Are you middle class?

[snapoutofit]

No. According to this calculator we are top 10%.

[was5]

Most surprising part of the article was that 60% of Americans say they have a 3-month emergency fund.

I am solidly in the middle class -
Your household is in the middle 40 percent of incomes in the United States.

For a household of 5 in the **** metro area, your income is middle class according to all three definitions.

Your household has a much higher income than most in your Zip code.

This all seems right to me. H and I live in our "starter" house we bought 17 years ago. I'm not surprised our HHI is high for our zip code, but housing is at least 50% higher the next zip code over (just a couple blocks) so middle class for our metro area.

It might seem like we would be in a good place with savings, but we are not. My income has more than doubled since we bought our house (but I took a pay cut for a few years that set me up for a promotion). Hs income is basically the the same as it was 17 years ago (there was a recession related layoff and some seasonal jobs in the mix but he's been at his current full time job for 4 years). Our number of household members has also doubled in that time. We have ramped up retirement savings the past few years and I plan to work until I'm 70, so we will figure out a way to make it work, but I anwered that we are not on track for retirement and we definitelydon't have a 3 month rainy day fund.

There were times 7-8 years ago that we were 2 months behind on our mortgage and used credit cards to buy groceries. I realize how lucky we are now when I think of how stressful those times were.

[ECB]

Jun 3, 2023 7:55:10 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

I fudged with the numbers, and $220k is still in middle class but $500 is in the top 5% nationwide.

And at face value, $220k seems like a massive amount of money to be considered MC.

you’re seeing $220k as middle? It’s coming up at top 10% for me. Unless I’m not understanding what you’re saying.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Jun 4, 2023 9:00:49 GMT -5 jobae1234 said:

Nope. High income. Top 5%.

I knew that. My DH still thinks we’re poor. It’s because he grew up super poor and he doesn’t have a reality-based view of finances. Basically no amount is ever enough, because it’s anxiety-based and not reality-based. So if I want to get a rise out of him, I tell him we’re rich.

Are we married to the same person?

Each of us, individually, makes a fair amount above the median income for our area. It took me ages to understand why he always thinks we're poor.

[goldengirlz]

Jun 4, 2023 11:26:15 GMT -5 ECB said:

Jun 3, 2023 7:55:10 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

I fudged with the numbers, and $220k is still in middle class but $500 is in the top 5% nationwide.

And at face value, $220k seems like a massive amount of money to be considered MC.

you’re seeing $220k as middle? It’s coming up at top 10% for me. Unless I’m not understanding what you’re saying.

Maybe she’s talking about her zip code/region?

As an aside, the percentages appear to be rounded. The calculator says $500k is 5% but $550k is 1%. In truth, $500k is probably like 2%-3% and to be in the 1% in 2023 you have to make at least $645k, according to an article I found (I looked it up because of this thread.)

It doesn’t really matter to the larger discussion, but I don’t think it’s intended to be that precise about specific income levels, if that’s how people are trying to use it.

[wanderingback]

Jun 4, 2023 11:26:15 GMT -5 ECB said:

Jun 3, 2023 7:55:10 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

I fudged with the numbers, and $220k is still in middle class but $500 is in the top 5% nationwide.

And at face value, $220k seems like a massive amount of money to be considered MC.

you’re seeing $220k as middle? It’s coming up at top 10% for me. Unless I’m not understanding what you’re saying.

I think it varies by region/zip code.
In mine it also showed that almost $200k was considered middle class. I think the range was from like 80k-190k.

[breezy8407]

"You probably aren't middle class"

Says top 10%. However, I don't feel that way. The zip code I live in has one of the highest household incomes in the state, so my perception is skewed feeling very below average compared to people that live here that we interact with.

[Jalapeñomel]

Jun 4, 2023 13:50:56 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Jun 4, 2023 11:26:15 GMT -5 ECB said:

you’re seeing $220k as middle? It’s coming up at top 10% for me. Unless I’m not understanding what you’re saying.

I think it varies by region/zip code.
In mine it also showed that almost $200k was considered middle class. I think the range was from like 80k-190k.

Yes, it varies by zip code. I put my parents zip code in, and I got a very different outcome (very LCOL).

[icedcoffee]

No I’m above MC. But I don’t feel like I am because of all my expenses.

