5/6 - Mass shooting in Dallas Outlets

[neverfstop]

The gunman who opened fire on an outlet mall in a Dallas suburb Saturday, killing at least eight people, was a man in his early 30s who may have had white supremacist or neo-Nazi beliefs, people familiar with the investigation said Sunday.

Mauricio Garcia, a local resident, had multiple weapons on him and in his nearby car, said people familiar with the investigation who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the ongoing probe.

Authorities have not released a motive, but a patch on his chest said “RWDS,” an acronym that stands for Right Wing Death Squad, according to people familiar with the investigation. The phrase is popular among right wing extremists, neo-Nazis and white supremacists, they said. In addition to the weapons found on his body, investigators found another five guns inside his car nearby, these people said.
www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/05/07/texas-allen-outlets-shooting-dallas/

[NewOrleans]

May 7, 2023 14:33:33 GMT -5 livinitup said:

I don’t have a solution that hasn’t been suggested and dismissed by assault weapon enthusiasts. A few years ago, there was some good reporting on a mom, a regular person, whose young child died by an accidental discharge of a weapon in her home. She still kept loaded weapons in her home and car even though she had another young child. She was adamant that her surviving son was safer with guns around than not. When asked something like “If you knew, before he died, that the gun would kill your son- would you remove the guns from your home/car?” She said absolutely not. Even dead, from an accidental discharge from the gun, he was safer with the guns around. And so is her other child.

A part of me broke the day I read that mom saying that.

Lot of stories like that in this book (the focus of the gun section is Missouri)
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_of_Whiteness

[mcppalmbeach]

May 7, 2023 13:36:33 GMT -5 erbear said:

May 7, 2023 9:43:23 GMT -5 @villainv said:

There is a growing narrative among a lot of teachers that kids’ behavior is out of control and there aren’t enough consequences.

From what I’ve seen at C’s school and heard from my husband (who teaches at the same school) the school is definitely very hesitant to suspend kids, and tries to offer behavioral support instead of traditional punishments — all of which I agree with! The problem is the school isn’t funded sufficiently to provide the necessary level of support to all the kids who need it. Which obviously makes teachers’ jobs that much harder because they are expected to cover the shortfall. This definitely fuels a narrative of “kids aren’t held accountable for their bad behavior anymore.”

@@@

It has also become increasingly hard to hold kids accountable for their behavior because parents come at teachers and schools when we try. Discipline is definitely a growing issue in schools these days — my job on that front is much harder than it was in recent years.

PDQ.

I really feel for you with this. The prevailing complaint at my school right now by teachers is that you send a kid down to the office for pretty severe disciplinary issues and they come back with a lollipop and a hug. It’s creating really unhappy teachers and frankly me as an unhappy parent. My son’s class has a child who has a pretty big behavior problem and another who’s also pretty challenging. she does centers while she pulls small groups for instruction or testing and I can tell you the other two groups that he isn’t in receive very disjointed and distracted instruction and testing. I can tell it’s wearing on his teacher. Several weeks ago he punched my ds in the face during a special. The specials teacher called and told me that because she did not see it, he would receive no disciplinary action unless I as a parent said something and begged me to tell admin because they will do nothing for the teachers. I volunteer weekly in that class and he can be sweet and does much better one on one. But he’s getting no help beyond what the teacher can provide in the class and that’s just not enough.

[erbear]

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I don’t want to derail this post with school discipline stuff but yeah…all of this. Most of society’s issues stem from how we’re running and funding schools.

[Deleted]

@@@@@@@

Can a mod pull out the school discipline stuff and start a new thread? I’m partially to blame for derailing this thread, but I think it might be a good discussion? [mention]dickmove [/mention]

[dove]

This is local-ish to me. Local news reporting he had been in the U.S. Army in 2008 but was removed due to mental health concerns.

www.wfaa.com/article/news/crime/who-was-allen-outlet-mall-shooter-what-we-know/287-6e49cb7a-304e-43fa-b791-990ea8780f28

Yet he was able to acquire an arsenal of guns

[ssmjlm]

May 7, 2023 12:24:54 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

May 7, 2023 8:45:54 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

It won’t end until the gun supporters lose their own to gun violence. If that even gives them common sense.

