@ Article about social media for teenagers

[Velar Fricative]

NYT's The Morning newsletter (which I've read) summarizes a longer article (which I haven't read yet) that followed three teenage girls for a year to look at their use of social media.

Gift link for the newsletter piece

Gift link for the full article

I'm glad the newsletter link mentioned the old moral panics because I try to compare to those when I think about the negatives of social media in hopes that it's just yet another thing the modern-day olds rail against but then again...social media *is* different because as the newsletter piece cited, teenage mental health has deteriorated since smartphones/social media whereas they did not during the previous cited moral panics. But, I acknowledge there could be other causes too (the Great Recession started about 15 years ago, for starters). For now social media/smartphones seem like the primary culprit though, IMO. 

I have a soon-to-be 10-year-old daughter and I am dreading this. Like, social media has negative impacts on *me* that are clear as day, as a 41-year-old. This is why I rarely use Instagram and won't sign up for TikTok (thanks for knocking me off Twitter, Elon...but Facebook still possesses my soul, sigh). And DH is a middle school teacher who sees the anecdotal evidence of the negative impacts. So I'd want to protect my kid from that but then I'd basically be stunting socialization too. The only way I can see change happening is if there's a growing movement from teens themselves eschewing or dramatically limiting social media use, but I'm almost positive that won't/can't happen. 

[DotAndBuzz]

Haven’t read the articles yet, but Writing from my sample size of 2 here.

Holding back on social media won’t stunt their social development. I’m a firm no on tik tok for myself and both my girls (age 12 and 15). No Instagram or Snapchat till 13. I allowed Pinterest at 12, but truly nothing social media until then. It’s still limited to an hour a day through screen time limitations, although we’re going to open it up for my oldest when she turns 16 (self regulation is much better, and they have to learn to enforce their own limits before you turn them loose at 18 ).

The older one pushed back HARD on this, especially when she was around 10/11, but I held firm and she survived with all her friendships in tact. Younger one is perfectly happy to watch dog videos and closet organizing hacks on Pinterest, and hasn’t even brought up other apps.

Lisa Damour has a couple great podcast episodes about this. I’ll link them when I can get to a desktop.

[fancynewbeesly]

We are an anti-social media for kids family. DD1 (who is 12) has no interest or care in it. Like she doesn't see the appeal (which is good!). I would say it is pretty evenly split of her friends that have it versus the ones that don't. She definitely doesn't feel a social impact of not having it. Most of the time she is on her phone she is playing math or word games or looking up cheats for Nintendo games. Mixed with dog and craft videos.

I think by personality-DD2 will push back a lot harder on the social media rule. Just because of her nature. With DD1 you could tell her no and then valid reasons and she would agree and completely drop it. For example when she was playing Roblox when she was 11, she was still following the rule that she couldn't chat with friends on it--that I made when she was 6. She didn't questioned it again, just kept following it until I realized it. DD2 is NOT like that at all. She questions every no and keeps asking every single time.

[Deleted]

I’m a lurker. I skimmed the article. I have 2 teenage girls and a tween boy.

I was a hard no on social media for my oldest, except she had TikTok because I allowed her to get musical.ly when she was in middle school and then it turned into TikTok. Anyway, I was a no on insta and snap. Apparently there is a major shift in how kids communicate around 8th grade. They go from texting to only using Snap. My oldest told me this repeatedly and I didn’t fully understand and continued my hard stance. Well, when she got to high school, burner phones are easy to come by for a few bucks or maybe free from a well intentioned friend saving you from your totally unreasonable parents. My kid bought herself a burner phone so she could feel included since she was completely shut out with texting only. She had it for quite a while before we found out about it. She’s 17 now, I’ve given her a lot more autonomy over her phone at this point. She’s has given me so much grief as far as getting around every parental control I’ve ever put in place. We’ve really been through the wringer with her in a lot of ways. It’s been better since she was diagnosed with ADHD and we started treating that.

My middle daughter started saying the exact same things about the communication shift in the summer before 8th grade. This time I listened and allowed Snap. She’s a totally different kid than her older sister. She hasn’t put us through the wringer and hasn’t found ways around all the parental controls, maybe because I’ve approached it with a less hard line stance that is more balanced so she doesn’t feel like she has to go around me. She wants TikTok and that is the one I think is actually the absolute worst so that’s still a no.

