Ethnic cleansing of Palestinians (@ mentions)

[fryjack2]

I think LaLadypoet has been engaged in this thread the same way many others have.

There are a handful of posters responding and engaging in this thread relative to the number of posters who post in CPE in general, which may be what she means.

She may see the silence in other places and feeling as though this thread has some quietness (in number of different posters or pace) to it. I see it in my own personal and work life and my town’s Fb page. Someone posted an incredibly racist anti Palestinian joke and no one called him out. Thousands of members are in it. Three days later someone did and got slammed and accused of being a hamas supporter. Someone else posted an event that gave opportunity to anyone to share grief and come Together over the last month’s events. One person responded that “Israel was attacked.” As if no one should express grief unless it’s for Israeli lives. Someone else said they no longer feel safe in our town because of posts like that that are antisemitic. Not shockingly, no comments after those two.

So I am seeing a lot of silence in spaces that aren’t usually silent about almost any other topic. I imagine others are as well.

This discussion has been fairly civil and I urge us to try to extend some grace in our responses to all as emotions are heightened. We could all use some extra kindness right now.

[wildrice]

Nov 6, 2023 11:38:44 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

So I am seeing a lot of silence in spaces that aren’t usually silent about almost any other topic. I imagine others are as well.

Yes- I have noticed this on my Facebook. I went to the protest in DC on Saturday. I gave a lot of thought to posting specific pics on FB and wrote a message along with the pictures. I got exactly 3 responses to my thread - likes two from friends who are from Libya and one from my mom. In comparison to most other things I post, I was really surprised by the lack of engagement. I expected at least a few comments from others who were upset or wished they had been able to attend, or at least some likes in solidarity. I mean I didn't share my post for likes - I shared it to make my stance on the situation clear and to share some more "on the ground" images than what I'd seen on TV. But I found the silence pretty loud, especially in comparison to most other things I've posted on FB recently. (I did get a little more engagement on IG, at least).

So much that it made me wonder if FB is filtering posts on this topic - I'd love to know if any of you who I'm connected with on FB saw my post in your feed? 

I'll also add that at the protest, there were other white people - but not nearly as many as I would have hoped. Most of the protesters appeared to have ancestry somewhere in the middle east or were Black. IMO this is a great example of a time when white folks need to show up.  

All that said, I don't know that I'd take lack of continued posting in this thread as lack of engagement on this board specifically. I've donated to aid organizations, sent messages to my representatives, and attended a protest, but I haven't posted in here in a few days. I just don't have much new to say and think there is a fine line on social media between posting to share information and posting to appear engaged or to feel good about yourself that you "did something". 

[Deleted]

Re: silence.

I think the main reason for my relative silence is that I don’t feel like I have new information or sentiments to share. Misinformation? It’s out there in abundance and it’s horrible and people need to stick to verified sources. Humanitarian crisis? It’s heartbreaking. I see so much suffering and so many atrocities being committed, by and toward multiple groups. If this was an easy problem to solve, it would have been solved already. I don’t know that I see any clear paths forward, but every day I hope and pray that the civilian suffering eases and eventually stops.

[icedcoffee]

My silence is definitely not for lack of caring. I check this thread multiple times a day and I'm glued to the news. I want nothing more than for Hamas to be eradicated and both sides to live peacefully together. I just don't know what the answer is and how we get there. My community/social circle/closest friends/some family are Jewish so I have really appreciated coming here to read fryjack2 's posts because my social media is most definitely not quiet (especially because I am Ukrainian). I just don't know what to do or say and I suspect I am not alone.

ETA:  Hamas eradicated AND Netanyahu replaced

[fryjack2]

I don’t think anyone needs to explain their posting

It’s been 4 weeks of the same continuing event. Discussion will ebb and flow as things happen or don’t or as people have time or energy to be here.

Jordan and Israel (I have to read more on this but am in meetings rest of the day) are airdropping supplies into Gaza today.

[basilosaurus]

I don't know if fb is filtering.

I've seen some pretty awful Zionist biased posts. And I've seen thoughtful engagement as well, like on here. Locally everything is pro Palestine but not much discussion. The local groups are pretty racist generally (eg they really seen to hate rohinga fellow Muslim refugees), so I don't pay them much heed, but it's definitely not filtered in either side

But when someone posts asking for a Palestinian flag (very common here for years before) and a much liked response is heart Israel, I can see why people who have generational trauma just don't want to even engage, even with such a relatively innocent question.