DH and I were just talking about how we used to give our kid more leash in stores, but now, I feel like I need her nearby anywhere.

If you really believe that gun supporters have never lost loved ones to gun violence, then you must believe the gun-rights talking point that guns can somehow stop you from being a victim.

The worst states for gun violence have the loosest gun laws.

ETA: Apologies for coming in a bit hot. But we’ve seen over and over and over again that for gun-nuts, losing a loved one to gun violence just makes them double down on the importance of having guns to protect themselves — and blaming everything EXCEPT guns. It’s not because they’ve been unscathed.

This article interviews a number of gun supporters who have lost loved ones and still want guns: www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/285829d5-3732-4bba-8d7d-91f8ff547d66

I’m out of ideas. If they are ok with having loved ones murdered by domestic terrorists then I can only hope the god they think will save them sends a good old lightning bolt to their front door.

[underwaterrhymes]

I just feel such despair.

[pinkyp]

May 7, 2023 13:30:57 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Personally, I think our national obsession with guns is related to some sort of our worst cultural traits as a society:

-our obsession with self-reliance and mistrust of government institutions
-racism and xenophobia (i.e. the fear of the “other” coming to get us — with “us” being white property owners)
-the elevation of property rights over human rights
-toxic masculinity
-our belief that capitalism can solve our problems rather than investing in a better social safety net
-property owners wanting to protect their outsized share of the pie and the wealth inequality (and desperation) that that breeds

Just go back and read the discussion last week about crime in cities. When the prevailing narrative (which is repeated constantly in the media) is that danger lurks around every corner — whether property crime or violent crime, no distinction — and the police have been “defunded,” then is it any wonder that local subreddits are filled with comments suggesting people get a weapon to protect themselves? And because that perception of “danger” reeks of racism and classism, we’re primed to view every knock on the door as someone about to attempt a home invasion rather than an everyday neighborhood interaction. Add in the idea that owning a gun makes you feel powerful in a society where we’re all increasingly powerless, and you’ve got gun (and American) culture in a nutshell.

So it’ll never change until we fix what’s fundamentally broken in our society. If we refuse to let go of the idea that we need guns, then it’ll continue to be way too easy for people who shouldn’t have guns to get their hands on them.

@@@

This is all so very well said. Re: the perception that danger is constantly lurking around every corner, I was just reading on Twitter where a guy was admonishing a 6 year old for ringing doorbells looking for her lost cat. He said something along the lines of "This is 2023. Teach your kids not to ring doorbells." And then stated that he'd had his weapon locked and loaded.

Is this real life? I can hardly wrap my head around a world where even normal doorbell- ringing interactions are a thing of the past for fear of someone like this on the other side of the door. It's absolutely infuriating and so sad.

[rubytue]

This culture of constant fear, with bad guys lurking at every turn just… I don’t know. A couple years ago I got into (on FB… I tend to avoid doing that now) with an old friend of mine (hahaha - she was actually from the board, but I knew her before). Anyway, either or a mutual were telling a story about someone “trapped” in a drive through lane at McDs, when someone looking sketchy was walking toward the car. And OMG, isn’t it so good to have a gun in the glove box for these situations.

One of the things then, and now, that just amazes me is they claim they aren’t scared all the time, and the gun makes them not scared. But yet, no recognition that they have been programmed to “fear for their life” every time a “sketchy” (aka brown) person approaches.