My 11 year old son doesn’t even have a phone yet, but he spends plenty of time on the most ubiquitous social media out there, YouTube. We haven’t decided when he will get a phone yet, probably not until he’s 13 or 14. He’s paying for his sisters’ mistakes I guess you could say. He also has severe ADHD and is so immature that it would go poorly, I’m sure of it.

My oldest developed tics in the fall of 2020, along with millions of other teen girls. The culprit behind the sudden spike was it was trending on tiktok. When my oldest needed to be in patient due to mental health the psychiatrist told me that they could predict what kinds of conditions they would see come in for teens in any given week based on what was trending on TikTok. So I really think somehow TikTok is the absolute worst for teenagers.

[abs]

I haven’t read the article yet but I think so much of this is personality based.

DD is nearly 13. Her having a phone has actually been a great thing! She has more freedom to make her own plans and has much deeper friendships now. Social media though? Nope. Tik Tok seems to be the main one her friends use. DD doesn’t like it and has no desire. She has asked for instagram because she wants to follow her favorite baseball players. I will probably allow it at some point but not yet. Once I do there will be rules in place like being friends with me. She knows that.

It’s all hard but not as scary as I was led to believe. Before ever giving her a phone we set (lots) ground rules. That’s been the most important thing.

[DotAndBuzz]

Episode with the surgeon general about loneliness, and social media:
drlisadamour.com/a-conversation-with-u-s-surgeon-general-dr-vivek-murthy/

One specifically about TikTok:
drlisadamour.com/encore-should-i-kick-my-kid-off-tiktok/

How/when to give a kid a smartphone:
drlisadamour.com/encore-how-and-when-do-i-give-my-kid-a-phone/

[pixy0stix]

As soon as I saw the title I knew the post would have anecdotes for replies with no one reading the article.

[eddy]

I will also add my experience to the discussion.

For context- 11 year old no social media.

15 almost 16 year old- 1 hour of snap and instagram a day. Limits were put in place after a lesson learned. A lot of school progtams use these applications. Thst was actually how we said yes to instagram.

Tldr version- teen got caught in a phising scam involving exchanging pics with a random person over instagram. That person pulled the usual, pay us money or we will share with your friend group. He did the right thing, woke my husband and showed him. With H’s cool head it all got fixed. But this is another part that is not talked about much. Temptation with kids who don’t yet have impulse control. There are a lot of tragic stories surrounding this scenerio. Also there is a lot of shame so people don’t talk about it. But it is scary. It scared us when it happened and thankfully we learned as a family. It is cruel this happens to kids and there is limited recourse.

[sent]

Sept 21, 2023 10:33:36 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

As soon as I saw the title I knew the post would have anecdotes for replies with no one reading the article.

I won't get around to reading the articles until much later tonight.

I'll save my anecdotes until then. 

[Velar Fricative]

I needed to read during my lunch break! I'm done now.

First, omg I'm so stupid that I didn't even think about TikTok having an actual website lol.

During the main article I found myself trying to compare their situations to yesteryear, and a lot of it does sound familiar as teenage girl angst. But I couldn't help but think about just how much those phones/apps really impact their daily lives. Like, even the one girl not on SnapChat can't get away from it. That's the scary part and I guess I'd be naive to think that my kids not using those apps means they can avoid that nonsense.

[gardengal]

I read the article.

I trend Luddite in my home & personal devices & completely believe kids should not have full-access to social media. I don't think it's great for your average kid's mental health & I think the article supports that. There's obviously plusses to smartphones & social media (the self-help TikTok that helped Addi, being able to communicate with friends) but there's also so many minuses.

I am a mom to a teen boy & a tween boy. The teen (very sensitive, introverted) has access to an old phone of ours for when he's at a club & will need a ride home he can call us or if he's free ranging around the neighborhood & we can check in with him. The only game is tic-tac-toe & he's not allowed social media until he's 16. The phone lives in the charging station when he's not out of the house & we have access to his texts (and I do periodically check them). We will likely keep up this arrangement until he complains.

My tween (extroverted & also sensitive with over-developed sense of justice) is definitely more social & outgoing so I foresee the system we've used with his older brother not working as well or as long. I am, however, very firm on no social media until 16. So far, he's content with just calling friends on his iPad.