(J/K—don’t flame me) 😂

[pumpkin]

I was UMC until I put in my zip code and then I dropped to just MC since I’m in a HCL area with lots of tech and other such jobs which doesn’t help the rest of us.

[Roc A Bee]

No. Top 20%. I am not totally surprised.

[bdubs419]

Top 5%. I guess not that surprising if I think about it realistically, but a good reminder. I hate admitting this, but I feel like we live in such a bubble that I often don’t feel like this. We are surrounded by people who “appear” to have it all.

[kershnic]

Jun 4, 2023 17:51:36 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Jun 4, 2023 13:50:56 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I think it varies by region/zip code.
In mine it also showed that almost $200k was considered middle class. I think the range was from like 80k-190k.

Yes, it varies by zip code. I put my parents zip code in, and I got a very different outcome (very LCOL).

I'm in a relatively LCOL area and 179,000 seemed to be the breaking point between all indicators pointing to not middle class and 2 out of 3 pointing to not middle class.  

[SwimDeep]

We're in the lower range of middle class for our area. I was surprised because we have good jobs, an efund, and some retirement savings so I feel solidly middle class.

We are in a HCOL area, and apparently most people who live here make a lot more than we do. Like... a LOT more 😅

[msmerymac]

No.

Although I am farther behind in savings/retirement than I’d like to be, we could still come up with money for emergencies.

[penguingrrl]

Jun 4, 2023 7:53:17 GMT -5 4speedy said:

I typed up a super long reply and then deleted it because it sounded super whiny.  The short version is that I’m surprised there was no mention of healthcare expenses in the quiz linked above.  We have a very good income and have enough savings to be worry-free IF we both didn’t have medical conditions that require close to $100k worth of medication a year between the 2 of us.  We have outstanding coverage through DH’s employer but run the risk of each of our required medications being denied if we had to go on Medicare when DH retires.  So while DH has a good income, he definitely has a “fuck, I can’t ever retire” mindset.  And I know this because my mom and sister carry the same genetic mutation as me.  My mom is on Medicare and my sister has Obamacare and they have nowhere near the same freedom I have to make medical decisions.  I get way better care at a much lower cost.  So we will be working forever for insurance coverage.  And I am so grateful we have that option.  But still, fuuuuuuck.

That’s a great point. We have objectively great insurance, but are still paying 4 figures a month in healthcare costs (copays, prescriptions, etc), which has a huge impact on our ability to save and live. If that weren’t a barrier our finances would be a lot more comfortable than they currently are.

[livinitup]

I think it’s a good start to use income and zip codes to classify income class but a few folks have mentioned some glaring omissions on financial health/wealth/class. It makes me feel like we are still speaking in graphs set in the 1980s. My H is a co-owner so his compensation package is more than income. Our health insurance costs are affordable (not to mention our family has manageable health care costs - super big thing to not factor), our internet is covered, even our family cell phone plan is covered. These are pretty big bills each month and if we are being honest, more requirements for modern living than luxuries. Not having these expenses hit our budget every month is HUGE but invisible.

[shauni27]

Jun 2, 2023 22:52:47 GMT -5 atlas said:

Your household has a middle-class income, but you do not have the short-term financial security associated with the middle class. Your income is higher than others in your Zip code and high for the [my city] area as a whole.

Middle-class finances, however, do not guarantee a specific middle-class lifestyle or the ability to pass it on to one’s children.



We're okay on retirement, but just not good on savings right now after doing some work on the house. we'll get it back up.

we have almost the same:

"Your household has a middle-class income, but you do not have the short-term financial security associated with the middle class. Your income is higher than others in your Zip code and very high for (our city) area as a whole."

Our retirement is on track (well, was before the shitty market right now, but I know that will change), but our savings is $0. If something awful happened we would either need to borrow from family or open a credit card. We are extremely house poor and as soon as I think we can start saving, something happens and wipes out anything we might have had saved up. 

Our household income is less than $150K.

[pixy0stix]

Jun 5, 2023 7:41:15 GMT -5 livinitup said:

I think it’s a good start to use income and zip codes to classify income class but a few folks have mentioned some glaring omissions on financial health/wealth/class. It makes me feel like we are still speaking in graphs set in the 1980s. My H is a co-owner so his compensation package is more than income. Our health insurance costs are affordable (not to mention our family has manageable health care costs - super big thing to not factor), our internet is covered, even our family cell phone plan is covered. These are pretty big bills each month and if we are being honest, more requirements for modern living than luxuries. Not having these expenses hit our budget every month is HUGE but invisible.

