Assets and end of life care

[simpsongal]

Stan I ready your response in the voice of Lt Dan and it was even better - we just watched that movie w/the kids, good times. And I texted a former colleague about a jacked up situation at our old office and he sent me a gif of Lt Dan weathering the storm on the shrimp boat [chef's kiss].

jobae1234 whether it's overpriced b/c it's a profit business, that's one thing. But it seems a lot like daycare. It's insanely expensive, and the folks taking care of the kids/older folks are not paid enough. I wish there was a way to spread the expense like an insurance program. A lot of folks have mentioned LTC insurance. LTC isn't what it used to be - if you were one of the lucky ones that got in early, good for you. But otherwise, the price has gone through the roof.

[mslhb]

I recently lost my mom who was in a nursing home for 5 years. My dad passed away 10 years ago and my moms health really struggled after he was gone. My parents had set up a long term care insurance policy when I think they were around 55. This policy covered the entire cost of my mom’s monthly facility payment. It also allowed us the flexibility to choose the right place for her since we weren’t tied to choosing from only places that accepted Medicaid. My DH and I will be setting up a similar policy. Taking care of aging parents is an emotionally, physically and financially difficult process. Everyone needs to do what is best for their own family.

[wildrice]

Aug 18, 2023 15:32:39 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

Stan I ready your response in the voice of Lt Dan and it was even better - we just watched that movie w/the kids, good times. And I texted a former colleague about a jacked up situation at our old office and he sent me a gif of Lt Dan weathering the storm on the shrimp boat [chef's kiss].

jobae1234 whether it's overpriced b/c it's a profit business, that's one thing. But it seems a lot like daycare. It's insanely expensive, and the folks taking care of the kids/older folks are not paid enough. I wish there was a way to spread the expense like an insurance program. A lot of folks have mentioned LTC insurance. LTC isn't what it used to be - if you were one of the lucky ones that got in early, good for you. But otherwise, the price has gone through the roof.

Regarding LTC insurance - yes. I briefly looked into it the other day and it sounded like it would be at least 5k a year for my H and I to carry it. I guess we technically could make that happen if we made major sacrifices to our entertainment/travel/etc budget - but that's really hard to do when we're alive now and who knows if we'll be alive at some point 40-50+ years from now to even benefit from it. Also we still owe 90k in student loans and don't have nearly enough saved for retirement so... it's just not something we can prioritize. And we are far better off financially than like 80% of Americans so I don't imagine it's realistic for many people to carry it.

Universal healthcare, y'all. Including elder care. We need it.

[wanderingback]

Aug 19, 2023 17:29:27 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Aug 18, 2023 15:32:39 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

Stan I ready your response in the voice of Lt Dan and it was even better - we just watched that movie w/the kids, good times. And I texted a former colleague about a jacked up situation at our old office and he sent me a gif of Lt Dan weathering the storm on the shrimp boat [chef's kiss].

jobae1234 whether it's overpriced b/c it's a profit business, that's one thing. But it seems a lot like daycare. It's insanely expensive, and the folks taking care of the kids/older folks are not paid enough. I wish there was a way to spread the expense like an insurance program. A lot of folks have mentioned LTC insurance. LTC isn't what it used to be - if you were one of the lucky ones that got in early, good for you. But otherwise, the price has gone through the roof.

Regarding LTC insurance - yes. I briefly looked into it the other day and it sounded like it would be at least 5k a year for my H and I to carry it. I guess we technically could make that happen if we made major sacrifices to our entertainment/travel/etc budget - but that's really hard to do when we're alive now and who knows if we'll be alive at some point 40-50+ years from now to even benefit from it. Also we still owe 90k in student loans and don't have nearly enough saved for retirement so... it's just not something we can prioritize. And we are far better off financially than like 80% of Americans so I don't imagine it's realistic for many people to carry it.

Universal healthcare, y'all. Including elder care. We need it.