[tacokick]

May 8, 2023 6:22:56 GMT -5 pinkyp said:

@@@

This is all so very well said. Re: the perception that danger is constantly lurking around every corner, I was just reading on Twitter where a guy was admonishing a 6 year old for ringing doorbells looking for her lost cat. He said something along the lines of "This is 2023. Teach your kids not to ring doorbells." And then stated that he'd had his weapon locked and loaded.

Is this real life? I can hardly wrap my head around a world where even normal doorbell- ringing interactions are a thing of the past for fear of someone like this on the other side of the door. It's absolutely infuriating and so sad.

The doorbell thing is always weird to me because so many people like to record the neighborhood and do free surveillance for the police with doorbell (and other outdoor home) cameras now.

If you are so scared a child might knock on your door, wouldn’t a camera be a good option? They are relatively cheap and readily available and hopefully decrease the chance you will kill a six year old looking for their cat.

[mpm]

May 8, 2023 8:16:48 GMT -5 tacokick said:

May 8, 2023 6:22:56 GMT -5 pinkyp said:

@@@

This is all so very well said. Re: the perception that danger is constantly lurking around every corner, I was just reading on Twitter where a guy was admonishing a 6 year old for ringing doorbells looking for her lost cat. He said something along the lines of "This is 2023. Teach your kids not to ring doorbells." And then stated that he'd had his weapon locked and loaded.

Is this real life? I can hardly wrap my head around a world where even normal doorbell- ringing interactions are a thing of the past for fear of someone like this on the other side of the door. It's absolutely infuriating and so sad.

The doorbell thing is always weird to me because so many people like to record the neighborhood and do free surveillance for the police with doorbell (and other outdoor home) cameras now.

If you are so scared a child might knock on your door, wouldn’t a camera be a good option? They are relatively cheap and readily available and hopefully decrease the chance you will kill a six year old looking for their cat.

Yes. But also… reading this does make me a little worried to ever let my kids go up to another house’s front door. It’s a vicious cycle. A few people are so afraid of “others” that they arm themselves to the hilt, making the rest of us have to face the reality that we or our loved ones could be shot anywhere.

@@@
Earlier this year, we made the choice to keep our kid home the day of a field trip because her school thought it was nbd to take the kids to a theatre that allows anyone to carry a weapon inside and we weren’t comfortable sending our child to a place where guns are welcome right up to the moment that a shooting starts. And I can’t believe that we live in a place and time where that’s the kind of analysis we do before a kindergarten field trip.

[neverfstop]

Random tangent about the fear-mongering.... during the last writer's strike, the networks pivoted to reality shows and we got stuff like Cops and Big Brother.
www.avclub.com/writers-strike-reality-shows-boost-1850384866

I've read some recent commentary on COPS (the show) that it impacted and influence a generation to idolize law enforcement, to constantly think of criminals as looking/acting a certain way, and basically was really bad thing for our society/culture.

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jun/11/cops-american-police-tv-show

[taratru]

May 7, 2023 13:36:33 GMT -5 erbear said:

May 7, 2023 9:43:23 GMT -5 @villainv said:

There is a growing narrative among a lot of teachers that kids’ behavior is out of control and there aren’t enough consequences.

From what I’ve seen at C’s school and heard from my husband (who teaches at the same school) the school is definitely very hesitant to suspend kids, and tries to offer behavioral support instead of traditional punishments — all of which I agree with! The problem is the school isn’t funded sufficiently to provide the necessary level of support to all the kids who need it. Which obviously makes teachers’ jobs that much harder because they are expected to cover the shortfall. This definitely fuels a narrative of “kids aren’t held accountable for their bad behavior anymore.”

@@@

It has also become increasingly hard to hold kids accountable for their behavior because parents come at teachers and schools when we try. Discipline is definitely a growing issue in schools these days — my job on that front is much harder than it was in recent years.

And this is global, from what I'm hearing. I've already taken a job next year not in a school. I just can't do it anymore.