[followyourarrow]

wildrice, I didn't see your post and I think I normally see your posts, so maybe there is some filtering going on.

[wawa]

Nov 6, 2023 12:20:42 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Nov 6, 2023 11:38:44 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

So I am seeing a lot of silence in spaces that aren’t usually silent about almost any other topic. I imagine others are as well.

Yes- I have noticed this on my Facebook. I went to the protest in DC on Saturday. I gave a lot of thought to posting specific pics on FB and wrote a message along with the pictures. I got exactly 3 responses to my thread - likes two from friends who are from Libya and one from my mom. In comparison to most other things I post, I was really surprised by the lack of engagement. I expected at least a few comments from others who were upset or wished they had been able to attend, or at least some likes in solidarity. I mean I didn't share my post for likes - I shared it to make my stance on the situation clear and to share some more "on the ground" images than what I'd seen on TV. But I found the silence pretty loud, especially in comparison to most other things I've posted on FB recently. (I did get a little more engagement on IG, at least).

So much that it made me wonder if FB is filtering posts on this topic - I'd love to know if any of you who I'm connected with on FB saw my post in your feed? 

I'll also add that at the protest, there were other white people - but not nearly as many as I would have hoped. Most of the protesters appeared to have ancestry somewhere in the middle east or were Black. IMO this is a great example of a time when white folks need to show up.  

All that said, I don't know that I'd take lack of continued posting in this thread as lack of engagement on this board specifically. I've donated to aid organizations, sent messages to my representatives, and attended a protest, but I haven't posted in here in a few days. I just don't have much new to say and think there is a fine line on social media between posting to share information and posting to appear engaged or to feel good about yourself that you "did something". 

that's interesting.  I didn't see your post.  So I just searched posts with the word palestine filtered by my friends.  There are half a dozen posts I've never seen, two from folks here, a handful more from other friends. All including people I interact with regularly, including one person that I'd say is in my top 5 facebook interaction people - we post tagged pictures of each other all the time, she's usually one of the first to like or comment on my posts, we are in the same facebook groups and attend "facebook events" together (she's my go-to running partner).  But I didn't see her post on Palestine. If it were just a few I'd say maybe that's a fluke...but all of them?  wtf.

[fryjack2]

I think it’s becoming a known thing that Facebook and Instagram are filtering posts

At least I keep seeing mention of it and suggestions of how to post so that your posts don't Get censored.

[wildrice]

Nov 6, 2023 13:30:13 GMT -5 wawa said:

Nov 6, 2023 12:20:42 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Yes- I have noticed this on my Facebook. I went to the protest in DC on Saturday. I gave a lot of thought to posting specific pics on FB and wrote a message along with the pictures. I got exactly 3 responses to my thread - likes two from friends who are from Libya and one from my mom. In comparison to most other things I post, I was really surprised by the lack of engagement. I expected at least a few comments from others who were upset or wished they had been able to attend, or at least some likes in solidarity. I mean I didn't share my post for likes - I shared it to make my stance on the situation clear and to share some more "on the ground" images than what I'd seen on TV. But I found the silence pretty loud, especially in comparison to most other things I've posted on FB recently. (I did get a little more engagement on IG, at least).

So much that it made me wonder if FB is filtering posts on this topic - I'd love to know if any of you who I'm connected with on FB saw my post in your feed? 

I'll also add that at the protest, there were other white people - but not nearly as many as I would have hoped. Most of the protesters appeared to have ancestry somewhere in the middle east or were Black. IMO this is a great example of a time when white folks need to show up.  

All that said, I don't know that I'd take lack of continued posting in this thread as lack of engagement on this board specifically. I've donated to aid organizations, sent messages to my representatives, and attended a protest, but I haven't posted in here in a few days. I just don't have much new to say and think there is a fine line on social media between posting to share information and posting to appear engaged or to feel good about yourself that you "did something". 

that's interesting.  I didn't see your post.  So I just searched posts with the word palestine filtered by my friends.  There are half a dozen posts I've never seen, two from folks here, a handful more from other friends. All including people I interact with regularly, including one person that I'd say is in my top 5 facebook interaction people - we post tagged pictures of each other all the time, she's usually one of the first to like or comment on my posts, we are in the same facebook groups and attend "facebook events" together (she's my go-to running partner).  But I didn't see her post on Palestine. If it were just a few I'd say maybe that's a fluke...but all of them?  wtf.