I obviously agree we need universal healthcare and don’t know the exact numbers for what that would cost tax payers. But I do think it’s interesting that you say you can’t save/spend 5k per year because of entertainment and travel, but say we need universal health care. If we had universal health care I guarantee all of us would be making less money and in my opinion 5k per year to guarantee long term care is a pretty good deal. Where do people realistically think money for universal health care will come from?

Where I live has high taxes and everyone thinks it’s pretty wild to live here and pay such high taxes but I do feel like we get a lot for our money…public transportation, public health services, public hospital/clinic care for people without insurance including those who are undocumented, free composting, robust family planning services, free abortion care and the list goes on.

[wildrice]

Aug 19, 2023 22:15:56 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Aug 19, 2023 17:29:27 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Regarding LTC insurance - yes. I briefly looked into it the other day and it sounded like it would be at least 5k a year for my H and I to carry it. I guess we technically could make that happen if we made major sacrifices to our entertainment/travel/etc budget - but that's really hard to do when we're alive now and who knows if we'll be alive at some point 40-50+ years from now to even benefit from it. Also we still owe 90k in student loans and don't have nearly enough saved for retirement so... it's just not something we can prioritize. And we are far better off financially than like 80% of Americans so I don't imagine it's realistic for many people to carry it.

Universal healthcare, y'all. Including elder care. We need it.

I obviously agree we need universal healthcare and don’t know the exact numbers for what that would cost tax payers. But I do think it’s interesting that you say you can’t save/spend 5k per year because of entertainment and travel, but say we need universal health care. If we had universal health care I guarantee all of us would be making less money and in my opinion 5k per year to guarantee long term care is a pretty good deal. Where do people realistically think money for universal health care will come from?

Where I live has high taxes and everyone thinks it’s pretty wild to live here and pay such high taxes but I do feel like we get a lot for our money…public transportation, public health services, public hospital/clinic care for people without insurance including those who are undocumented, free composting, robust family planning services, free abortion care and the list goes on.

I'm all for a tax increase! And Maryland is one of the highest tax states, too. But I don't think providing universal LTC would cost most taxpayers 5k per year. Though I would be much more agreeable to that kind of cost if it meant everyone had equal access to good care... Not just myself and my H! It seems like a lot to cover just two people in their early 40s.

[wanderingback]

Aug 19, 2023 22:38:49 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Aug 19, 2023 22:15:56 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I obviously agree we need universal healthcare and don’t know the exact numbers for what that would cost tax payers. But I do think it’s interesting that you say you can’t save/spend 5k per year because of entertainment and travel, but say we need universal health care. If we had universal health care I guarantee all of us would be making less money and in my opinion 5k per year to guarantee long term care is a pretty good deal. Where do people realistically think money for universal health care will come from?

Where I live has high taxes and everyone thinks it’s pretty wild to live here and pay such high taxes but I do feel like we get a lot for our money…public transportation, public health services, public hospital/clinic care for people without insurance including those who are undocumented, free composting, robust family planning services, free abortion care and the list goes on.

I'm all for a tax increase! And Maryland is one of the highest tax states, too. But I don't think providing universal LTC would cost most taxpayers 5k per year. Though I would be much more agreeable to that kind of cost if it meant everyone had equal access to good care... Not just myself and my H! It seems like a lot to cover just two people in their early 40s.

$2500/person per year is not a lot at all. Let’s say you paid that from age 40-80, that’s $100,000. Let’s say a conservative estimate is that long term care is $8,000/month. That $100,000 would only last a little less than a year. I’ve seen estimates that universal healthcare could equal a 20-25% tax on income. So totally feasible that people would be paying $5,000/month.

Overall my point was that $2500/person per year is not that much money for many of us on these boards to get long term care insurance when many long term care places cost $10,000-$20,000 per month.

[sadlebred]

wanderingback but for others of us, it's a significant chunk of change.

I got LTC insurance about 8 years ago. It doesn't cover much, but it will cover something. It's best to get it when you are young(ish) if you can. It might be cheaper. You'll pay more in the long run, but it's more affordable per year.