And, again, bills/debt etc don't factor into where you fall in class level. It is solely based on your earnings.

[livinitup]

Jun 5, 2023 7:46:28 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jun 5, 2023 7:41:15 GMT -5 livinitup said:

I think it’s a good start to use income and zip codes to classify income class but a few folks have mentioned some glaring omissions on financial health/wealth/class. It makes me feel like we are still speaking in graphs set in the 1980s. My H is a co-owner so his compensation package is more than income. Our health insurance costs are affordable (not to mention our family has manageable health care costs - super big thing to not factor), our internet is covered, even our family cell phone plan is covered. These are pretty big bills each month and if we are being honest, more requirements for modern living than luxuries. Not having these expenses hit our budget every month is HUGE but invisible.

And, again, bills/debt etc don't factor into where you fall in class level. It is solely based on your earnings.

Yes, and my point was that a not insignificant portion of my H’s “income” is invisible. It doesn’t show up in his income statement.

[goldengirlz]

Jun 5, 2023 8:31:25 GMT -5 livinitup said:

Jun 5, 2023 7:46:28 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

And, again, bills/debt etc don't factor into where you fall in class level. It is solely based on your earnings.

Yes, and my point was that a not insignificant portion of my H’s “income” is invisible. It doesn’t show up in his income statement.

I’m sure they ask that question in the surveys* though. Many (if not most) people in the highest income brackets aren’t getting there from base salary alone.

Presumably your tax return also reflects the whole picture too.

*(I tried looking up the methodology. It seems to be surveys.)

[dontlook]

Jun 5, 2023 8:31:25 GMT -5 livinitup said:

Jun 5, 2023 7:46:28 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

And, again, bills/debt etc don't factor into where you fall in class level. It is solely based on your earnings.

Yes, and my point was that a not insignificant portion of my H’s “income” is invisible. It doesn’t show up in his income statement.

I understand what you are saying. It doesn’t change our middle class lives but we feel much more comfort because of perks from H’s job. We get our groceries and much of our shopping at a 10% discount which is huge.

I think most people use expenses or perks as a way to say “but I don’t FEEL rich” which is silly. The numbers speak for themselves. But additional details when talking can be helpful understanding individual situations.

[picksthemusic]

We're solidly MC since we live in a HCOL area. We are UMC in our specific zip code, though.

[mrsd2006]

"You probably aren't middle class"

Your household is in the top 5 percent of incomes in the United States.

Your household has a much higher income than most in your Zip code (this part surprises me, with our zip code being known for million $$ plus houses)

That Zip code is high income for the Atlanta metro area, so comparisons with your neighbors may not give you a good sense of how you compare with your area as a whole.

[jeaniebueller]

Probably not

Top 20% in the US

a far higher income than most in our Zip code.

The way I think of it is, can we go out to eat/make a purchase/plan a reasonably priced vacation without too much financial planning and the answer is yes.

[notreal]

Oh definitely not, but inching up there.  I predict we will be in about two years.  

[bbdoll]

Middle class, but on the lower side of it. I'm kind of surprised by that. We don't struggle to pay bills or have what we need. I honestly would consider us more well off.

[Pilsy]

Jun 4, 2023 17:16:44 GMT -5 breezy8407 said:

The zip code I live in has one of the highest household incomes in the state, so my perception is skewed feeling very below average compared to people that live here that we interact with.

Ditto. 

I make a point of consciously telling myself, so many things and experiences aren't average or typical at all, even if they are very commonplace around here. 

[sarahsays]

I am middle class, but below the median for my area. That is partially skewed by my decision to live in a wealthy suburb in coastal Connecticut. If I lived in New Haven, I'd probably be closer to or above the median.

When I was married I was in the upper 5%.

[meanie]

Top 5 percent, but it doesn't feel like it. We have a small house, not-fancy cars, take local vacations, don't buy anything fancy....I haven't even gotten a real haircut in 5 years.

What we DO have is a mountain of medical debt, no access to credit, and no real savings outside of our retirement accts.

We are sloooowly working our way out of the hole, but it is frustrating sometimes feeling like we are so far behind where we should be.