SCOTUS case seeks to legalize assault weapons nationwide

[cattledogkisses]

The Supreme Court could hand down a decision any day now in National Association for Gun Rights v. City of Naperville, a case that could legalize assault weapons and high-capacity magazines in all 50 states.

The case challenges a Naperville, Illinois, ordinance and a similar Illinois state law, both of which ban assault weapons, which the state law defines to include certain semiautomatic rifles such as AR-15s and AK-47s. Additionally, the state law prohibits the sale of a “large capacity ammunition feeding device,” which the statute defines as long gun magazines that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition, or handgun magazines that hold more than 15 bullets.

The plaintiffs, which include a gun shop owner and a gun rights group, claim the two statutes violate the Second Amendment.

Should the Supreme Court accept that argument and overturn these laws, it would have sweeping implications for the entire country. That decision would need to be followed throughout the entire nation — which would most likely mean that neither any state nor the US Congress could ban assault rifles or high-capacity magazines.

www.vox.com/politics/2023/5/9/23716863/supreme-court-assault-rifles-weapons-national-association-gun-rights-naperville-brett-kavanaugh

[mpm]

We need to expand the Court. I don’t see any way around it.

[Jalapeñomel]

Yes, this seems like a brilliant idea after coming off two mass shootings last week. Just brilliant.

[penguingrrl]

Fuck, that’s terrifying!

[sent]

I feel nauseous.

[seeyalater52]

Me, waiting for smug liberals in blue states* to realize that state borders won’t save them….

*not referring to anyone here, just the “that’s what you get for living in a red state” sentiments of the past forever

[ECB]

JFC.

[Pilsy]

And here I am, having trouble wrapping my head around arguments against stricter gun control. They want to expand access to this shit?


I agree with Mel: we need to expand the court. And to hell with lifetime appointments while we're at it.

[hermione]

May 10, 2023 9:25:35 GMT -5 ECB said:

JFC.

I am here.

[Velar Fricative]

I think (hope?) I am just posting out of anger right now, but I'm sensing states and municipalities don't actually have the right to pass and implement their own laws and ordinances as long as someone out there sues because they don't like it. Especially with this court of shitheads. Like, can anyone in this country sue DeSantis and the FL legislature for Don't Say Gay? Or sue any states banning books or drag shows?

And even when every other amendment never struck me as absolute, somehow that pesky second one seems to be impervious.

[pixy0stix]

May 10, 2023 10:18:33 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I think (hope?) I am just posting out of anger right now, but I'm sensing states and municipalities don't actually have the right to pass and implement their own laws and ordinances as long as someone out there sues because they don't like it. Especially with this court of shitheads. Like, can anyone in this country sue DeSantis and the FL legislature for Don't Say Gay? Or sue any states banning books or drag shows?

And even when every other amendment never struck me as absolute, somehow that pesky second one seems to be impervious.

Generally, you have to be a resident of the locality where the law/rule originated. Then you work your way up the system via appeals until it hits (or doesn't hit) SCOTUS. Usually by the time they get to the federal judges there's serious money behind them to pay for all the lawyer fees, etc. so it becomes bigger than the original objection.

TL;DR - depends on how much money gets behind the cases.

[NewOrleans]

Let’s start a GoFundMe to buy Sotomator or Kagan.

[Velar Fricative]

May 10, 2023 10:28:31 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

May 10, 2023 10:18:33 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I think (hope?) I am just posting out of anger right now, but I'm sensing states and municipalities don't actually have the right to pass and implement their own laws and ordinances as long as someone out there sues because they don't like it. Especially with this court of shitheads. Like, can anyone in this country sue DeSantis and the FL legislature for Don't Say Gay? Or sue any states banning books or drag shows?

And even when every other amendment never struck me as absolute, somehow that pesky second one seems to be impervious.

Generally, you have to be a resident of the locality where the law/rule originated. Then you work your way up the system via appeals until it hits (or doesn't hit) SCOTUS. Usually by the time they get to the federal judges there's serious money behind them to pay for all the lawyer fees, etc. so it becomes bigger than the original objection.

TL;DR - depends on how much money gets behind the cases.

I know, I actually removed "with standing" originally in the lawsuit part because I am mad and want to believe I can sue for some dumb law somewhere else. But it does seem like the one thing SCOTUS has stuck with honoring for the most part are traditional definitions of standing...for now. 

Plus I have to check - there may be Floridians suing over their dumb state laws already. At least, I hope so. 

[sonrisa]

May 10, 2023 10:33:24 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Plus I have to check - there may be Floridians suing over their dumb state laws already. At least, I hope so. 

yes. wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/courts-law/2023-03-28/appeals-court-challenge-florida-law-restricting-instruction-gender-identity

[somersault72]

If at any point a fucking gun becomes more important to me than human beings, just take me out, ok? Because I can't imagine what it's like to feel that way and I don't ever want to know. It's honestly hard for me to put sentences together right now.