Honestly, I know I have it easy. I do think smartphones are extremely problematic and that navigating them & the technology that goes with them to keep my kids healthy (both sleep & mental health), connected, and safe is one of my least favorite parts of being a parent. I am *so glad* I wasn't a child in the smartphone era!

[gardengal]

Sept 21, 2023 11:47:59 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I needed to read during my lunch break! I'm done now.

First, omg I'm so stupid that I didn't even think about having an actual website lol.

During the main article I found myself trying to compare their situations to yesteryear, and a lot of it does sound familiar as teenage girl angst. But I couldn't help but think about just how much those phones/apps really impact their daily lives. Like, even the one girl not on SnapChat can't get away from it. That's the scary part and I guess I'd be naive to think that my kids not using those apps means they can avoid that nonsense.

YES! It's all so insidious & everywhere. I really, really wish the ages to sign up would be increased. It won't stop everything (I know a 9yo with their own tiktok account their parents made for them) but it could help. 

[breezy8407]

I read the Morning earlier and read the full article. Thanks for the gift link.

This is one area of parenting that gives me the most anxiety because it seems like I am making the wrong decision no matter what. 11 y/o DS and DD. We have lots of rules and security controls set up currently and are no on any social media. They can't just be on their phone anytime and have to ask, but usually its just watching YouTube. DS rarely texts, mostly just to make plans with friends. He says his friends all have Snap. DD is way different. Her sports teams all have group chats and she texts a lot more. She claims all her friends have Snap and TikTok. The only one she's asked for is Be Real and I am still a no on it. I've told them both why we don't allow SM, especially Snap and TikTok. H is worried they are missing out since it seems like most kids use Snap to communicate.

Personality driven for sure, as I could see DD being the one to be smart enough to evade us with hidden apps.

[breezy8407]

Sept 21, 2023 11:47:59 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I needed to read during my lunch break! I'm done now.

First, omg I'm so stupid that I didn't even think about having an actual website lol.

During the main article I found myself trying to compare their situations to yesteryear, and a lot of it does sound familiar as teenage girl angst. But I couldn't help but think about just how much those phones/apps really impact their daily lives. Like, even the one girl not on SnapChat can't get away from it. That's the scary part and I guess I'd be naive to think that my kids not using those apps means they can avoid that nonsense.

Exactly. I know when DD is with her friends that have these apps, they are on them together. 

[abs]

Got a chance to read the article. Thanks for the link Velar Fricative!

Yep what Anna says rings very true. DD gets more like 1-2 hours of homework of night in advanced classes. Manages several activities. Most of her school stress is self imposed but she truly enjoys the classes and activities. She and her friends rely on each other for vent sessions and homework help. That is the positive side of phones and honestly the most important to her. The downside is the group texts and DD has a self imposed rule that she will leave them basically immediately because she hates drama. Like 3-4 girls? Fine. The big giant ones? Nope. The being exposed to things from TikTok against your will? Big downside. The constant grade updates? General technology downfall.

I will say most of DD's life seems very similar to 30 years ago. Down to the music she listens to and the clothes she wears. She is more self confident than I ever was. So thankful for great friends and teachers that believe in her for that. While kids now want to fit in (or rebel against--which is DD) with the right clothes and social media in the 90s it was the right clothes and staying up to date with TV shows/movies. Embarrassing things still made the rounds through chatter and passed notes. Social media is definitely a new layer but the junior high experience is still the same. Kids trying to find their way and find who they are and are unsure how to do it. It's a hard time and I don't know how to avoid the self confidence drop.

[pugz]

loved the interactive article! Make me laugh an made me sad too. 2-4 hrs of homework a night at 13, uggh.

[aspentosh]

Sept 21, 2023 11:57:59 GMT -5 gardengal said:

Honestly, I know I have it easy. I do think smartphones are extremely problematic and that navigating them & the technology that goes with them to keep my kids healthy (both sleep & mental health), connected, and safe is one of my least favorite parts of being a parent. I am *so glad* I wasn't a child in the smartphone era!

I literally had a mini-breakdown this weekend about this with H. I told him I hated that aspect and not that I *regretted* being a parent, but I don't think I'm made to parent in this day and age. He is much looser with technology rules (though not SM) whereas I definitely mirror my mom more and it's exhausting... and DD doesn't even have a phone yet! 