Ok, that is really concerning. I am going to ask a couple of friends who usually react to my posts if they saw it. I did think it was odd my BFF didn't react... She has liked basically every post I have made in the last 15 years.



Eta: she said she can see it but had to go to my page, she did not notice it on her feed.

[Bernadine]

Nov 6, 2023 13:25:25 GMT -5 followyourarrow said:

wildrice, I didn't see your post and I think I normally see your posts, so maybe there is some filtering going on.

Same here.

[wildrice]

Nov 6, 2023 13:48:03 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

I think it’s becoming a known thing that Facebook and Instagram are filtering posts

At least I keep seeing mention of it and suggestions of how to post so that your posts don't Get censored.

That is just crazy. And scary. Wtf? That is a HUGE problem.

[rikki]

I did see your post, wildrice. But, I just saw it like an hour ago and I think you posted it some time ago.

[sproctopus]

Nov 6, 2023 13:48:03 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

I think it’s becoming a known thing that Facebook and Instagram are filtering posts

At least I keep seeing mention of it and suggestions of how to post so that your posts don't Get censored.

I'm sure they'll catch on eventually, but most people are recommending to intersperse regular content, use a watermelon emoji vs Palestinian flag, hummus vs Hamas, etc.

Several creators I follow have shown the shadowbanning they are encountering whenever they post something about the genocide. Thousands of views on one story and the next has less than 30.

[wanderingback]

Nov 6, 2023 13:55:24 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Nov 6, 2023 13:48:03 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

I think it’s becoming a known thing that Facebook and Instagram are filtering posts

At least I keep seeing mention of it and suggestions of how to post so that your posts don't Get censored.

That is just crazy. And scary. Wtf? That is a HUGE problem.

Posts get censored and whole accounts get shadow banned, it’s burying new.
I don’t really go on Facebook anymore, but this is definitely true for IG, which is obviously the same company.

I don’t want to derail the thread but yes a lot of content for the type of work I do gets blocked and shadow banned and I’ve def seen it happening with stuff about Palestine accounts reporting similar problems. Unfortunately I am not surprised.

[bugandbibs]

Nov 6, 2023 6:17:32 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Queen Rania’s interview yesterday is worth a watch

www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/11/06/exp-queen-rania-middle-east-becky-anderson-intv-110503pseg02--cnni-world.cnn

Rania has given a few interviews and they have been so good. I did not realize she was of Palestinian descent prior to October though I’ve watched her for years. The way she stood up against Christiana Ampour is worth a watch too. Rania’s face holds so much pain, it’s heartbreaking to see from a world leader.

[fryjack2]

Congress just voted to censor Talib. If any more proof is needed for the anti-Arab sentiment being felt and declared out in the open, and hate incited, here's some:

Miller can say, "Palestine will be a parking lot."
Graham can say, "Level them."
Haley can say, "Finish them."
Biden can say he doesn't believe the death tolls.

Montana Congressman Zinke can propose a bill that would block Palestinian refugees from entering the US and expel Palestinians here already.

Talib condemned Hamas multiple times. She was outspoken about her disagreement with the US's response and continued support and funding of weapons to Israel. She spoke about her heritage and used the phrase, "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free."

From the river to the sea means different things to different people and been bastardized. My grandparents used to, and Palestinians I know, say it in reference to the desire and hope that they are one day free from oppression. It was never a call to end Israel. Or kill Jewish people. The same with "Free Palestine."

People now say both those phrases are anti-semitic and are a call to end Israel because Hamas has also used the FTRTTS. Not end the occupation and let people live freely. That and "Free Palestine" have been so twisted and so convoluted and now turned into something ugly.

What words can people say to support freedom for Palestinians? I have stopped using the above phrases, despite not meaning them in the way they are being portrayed now. I never really said, FTRTTS but did say, "Free Palestine." I now say, "End the Occupation." If something as straightforward as Free Palestine was, I'm sure its only a matter of time before End the Occupation will also be called anti-semitic and inciting violence against Israel.