[taratru]

May 7, 2023 15:13:44 GMT -5 @villainv said:

May 7, 2023 13:36:33 GMT -5 erbear said:

@@@

It has also become increasingly hard to hold kids accountable for their behavior because parents come at teachers and schools when we try. Discipline is definitely a growing issue in schools these days — my job on that front is much harder than it was in recent years.

This is getting off-topic…but I wonder what effective discipline in schools actually looks like. When I was a kid, it meant suspension and expulsion, which was applied disproportionately to minorities, and was actively harmful to many kids. Are suspension an expulsion good tools if we could ever separate out the bias? Are there better forms of discipline that actually have a positive effect on behavior?

There absolutely is, but it takes lots of money, people, and time.

Until funding matches need, until salaries match the level of professionalism, and until parents trust schools again, it's only going to further decline.

[Deleted]

May 8, 2023 8:47:05 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Random tangent about the fear-mongering.... during the last writer's strike, the networks pivoted to reality shows and we got stuff like Cops and Big Brother.
www.avclub.com/writers-strike-reality-shows-boost-1850384866

I've read some recent commentary on COPS (the show) that it impacted and influence a generation to idolize law enforcement, to constantly think of criminals as looking/acting a certain way, and basically was really bad thing for our society/culture.

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jun/11/cops-american-police-tv-show

There’s a new cop show out called Reels? Reelz? Realz? It’s supposedly live? Like watching NFL red zone, but they cut to areas where something is going on and you watch what’s happening in real time, until they cut to something more “exciting.” My MIL (classic old white lady liberal) is obsessed with it and watches it with her trumper neighbors. It’s horrifying, racist garbage. But it has a huge audience.

[mrsslocombe]

May 8, 2023 9:06:15 GMT -5 @villainv said:

May 8, 2023 8:47:05 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Random tangent about the fear-mongering.... during the last writer's strike, the networks pivoted to reality shows and we got stuff like Cops and Big Brother.
www.avclub.com/writers-strike-reality-shows-boost-1850384866

I've read some recent commentary on COPS (the show) that it impacted and influence a generation to idolize law enforcement, to constantly think of criminals as looking/acting a certain way, and basically was really bad thing for our society/culture.

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jun/11/cops-american-police-tv-show

There’s a new cop show out called Reels? Reelz? Realz? It’s supposedly live? Like watching NFL red zone, but they cut to areas where something is going on and you watch what’s happening in real time, until they cut to something more “exciting.” My MIL (classic old white lady liberal) is obsessed with it and watches it with her trumper neighbors. It’s horrifying, racist garbage. But it has a huge audience.

It's the new version of LivePD, which was canned on A&E after George Floyd's murder. On top of the surface level racism, there's been a lot of exposes about how the producers and police department coordinate to target repeat offenders because there's usually a "guarantee" that they will be able to find something worthy of arrest.

Also just a point of clarification: Cops has been around since 1989, and Big Brother since 2001. The WGA strike didn't lead to the creation of those shows, but Big Brother did become more popular at that time.

So far there hasn't been much movement in unscripted, the industry has been VERY slow since late last year. This is the longest slow period I've ever seen in 15+ years. We aren't seeing a rush to greenlight anything, and even existing shows aren't getting new season orders as quickly (aside from Bravo shows). 

[TamiTaylor]

May 7, 2023 9:43:23 GMT -5 @villainv said:

May 7, 2023 9:26:47 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

The father of a girl murdered in Parkland literally blames not enough school suspensions/discipline and Democrats, and was a speaker at the RNC against gun legislation.

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-parkland-fathers-20190213-story.html

There is a growing narrative among a lot of teachers that kids’ behavior is out of control and there aren’t enough consequences.

From what I’ve seen at C’s school and heard from my husband (who teaches at the same school) the school is definitely very hesitant to suspend kids, and tries to offer behavioral support instead of traditional punishments — all of which I agree with! The problem is the school isn’t funded sufficiently to provide the necessary level of support to all the kids who need it. Which obviously makes teachers’ jobs that much harder because they are expected to cover the shortfall. This definitely fuels a narrative of “kids aren’t held accountable for their bad behavior anymore.”

