakers have failed on this issue for decades.

It was also a thing when I was in high school from 2000-2004.  You were allowed to use a backpack to bring textbooks/notebooks/folders to and from school at the beginning and end of the day, but during the school day the backpack had to stay in your locker.

And ITA with the bolded.  It was a policy failure 20 years ago, and it's still a policy failure now.


ETA: My high school was built the year after Columbine, and there were a lot of things about it that were influenced by that. We were ahead of the times on school security in a weird, messed up way. 

[livinitup]

I consider this a failure of the backpack lobby to protect the interests of the backpack industry.

If only our founding fathers had the foresight to protect every American’s right to own a backpack, we wouldn’t be facing this assault on our freedom now.

[macmars45]

And lets not forget about all the kids feeling embarrassed about their periods. A clear backpack or no backpack will help that. Having to strategically hid your pads or tampons in your crappy no pockets outfit because only 'boy' pants/shorts have good pockets sounds like a nightmare to me.

That and carrying a lunch bag & water bottle around all day in your arms.

Also, as usual this is ableist for all the disabled kids. All the stuff most kids carry in two hands/arms I'd have had to carry in one. There are kids today with disabilities that are in gen ed (and switching classes with very short passing periods) that might not be able to walk fast enough to get to their lockers for stuff between classes and/or carry all their needed stuff from class to class.

[orval]

My ds is part of a youth civic leadership group. They recently met with the a few school board members. My ds said the biggest issue brought up by the kids was school safety. They also relayed a story where a kid brought parts of a gun to school on different days. THey do have metal detectors. They were not detected and after 4-5 days, the kid had the entire gun in the school. He had no issues at all getting it into school. Banning backpacks won't solve this problem. The district also bought like half a million clear backpacks to distribute, then decided the plastic was harmful and sold them for pennies on the dollar. Brilliant use of funds.

[basilosaurus]

May 3, 2023 8:27:17 GMT -5 ECB said:

This is beyond ridiculous. I dont' know about your kids, but the kids' at DSs school- they hardly use their lockers. They pretty much carry around ALL their books with them all day - how are they supposed to do this w/o backpacks??  (They move primarily between 2 buildings and sometimes go to a 3rd, so going to their lockers between classes is often impossible)

Ironically- DSs school does a "anything but a backpack" day where kids have to get creative with what they carry their books in. So perhaps what was done as a fun activity at school will now become the norm.  

is be tempted to use a wheelbarrow.

When Thailand banned plastic bags in January 2020 lots of people got kre8tive to post pics. It was hilarious.

This is now

[4speedy]

My kids are allowed to take backpacks to school but they walk in past a metal detector AND what they refer to as a “bomb dog” (the dog apparently can sniff gun powder and would be able to sniff a gun?” Once in school, back picks must stay in their lockers. They can’t even take their gym clothes into the locker room inside any type of bag. They do, however, both take an insulated lunch bag to the cafeteria. My younger kid is in middle school and they just added a private security officer who carries a gun. He’s there full time, in addition to the resource officer who patrols the three schools on their campus.

I would not be surprised if they go to no backpacks at all soon.

[basilosaurus]

I have so many questions re Chromebooks. I was part of a pilot program in high school for laptops in classrooms, back in the dark ages. But I don't want to derail.

Are textbooks all electronic now? I find that difficult to believe because publishers tend to suck about such things

Because what matters is the yet insanity of American gun cultures and spineless, at best, politicians to do anything.

I guess the metal detectors aren't very sensitive if parts could still get through. My very slim analog watch sets it off at airports.

[penguingrrl]

That’s just utter garbage and theater.

Also, my kid’s high school doesn’t even have enough lockers for their student population, so few kids have one. Even those who have an assigned locker apparently don’t use it. Where are they carrying all their books, notebooks, pens/pencils, calculators, Chromebooks, phones, tampons, etc if bags are banned?

[maudefindlay]

Our schools do not have metal detectors. Our grade schools the kids empty backpacks to their desks or a cubby and then put up their backpacks. DS1 is in middle school and this year they forbid backpacks in classrooms, so he has to use his locker which there is barely time to get to. I think he carries all AM stuff then at lunch switches out and carries all PM stuff. Reasoning was teachers and students tripping on bags. Seems like maybe they could line one wall with bags upon entry or hang them on backs of chairs. Idk, I'm sure there are reasons those ideas won't work.

[basilosaurus]

May 3, 2023 9:00:52 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

That’s just utter garbage and theater.

Also, my kid’s high school doesn’t even have enough lockers for their student population, so few kids have one. Even those who have an assigned locker apparently don’t use it. Where are they carrying all their books, notebooks, pens/pencils, calculators, Chromebooks, phones, tampons, etc if bags are banned?

Is it theater? Or it's it desperation at the lack of anything being done to curb gun violence? It's probably both.

Someone mentioned a large zip folder because it can be put under a desk. As a space, trip safety concern that makes sense. But that does nothing about guns. Which, well, that *should* be the only concern for schools and parents.

