COVID August - Vaccines, etc. @ Content

[wanderingback]

Sept 5, 2023 19:13:54 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Interesting article about long Covid and children

www.salon.com/2023/08/27/long-is-debilitating-children-and-doctors-worry-there-arent-enough-centers-to-treat-them/

I really don’t know what to do with info like this as an individual. Other than vaccines and masks at the individual level I feel like continuing to read about long covid doesn’t do anything helpful for me personally except add to the worry. I guess I just personally don’t find these articles very interesting at all

[tacokick]

Sept 5, 2023 19:44:06 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Sept 5, 2023 19:13:54 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Interesting article about long Covid and children

www.salon.com/2023/08/27/long-is-debilitating-children-and-doctors-worry-there-arent-enough-centers-to-treat-them/

I really don’t know what to do with info like this as an individual. Other than vaccines and masks at the individual level I feel like continuing to read about long covid doesn’t do anything helpful for me personally except add to the worry. I guess I just personally don’t find these articles very interesting at all

Not everyone is going to be interested in everything!

There have been very few articles (especially in popular publications) that address long Covid in children at all so this has been of great interest to the parents I know, especially as school is starting.

[wanderingback]

Sept 5, 2023 20:00:57 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Sept 5, 2023 19:44:06 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I really don’t know what to do with info like this as an individual. Other than vaccines and masks at the individual level I feel like continuing to read about long covid doesn’t do anything helpful for me personally except add to the worry. I guess I just personally don’t find these articles very interesting at all

Not everyone is going to be interested in everything!

There have been very few articles (especially in popular publications) that address long Covid in children at all so this has been of great interest to the parents I know, especially as school is starting.

Yes I understand that not everyone finds the same things interesting. I guess I just meant the multiple long covid articles you post not really sure what to do with that information to make it helpful on an individual level.

[tacokick]

Sept 5, 2023 20:19:58 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Sept 5, 2023 20:00:57 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Not everyone is going to be interested in everything!

There have been very few articles (especially in popular publications) that address long Covid in children at all so this has been of great interest to the parents I know, especially as school is starting.

Yes I understand that not everyone finds the same things interesting. I guess I just meant the multiple long covid articles you post not really sure what to do with that information to make it helpful on an individual level.

I, like many people, find having current information about Covid and how it is changing the lives of people around me both helpful and interesting. News of how the Covid situation is evolving informs the decisions and choices I (and others) make on a personal level all the time.

I would think that most people who are clicking on a thread about Covid are expecting some sort of discussion of Covid, article links etc but maybe not? I just scroll past things that aren’t of interest to me personally.

[wanderingback]

Sept 5, 2023 20:44:02 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Sept 5, 2023 20:19:58 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Yes I understand that not everyone finds the same things interesting. I guess I just meant the multiple long covid articles you post not really sure what to do with that information to make it helpful on an individual level.

I, like many people, find having current information about Covid and how it is changing the lives of people around me both helpful and interesting. News of how the Covid situation is evolving informs the decisions and choices I (and others) make on a personal level all the time.

I would think that most people who are clicking on a thread about Covid are expecting some sort of discussion of Covid, article links etc but maybe not? I just scroll past things that aren’t of interest to me personally.

Sorry I wasn’t being very clear. I read the articles but it seems like the multiple long covid articles are not providing me with new info, in general they’re still discussing that long covid is a problem and disabling people. So I have now learned my lesson to not click on them! Hopefully at some point there will be more breakthroughs.

I was trying to add to the conversation by saying I don’t know what else on a personal level I’m supposed to do and wondering out loud what others are doing in regards to long covid risk since there doesn’t seem to be specifics in regards to prevention and treatments. It just pretty much seems doom and gloom, so thinking out loud how others are dealing with that.

And out of curiously, do you have long covid? Is that why you post multiple articles about it specifically (as opposed to other topics/discussions related to covid). I am truly sorry if you do cause it sounds horrible.

[tacokick]

Sept 5, 2023 21:34:28 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Sept 5, 2023 20:44:02 GMT -5 tacokick said:

I, like many people, find having current information about Covid and how it is changing the lives of people around me both helpful and interesting. News of how the Covid situation is evolving informs the decisions and choices I (and others) make on a personal level all the time.

