Also for my son at least the biggest source of stress/pressure on this topic comes from his peers. We are constantly having to talk him down from what he thinks he needs to do. All of pressure is sort of a group think thing. I know it doesn't come from us. I don't think it comes from the teachers. It is the group chats where they are all like "I am going to take 7 AP courses next year even though we only have 7 periods in the day" lol
European perspective: Norway's primary and secondary education runs from 1 to 13. They do not see America's K-12 as equivalent for the purpose of university admissions.
However, they will accept Americans if a student has three AP courses with a grade of 3 or higher.
Threads like this worry me that I’m not doing enough. I have a sophomore and while she’s high achieving we don’t have any ivy aspirations and frankly haven’t put much thought into any specific colleges or acceptances. I hope I’m not screwing her. 😔
We haven't either besides him taking a tough course load. I don't want to put pressure on him. He already feels it enough. I made a mental rule to not even talk about it this year as a sophomore. I naively think that if he puts in the work everything will work itself out. But he doesn't have ivy aspirations, which I am grateful for. Our goal is to get him through his bachelors degree debt free.
We also try not to talk about it with N. She's carrying that pressure for herself, she doesn't need it from us.
Our school also mandates that kids have a free period. So they only have 7 classes scheduled per semester, out of an 8 period schedule, which I truly appreciate. I think the only way you're allowed to fill it is with a waiver, and you want to use it for a "non-academic" class like painting, ceramics, orchestra, etc.
Post by luckystar2 on Jan 31, 2024 10:59:47 GMT -5
A lot mention just taking the most rigorous classes. My kid’s school has so many different class options. I kind of want her to pursue different classes so she can find what she likes vs just take the honors/AP classes.
Dd is a sophomore and she has no AP classes yet. I think she really only could have taken 1 (world history) at this point. I discouraged it because she has no interest in world history and even non AP class is a hard. She is taking honors English (highest available this year). But she also took a fun elective - creative writing because she’s interested in writing. It’s not a “hard” class and she probably could have taken something else that is more difficult. But I want her to figure out what she wants to do.
She just picked classes for next year and similarly she probably could have put in some other “hard” class but she wants to take forensic science. It’s not an honors or AP…but Again I’d rather her test some of this stuff out now so she can figure out what she might want to do.
For junior year she’ll only have 2 AP classes. There really aren’t other honors options she can really take. She could probably get in AP history but since she has no interest I don’t see the point. For senior year I imagine she’ll take at least a few AP courses.
Idk my kid has no interest in ivies so I’m just hoping she finds someplace at all. I feel like narrowing down places she might want to go to is going to be hard. But I have faith she’ll find a place to be accepted to.
I took the hardest classes I could in HS. I took several AP science classes and ended up really not using/needing them in college/life. It probably did help get me in the school I wanted. But I look back and see how much extra stress and work I put on myself in HS and wonder if it was all totally necessary. So I try to have dd be more thoughtful about what she is choosing. Like I said I discouraged taking AP social studies/history classes. She finds the regular ones difficult as it is (still gets As) and she has no interest in that area. So I’d rather her put her effort elsewhere than get an extra AP class just to get an AP class.
Also for my son at least the biggest source of stress/pressure on this topic comes from his peers. We are constantly having to talk him down from what he thinks he needs to do. All of pressure is sort of a group think thing. I know it doesn't come from us. I don't think it comes from the teachers. It is the group chats where they are all like "I am going to take 7 AP courses next year even though we only have 7 periods in the day" lol
Sorry, I feel like I'm stalk-quoting you, but 100% yes.
I *just* had a conference with N's math teacher, where she's got her first non-A grade of her life. Teacher is totally fine with where she's at, and said N's grade is more the norm in her class. I mentioned how N compares herself to her peers and teacher basically said exactly what you just mentioned. Kids talk a big game. they self aggrandize to their peers, and it ramps up the pressure kids feel on themselves to keep up. N has said that "like ALL my friends have straight A's, and now I don't." I know for a fact that's not true, from talking with other parents, but this is how kids perceive it. Teacher confirmed that no, of course not every student graduates with a 4.0 (their school doesn't weight AP classes). And they're really firm about how many AP classes they'll let kids take.
