@ Getting to school - bus vs. private car

[neverfstop]

How dropping the kids off at school became the norm

www.axios.com/2024/02/19/school-bus-transportation-education

I'm happily in the "stick my kids on the bus" camp, although our buses are pretty reliable and dependable.  The kids have scan on/off and tracking, so we can see & the school sends out texts if any of them are running really late.  I like spending a few minutes walking with my kids & seeing all the other kids/parents - it's good bonding, except on rainy days

The traffic & lines at the schools around here are nuts, plus all the staff that are required to "man" the lines getting cars through safely & kids inside is a LOT.  

[penguingrrl]

My community pretty much doesn’t have school buses. The entire district is 2.5 square miles and in NJ you have to live 2 miles away or cross a 4 lane road (there isn’t a single 4 lane road in my town) to qualify for busing. For the elementary school a handful of people qualify for a bus since that school is on one edge of town so families on the far other edge get bused, but that’s fewer than 40 kids total out of 400-500 in the elementary school. The middle school was built in the dead center of town in 1935, and was deliberately placed to be walking distance for everyone.

However, sometime between when I was here and my kids started a lot more parents started driving their kids instead of having them bike/walk, which is weird to me. When I was in middle school it was embarrassing to be driven to school unless it was rainy or really cold, but that mindset has changed.

[abs]

In elementary my kid just walked which was so nice. It was a great way to meet other parents, too, and the kids got social time.

In middle school I thought for sure DD would take the bus but between band and robotics she either goes in early or stays late most days. She tried taking the bus home once and it was a fail. There was nowhere to put her 40 pound instrument other than her lap. So. Now I just pick her up. I avoid the long line rush though.

[neverfstop]

I can't fathom a school district that small... mine is one of the larger ones in our state with 117K students over 185 square miles. Each of our elementary schools is 400-500 students. We have 12 high schools, and each HS has ~3K students. It would seem having dozens or hundreds of small districts would not be very efficient.....

[lilac05]

School pickup line is where dreams and hope for humanity go to die. I loathe having to do school pickup/dropoff. I love the bus for the same reasons you do. My youngest is in 4th grade and I love walking with him to the bus every morning. It forces me to get semi-dressed and moving, gives me some sunshine and fresh air, and gives me the chance to see neighbors. He’s absolutely capable of walking to the bus stop himself, but doesn’t mind me tagging along. He knows I do it for my benefit, not his.

I love that the bus keeps us accountable. They won’t miss the bus because they know it comes at exactly the same time every day. And if the bus is late, they aren’t marked tardy.

That said, we’re lucky that we live far enough away to have bus services. Our district just had to cut some routes that are too far to walk in the winter (1.5 miles and under) because of budget and staffing. They also moved school times so the drivers can drive the same route twice, but go to different schools. They’re trying to make it work. Bus driver hours are awful, though, and it’s hard for anyone other than retirees to make it work.

[penguingrrl]

Feb 19, 2024 10:21:58 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

I can't fathom a school district that small... mine is one of the larger ones in our state with 117K students over 185 square miles. Each of our elementary schools is 400-500 students. We have 12 high schools, and each HS has ~3K students. It would seem having dozens or hundreds of small districts would not be very efficient.....

My district is stupidly tiny and my taxes show it. K-8 is one district with 2 buildings. Our HS is its own separate 1 building regional district. Both have separate boards of education, superintendents, athletic directors etc. it’s wild and such a waste of money!

[nsl]

Count us in the 2 mile distance required for busing category. DS 2 goes to a charter school that has no buses, so we drive him ~5 miles each way every day. Kid 1 attends a school outside our boundaries, which is ironically closer to our house than our zoned school, and rides a city bus or walks most of the time.

We lived in Maryland when the kids were in elementary, and I remember seeing parents start to pull into the loop where you could pick up after school a HOUR before the final bell. I cannot fathom what those parents thought was a waste of time when they were willing to do that every single weekday.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Our district provides bussing only if you live more than 2 miles from the school or if you are less than 2 miles but would have to cross a busy street (which I'm sure is defined somewhere) to get to school. Which, at the elementary level (where my kid is) isn't that many kids. Not sure what it'll be like when we start middle school, but I'm guessing it'll be much more bus-dependent.

[nsl]

Feb 19, 2024 10:21:58 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

I can't fathom a school district that small... mine is one of the larger ones in our state with 117K students over 185 square miles. Each of our elementary schools is 400-500 students. We have 12 high schools, and each HS has ~3K students. It would seem having dozens or hundreds of small districts would not be very efficient.....

It is wildly inefficient. I work for a district that has 6 elementary schools, 2 middle schools, and 1 high school. For all that there's a board of education, superintendent, asst. superintendent, and all the other "big name" administrators required at a district office. We're an island surrounded on all sides by a well-functioning district that has 9 high schools, and it would only make sense for the two districts to merge as both are losing population, but our city council (and a lot of the voters) are dead set on maintaining the status quo.

[meganew]

My kids elementary school is walkable, which is lovely. Once kids hit middle school (5th grade) and their school is over 1.5 miles away you get a free septa card to use on buses or subway. We’re lucky that our son’s middle school has a bus route that’s only a few blocks from our house and drops him off close to school. It was a bigger adjustment for us as parents to be ok with just watching him get on a public bus and drive away, but he’s been totally fine- navigating detours, he has the schedule down, he has favorite and least favorite drivers. Lol. My daughter will have to start taking it next year going in the opposite direction and we’ll have to have those feelings all over again.