Kids are not held accountable for a lot of things including behavior. However I do not believe that is the root cause in the increase in shootings. It’s the guns.

[NewOrleans]

2 victims identified so far. 😞

www.wfaa.com/amp/article/news/local/allen-texas-outlet-mall-shooting-what-we-know-about-victims-killed/287-7ff8216f-f593-46ab-9e46-82ed940b94ed

[NewOrleans]

Investigators have unearthed an extensive social media presence, including neo-Nazi and White supremacist-related posts and images that authorities believe Garcia shared online, according to the source.
amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/05/08/us/allen-texas-mall-shooting-gunman-monday/index.html

[NewOrleans]

Same article as above ^^

The murderer had worked for at least three security companies and had undergone hours of firearms proficiency training in recent years, according to a database maintained by the Texas Department of Public Safety.

None of the companies immediately responded to requests for comment.

The murderer was approved to work as a security guard in Texas from April 2016 until April 2020, when his license expired, according to his profile in the Texas Online Private Security database.

As part of his work, Garcia received Level II and Level III security training. The former covers security laws in Texas; the latter, which is required for all commissioned security officers and personal protection officers in Texas, includes firearm training and the demonstration of firearm proficiency, according to Jonah Nathan, vice president of Ranger Guard, a security guard service in Texas not affiliated with Garcia's employers.

[NewOrleans]

It’s not really clear that the murderer’s actions were directly related to his white supremacist politics. But I’m posting this year-old article because radicalization into WS is not confined to just white men.

www.axios.com/2022/03/10/rise-white-nationalist-hispanics-latinos

[escrow]

My company is based in Dallas, we are all remote and some of us are in other cities. This morning during our daily stand up a team member told us that he was at the outlet mall that morning 2 hours before the shooting and he is shook. The rest of the team continued discussing and certain members kept saying things like "the media always comes for Texas, but at least we are protected"...wtaf... I was LIVID and had to turn off my camera, so mad I had tears in my eyes. These are people who seem "normal" to me usually. I don't even want to go out for our team week next month now.

[NewOrleans]

@@@tw



Two elementary school students were among the eight people killed.
www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/texas-mall-shooting-live-updates-rcna83297#rcrd12980

[sonrisa]

May 8, 2023 13:33:54 GMT -5 escrow said:

 "the media always comes for Texas, but at least we are protected"

what do they mean by this? 

[escrow]

May 8, 2023 13:50:12 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

May 8, 2023 13:33:54 GMT -5 escrow said:

 "the media always comes for Texas, but at least we are protected"

what do they mean by this? 

I suppose that they all carry 24/7 which is laughable

[abs]

May 8, 2023 13:50:12 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

May 8, 2023 13:33:54 GMT -5 escrow said:

 "the media always comes for Texas, but at least we are protected"

what do they mean by this? 

Good guys with guns!! That always works, right???

/sarcasm

[sonrisa]

May 8, 2023 14:03:38 GMT -5 escrow said:

May 8, 2023 13:50:12 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

what do they mean by this? 

I suppose that they all carry 24/7 which is laughable

The idea that owns guns "protects" you rather than put you at heightened risk has really saturated some parts of this country hasn't it? No amount of evidence to the contrary seems to get through.

[abs]

Speaking of Texas, a bill to raise the minimum age to purchase assault rifles is making traction. Texans, Please call your reps! My R representative is actually supporting this bill and I’m shocked.

www.texastribune.org/2023/05/08/texas-gun-bill-uvalde-allen-mall-shooting/

[NewOrleans]

omg his Russian social media profile. Swastikas everywhere, a Hitler emoji as his profile, full of incel screeds, praising the Nashville shooter. It’s fucking sick.