Curious about CEPs take

[Pom]

A friend was invited to a last minute work meeting on site for a client. This friend works very closely with other attendees that will be at a mixer, meetings, convention etc over 2 days. Tonight was introduction to everyone. This friend, let’s call him/her Chris, meets all the people in the client work group as well as the former owner of the client company. Tonight’s mixer is being held at this former owner’s ranch. He walks directly up to Chris (never met Chris) and says something completely derogatory to Chris about Chris’ appearance. Chris has on appropriate work attire. Chris is there with coworker, a sales person, and instead of making a scene, Chris collects car keys and heads away from the mixer of about 15 people, all who heard the exchange. Chris is not tolerating disrespect. Also at this person’s horse ranch, the location of the mixer, has a horse manure pit labeled Obama Library. Chris peaced out of the whole show and is waiting for the next leg of the evening. What say you, CEP, was this right or wrong or some other assessment?

[Deleted]

Without knowing exact details, I think it sounds reasonable for Chris to remove themself from a situation where they are being actively insulted.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Definitely weird for sure. Is Chris non-white by chance?

[UMaineTeach]

I think it was a good choice to leave.

I would have some hope that any current employees would apologize tomorrow, but not hold my breath.

I would also hope that the company would leave the former owner in the past, but also not hold my breath.

I’m not sure about the direction I would go in for tomorrow if I were Chris. I’m thinking stick to the business meetings and not do social events. Even if connections are made mostly at the social events, it’s clear that the company isn’t interested in connecting with Chris.

[Pom]

Oct 2, 2023 18:17:07 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Definitely weird for sure. Is Chris non-white by chance?

No

[StrawberryBlondie]

Oct 2, 2023 18:34:50 GMT -5 Pom said:

Oct 2, 2023 18:17:07 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Definitely weird for sure. Is Chris non-white by chance?

No

Ok.... here were my thoughts. If Chris is either female or a racial minority, removing oneself was likely necessary as I'd be concerned about physical safety.

If neither of those apply, I still think removing oneself was a good decision because this situation sounds incredibly uncomfortable even without having to worry about one's safety.

[gardengal]

Wtf is wrong w people?! Are manners not a thing anymore?! If you don’t have anything nice to say to a guest in your home….don’t speak.

Chris absolutely has the right to leave. Frankly, I probably would have said something but sometimes it’s better to just keep your mouth shut.

[AJL]

Right or wrong of who? Chris? Chris wasn't wrong at all. They were harassed by the location host and felt uncomfortable at the event. I think it was reasonable for Chris to leave. I don't tolerate disrespect either and I'd have left in this siltation (per the current details), too. 

[Bad Dingo]

Absolutely fine that they left and I wouldn't fault them if they'd called out the disrespect and gross political statement.

They should feel free to contact HR about all of that and that the other employees just went along with it.

[Pom]

I was trying to give good advice and I was just incredulous that a host, at a professional event, would conduct themselves in such a manner. Disgusting behavior. Chris’ coworker did apologize. It’s not something that should be tolerated. They are in a new location, offender is not there. A current employee of the client came to Chris and said he almost quit because of the man’s behavior before he sold the company. This is not just a one time lapse of judgement. People can be so vile. How do they become successful with that kind of terrible demeanor.

[pixy0stix]

Fuck it, I would have left on Chris' behalf as well.

[pixy0stix]

Oct 2, 2023 19:05:07 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

They should feel free to contact HR about all of that and that the other employees just went along with it.

There's this, too. Not one person said anything?

[Pom]

Oct 2, 2023 19:55:00 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oct 2, 2023 19:05:07 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

They should feel free to contact HR about all of that and that the other employees just went along with it.

There's this, too. Not one person said anything?

It didn’t sound like it. That is also horrible.

[Pom]

It sounds like this offensive person is still on the board with the client company and someone high up in the org was told or was there…that’s unclear. But it is to be “addressed”. Chris believes this also may or may not be just talk to placate Chris in the moment.

[goldengirlz]

I read this like five times and still don’t understand what we’re supposed to be judging as right or wrong.

Are you asking whether Chris was in the wrong for leaving? Because to me/everyone that answer should be crystal clear.