As a Palestinian, when I see signs that have popped up around town that say, "I support Israel." Or, “I stand with Israel” they now read to me as, "I support the genocide the Israeli government is committing." That phrase didn't ever before this began but it feels that way to me now. I'm confident that most of them mean that people support Israel's right to exist (I agree with that) and are showing support to the Jewish community (which I also do) but when I read them as a Palestinian now, its coming off differently now.

[brooklyn]

Rupi Kaur, acclaimed poet, just put out this statement on Facebook

[fryjack2]

This site allows you to enter your zip and phone number and it will call you and connect you to your reps one after the other and gives you a script to say. I just leave mine short and ask them to support a ceasefire and vote for Cori Bush’s res.

act.uscpr.org/a/callforgaza

[basilosaurus]

WTF. I just don't know what what to say anymore. That's why esponend. I hate this. All of this.

[wanderingback]

Thousands of students walked out of class for a pro-Palestine protest and asking for a ceasefire <3 Thankfully no arrests have been reported.

[fryjack2]

Now I keep hearing and seeing (on our town and neighboring town FB pages and comments on all types of SM posts) that supporting a ceasefire is supporting Hamas. People are being told they are Hamas and anti-Israel and anti-semitic because they want a ceasefire so innocent people don't continue to die.

Just last night, someone in my town was told to kill themselves because they posted supporting a ceasefire. Another post was relaying that a home was vandalized because it had a ceasefire sign in their yard. The owners are white people. Not Palestinian, not Arab, not Muslim.

A yard sign asking for an end to people dying and for peace is not ok but signs supporting and standing with a country that is continuing to indiscriminately kill innocent people is totally cool? Even as someone who supports Israel's existence, I'm having a hard time understanding that.

The blatant anti-Palestine words and actions that people attempt to justify are just ridiculous at this point.

[fryjack2]

Has anyone seen a verified source of the number of Hamas killed? Is the number 60 floating around legit? Over 10,000 civilians dead and 60 Hamas?

And Netanyahu saying that Israel will remain in Gaza as a security force indefinitely is a surprise to no one. Claiming that what they are doing is helping Gazans be free by getting rid of Hamas was laughable from the start. Just look at the West Bank.

Letting Palestinians be free was, and is never the goal.

[imimahoney]

What's happening to the Palestine people is so awful and keeps getting worse. I honestly don't even know how it will end because Netanyahu is an awful war criminal who will not surrender unless he is physically forced and even if the US backed the ceasefire call, he wouldn't stop.

I said this in the antisemitism thread but his time as prime minister has made everyone less safe in the region.

[gretchenindisguise]

I saw something on social media that unfortunately made a lot of sense to me. We can’t expect our country to care about children being murdered in Gaza when it can’t even do anything about its own children being murdered by guns daily.

I cannot understand the thinking that a ceasefire = antisemitism.

[cinnamoncox0]

Nov 10, 2023 8:07:41 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Now I keep hearing and seeing (on our town and neighboring town FB pages and comments on all types of SM posts) that supporting a ceasefire is supporting Hamas. People are being told they are Hamas and anti-Israel and anti-semitic because they want a ceasefire so innocent people don't continue to die.

Just last night, someone in my town was told to kill themselves because they posted supporting a ceasefire. Another post was relaying that a home was vandalized because it had a ceasefire sign in their yard. The owners are white people. Not Palestinian, not Arab, not Muslim.

A yard sign asking for an end to people dying and for peace is not ok but signs supporting and standing with a country that is continuing to indiscriminately kill innocent people is totally cool? Even as someone who supports Israel's existence, I'm having a hard time understanding that.

The blatant anti-Palestine words and actions that people attempt to justify are just ridiculous at this point.

If I recall correctly you and I are in the same state. If not I’m sorry for quoting you, I’m about ten minutes north of Boston.

I work in my city’s high school and Wednesday some of our students were planning a walk out to show support to Palestine and at first our principal said it wasn’t school sanctioned but he won’t stop anyone from walking out.
Within a few hours it was changed to him not allowing it because the
Safety of our students was paramount.
I asked around what changed and word is that it was making
The Jewish students fear for their lives.