[wanderingback]

Aug 20, 2023 16:02:45 GMT -5 sadlebred said:

wanderingback but for others of us, it's a significant chunk of change.

I got LTC insurance about 8 years ago. It doesn't cover much, but it will cover something. It's best to get it when you are young(ish) if you can. It might be cheaper. You'll pay more in the long run, but it's more affordable per year.

Yes I know that. But I generally know OPs income based on what she has said and she said she couldn’t pay that due to entertainment and travel, not that she was living paycheck to paycheck. Obviously if you had posted the same thing my comment would’ve been entirely different. I don’t think $2500 a year is a lot of money for long term care coverage but I know plenty of people can absolutely not afford that.

[ssmjlm]

I'm with wanderingback, here. Your posts are not limited to one board, if you're posting on another board about some $$$ expenditures and then balking at LTC costs, seems disingenuous.

[quesyrah]

Aug 17, 2023 13:04:04 GMT -5 jobae1234 said:

I know end of life care is expensive, but is it overpriced? When you consider housing, food, furniture, activities, utilities, taxes, round the clock nursing staff and aides, doctors, mental health services, front desk staff, accountants, marketing teams, someone to coordinate funerals and with families, pharmacists… who’s to say that doing all that well doesn’t cost $16,000/mo?

If there’s an exposé somewhere I’d like to see it, to understand better.

It’s absolutely not, especially when it comes to memory care. My parents facility was worth every penny.

[wildrice]

Aug 21, 2023 11:44:52 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

I'm with wanderingback , here. Your posts are not limited to one board, if you're posting on another board about some $$$ expenditures and then balking at LTC costs, seems disingenuous.

Come on. I think we all know how money works - you have to pick and choose what you can spend it on. You can't do everything. I specifically said it was entertainment/travel that we'd need to cut back on, not that we are too broke to afford it. Perhaps I make it sounds like we have more money than we actually do because I feel a little guilty that we are able to have some of the privileges we do. We also chose to live in a townhouse, share a single, eight year old car, and not have children specifically so that we could do things like go on a couple of trips per year and buy (nosebleed or lawn) concert tickets when something we want to see comes to town. Not so we can afford even more insurance payments.

Right now LTC is not a financial priority for us, especially since it's not unlikely we will die before we will benefit from it. Something like 10% of Americans carry LTC so we're hardly alone in not prioritizing it. I AM surprised that I seem to be in the minority for thinking that 200k+ per year for care is outrageous and that universal coverage for it would be a net positive for society. If that makes me disingenuous so be it, I guess.

ETA: I guess this is a little emotionally charged for me, too, because my grandma is currently completely miserable in the home she lives in. I think she is safely cared for, but she is also bored, lonely, and confused pretty much 100% of the time and I don't think that any amount of money could fix that. It sucks that she's paying a fortune to be kept alive and unhappy when she and everyone else would rather she could die peacefully in her sleep and be put out of her misery. Maybe I will have a different perspective once she is gone, but right now it sounds like a tragedy for myself to reach that point in my life and then pay more than our current HHI each year to support staying alive. It is ALSO kind of a hard idea to swallow that we should cancel one of our two trips this year to buy LTC insurance so that 50 years from now we can live like my grandma is right now. 

[quesyrah]

I agree that 200K is outrageous for one person. I live in a HCOL area and even though I was paying about $16K a month that was for 2 people in memory care and my mom needed the highest level of care they offered as she was a paraplegic.

I would see if you can find another facility she would he happy with because I can’t imagine that’s a standard cost for one person.

ETA: regarding your update…maybe you need to come to terms with dementia? She may not be bored and unhappy because the facility is not good or not taking care of her properly, it may just be her dementia speaking. When I was going through a season where I couldn’t visit my parents as often as I wanted I found some volunteers who would go and sit with them and visit. My parents had no idea who they were but again….dementia. Maybe your family can find some volunteers to go and sit with your grandma.

