Post by steamboat185 on Dec 8, 2023 19:16:46 GMT -5
My daughter is currently in 5th grade. There have been 4 fights since the start of the year involving at least 2 students. With school choice are looking at various middle schools and some seem to have very minimal fighting, while others have several fights a day. How many fights are “normal”? Until this year we hadn’t had any fights, but we are going on 10 months without a real principal and the kids are getting pretty wild.
Side note the school choice for middle and high school students is sort of wild. Some of the charter schools are fairly aggressive with the fliers/calls/emails. I feel like I’m back in high school looking at colleges with some of these school tours.
I’m not sure that I’ve heard of any from DS or through the rumor mill. I’m sure there may have been some and admin doesn’t mention it to all parents. We’ve been in the school 1.5 years. We also have a good admin team.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
Post by jeaniebueller on Dec 8, 2023 22:09:45 GMT -5
I guess I don’t know if they were fights at my son’s middle school when he was in middle school. He generally stayed out of the loop on that stuff. Is this just the same two kids getting into fights over and over because I guess I wouldn’t be as concerned if it’s a few between specific kids who hold a grudge. But it sounds like your school has other issues too.
There are fights at least weekly at my daughter’s school. Some smaller, some big. She stays out of their way and they don’t even phase her anymore. There are probably 1800 students at her junior high. Fights are going to happen. Admin team is great and it’s a well managed school. It’s still over crowded with hormones everywhere.
Covid had a significant effect on behavior issues in my district. We were out longer than some parts of the country like say TX and less than some parts of the country like say CA. But, the middle school my DS now attends that my DD2 spent the last 3 years at had many fights while my DD was there. DS hasn’t mentioned fighting so either it isn’t as much an issue now or he just doesn’t care to mention it. DD always wanted to mention it. Also, the fights were mainly between female students and usually started online and moved to physical fighting which may be why DD mentioned it more, being a female, she might have been privy to more of the behind the fights stuff whereas DS being a boy and with no phone at all might be completely oblivious.
The HS my DD2 attends had some fights when my DD1 was there, but DD2 hasn’t mentioned any so, again either it’s resolved or it’s not worth her mentioning.
I think fights can be fairly common at some schools. And I think that right now schools are often dealing with unprecedented behavior issues.
How do you know how many fights there are at various schools? I work in a large school district and aside from my own school, I don't actually know what happens daily at other schools unless it's big enough to hit social media. If I hear any colleague gossip it's not about specific incidents, it's more about administration and how responsive they are to behaviour issues over all. Dealing with a specific incident is confidential between the staff/students/parents involved. My guess is that there is always a lot more happening that I'm not privy to.
Post by Velar Fricative on Dec 9, 2023 10:04:57 GMT -5
There were fights in my cushy suburban school growing up. I thought fights just happened in most schools? I wouldn’t know frequency and I would simply be more focused on making sure as much as possible that my kids aren’t the ones involved.
Last year I only heard about one Serious Incident but it wasn't a fight - a student had a breakdown during class and just started screaming and throwing things, so the teacher had to evacuate the classroom.
There's a certain amount of low grade conflict but it's usually handled in the classroom, people chill out or seats/students are reassigned, etc.
I think it sort of depends on what your definition of "fight" is, how the school handles conflict resolution, what the disciplinary process is for misconduct, etc.
There has not been a physical fight in my middle school In years.
Serious question - how do you know it’s been no actual fights as opposed to no fights that you know about?
Because I’m an administrator so they would all come my way. It’s a small school. I know everyone. There have been physical incidents that have been quickly dealt with but I haven’t seen an actual fight since I was in my last school 20 years ago. And even in that school (which was a large urban public school), there were maybe 1-2 fights a month, and most were pretty minor. Only one turned into something major that I can remember.
I think middle schools get a bad rep. There are kids who are disrespectful and difficult and there is physical violence and threats happening but this narrative that it’s a constant chaos is not true for the vast majority of schools.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
How do you know how many fights there are at various schools? I work in a large school district and aside from my own school, I don't actually know what happens daily at other schools unless it's big enough to hit social media. If I hear any colleague gossip it's not about specific incidents, it's more about administration and how responsive they are to behaviour issues over all. Dealing with a specific incident is confidential between the staff/students/parents involved. My guess is that there is always a lot more happening that I'm not privy to.
We’ve been touring middle schools and that is something we’ve been asking the students or staff doing the tours. We also know kids at a lot of these schools and ask them. It’s possible that they aren’t aware of every incident, but the answers range from shocked we never/ very rarely have to fight replies to yeah fight happen a few times a day. The middle schools DD is looking at are pretty different in size and structure, which I’m sure plays into the results.