[aspentosh]

I think it's really telling that in the article Addi said she takes occasional breaks for her mental health. I do the same for a variety of reasons and it really speaks volumes to the underlying issues I have with SM in general. Sure, it can be great to connect but so often it's used as a barometer for popularity or importance and I HAAAAATE that.

I was really proud of Anna for the conversation she had with her friend that was "kidding" with her. Why is that a thing, though? A "friend" of my DD's does this and I hate it. I don't remember making fun of my friends.

Anyway. DD (11) uses her iPad and is in a group chat with a bunch of 6th grade girls from her school. They send photos and share things and DD often says "why do they text that they are on the bus? who cares?" and I know that mentality will change, but I still feel woefully unprepared for social media. I enjoyed the article and really appreciated the look over a year.

[mrspez07]

I read the short and skimmed the longer piece.
I know they did the article as kind of an “extreme” case scenario but I wish they’d followed at least one boy. I think social media use is vastly different between male and female-identifying teens, as is the social pressure to be part of it.

[goldengirlz]

If we want to talk big picture about the data, my H is not totally convinced that the mental health findings are causative. It’s also possible that girls who are already predisposed to certain mental health conditions are more likely to seek out certain apps and communities, and also be heavier users of social media. There’s been research that shows that social media delivers a dopamine hit, and therefore could be a way to self-soothe. One of the researchers even said that it may not be social media per se that’s the problem but the fact that it takes away from other activities: www.today.com/today/amp/tdna160683

Many of the mental health problems now being seen were also under-diagnosed when we were kids. My mental health wasn’t on anyone’s radar in the ‘90s but I went through significant depression when I was 15 and spent most of my lunch periods in the school library reading books about anorexia … fiction, textbooks, whatever I could get my hands on. That was my #thinspo at the time (and no one was doing research on the mental health of heavy library users).

But anyway — back to anecdotes — despite all this, my middle schooler doesn’t even have a phone yet (though they complain they’re the last kid in the grade without one.) I’m strongly smartwatch-only for now.

[Jalapeñomel]

It’s interesting that there’s no discussion of YouTube (did I miss it?), especially how so many children and tweens use it as a precursor to SM.

[goldengirlz]

Sept 23, 2023 6:38:47 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

It’s interesting that there’s no discussion of YouTube (did I miss it?), especially how AP many children and tweens use it as a precursor to SM.

YouTube is absolutely social media. And YouTube Shorts is basically TikTok (in fact, most of the videos are cross-posted.)

But YouTube can also be used more like TV, where you passively consume videos (granted, with algorithms that feed you any content that will keep you on the app). It’s both exactly like the others and also kind of its own thing — which gets back to the broader discussion about what exactly is harmful about social media?

[pixy0stix]

Sept 23, 2023 6:38:47 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

It’s interesting that there’s no discussion of YouTube (did I miss it?), especially how AP many children and tweens use it as a precursor to SM.

Now that you mention it, it is bizarre. Maybe because the girls in the article don't use it? Or count it as tv or something? It's by far and away the largest platform that teens use - www.pewresearch.org/internet/2022/08/10/teens-social-media-and-technology-2022

[abs]

As someone else said YT is more passive. You can view problematic things but you generally aren’t experiencing social repercussions from it.

[Jalapeñomel]

Sept 23, 2023 9:33:51 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Sept 23, 2023 6:38:47 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

It’s interesting that there’s no discussion of YouTube (did I miss it?), especially how AP many children and tweens use it as a precursor to SM.

YouTube is absolutely social media. And YouTube Shorts is basically TikTok (in fact, most of the videos are cross-posted.)

But YouTube can also be used more like TV, where you passively consume videos (granted, with algorithms that feed you any content that will keep you on the app). It’s both exactly like the others and also kind of its own thing — which gets back to the broader discussion about what exactly is harmful about social media?

Sept 23, 2023 10:30:20 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Sept 23, 2023 6:38:47 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

It’s interesting that there’s no discussion of YouTube (did I miss it?), especially how AP many children and tweens use it as a precursor to SM.