[noodleoo]

May 10, 2023 11:51:23 GMT -5 somersault72 said:

If at any point a fucking gun becomes more important to me than human beings, just take me out, ok? Because I can't imagine what it's like to feel that way and I don't ever want to know. It's honestly hard for me to put sentences together right now.

I mean, aren't we there already?  When there is a mass shooting pretty much daily and people are killed for ringing a doorbell or shopping at the mall, I think it is clear guns are valued more than human life.

[mpm]

May 10, 2023 12:19:17 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

May 10, 2023 11:51:23 GMT -5 somersault72 said:

If at any point a fucking gun becomes more important to me than human beings, just take me out, ok? Because I can't imagine what it's like to feel that way and I don't ever want to know. It's honestly hard for me to put sentences together right now.

I mean, aren't we there already?  When there is a mass shooting pretty much daily and people are killed for ringing a doorbell or shopping at the mall, I think it is clear guns are valued more than human life.

People get enraged for a week or so after the big events that make national news, and then go back to their lives. They don’t keep making phone calls. They don’t keep emailing their representatives. They don’t show up to protest. It’s all too much so it gets locked away in our minds in a little “not me, not here” box and everyone just goes back to their lives until the next one happens. It’s a trauma response. But the avoidance trauma response of the quiet majority is not going to effect change against a very vocal minority.

[AJL]

May 10, 2023 10:18:33 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I think (hope?) I am just posting out of anger right now, but I'm sensing states and municipalities don't actually have the right to pass and implement their own laws and ordinances as long as someone out there sues because they don't like it. Especially with this court of shitheads. Like, can anyone in this country sue DeSantis and the FL legislature for Don't Say Gay? Or sue any states banning books or drag shows?

And even when every other amendment never struck me as absolute, somehow that pesky second one seems to be impervious.

You're not far off in this. So, I'm coming from just what's going on in the Texas legislature right now. Texas HB 3137 would prohibit municipalities from creating a law that would require individuals to hold liability insurance if they own guns. Those in opposition of the bill think this is a slippery slope to removing the authority of cities to establish their own laws. 

I think we're seeing cities being stripped of their ability to make laws and I see this supreme court case as an issue of violating the rights of states. Obviously, NAL. 

[TR]

May 10, 2023 12:19:17 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

May 10, 2023 11:51:23 GMT -5 somersault72 said:

If at any point a fucking gun becomes more important to me than human beings, just take me out, ok? Because I can't imagine what it's like to feel that way and I don't ever want to know. It's honestly hard for me to put sentences together right now.

I mean, aren't we there already?  When there is a mass shooting pretty much daily and people are killed for ringing a doorbell or shopping at the mall, I think it is clear guns are valued more than human life.

I think she meant personally, not, like, society overall.

[noodleoo]

May 10, 2023 14:32:29 GMT -5 TR said:

May 10, 2023 12:19:17 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

I mean, aren't we there already?  When there is a mass shooting pretty much daily and people are killed for ringing a doorbell or shopping at the mall, I think it is clear guns are valued more than human life.

I think she meant personally, not, like, society overall.

Oh you're right!  I missed the "to me", reading fail.  

[Michelle]

May 10, 2023 8:31:11 GMT -5 mpm said:

We need to expand the Court. I don’t see any way around it.

Before the end of the summer, at this rate.

[sonrisa]

May 10, 2023 12:27:53 GMT -5 mpm said:

May 10, 2023 12:19:17 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

I mean, aren't we there already?  When there is a mass shooting pretty much daily and people are killed for ringing a doorbell or shopping at the mall, I think it is clear guns are valued more than human life.

They don’t keep making phone calls. They don’t keep emailing their representatives.

Well, Some people do. A lot of people give a damn. Where you have a concentration of such people, the gun laws reflect it.

That is why you have representatives proud of their F rating from the NRA and working so hard for gun control. That is why you have diversity in the state laws. 

Which is exactly what this would overturn. The ability of those legislatures to reflect their constituents and for state laws to put in such restrictions.

[mpm]

May 10, 2023 15:10:52 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

May 10, 2023 12:27:53 GMT -5 mpm said:

They don’t keep making phone calls. They don’t keep emailing their representatives.

Well, Some people do. A lot of people give a damn. Where you have a concentration of such people, the gun laws reflect it.

That is why you have representatives proud of their F rating from the NRA and working so hard for gun control. That is why you have diversity in the state laws. 

Which is exactly what this would overturn. The ability of those legislatures to reflect their constituents and for state laws to put in such restrictions.

It must be really nice to live in a place where your state’s laws reflect the majority opinion of its citizens. Truly.

[sonrisa]

May 10, 2023 15:26:25 GMT -5 mpm said:

May 10, 2023 15:10:52 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Well, Some people do. A lot of people give a damn. Where you have a concentration of such people, the gun laws reflect it.

That is why you have representatives proud of their F rating from the NRA and working so hard for gun control. That is why you have diversity in the state laws. 

Which is exactly what this would overturn. The ability of those legislatures to reflect their constituents and for state laws to put in such restrictions.

It must be really nice to live in a place where your state’s laws reflect the majority opinion of its citizens. Truly.