But holy crap, kids are SO GOOD at talking themselves up to other kids.
We haven't either besides him taking a tough course load. I don't want to put pressure on him. He already feels it enough. I made a mental rule to not even talk about it this year as a sophomore. I naively think that if he puts in the work everything will work itself out. But he doesn't have ivy aspirations, which I am grateful for. Our goal is to get him through his bachelors degree debt free.
We also try not to talk about it with N. She's carrying that pressure for herself, she doesn't need it from us.
Our school also mandates that kids have a free period. So they only have 7 classes scheduled per semester, out of an 8 period schedule, which I truly appreciate. I think the only way you're allowed to fill it is with a waiver, and you want to use it for a "non-academic" class like painting, ceramics, orchestra, etc.
That is a great concept! I wish more schools would adopt that approach. Personally, my kid has taken so many cool and interesting electives. He's done coding, architecture, photography, creative writing, photography, and has CSI and Phycology next semester. I'm so glad he's getting the chance to take a wide variety of classes and there isn't pressure at his school to fill openings with extra STEM classes. Personally, I think creative writing will benefit him more in life than an extra math class.
Threads like this worry me that I’m not doing enough. I have a sophomore and while she’s high achieving we don’t have any ivy aspirations and frankly haven’t put much thought into any specific colleges or acceptances. I hope I’m not screwing her. 😔
Same! Ha. My kid is doing well but I actually discouraged her from taking a pre-AP course in 9th which meant she couldn’t take the AP in 10th. It was in a class she had no interest in so it seemed silly to me to push herself in that.
I am just trying to have faith that there are plenty of options and for most people the school they attend isn’t that important. I just want her to find a place she likes!
If you are telling your kid to work hard, be a good person, and find something they generally like doing, you are doing enough. There are TONS AND TONS AND TONS of options. TONS AND TONS.
Also for my son at least the biggest source of stress/pressure on this topic comes from his peers. We are constantly having to talk him down from what he thinks he needs to do. All of pressure is sort of a group think thing. I know it doesn't come from us. I don't think it comes from the teachers. It is the group chats where they are all like "I am going to take 7 AP courses next year even though we only have 7 periods in the day" lol
Sorry, I feel like I'm stalk-quoting you, but 100% yes.
I *just* had a conference with N's math teacher, where she's got her first non-A grade of her life. Teacher is totally fine with where she's at, and said N's grade is more the norm in her class. I mentioned how N compares herself to her peers and teacher basically said exactly what you just mentioned. Kids talk a big game. they self aggrandize to their peers, and it ramps up the pressure kids feel on themselves to keep up. N has said that "like ALL my friends have straight A's, and now I don't." I know for a fact that's not true, from talking with other parents, but this is how kids perceive it. Teacher confirmed that no, of course not every student graduates with a 4.0 (their school doesn't weight AP classes). And they're really firm about how many AP classes they'll let kids take.
But holy crap, kids are SO GOOD at talking themselves up to other kids.
It may not come from you, but it absolutely comes from parents. I have kids who are absolutely terrified of getting Bs because their parents will kill them. Its horrid.
Same! Ha. My kid is doing well but I actually discouraged her from taking a pre-AP course in 9th which meant she couldn’t take the AP in 10th. It was in a class she had no interest in so it seemed silly to me to push herself in that.
I am just trying to have faith that there are plenty of options and for most people the school they attend isn’t that important. I just want her to find a place she likes!
If you are telling your kid to work hard, be a good person, and find something they generally like doing, you are doing enough. There are TONS AND TONS AND TONS of options. TONS AND TONS.
Also for my son at least the biggest source of stress/pressure on this topic comes from his peers. We are constantly having to talk him down from what he thinks he needs to do. All of pressure is sort of a group think thing. I know it doesn't come from us. I don't think it comes from the teachers. It is the group chats where they are all like "I am going to take 7 AP courses next year even though we only have 7 periods in the day" lol
Parents also do this to each other so frequently. It's a wonder to behold.