Now that you mention it, it is bizarre. Maybe because the girls in the article don't use it? Or count it as tv or something? It's by far and away the largest platform that teens use - www.pewresearch.org/internet/2022/08/10/teens-social-media-and-technology-2022

Yes, I’m wondering if they don’t consider it SM because it is unique to other SM platforms (and often it’s cross posted to TikTok and IG). But so many kids start watching YouTube at such a young age, and it absolutely has very problematic content.

[goldengirlz]

Sept 23, 2023 11:31:43 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Sept 23, 2023 9:33:51 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

YouTube is absolutely social media. And YouTube Shorts is basically TikTok (in fact, most of the videos are cross-posted.)

But YouTube can also be used more like TV, where you passively consume videos (granted, with algorithms that feed you any content that will keep you on the app). It’s both exactly like the others and also kind of its own thing — which gets back to the broader discussion about what exactly is harmful about social media?

Sept 23, 2023 10:30:20 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Now that you mention it, it is bizarre. Maybe because the girls in the article don't use it? Or count it as tv or something? It's by far and away the largest platform that teens use - www.pewresearch.org/internet/2022/08/10/teens-social-media-and-technology-2022

Yes, I’m wondering if they don’t consider it SM because it is unique to other SM platforms (and often it’s cross posted to TikTok and IG). But so many kids start watching YouTube at such a young age, and it absolutely has very problematic content.

It was a genius (and insidious) business strategy to get kids hooked early with YouTube Kids, with the illusion of parental controls.

Theoretically, problematic content is all over the internet. But I do think there’s something unique about social media — but is that “something” the social validation, the endless scroll, the algorithms, the fact you often know the people posting? Is it the putting yourself out there? Or just the hours and hours people spend in front of it?

OTOH, social media can also be a support system for some kids, like LGBTQ+ kids who might not have social or family support in their IRL communities.

I think the research raises more questions than it answers at this point. And while the article does try to get at that, reading it, I was a bit like, okay? Teenagers are being teenagers. It made me wonder to what extent social media is creating new problems or putting a funhouse mirror on existing ones.

[pugz]

I also think the fact that young teen girls are receiving d*ck pics and being solicited for nude pics could play a role in the mental health issue. I knew very little about body parts and sex before I was 15 and dated a guy that was all too eager to educate me on all the things I didn't know.

and don't get me started on youtube. We are a YT free house.

[erbear]

I appreciate this article. SM for kids scares the crap out of me — I feel like you can monitor and talk to your kids and encourage good habits and still, they do dumb shit that could impact their lives. I wish I knew how to convince kids that talking to strangers on the internet isn’t a good plan, but short of getting rid of Instagram (which is the primary way my kid communicates with friends and kinda friends), I’m at a total loss. It’s scary.

[erbear]

Sept 23, 2023 19:49:27 GMT -5 pugz said:

I also think the fact that young teen girls are receiving d*ck pics and being solicited for nude pics could play a role in the mental health issue. I knew very little about body parts and sex before I was 15 and dated a guy that was all too eager to educate me on all the things I didn't know.

and don't get me started on youtube. We are a YT free house.

This is my hill to die on. Every year, I’ve got girls on my classroom either crying bc some dude shared their pics or horrified by pics they’ve received. Boys badger them constantly for pictures. It’s so gross and so hard for them to navigate — they want to just say no, but the pressure is intense.

[sent]

I finally read the articles. I'd like to read something like this on the boys.

My older one just started middle school. I'm ok with not giving her a phone but then I have painful flashbacks to when my parents were overly strict about everything and allowed me zero freedom and zero social life when I was 13. Through my mom-network research, I learned that the soon, the kids will stop going through the moms and instead use text messaging to communicate social get togethers with each other. I don't want DD to miss out on this if it's important to developing friendships. There is a FB group I follow called something like "Wait until 8th" that has a list of phones on their website that don't have internet access. I suppose I could get her one of those when the time comes. My office manager gave her DD a phone for her 8th birthday recently and I just bit my tongue and smiled.

I do like the compliments I periodically receive over time when people notice at a social gathering that my kids are doing old-fashioned things to stay entertained like reading a book, coloring, or just being bored while the other kids are all buried in their phones. Maybe it's a little selfish of me, but I'm going to do my best to stay strong.

This article is a good reminder that I can be much better about my own phone and internet use around the kids.