I'm not pretending there is traction on all important issues. And I tend to get a more tepid response when I call to point out police violence *is* gun violence.

But gun regulation laws gets more positive calls locally than NRA backed laws (specifically because of education campaigns over a decade ago pointing out how vocal the NRA and how their single issue voters get an outsized voice).

[mpm]

May 10, 2023 15:35:03 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

May 10, 2023 15:26:25 GMT -5 mpm said:

It must be really nice to live in a place where your state’s laws reflect the majority opinion of its citizens. Truly.

I'm not pretending there is traction on all important issues. And I tend to get a more tepid response when I call to point out police violence *is* gun violence.

But gun regulation laws gets more positive calls locally than NRA backed laws (specifically because of education campaigns over a decade ago pointing out how vocal the NRA and how their single issue voters get an outsized voice).

That’s cool. My point is just that it’s wrong to assume that there are unreasonable gun laws in some states because that reflects the majority will of the people. Votes on state laws here are called to committee vote with about ten minutes’ notice to avoid any potential for dissent, news coverage, or opportunity for a rallied opposition. If you live in a state with reasonable gun laws, you probably also live in a state with a reasonable democratic process for enacting all your state and local laws.

[sonrisa]

May 10, 2023 15:44:36 GMT -5 mpm said:

May 10, 2023 15:35:03 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

I'm not pretending there is traction on all important issues. And I tend to get a more tepid response when I call to point out police violence *is* gun violence.

But gun regulation laws gets more positive calls locally than NRA backed laws (specifically because of education campaigns over a decade ago pointing out how vocal the NRA and how their single issue voters get an outsized voice).

That’s cool. My point is just that it’s wrong to assume that there are unreasonable gun laws in some states because that reflects the majority will of the people. Votes on state laws here are called to committee vote with about ten minutes’ notice to avoid any potential for dissent, news coverage, or opportunity for a rallied opposition. If you live in a state with reasonable gun laws, you probably also live in a state with a reasonable democratic process for enacting all your state and local laws.

I don't think anyone ever said or thought that? I'm pretty sure I said the opposite - that the NRA has had an outsized voice for a while. Even here when I said in a previous post "hey - maybe watch out for the unsecured guns" I was slapped down with a "lots of people have that - it's not a big deal." So clearly there are plenty even here for whom this shit feels normal.

I think I'm going to step away. If you all want a little schadenfreude gloating that this shit may become national and mandatory, and want to pretend nothing could ever make a difference then have at it. 

[pixy0stix]

May 10, 2023 9:06:48 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Me, waiting for smug liberals in blue states* to realize that state borders won’t save them….

*not referring to anyone here, just the “that’s what you get for living in a red state” sentiments of the past forever

Does this happen? I've never, in my personal and internet history, seen this happen. There's a general acknowledgement that gun laws at this point are just for show because of the sheer volume of guns in this country.

[seeyalater52]

May 10, 2023 16:11:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

May 10, 2023 9:06:48 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Me, waiting for smug liberals in blue states* to realize that state borders won’t save them….

*not referring to anyone here, just the “that’s what you get for living in a red state” sentiments of the past forever

Does this happen? I've never, in my personal and internet history, seen this happen. There's a general acknowledgement that gun laws at this point are just for show because of the sheer volume of guns in this country.

I mean… yes? I have seen it lots and lots of times in my personal and professional life, on the internet and also not on the internet. It isn’t exclusive to gun laws or even primarily about gun laws, but the sentiment that folks in blue states can just legislate these problems away individually and everyone who lives in red states is ignorant and/or in favor of their worse laws should just move… it is extremely pervasive. At the end of the day regardless of the issue we are all in this together, and we are all in this under the same corrupt fucked up Supreme Court that we should ALL be invested in changing, and no I don’t think that’s something that a lot of blue state liberals truly believe.

[mpm]

May 10, 2023 16:24:54 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

May 10, 2023 16:11:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Does this happen? I've never, in my personal and internet history, seen this happen. There's a general acknowledgement that gun laws at this point are just for show because of the sheer volume of guns in this country.

I mean… yes? I have seen it lots and lots of times in my personal and professional life, on the internet and also not on the internet. It isn’t exclusive to gun laws or even primarily about gun laws, but the sentiment that folks in blue states can just legislate these problems away individually and everyone who lives in red states is ignorant and/or in favor of their worse laws should just move… it is extremely pervasive. At the end of the day regardless of the issue we are all in this together, and we are all in this under the same corrupt fucked up Supreme Court that we should ALL be invested in changing, and no I don’t think that’s something that a lot of blue state liberals truly believe.

Agree. And it’s not just guns. Abortion, healthcare, education, etc.

[erbear]

May 10, 2023 8:33:35 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Yes, this seems like a brilliant idea after coming off two mass shootings last week. Just brilliant.

Seriously. I read an article today praising some cop for shooting the mall shooter “after only four minutes”. He killed 8 people in those four minutes. This is not heroism. This is a failure of the good guy with a gun.