Last year I only heard about one Serious Incident but it wasn't a fight - a student had a breakdown during class and just started screaming and throwing things, so the teacher had to evacuate the classroom.
There's a certain amount of low grade conflict but it's usually handled in the classroom, people chill out or seats/students are reassigned, etc.
I think it sort of depends on what your definition of "fight" is, how the school handles conflict resolution, what the disciplinary process is for misconduct, etc.
Fight is 2 or more people punching each other.
We have to evacuate classrooms for kids throwing/screaming frequently, but that isn’t the same.
I teach HS and I can't imagine knowing how many fights other places have.
So far we had 1 fight this year. Last year was 2, maybe?
What is the status on finding a permanent principal?
I view most charter schools as part of the problem with America's schools so I would never jump to attend one.
I work at my kids school and would have agreed with you about charters until this year. The district discipline matrix is broken and we have so many teachers who have been seriously hurt by students (broken bones, punched, spit in the face) and the district does nothing and actually blames the teachers. We’ve already lost 8 staff members this year so far due to lack of support. We sent a kid down to the office Wednesday for being rude, grabbing a teachers hair, not doing work, disturbing the classroom, and making fun of another student and the interim principal let him play video games on him computer for an hour.
Our last principal was fired because he didn’t always use the district discipline matrix (he was awesome and well loved by staff and parents and we didn’t have anywhere near the level of chaos we have this year and most of our staff had been around for years). Our new principal was just announced yesterday and I’m confident she will suck.
Post by ilikedonuts on Dec 9, 2023 11:20:30 GMT -5
There were a couple fights in my daughter’s grade the last couple years (4th and 5th grade) and then she got stabbed by a kid with a pencil. 😬 My girls are now at a private all girls school starting this year.
I'm a middle school admin at an affluent public school. We have physical offenses fairly often as kids are handsy, but what we classify a fight (two people who are mad and punching/hitting/etc), we have had a few this semester. It's been better this year - it was worse right after COVID. We also have increased supervision. We have over 1000 kids.
If it's the same two kids who keep fighting, I would question why they aren't on hall restrictions or escorted in order to keep them separate.
Post by InBetweenDays on Dec 9, 2023 11:28:38 GMT -5
I don't remember any fights in elementary school. When DD was in middle school we heard about very few. When DS was in middle school I'd say we heard about a handful a year. But when DS was there the principal basically up and left (during covid) so we had no real leadership for a full year and i think that really affected the atmosphere at the school. Plus this was right after being closed for a full year. Some fights, lots of drug and alcohol use in the bathrooms, it seemed like a completely different school than when DD was there. They do have a new principal now (DS is now a freshman) and I've heard it's getting better.
So all that to say that in our experience a lot can change quickly. Depending on the leadership and the students in that year.
I'm a middle school admin at an affluent public school. We have physical offenses fairly often as kids are handsy, but what we classify a fight (two people who are mad and punching/hitting/etc), we have had a few this semester. It's been better this year - it was worse right after COVID. We also have increased supervision. We have over 1000 kids.
If it's the same two kids who keep fighting, I would question why they aren't on hall restrictions or escorted in order to keep them separate.
In elementary these are different sets of kids and definitely punching, kicking, hair pulling etc.
We are in a well-supported and high performing public district.
Zero fights Elementary.
I think 3? So far this year in middle. They have been fights between specific students, not like a brawl with lots of kids joining in. We get an email if there is a physical altercation.
I don’t think any at the high school, unless they don’t notify us.
I work at my kids school and would have agreed with you about charters until this year. The district discipline matrix is broken and we have so many teachers who have been seriously hurt by students (broken bones, punched, spit in the face) and the district does nothing and actually blames the teachers. We’ve already lost 8 staff members this year so far due to lack of support. We sent a kid down to the office Wednesday for being rude, grabbing a teachers hair, not doing work, disturbing the classroom, and making fun of another student and the interim principal let him play video games on him computer for an hour.
Our last principal was fired because he didn’t always use the district discipline matrix (he was awesome and well loved by staff and parents and we didn’t have anywhere near the level of chaos we have this year and most of our staff had been around for years). Our new principal was just announced yesterday and I’m confident she will suck.