[StrawberryBlondie]

May 3, 2023 8:37:57 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

May 3, 2023 8:17:04 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

This isn't new, I remember this being a thing back when I was in middle school for a little while. And I've seen talks of allowing only 'clear' backpacks for years. It was a silly non answer to the problem then and it is now. Policymakers have failed on this issue for decades.

It was also a thing when I was in high school from 2000-2004.  You were allowed to use a backpack to bring textbooks/notebooks/folders to and from school at the beginning and end of the day, but during the school day the backpack had to stay in your locker.

And ITA with the bolded.  It was a policy failure 20 years ago, and it's still a policy failure now.


ETA: My high school was built the year after Columbine, and there were a lot of things about it that were influenced by that. We were ahead of the times on school security in a weird, messed up way. 

Columbine was my senior year of high school and I remember the no backpack/clear backpack discussion back then.

[smock]

But then how are bulletproof backpacks going to solve the gun problem? 🤔

[erbear]

No backpacks is mostly a space concern. Classrooms are overcrowded. That said, my students carry their backpacks everywhere (and have lockers, but they don't really use them). No textbooks (they only have them for Math, and they leave them in school and access the online ones for homework). We do not have metal detectors and I would be unhappy if we did.

This is theater, pure and simple. There is little real value to clear backpacks or banning them. I hate hate hate that kids are putting in all the work because the grownups won't do what they actually need to do, which is legislate guns.

[Patsy Baloney]

May 3, 2023 8:54:00 GMT -5 4speedy said:

My kids are allowed to take backpacks to school but they walk in past a metal detector AND what they refer to as a “bomb dog” (the dog apparently can sniff gun powder and would be able to sniff a gun?” Once in school, back picks must stay in their lockers. They can’t even take their gym clothes into the locker room inside any type of bag. They do, however, both take an insulated lunch bag to the cafeteria. My younger kid is in middle school and they just added a private security officer who carries a gun. He’s there full time, in addition to the resource officer who patrols the three schools on their campus.

I would not be surprised if they go to no backpacks at all soon.

This is actually very similar to what I grew up with. It changed after Columbine. Immediately, we were no longer allowed to carry backpacks. Everything had to stay in the locker.

If, for some health reason, a student needed to carry a backpack, it had to be clear. But that was extremely rare. You were more likely to have a helper assigned to you that would carry your things for you and help you get from class to class.

[mala]

My middle school didn't allow backpacks theoretically because of space, the school was way over capacity. It was before laptops in school, and it was AWFUL. I had so many books. I ended up with a mini-backpack for pens and small things, most kids used a zip pouch. I had to carry at least 3 heavy books both before and after lunch. Lockers were all in a central location, but with 4 minutes between classes, and only one way "up" from the bottom floor (All stairs were "down", big ramp in the middle of the school was "up") it was impossible to get to the lockers between classes.

[seeyalater52]

May 3, 2023 8:17:04 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

This isn't new, I remember this being a thing back when I was in middle school for a little while. And I've seen talks of allowing only 'clear' backpacks for years. It was a silly non answer to the problem then and it is now. Policymakers have failed on this issue for decades.

I was going to say the same. Ridiculous then, even more ridiculous now. That any policymaker can pose this as an actual solution is beyond embarrassing at this point. Get serious.

[basilosaurus]

May 3, 2023 11:00:42 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

May 3, 2023 8:17:04 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

This isn't new, I remember this being a thing back when I was in middle school for a little while. And I've seen talks of allowing only 'clear' backpacks for years. It was a silly non answer to the problem then and it is now. Policymakers have failed on this issue for decades.

I was going to say the same. Ridiculous then, even more ridiculous now. That any policymaker can pose this as an actual solution is beyond embarrassing at this point. Get serious.

I totally understand this sentiment. But when faced with utter inaction at the legislative level I can understand grasping at the last tiny bit of control.

The solution is not at the individual school district level. They get my blame for sure, but only a small fraction of all the other assholes who could actually do something

[loira]

May 3, 2023 9:54:55 GMT -5 smock said:

But then how are bulletproof backpacks going to solve the gun problem? 🤔

Obviously children will have to wear kevlar bodysuit uniforms. Extra coverage for the girls' uniforms so they aren't too revealing, for good measure. 

[lostrn]

Back in the 1990s we weren't allowed to bring backpacks to middle school, but I think it was a space issue. I think. My 9th grader has never had to bring a textbook home. If there is a need for a physical textbook the kids use a physical copy in the classroom and leave it there for the other classes. His backpack is packed still between the laptop and folders for each class. So far none of his school's have had metal detectors. But visitors do need to be buzzed in.

[seeyalater52]

May 3, 2023 11:11:08 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

May 3, 2023 11:00:42 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

I was going to say the same. Ridiculous then, even more ridiculous now. That any policymaker can pose this as an actual solution is beyond embarrassing at this point. Get serious.

I totally understand this sentiment. But when faced with utter inaction at the legislative level I can understand grasping at the last tiny bit of control.

The solution is not at the individual school district level. They get my blame for sure, but only a small fraction of all the other assholes who could actually do something

Oh sure, there’s plenty of blame to go around. In some ways though it is even sillier for individual schools to pose this as a solution given that they (should) have an even better understanding and proximity to the multitude of reasons this is not a workable measure.