I would think that most people who are clicking on a thread about Covid are expecting some sort of discussion of Covid, article links etc but maybe not? I just scroll past things that aren’t of interest to me personally.

Sorry I wasn’t being very clear. I read the articles but it seems like the multiple long covid articles are not providing me with new info, in general they’re still discussing that long covid is a problem and disabling people. So I have now learned my lesson to not click on them! Hopefully at some point there will be more breakthroughs.

I was trying to add to the conversation by saying I don’t know what else on a personal level I’m supposed to do and wondering out loud what others are doing in regards to long covid risk since there doesn’t seem to be specifics in regards to prevention and treatments. It just pretty much seems doom and gloom, so thinking out loud how others are dealing with that.

And out of curiously, do you have long covid? Is that why you post multiple articles about it specifically (as opposed to other topics/discussions related to covid). I am truly sorry if you do cause it sounds horrible.

No, I’ve never had Covid.

I do try to post articles that have links to the newest studies and up to date information, I’m not posting the same links or studies over and over again.

Most of the new info coming out is about long Covid because millions are dealing with it. We’ve moved past the “how to prevent Covid” news cycle and posting about local grants for Covid prevention, testing center locations and school closings doesn’t make a lot of sense for an international message board.

I don’t see it as doom and gloom at all. I see it as being informed and a reminder to take action in my own community by facilitating mask use and test distribution and planning and participating in events that are as Covid cautious as possible.


I do a lot of volunteer work, regularly give public talks related to my career, do community organizing, run a social group etc and strive to make every activity I participate in or facilitate a safe place so everyone can feel comfortable participating. So many people I come in contact with are so happy when they see other people masking or there is a zoom option or a meeting is outdoors or it’s made clear there are mitigations and precautions being taken. Many people feel left behind and I try to alleviate that as much as I can. Knowing what issues people are facing helps me make better choices in my community.

[kiminky]

@@@ Something that I am worrying about is multiple Covid infections in young children. My granddaughter is 2 and 1/2 and now has Covid for the 2nd time. Picking it up from her parents who work outside the home. That worries me for such a young child.

[tacokick]

I just came across some details about the potential availability of the booster.


If anyone is looking for easy Covid action—

The CDC is meeting to discuss the new booster next week.

www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/covid-19-booster-shots-expected-as-early-as-next-week/ar-AA1gisGN


The docket: www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/08/25/2023-18288/advisory-committee-on-immunization-practices

You can leave a comment at the below link expressing that you’d like the updated booster to be available to the general public. Or share any other Covid concerns you may have. It’s open for two more days.

www.regulations.gov/docket/CDC-2023-0060/

The comment option should pop up after you click “browse document” and you can see other comments posted.

Right now, interviews with insiders have said it may only be available for those over 75 and those with certain conditions.

www.pbs.org/newshour/health/your-fall-guide-to-covid-rsv-and-flu-vaccines

“However, the updated booster is not intended for everyone. It’s for people in high-risk groups – those who are age 75 or older, pregnant or immunocompromised, said Offit, who serves on the FDA’s expert panel that reviewed the vaccine companies’ data. Individuals in this group, he explained, stand to benefit the most in part because they account for a disproportionate number of COVID hospitalizations and deaths.

The general public should not expect to need to receive the latest COVID booster, Offit said.”

Leaving a comment on the docket (or applying to speak) is your only direct way of potentially influencing the committees’ decision and make your interest in the updated booster known.

[underwaterrhymes]

I’m just so angry. I think the approach to the COVID pandemic will go down in history as a time when the government and most social safety nets utterly failed us.

[underwaterrhymes]

tacokick - thank you. I submitted a comment.

[wanderingback]

Sept 6, 2023 0:25:05 GMT -5 kiminky said:

@@@ Something that I am worrying about is multiple Covid infections in young children. My granddaughter is 2 and 1/2 and now has Covid for the 2nd time. Picking it up from her parents who work outside the home. That worries me for such a young child.

Yes exactly.