They sound exactly like my principal last year. He was essentially demoted to a VP position, but he has no business being in administration anywhere. Last year was the worst year of my life. I was strangled by a student and then he was given candy. He was eventually sent home that day, but nothing else was done. One of my colleagues was assaulted by a parent inside the school. Nothing was done. There were so many incidents that one day just ran into the next. My anxiety going to work was sky high and I frequently considered quitting my job.
We have a new principal this year and it is a night and day difference. There are still a lot of behaviour incidents, but the worst have significantly decreased because there is now swift and (appropriately) severe consequences. The kids have learned they can't actually get away with stuff and they aren't rewarded when they do.
To answer your OP, I asked friends who work at the middle schools in my city. One said there is a handful of fist fights each year. The other said "a couple a week". The administrative teams are very different at each school and that makes a huge difference. Rather than focusing on the number, I would try to get a feel for the admin, how long they expect to be at that school (my district moves principals every 4-6 years, no idea how it works other places), etc.
Post by penguingrrl on Dec 9, 2023 19:58:47 GMT -5
In our middle school I haven’t heard of any fights. When I went there (early 90s) there were 2 fights total in my four years in the building and one particular kid was involved in both of them. My kids haven’t heard of any fights happening. It’s a small school (350 kids in grades 5-8) in a close-knit community so it’s likely I would have heard either from my kids or from a friend who heard from their kid.
Our HS has occasional fights. Maybe as frequently as monthly, but I’m not positive. Those we know (I don’t pay attention to how often, it doesn’t seem too frequent) because the school typically goes into a shelter in place until they’re certain the students involved have been identified and brought to the vice principal to avoid any further issues. The school has 1300 kids in it, so it’s a huge school so it’s not surprising.
There was a fight just yesterday at my middle school. I can think of at least 3 more this year in my grade level alone (6th). Pre-covid it was rare, post virtual learning the kids are mean to one another, don't have basic manners/common courtesies, and the state changed what consequences our schools can dole out.
I teach HS and I can't imagine knowing how many fights other places have.
So far we had 1 fight this year. Last year was 2, maybe?
What is the status on finding a permanent principal?
I view most charter schools as part of the problem with America's schools so I would never jump to attend one.
I work at my kids school and would have agreed with you about charters until this year. The district discipline matrix is broken and we have so many teachers who have been seriously hurt by students (broken bones, punched, spit in the face) and the district does nothing and actually blames the teachers. We’ve already lost 8 staff members this year so far due to lack of support. We sent a kid down to the office Wednesday for being rude, grabbing a teachers hair, not doing work, disturbing the classroom, and making fun of another student and the interim principal let him play video games on him computer for an hour.
Our last principal was fired because he didn’t always use the district discipline matrix (he was awesome and well loved by staff and parents and we didn’t have anywhere near the level of chaos we have this year and most of our staff had been around for years). Our new principal was just announced yesterday and I’m confident she will suck.
TBF, school choice (and charter schools) are one of the reasons schools are dealing with serious admin issues, lack of resources, teacher turnover, terrible decisions by school boards, etc.
But to the initial question, I haven’t had a physical fight in our school. But I teach in a super small school, (6-12, less than 500 kids) and it seems they fight off the school grounds.
Post by SusanBAnthony on Dec 10, 2023 10:06:29 GMT -5
Our middle school has probably 400 kids in 3 grades and no fights that I am aware of in the 4 years I have had kids there. That said my kids are pretty oblivious so if it didn't happen right in front of the I doubt I'd hear about it.
Post by georgeglass on Dec 10, 2023 14:22:33 GMT -5
I work at a private elementary through high school girls school (but some coed high school stuff). About five years ago, a kid "accidentally" swung a water bottle and hit someone in the arm. That's all I can recall. I've worked there about 12 years.
DD (7th) has told me of two so far this year. One the kid choke held another student until the kid started to pass out before staff intervene that happened during lunch free time. The other instance was at lunch and was tossing food in a kids face and some pushy type behavior that was quickly stopped by staff. DD has been cussed out and verbally berated by 2 different students multiple times this year. Consequences was the student had to write her an apology note.
In 6th grade there was a couple incidents all year. This year DD tells me more shenanigan's that the 6th graders do than anything. Lots of destruction and room clears going on with the 6th graders.
There are fights at least weekly at my daughter’s school. Some smaller, some big. She stays out of their way and they don’t even phase her anymore. There are probably 1800 students at her junior high. Fights are going to happen. Admin team is great and it’s a well managed school. It’s still over crowded with hormones everywhere.
same .. Miss R's middle school had nearly 2k students from 6 elementary schools. Fights were common.