[wanderingback]

Oct 2, 2023 20:34:43 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

I read this like five times and still don’t understand what we’re supposed to be judging as right or wrong.

Are you asking whether Chris was in the wrong for leaving? Because to me/everyone that answer should be crystal clear.

Agreed! All the backstory was rather confusing and seems unnecessary. Of course if someone says something offensive it is ok to leave.

[jlt19]

I can see why Chris may be questioning their self.

This isn’t the former owner/board member of Chris’s employer. This is the former owner/board member of Chris’s employers client. It also sounds like this is a pretty big client for the company. So I could (unfortunately), see that Chris is worried that their boss will side with the client and not Chris. It’s all about money in the end.

What if this client makes up 80% of the employers revenue? Do they stand up for Chris and risk going out of business? How many people lose their jobs then? It’s kind of a philosophical question if you peel back the layers a bit.

Obviously we all know what the right thing is to do. Chris did it and the company should back them up. Doesn’t mean it’ll happen because again, all about money.

[Pom]

Oct 2, 2023 20:34:43 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

I read this like five times and still don’t understand what we’re supposed to be judging as right or wrong.

Are you asking whether Chris was in the wrong for leaving? Because to me/everyone that answer should be crystal clear.

I wanted to make certain I provided advice that was helpful to a friend who was upset. If there was additional advice to offer, in such a situation, I was open to relaying it.

[Pom]

Oct 2, 2023 20:57:00 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

I can see why Chris may be questioning their self.

This isn’t the former owner/board member of Chris’s employer. This is the former owner/board member of Chris’s employers client. It also sounds like this is a pretty big client for the company. So I could (unfortunately), see that Chris is worried that their boss will side with the client and not Chris. It’s all about money in the end.

What if this client makes up 80% of the employers revenue? Do they stand up for Chris and risk going out of business? How many people lose their jobs then? It’s kind of a philosophical question if you peel back the layers a bit.

Obviously we all know what the right thing is to do. Chris did it and the company should back them up. Doesn’t mean it’ll happen because again, all about money.

This is why I provided the background. I understand it was confusing. I was trying to assist in real time. I feel terrible it didn’t seem anyone in the moment was there to help or intervene. Chris was reaching out to me to ask how to move forward as this was the beginning of the time there with clients.

[MixedBerryJam]

It sounds like they left pretty instantly and I don't begrudge that at all, but do we know that none of the other people there didn't say anything, even after they'd had time to gather their thoughts after? If in fact the coworkers didn't do jackshit, I'd at least be dusting off my resume if not already out th door, depending on finances.  Is Chris a member of a protected class?

[mcppalmbeach]

I don’t know about anyone else here, but I’m so curious about the nature of the insult. Like how do you walk up to someone you are hosting that you don’t know and insult them?

I would support Chris and let them know they did the right thing. I’m not sure I would be that brave. I’ve definitely been in similarish predicaments and I can’t manage myself so good for Chris.

[goldengirlz]

Oct 2, 2023 20:57:00 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

I can see why Chris may be questioning their self.

This isn’t the former owner/board member of Chris’s employer. This is the former owner/board member of Chris’s employers client. It also sounds like this is a pretty big client for the company. So I could (unfortunately), see that Chris is worried that their boss will side with the client and not Chris. It’s all about money in the end.

What if this client makes up 80% of the employers revenue? Do they stand up for Chris and risk going out of business? How many people lose their jobs then? It’s kind of a philosophical question if you peel back the layers a bit.

Obviously we all know what the right thing is to do. Chris did it and the company should back them up. Doesn’t mean it’ll happen because again, all about money.

These are the sorts of details that might have been important to have — but the OP doesn’t mention of any of them.

If Chris didn’t want to make a scene, they could have excused themselves to go to the restroom and then snuck out once people were engrossed in conversation. Everyone probably would have forgotten about the exchange in about 10 minutes, especially if they were all just sort of milling about (as opposed to seated at a table), because that’s how these things go.

But — I’m also in the camp that it’s not Chris’s responsibility to safeguard the jobs of their coworkers. At most their responsibility might be to make a graceful exit and let HR sort out the consequences.