"She has to apply early decision SOMEWHERE." She does? "All her friends are EDing..." I don't give a shit where her friends are EDing! Why do you!?
Post by DotAndBuzz on Jan 31, 2024 11:11:45 GMT -5
OH.
Something to keep in mind regarding acceptance rates and posted test scores of incoming classes (I've learned all this through podcasts and speakers from admission offices who have come to our school, I'm not an admissions expert).
Admissions rates have plummeted because kids are applying to SO MANY SCHOOLS. The new application is different than what we had, and while my peer group applied to like 3-5 colleges, kids now are applying to like 20. So where schools used to get like 7k applications for 3500 spots, now they get 21000 applications for those same 3500 spots. The school isn't necessarily taking "better" students, there's just a bigger rejection pool from so many extra applications.
Re: test scores. Lots of schools are now test optional, and not submitting doesn't hurt your chances. So, if you've got great grades and activities, but not as great of a test score, of course you don't submit your score. Got a great score? Submit! So kids who don't have the stellar/lower end of the curve (for that school, traditionally) scores don't submit, which drives up the average score of accepted students. Like, we looked at Duke last summer, and their ACT score for the middle 50% of their incoming class was 36. PERFECT. Now, Duke is a tough school to get into, for sure, but I'd bet a million dollars that every student in that incoming class didn't have a perfect ACT score. The ones who didn't just didn't include them in the application.
The sports is also a big thing. There’s not TOO much overlap between academic achievement and sports achievement bc generally the highest caliber athletes dedicate their time to training over more rigorous study and vice-versa. But I hear so much of parents hyping up their kid's achievements and what scholarship to where they want to get.
I think this is another example of me “trusting the experts”. DD goes to a smaller private school and gets a lot of guidance with course selection and later, college options. I’m putting a lot of stock in what they think is best. I mean, I don’t know anything about what school looks for what, or the intricacies of acceptance etc. I’m hoping that is something that comes with the tuition. Luckily neither we (H or I) nor DD or overly competitive so what other kids are doing hadn’t been a factor (yet).
Jalapeñomel. That’s the message we drill into our kids. Plus we tell them that that are many ways to be successful in life and it isn’t all tied to what college you went to or your grades.
We use ourselves as an example. H and I are both at the same very prestigious organization. He went to an Ivy and did undergrad and med school straight through. I was an athlete at a small respected liberal arts school,took a year off after college and bummed around Europe before starting my career, and just got my MA last year.
We are both doing something we love. Different paths to get there. No right way.
Applying to 20 schools is fucking insane to me. No way you actually can see yourself in 20 different colleges.
I also hate every spring there are routine articles in local news and then recirculated on social media about some kids who get into, like, every Ivy or rack up $45m in scholarships (all tied to specific schools). Why? You thought that you'd be equally happy at Brown and Harvard? Unlikely. You can use that money for anything you like? Hell to the no. Extraordinary people are great and all, but the way these stories circulate reinforces the hamster wheel of pressure.
"Blanket the earth" is not a way to select an institution of higher education. But when everyone ELSE does it, kids feel like they have to, too.
Also for my son at least the biggest source of stress/pressure on this topic comes from his peers. We are constantly having to talk him down from what he thinks he needs to do. All of pressure is sort of a group think thing. I know it doesn't come from us. I don't think it comes from the teachers. It is the group chats where they are all like "I am going to take 7 AP courses next year even though we only have 7 periods in the day" lol
It’s coming from teachers, too, but that’s mostly because teachers are graded on how many kids sign up for honors classes and then how the students do. It’s a dumb system all around.
The biggest pressure is definitely from peers. In ways it’s good because they push each other out of their comfort zones and really support each other. In other ways though…what? DD wants to use an elective next year to do office aide. Great sounds fun. Her friends are like what a waste you need a high school elective. Thankfully she’s sticking to her plan. She will go in already having credit for Spanish 1, Spanish 2, Algebra, Geometry, and Biology. Like it’s fine. Take an easy class.
As another poster said though parents are for sure pushing a lot of this. DD has a friend that gets grounded for anything less than a 95. It seems to be a cultural thing but woof.