And I’m all for covid safer events but babies can’t mask and let’s be honest, unless you bunker in your home then you’re going to be exposed to covid at some point.

So with my comment above I was really wondering what people are doing on an individual level other than masks and vaccines to alleviate some worry? I’m generally not an anxious person so it’s not all time consuming but it doesn’t seem like there are great realistic options, but maybe I’m missing something.

[underwaterrhymes]

wanderingback - I think if you’re doing those things, you’re positioning yourself about as well as you can and are ahead of the game in comparison to a lot of others.

I keep tests on hand and test any time a member of our family is exhibiting symptoms, but I know we are in the minority. I’ve asked friends and family if they’ve tested when they have symptoms and their answer is almost always that it’s just a cold or allergies. 🤦🏻‍♀️

We mask in situations where there are crowds or in medical facilities, but I have admittedly scaled way back because I started feeling a definite social stigma wearing a mask at work and in other settings. This fall and winter, though, I’ll be masking again.

My youngest still masks at school because he feels safer that way, but it’s a cloth mask, so I’m not sure how effective it is. And my oldest has had a cold for the past 10 days. He stayed home a few days, but we are sending him with a mask to school because even though we know it’s not COVID (multiple tests), we don’t want to get other kids sick.

I really think the sense of community is what has been missing from this approach all along. The onus is on the individual to protect themselves rather than the idea that - as a society - we can protect each other. It’s deeply disappointing and it’s hard for people like you and me to feel like anything we can do alone is possibly enough.

[wanderingback]

Sept 6, 2023 6:37:46 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

wanderingback - I think if you’re doing those things, you’re positioning yourself about as well as you can and are ahead of the game in comparison to a lot of others.

I keep tests on hand and test any time a member of our family is exhibiting symptoms, but I know we are in the minority. I’ve asked friends and family if they’ve tested when they have symptoms and their answer is almost always that it’s just a cold or allergies. 🤦🏻‍♀️

We mask in situations where there are crowds or in medical facilities, but I have admittedly scaled way back because I started feeling a definite social stigma wearing a mask at work and in other settings. This fall and winter, though, I’ll be masking again.

My youngest still masks at school because he feels safer that way, but it’s a cloth mask, so I’m not sure how effective it is. And my oldest has had a cold for the past 10 days. He stayed home a few days, but we are sending him with a mask to school because even though we know it’s not COVID (multiple tests), we don’t want to get other kids sick.

I really think the sense of community is what has been missing from this approach all along. The onus is on the individual to protect themselves rather than the idea that - as a society - we can protect each other. It’s deeply disappointing and it’s hard for people like you and me to feel like anything we can do alone is possibly enough.

Yeah I still mask pretty much all places because it doesn't bother me. My partner has scaled way back on masking, which I understand because most people have and I can't police him. Thankfully all of my friends and family take things seriously and still offer to wear masks when they come over, so I do feel a sense of community with them. They're totally ok with it when I say I'd prefer to eat outside for meals and don't look at me funny when I put my mask on and they often still mask as well in the subway, etc. But yes the greater community outside of my bubble, it sucks. However, I guess overall in some ways it seems futile though because

@@@@@@@
I got covid for the first time while I was on maternity leave. The only places I had been were Physical Therapy, which I had been going to all through pregnancy and postpartum (everyone masked there) and then we had 3 people over for Christmas that all tested beforehand. 6 days after PT and 4 days after Christmas I had covid.
So it's like you can do most things "right" but it still can take just 1 exposure. Long covid doesn't care that you masked 364 days of the year. And I'm someone who worked with covid + patients from the beginning (I presume my immune system was weakened from the lack of sleep in the postpartum period and I think that made a big difference).

We're taking our daughter on 2 flights soon. To visit family and my best friend for the first time. Is that a bad idea? 
We take her on the train to see my parents, but an airport/airplane I believe is higher risk. Where is the line?
I'm usually an optimistic person so not sure why I feel so doom and gloom and futile at this moment when it comes to long term and long covid!