As far as retaliation against Chris, their recourse would depend on what the comment was, company policy and state/local laws — so we don’t have enough to go on.

[eddy]

I also need to know the power dynamics of people involved before I will judge the coworkers for doing anything. I am still not clear who the offender was. A client? Powerful client? And everyone else. What are their roles? Interns or CEO?

Chris was justified to do what they did. Everyone else, I have no clue what is going on to make a judgement.

[pixy0stix]

Y'all, if what was said was bad enough that someone had to leave, then it was bad. All of the rest (power dynamics, etc) doesn't matter. Whoever was senior at the event should have stepped in. There's ways to demand professional treatment of yourself and staff without burning things down.

[msmerymac]

My guess is that it might have been about gender presentation, but regardless, Chris was obviously right.

It also sounds like the former owner of the company is still involved, but also not accountable to anyone (assuming he's sold the company and is like owner emeritus or something?) which means he gives no fucks, so Chris really had no other choice. I'm surprised Chris's coworker didn't leave either - assuming there could be professional implications for the employees of the client's company, I'm a bit more sympathetic.

[seeyalater52]

Oct 3, 2023 9:00:19 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

My guess is that it might have been about gender presentation, but regardless, Chris was obviously right.

It also sounds like the former owner of the company is still involved, but also not accountable to anyone (assuming he's sold the company and is like owner emeritus or something?) which means he gives no fucks, so Chris really had no other choice. I'm surprised Chris's coworker didn't leave either - assuming there could be professional implications for the employees of the client's company, I'm a bit more sympathetic.

I might be projecting, but this is also my guess based on the info provided (and the info not provided) - either gender identity or sexual orientation or nexus between the two. If so, I actually think what the offensive comment was and how people responded to it in the moment is could be pretty tricky for Chris to navigate. Not to mention intense and charged considering…. Everything happening politically and legally.

Plus there is a high likelihood that if it’s related to sexual or gender identity that this could be further confused by a sort of complacency or tolerance of bigoted anti-queer behavior as a semi-valid and understandable type of bigotry that we can’t expect people to have necessarily let go of. In my experience it makes bystanders a lot less likely to recognize, validate, and combat discriminatory comments or incidents in the moment.

A lot of speculation but I think would be relevant if it is the case for this situation .

[somersault72]

Oct 2, 2023 19:52:24 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Fuck it, I would have left on Chris' behalf as well.

Yep. I'm not in a line of work that is reliant on commission/sales etc but given only the information provided this is black and white to me.

[AAM2012]

I’m not understanding how the Obama horse poo really has anything to do with this specific scenario …

[pixy0stix]

Oct 3, 2023 22:40:33 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

I’m not understanding how the Obama horse poo really has anything to do with this specific scenario …

Because the offender is a MAGA nut. She's giving context without spelling out the entire situation.

[pixy0stix]

Oct 3, 2023 10:37:29 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Oct 3, 2023 9:00:19 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

My guess is that it might have been about gender presentation, but regardless, Chris was obviously right.

It also sounds like the former owner of the company is still involved, but also not accountable to anyone (assuming he's sold the company and is like owner emeritus or something?) which means he gives no fucks, so Chris really had no other choice. I'm surprised Chris's coworker didn't leave either - assuming there could be professional implications for the employees of the client's company, I'm a bit more sympathetic.

I might be projecting, but this is also my guess based on the info provided (and the info not provided) - either gender identity or sexual orientation or nexus between the two. If so, I actually think what the offensive comment was and how people responded to it in the moment is could be pretty tricky for Chris to navigate. Not to mention intense and charged considering…. Everything happening politically and legally.

Plus there is a high likelihood that if it’s related to sexual or gender identity that this could be further confused by a sort of complacency or tolerance of bigoted anti-queer behavior as a semi-valid and understandable type of bigotry that we can’t expect people to have necessarily let go of. In my experience it makes bystanders a lot less likely to recognize, validate, and combat discriminatory comments or incidents in the moment.

A lot of speculation but I think would be relevant if it is the case for this situation .

Ding ding! Which I think other people in this thread also know and why there's the wishy washy "but what were the power dynamics, and oh gosh what if it hurts OTHER people".