That's because the rest of us can't help but see the beaches. My (Philly) girls at school are absolutely obsessed with the South, esp. Florida. Their parents are like, wtf!? lol
That explains the schools on the coasts, but none of the big three are all that close to a beach! I think it's because tuition is so low, even for OOS.
I was thinking the same thing; the joke's on them; there are no beaches in Gainesville or Tallahassee. What is the third "big three"? UCF? UF has been selective for as long as I can remember, but is it difficult to get into FSU or UCF these days?
Post by rupertpenny on Jan 31, 2024 11:38:49 GMT -5
Also, the middle school my daughter will likely attend offers a few AP courses. Kids can take the AP Environmental Science exam in 8th grade and take AP language exams if they take a language all three years. It is absolutely wild.
Post by fancynewbeesly on Jan 31, 2024 11:43:47 GMT -5
DD1 has her heart set on placing into the STEM program for 8th grade. She loves science and math but another big draw is the teacher. She LOVES and connects with the STEM teacher and wants to have her. Also in middle school in 8th grade they can only take one elective per year because it is block scheduling. And she is torn between two electives. German and Engineering and Design. She figures if she in the STEM program she would take German. (Apparently he is an AMAZING fun teacher)
So it seems to DD she seems to gravitate towards classes taught by teachers she would enjoy and interests.
Post by wanderlustmom on Jan 31, 2024 11:47:55 GMT -5
Yes we have a college freshman and a junior in high school. They both went/go to the same IB magnet public school and have taken a lot of AP/IB classes. They don't get credit in every class but pretty much every class is this level. Our state has competitive in state schools because we have a lottery system that makes public in state education $13K total for tuition/room and board so that's driven up the competition. My kids would have had more free time taking less APs. I agree it's a problem in our country. Both still have time for a year round sport and time to see friends. They have plenty of friends who have done just at well at other schools with or without APs and IB.
Something to keep in mind regarding acceptance rates and posted test scores of incoming classes (I've learned all this through podcasts and speakers from admission offices who have come to our school, I'm not an admissions expert).
Admissions rates have plummeted because kids are applying to SO MANY SCHOOLS. The new application is different than what we had, and while my peer group applied to like 3-5 colleges, kids now are applying to like 20. So where schools used to get like 7k applications for 3500 spots, now they get 21000 applications for those same 3500 spots. The school isn't necessarily taking "better" students, there's just a bigger rejection pool from so many extra applications.
Re: test scores. Lots of schools are now test optional, and not submitting doesn't hurt your chances. So, if you've got great grades and activities, but not as great of a test score, of course you don't submit your score. Got a great score? Submit! So kids who don't have the stellar/lower end of the curve (for that school, traditionally) scores don't submit, which drives up the average score of accepted students. Like, we looked at Duke last summer, and their ACT score for the middle 50% of their incoming class was 36. PERFECT. Now, Duke is a tough school to get into, for sure, but I'd bet a million dollars that every student in that incoming class didn't have a perfect ACT score. The ones who didn't just didn't include them in the application.
Yes. The Common App is still the Common App, but in recent years more schools have started using it so it's very easy for students to apply to many schools with one single application. I'm not sure there has been a 300% (7k to 21k) increase in applications at these schools, but I know at University of Washington (where I work) they saw a 25% increase in out of state applications the first year they used the Common App. So that certainly is affecting acceptance rates.
That explains the schools on the coasts, but none of the big three are all that close to a beach! I think it's because tuition is so low, even for OOS.
I was thinking the same thing; the joke's on them; there are no beaches in Gainesville or Tallahassee. What is the third "big three"? UCF? UF has been selective for as long as I can remember, but is it difficult to get into FSU or UCF these days?
Yeah, UCF is very competitive these days! It's crazy, I think football/sports are a big part of their popularity surge, but they have some great programs these days, too.
I don't think I've seen this mentioned here, but DD's current HS counselor was previously a college admissions counselor, and her biggest advice is to show consistent interest in attending the school. When they're accepting students they're of course looking at building a diverse, high quality student body, but they're also paying attention to how likely a student is to commit since they need a relatively high commitment rate from students they accept to make sure there's critical mass for enrollment. Do the virtual AND on-campus tours and open houses, do summer programs if you can, ask questions of the admissions staff, etc. (ETA: I'm assuming this doesn't apply to Ivies, I'm guessing their commitment rates aren't really a concern....)