[underwaterrhymes]

wanderingback - ❤️ It’s hard. We do not live near family and so have to travel to see them. We have driven to Florida, as well as to DC / NYC and Central Illinois from Northern Illinois to see our loved ones. We also made the choice to fly to Costa Rica in 2021 to see H’s family. Everyone else was masking then too, so it made the decision a little easier for us. We have additional travel plans this year to see family and friends, and we will be flying. We will wear masks, but also know that the majority won’t be, which is discouraging. We are accepting that risk because we want to be able to see our loved ones.

This is why I’m so upset that they’ve done away with masking on public transportation and in public health settings. Vulnerable members of our community may not be able to mask. Seeing friends and family is important for mental health and I hate that making that decision may come at the expense of physical health. ❤️

[TR]

Just fucking let everyone have the new boosters. I doubt there’s going to be a shortage given how a lot of people are treating Covid. Jesus.

[Pilsy]

I was really hoping a combined covid/flu vaccine would be available by now. In fact, I could have sworn one of our doctors told us to hold off on a booster a bit back, because she expected it, too. Wishful thinking!

publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/looking-ahead-at-covid-flu-and-rsv-vaccines-for-fall-2023

[macmars45]

Sept 6, 2023 5:31:45 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

tacokick - thank you. I submitted a comment.

I did too. So thanks for the info tacokick.

[noodleoo]

tacokick, WTF?!? Are they really considering not making it available to all? I submitted a comment, although I browsed some other comments and there are a lot of crazies out there commenting as well. FUCK!

[TR]

Sept 6, 2023 9:17:12 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

tacokick, WTF?!? Are they really considering not making it available to all? I submitted a comment, although I browsed some other comments and there are a lot of crazies out there commenting as well. FUCK!

lol I was just coming to say this, some of those comments are WILD.

[wanderingback]

Sept 6, 2023 9:17:12 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

tacokick, WTF?!? Are they really considering not making it available to all? I submitted a comment, although I browsed some other comments and there are a lot of crazies out there commenting as well. FUCK!

I’m fairly confident that the newest booster will be fda approved for all adults. Now whether it is "strongly" recommended that’s another question but I would be very very very shocked if it were not fda approved for all adults. This may be a time where capitalism is in our favor. I doubt the drug companies would be spending so much money in to it if they weren’t going to be widely approved.

[tacokick]

Sept 6, 2023 9:17:12 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

tacokick, WTF?!? Are they really considering not making it available to all? I submitted a comment, although I browsed some other comments and there are a lot of crazies out there commenting as well. FUCK!

The FDA will probably approve it’s safety for all adults soon but the CDC is meeting on Sept. 12 to provide a recommendation on who will be eligible for the shots. So it’s sort of two separate issues going on back to back.

There is a lot of talk of the CDC only recommending the new booster for the elderly and other specific groups of people which can influence who can actually successfully get the vaccine at the individual level. For example if the CDC says it’s only for 65+ your insurance many not cover it if you are a “healthy” 35 year old, your pharmacy may not dispense it without proof of age or other need etc

[dulcemariamar]

I think the depressing thing about the Long Covid articles is that you can’t really do anything to protect yourself unless you búnker down in your house. The vaccine isn’t providing immunity that we had all hoped for and most people are not even masking anymore.

I would be more cautious but my child goes to school every day without a mask on because nobody wears a mask there. So it is basically accepting a doom and gloom outcome at this point

[wanderingback]

Sept 6, 2023 16:08:26 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

I think the depressing thing about the Long Covid articles is that you can’t really do anything to protect yourself unless you búnker down in your house. The vaccine isn’t providing immunity that we had all hoped for and most people are not even masking anymore.

I would be more cautious but my child goes to school every day without a mask on because nobody wears a mask there. So it is basically accepting a doom and gloom outcome at this point

Well at least I’m glad I’m not the only one :/

But my optimistic side tries to remember that of all the people I personally know closely, so far no one is suffering from serious long term effects that we know about right now. So I guess I can put my optimism hat back on for now…

[seeyalater52]

Sept 6, 2023 11:34:27 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Sept 6, 2023 9:17:12 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

tacokick, WTF?!? Are they really considering not making it available to all? I submitted a comment, although I browsed some other comments and there are a lot of crazies out there commenting as well. FUCK!