[wildrice]

Aug 21, 2023 13:25:02 GMT -5 quesyrah said:

I agree that 200K is outrageous for one person. I live in a HCOL area and even though I was paying about $16K a month that was for 2 people in memory care and my mom needed the highest level of care they offered as she was a paraplegic.

I would see if you can find another facility she would he happy with because I can’t imagine that’s a standard cost for one person.

ETA: regarding your update…maybe you need to come to terms with dementia? She may not be bored and unhappy because the facility is not good or not taking care of her properly, it may just be her dementia speaking. When I was going through a season where I couldn’t visit my parents as often as I wanted I found some volunteers who would go and sit with them and visit. My parents had no idea who they were but again….dementia. Maybe your family can find some volunteers to go and sit with your grandma.

Thanks! That's interesting that that was the cost for 2 people vs just the one person in my grandma's case. It's one of the best systems in the Chicago metro area so perhaps that's the norm there? I don't know. 

As far as anything to do with my grandma's actual care, my aunt has completely taken over everything and nobody else has a say (which is a whole other issue). I think finding a volunteer is an excellent idea, but my aunt will never allow it unless she thinks of it herself. It's causing a rift in my extended family that will probably never be put back together, which especially sucks because she's always been my favorite aunt but she has been really shitty to my mom about things so I kind of feel like I've lost her along with my grandma. I really wish that I, my sisters, and mom lived locally to my grandma and could just go see her on a regular basis - but we are all a flight away. It's very painful to know that my beautiful grandmother is just wasting away the last years of her life and we aren't there to make them any less miserable for her. Perhaps my anger about the cost stems from my general frustration with the whole thing. Sorry for the emotional dump here, lol.

[wanderingback]

Aug 21, 2023 11:44:52 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

I'm with wanderingback, here. Your posts are not limited to one board, if you're posting on another board about some $$$ expenditures and then balking at LTC costs, seems disingenuous.

Eeek, I think my point is getting confused!
I was not trying to dictate what OP spends her money on and think there’s nothing wrong with her not wanting to spend her extra income on LTC insurance.

So in summary-

1) I know $2500/year is a lot of money for some people
2) I only chimed in because OP said she couldn’t afford $2500/year, while at the same time wanting universal healthcare which I assume would cost more than $2500/year in taxes
3) $2500/year is not a lot of money considering that long term care can cost $10,000-$15,000 per month which I think is generally reasonable since you’re getting a roof over your head, meals and some type of medical and well being supervision

[tacokick]

One thing about LTC insurance to keep in mind is that the company has to agree to pay out when you want to use it. I’ve known of two families where the elderly parents couldn’t live alone anymore or take care of themselves but the LTC insurance they had been paying into didn’t feel like they met the criteria for it to pay for the care. The major reason one got denied because while they couldn’t manage living at home without help, they didn’t require any long hospital stays prior to trying to access the benefit so it was denied.

Some of the criteria can be very specific and counter intuitive — like demonstrating that you are already receiving the care from an accepted professional that you are now asking the insurance to cover.

There are a lot of articles about this online and how difficult it can be to access your benefits/the appeal process etc and how wildly the coverage can range company to company and state to state.

I don’t think there are any great solutions here TBH. LTC coverage is probably better than nothing but I don’t think it’s always as great as it sounds on the surface.

[TR]

I think on the whole most financial people don't recommend taking out LTC insurance because the amount you pay in could likely be more than the benefit you'd receive and you're better off just saving that money yourself.

[fn2187]

At a potential cost of $196,000 a year for LTC facility, I plan to have out parents move in with us when it gets to that point. I don’t know if I’m being naive that it will work. I know they have voiced it’s their preference. I did it once but it wasn’t long term. We absolutely would have some in home care.

But I have completely different thoughts on what I’d want when I’m that age and my kids would have to make a decision.

[letsgetweird]

Wealthy people should be buying LTC insurance. I doubt most of them (or their family) would want them in a Medicaid facility.