Our school is IB, and DD is planning to do the full IB diploma because her top school has a nearly 100% acceptance rate for kids from our school's IB program who apply. It seems nuts that we've been thinking about this sine she was in 8th grade, and getting serious about course selection already in her freshman year.
I was thinking the same thing; the joke's on them; there are no beaches in Gainesville or Tallahassee. What is the third "big three"? UCF? UF has been selective for as long as I can remember, but is it difficult to get into FSU or UCF these days?
Yeah, UCF is very competitive these days! It's crazy, I think football/sports are a big part of their popularity surge, but they have some great programs these days, too.
I just wanted to say "these days" again, ha.
It's UF (a given for no one), FSU, UCF, but even schools like FAU and USF are getting tighter (and of course, you have to have a test score for admission to any of these schools, so it isn't really explained away by the test optional theory).
Something to keep in mind regarding acceptance rates and posted test scores of incoming classes (I've learned all this through podcasts and speakers from admission offices who have come to our school, I'm not an admissions expert).
Admissions rates have plummeted because kids are applying to SO MANY SCHOOLS. The new application is different than what we had, and while my peer group applied to like 3-5 colleges, kids now are applying to like 20. So where schools used to get like 7k applications for 3500 spots, now they get 21000 applications for those same 3500 spots. The school isn't necessarily taking "better" students, there's just a bigger rejection pool from so many extra applications.
Re: test scores. Lots of schools are now test optional, and not submitting doesn't hurt your chances. So, if you've got great grades and activities, but not as great of a test score, of course you don't submit your score. Got a great score? Submit! So kids who don't have the stellar/lower end of the curve (for that school, traditionally) scores don't submit, which drives up the average score of accepted students. Like, we looked at Duke last summer, and their ACT score for the middle 50% of their incoming class was 36. PERFECT. Now, Duke is a tough school to get into, for sure, but I'd bet a million dollars that every student in that incoming class didn't have a perfect ACT score. The ones who didn't just didn't include them in the application.
Yes. The Common App is still the Common App, but in recent years more schools have started using it so it's very easy for students to apply to many schools with one single application. I'm not sure there has been a 300% (7k to 21k) increase in applications at these schools, but I know at University of Washington (where I work) they saw a 25% increase in out of state applications the first year they used the Common App. So that certainly is affecting acceptance rates.
we are going to visit your school this spring for DS1! Applying from out of state lol - I’ve never even been to Washington State so I’m excited to visit with him
Also, the middle school my daughter will likely attend offers a few AP courses. Kids can take the AP Environmental Science exam in 8th grade and take AP language exams if they take a language all three years. It is absolutely wild.
Just wanted to add that a lot of colleges do not count AP credits even if the student did well on the exam. My son took a bunch of AP exams and the school that he ended up at counted the English and History credits, but not the Physics and Math because he was studying Engineering. They require the students to take the university Calc and Physics. The 2 Calc exams and 2 Physics exams didnt let him take 4 less classes, he had to retake them all. He was not happy about that.
Did it help him get accepted? No Idea. He just finished his PhD and is still bitching about it! lol
Also, the middle school my daughter will likely attend offers a few AP courses. Kids can take the AP Environmental Science exam in 8th grade and take AP language exams if they take a language all three years. It is absolutely wild.
Wow. That's blowing my mind.
If ever there was proof that AP courses are more about racking up accolades and money for the College Board and not about actually providing a college-level experience and collegiate style instruction, this is it.
Can I ask something genuine without getting flamed?
Is the proliferation and wider availability of AP classes lowering their value? Kind of how "travel team" and "club level" is now to sports? You know, back in the day, you had to be REALLY good to play at that level as a youth but now as long as you can pay, you can find a place to play? Are most of these early/advanced/varied choices more prevalent in higher socioeconomic school districts?
I'm not judging. I mean, my kid goes to private school so I have no room to judge.