I mean, it was a walk out. Peaceful walk out. I can’t understand how this would make others fear for their lives.

I found it odd he backtracked so quickly and this only happens when parents and community members cry out.

When I expressed support for the walk out everyone side eyed me and everyone was saying things like what do they even know about it, if they had any real info on the situation they’d not be supportive etc.

[fryjack2]

cinnamoncox, if Jewish students had done a walk out, I’m sure it would not have been shut down.

It’s truly anything supporting Palestine and Palestinians that is being silenced and shut down.

How do those students feel knowing that their fears and anguish and desire for peace are being not only ignored, but outright shut down?

There is more than one group of people who are scared right now and there shouldn’t be favoritism as to who gets to express that.

[sent]

Nov 4, 2023 14:24:19 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

We constantly hear about the Holocaust and learned about it in school (as we should). We do not hear about the Nakba of the Palestinian people. We did not learn about it in school. The world has tried to downplay the Nakba and the tragic impact it has left. If you know any Palestinian, ask them how many family members they lost in the Nakba. Ask them what their grandparent's experience was during the Nakba. Ask them where the key to their grandparent's house in Palestine is. Ask them how long their grandparents thought they would be gone. Ask them if their grandparents ever thought they would never be allowed to return. Ask them if they still have family in Palestine. Ask them what their life is like there. Ask them what their family members in Palestine and wherever else in the world they became refugees in are feeling right now. Learn a Palestinian's history.

I feel this so much. We learned so much about the Holocaust during school in the US. It's only very recently as an adult that I learned about other horrific events that happened during the same time period in history in other parts of the world that weren't in any of the history textbooks. Some of these events likely affected my family directly but no one ever talked about it. Before the internet, it was impossible to learn about world history that wasn't written with a Euro-centric bias. I only learned about the Nakba yesterday through your post. Even with the internet, posters are talking about social media posts being filtered so it's still not easy to get information out there. As someone who isn't white, it was already hard to reconcile all of this in my head before this conflict arose. It's even more confusing now with this conflict playing out in real time. 

[gretchenindisguise]

Nov 10, 2023 11:44:25 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

I saw something on social media that unfortunately made a lot of sense to me. We can’t expect our country to care about children being murdered in Gaza when it can’t even do anything about its own children being murdered by guns daily.

I cannot understand the thinking that a ceasefire = antisemitism.

I am quoting myself here because I just went back to the anti-semitism thread and read how a call for ceasefire comes across as antisemitic when not also coupled with a call out against Hamas. That makes sense to me, so let me be clear, I support a ceasefire to help the civilians and the eradication of Hamas. I always try to be careful with my words and will add this nuance into my words for the future.

[gretchenindisguise]

Nov 11, 2023 10:14:57 GMT -5 sent said:

Nov 4, 2023 14:24:19 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

We constantly hear about the Holocaust and learned about it in school (as we should). We do not hear about the Nakba of the Palestinian people. We did not learn about it in school. The world has tried to downplay the Nakba and the tragic impact it has left. If you know any Palestinian, ask them how many family members they lost in the Nakba. Ask them what their grandparent's experience was during the Nakba. Ask them where the key to their grandparent's house in Palestine is. Ask them how long their grandparents thought they would be gone. Ask them if their grandparents ever thought they would never be allowed to return. Ask them if they still have family in Palestine. Ask them what their life is like there. Ask them what their family members in Palestine and wherever else in the world they became refugees in are feeling right now. Learn a Palestinian's history.

I feel this so much. We learned so much about the Holocaust during school in the US. It's only very recently as an adult that I learned about other horrific events that happened during the same time period in history in other parts of the world that weren't in any of the history textbooks. Some of these events likely affected my family directly but no one ever talked about it. Before the internet, it was impossible to learn about world history that wasn't written with a Euro-centric bias. I only learned about the Nakba yesterday through your post. Even with the internet, posters are talking about social media posts being filtered so it's still not easy to get information out there. As someone who isn't white, it was already hard to reconcile all of this in my head before this conflict arose. It's even more confusing now with this conflict playing out in real time. 

I also didn’t learn about the Nakba until this post.