The FDA will probably approve it’s safety for all adults soon but the CDC is meeting on Sept. 12 to provide a recommendation on who will be eligible for the shots. So it’s sort of two separate issues going on back to back.

There is a lot of talk of the CDC only recommending the new booster for the elderly and other specific groups of people which can influence who can actually successfully get the vaccine at the individual level. For example if the CDC says it’s only for 65+ your insurance many not cover it if you are a “healthy” 35 year old, your pharmacy may not dispense it without proof of age or other need etc

This exactly. I 100% agree with wanderingback that there’s pretty much no scenario I can imagine where the authorization for all adults isn’t granted by the FDA (and I think it’s likely that it is authorized for most kids too), but without a CDC recommendation for everyone it is going to make actually accessing the vaccine much more difficult. It will impact who has supplies of vaccines (for example, if it’s approved but not recommended for kids will pedis bother stocking it? Will PCPs and pharmacies have stock to offer to all their patients or just order what they anticipate the recommended groups will need? Will insurance cover for age groups/situations where it isn’t recommended?) The privatization of the pandemic tools with the end of the PHE is a real and VERY serious problem.

And that’s before even addressing the millions and millions of people, many of them children, who have lost health insurance coverage over the past few months since continuous eligibility in Medicaid ended. Because the majority of these disenrollments are procedural, there isn’t any way to really verify that the people who lose coverage are no longer eligible and many people who will remain eligible are losing coverage for paperwork reasons (this is Esp true for kids.) It is a national crisis and the Biden admin has not handled it particularly well or acknowledged the full extent of how bad it is.

@@@
On a personal note, wanderingback I totally get what you are coming from. I do have anxiety about long covid and in particular the effects of repeated covid infections on kids who have their whole lives ahead of them. I fully admit I have a lot of baggage around health stuff for my kid because of our TTTC history and that plays a role too. And SO much is luck of the draw and right/wrong place at right/wrong time. I’ve absolutely been in situations where I’ve been potentially or definitely exposed to covid and not gotten it. Others with extremely minimal exposure have gotten covid with outdoor transmission or from a passing interaction with doordash or another delivery service.

This virus is a damn mystery - and in some ways it makes it interesting to little old me who is fascinated by epidemiology and vaccine development plus public health communications writ large. It’s a total special interest of mine so like tacokick I do read a lot of studies and try to stay up to date even though all the data is essentially pulling in the same direction so a lot of it isn’t totally “new” per se, but confirming earlier findings or generalizing them further or extending the period of time studied. I love when people post them here because I’m trying to minimize my own anxiety by not engaging quite as much in actively pursuing this information.

In terms of personal approach, I feel for wandering and everyone else who has kids too little to mask. I know a LOT of us have been there during various points in the pandemic and it was and is a really tough thing to navigate, especially with social pressure not to mask or take precautions and the need to have some semblance of normalcy for families and kids since the risks are not going away and the virus is still surging with some frequency. There’s very little you can do at the individual level with a baby and it sucks that other peoples’ refusal to take precautions is impacting little kids and high risk groups. It is easy enough to wear a mask on the plane so you aren’t breathing all over a tiny kid who is just trying to visit a grandparent or participate in a family trip or whatever. And yet here we are. Wandering you’re taking common sense steps to be safe AND you’re aware of the risks and weighing them in your decision making. That is better vantage point than like 99% of people in the world are operating from (including people who post here.)

We do masking - which we largely dropped during spring and summer when cases were relatively lower but always did in large crowds and indoors in crowded areas and on public transit - we are now starting up masking again with the uptick in cases. We test every single time we have symptoms and continue to test for a responsible window of time afterwards to be sure we are giving it our best shot to identify positives and positives prevent spread in our household and out in the world. We choose outdoor activities when we can, especially for dining, and encourage our friends/family/coworkers etc to do so as well when they’re with us. I have made some progress on ensuring that there are some mitigations at conferences and meetings my employer hosts, although it isn’t perfect - so there is at least SOME effort to allow those who are more vulnerable or anyone who just wants to avoid getting sick the opportunity to have a safer than baseline experience (providing masks and rapid tests, asking people to test before travel and to wear masks in transit, having options for outdoor dining or takeout containers at meals and not scheduling working meals so people don’t have to eat in a ballroom. It’s not perfect but it’s small things I can do and I do occasionally cite studies or info on covid as it comes out to justify why we are STILL doing this because it’s become a bit counterculture even in more progressive circles and a lot of people just aren’t paying close attention anymore.

[seeyalater52]

Sept 6, 2023 16:08:26 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

I think the depressing thing about the Long Covid articles is that you can’t really do anything to protect yourself unless you búnker down in your house. The vaccine isn’t providing immunity that we had all hoped for and most people are not even masking anymore.

I would be more cautious but my child goes to school every day without a mask on because nobody wears a mask there. So it is basically accepting a doom and gloom outcome at this point

This is just my own opinion, but my child also goes to daycare without a mask. It’s a major exposure point for our family. We do mitigate risks in other ways though, and I do think it is worth doing if avoiding long covid (or even just illness in general) is a priority. I think probably too many people have an all or nothing approach that the risks we can’t mitigate cancel out the ones we can and the virus is just not that discerning. I figure any potential exposure points I avoid or people I avoid accidentally infecting is probably worth it while cases are rising the way they are.

[hermione]

Offitt has been against all of the boosters though, right? The rest of the panel has disagreed with him. I guess I assume the same will happen this time.

[seeyalater52]

Sept 6, 2023 21:21:20 GMT -5 hermione said:

Offitt has been against all of the boosters though, right? The rest of the panel has disagreed with him. I guess I assume the same will happen this time.

He is an outlier for sure and he always likes to run his mouth to the media.

He doesn’t worry me so much as this is a major showdown between pharma (they want it to be recommended so they can sell more vaccines, especially now that the govt isn’t guaranteeing that they’ll buy doses) and insurance companies, which would really prefer not to pay for people to get any sort of medical treatment because it eats into their profits. It’s anyone’s guess how that will shake out but there are powerful interests on both sides.

As with all things CDC it’s a little bit politics, a little bit big business lobbying, and a medium pinch of science.

[waverly]

Sept 6, 2023 16:39:57 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Sept 6, 2023 16:08:26 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

I think the depressing thing about the Long Covid articles is that you can’t really do anything to protect yourself unless you búnker down in your house. The vaccine isn’t providing immunity that we had all hoped for and most people are not even masking anymore.

I would be more cautious but my child goes to school every day without a mask on because nobody wears a mask there. So it is basically accepting a doom and gloom outcome at this point

Well at least I’m glad I’m not the only one :/

But my optimistic side tries to remember that of all the people I personally know closely, so far no one is suffering from serious long term effects that we know about right now. So I guess I can put my optimism hat back on for now…

@@@@this is what I was going to say.  I know one person that has long Covid and that was more the lung damage.  They are progressing and getting better.  But most people that got Covid do not have long Covid.   There are some things that are outside my control, and I have accepted that contracting Covid despite precautions might be outside out control, for example, we got Covid from an outside activity.  So really these kinds of articles are more for parents to recognize signs of long Covid and treat appropriately at that time.  If there are not Covid treatment centers, I am confident that our Children's hospital specialties will work together for treatment, and I think they may be researching this matter since they are a research hospital.  My takeaway is to be proactive as a parent and seek out a diagnosis.  The sooner they are in treatment the sooner they can improve.  

[jaylea]

According the Your Local Epidemiologist, Offit has no influence over ACIP and the PBS article created a lot of stress and controversy for no reason.

She addressed in her comments on today’s post.

yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/state-of-affairs-parent-edition/comments

[nothingcontroversial]

Sept 7, 2023 10:50:36 GMT -5 jaylea said:

According the Your Local Epidemiologist, Offit has no influence over ACIP and the PBS article created a lot of stress and controversy for no reason.

She addressed in her comments on today’s post.

yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/state-of-affairs-parent-edition/comments

I'm really surprised that PBS published an article that pretty much amounted to clickbait.