Now my school? Drop off hell. I’m surprised every day there’s no fist fighting outside cars.

[penguingrrl]

Feb 19, 2024 10:31:33 GMT -5 nsl said:

Count us in the 2 mile distance required for busing category. DS 2 goes to a charter school that has no buses, so we drive him ~5 miles each way every day. Kid 1 attends a school outside our boundaries, which is ironically closer to our house than our zoned school, and rides a city bus or walks most of the time.

We lived in Maryland when the kids were in elementary, and I remember seeing parents start to pull into the loop where you could pick up after school a HOUR before the final bell. I cannot fathom what those parents thought was a waste of time when they were willing to do that every single weekday.

We don’t have a pick up line, everyone has to park and walk up to the building to get their kid (by 2nd grade they are just released so they can find your parked car). Parents still routinely show up an hour before. I figured out that once the teacher no longer had to see their adult get them I could arrive 7-10 minutes after the last bell in the days I picked them up (over 40 and dry they walked/biked, so only if it was cold or wet) and get awesome parking from the parents that sat an hour, so my kids just waited a few minutes for me instead of me wasting an hour sitting in a parked car.

[plutosmoon]

DD always took the bus when it was available. Now we live about half a mile away, I drop her off when it's super cold, raining or snowing. She walks or bikes in if it's nice, and always walks home. We don't have car lines, parents park in the neighborhood and the kids walk over to the door, they just release the kids en masse and the parents are parked or waiting by the door for release. Her last school released the same way, but had a loop for drop off, I never spent more than a minute or two at drop off. They are probably closing her current school at the end of the year, so we would be back to the bus in the fall and back to the school with the loop. She will also take the bus for 7-12 since that school is on the other side of town. They have always been more generous with bussing than the state requires due to the fact that reliable personal transportation is hard for many local families.

Our city district is pretty small population wise, but geographically spread out, almost all the high schools (mostly 7-12) are regional. We currently have 3 elementary schools and 1 7-12 jnr/snr hs, we are moving to 2 elementary schools split by grade. Our 7-12 school is not regional, but we tuition in from a lot of the hilltowns and even from Vermont. Most of the hilltowns use a shared services model for their central administration. I wish there was more regional consolidation at the elementary level, but it would result in a lot more travel time that many are unwilling to accept for the elementary school kids.

[abs]

Feb 19, 2024 10:21:58 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

I can't fathom a school district that small... mine is one of the larger ones in our state with 117K students over 185 square miles. Each of our elementary schools is 400-500 students. We have 12 high schools, and each HS has ~3K students. It would seem having dozens or hundreds of small districts would not be very efficient.....

We are in the same city and are similar. Elementary schools hold 500-600 kids, middle school closer to 2,000, and high schools are 4,000. We are busting at the seems and need more buildings but $$$. Class sizes have always been nice and small though. (17-23 is average). These really small schools always catch me by surprise.

[ellipses84]

My kids’ large school district doesn’t typically provide busses for all students. They provide free before/ after care (if you can get a spot) at elementary and middle school though so that helps parents drop off in alignment with work schedules. They provide busses for special needs students and I know of one elementary school you can choice into that has a bus stop in a few neighborhoods but parents are typically driving their kids to the bus stop in our neighborhood. The next neighborhood over is almost entirely apartments, hardly any SFH’s, and it had 0 schools until a year ago. Now it has 1 elementary and everyone else is zoned to our area which has a massive hill separating neighborhoods so it’s not walkable. One road up is not near housing and the only other road up has no sidewalks.

DS1’s middle school is in the middle of our neighborhood but we are on the further end and it’s over a 1 mile and requires crossing/ walking along a couple busy roads. The high school is further and probably 4+ miles from some houses and can require a freeway to get to. They started giving kids free metro passes but the train is limited and the bus routes don’t align well with the home> school route. In the past year I’ve seen a lot more kids with e-bikes but the route to the high school is not very safe.

[breezy8407]

Our district has bussing for nearly everyone. The cutoff for walkability varies by age, increasing as they get older. At the HS level, they consider under 2 miles walkable. My kids have always rode the bus and would still be eligible in HS based on where we live.

I did the drop off/pick up line a few times when they were elementary school and its not as bad as some horror stories I've heard on this board, but I want nothing to do with it.

[smock]

My kids take the bus and we all love it. Lots of kids at our stop and on the route, a super cool bus driver (my 2nd grader named a stuffed animal after the bus driver), and it's so convenient. I'll be sad when they head to middle school and we no longer qualify for a bus.

[twilightmv]

We used the bus up until Covid, then we weren't comfortable and started dropping off. The school is less than a mile away, and my son was spending 35 minutes on the bus to get home (he was the last stop). Now that DH and I both work remotely and we know how long the ride is, we always pick up. The bus stop was also not in front of our house, and with our cold weather that meant driving to the bus stop anyway. 

[gretchenindisguise]

We also don't have busses. We live about 1 mile from elementary so we drive now, but sometimes 9 yo walks home. He will do more biking/walking next year. Middle school is close so they walk. High school options are both not-walkable. A lot of kids use e-bikes but L doesn't feel comfortable with them (and I'm iffy on them too) so we drive. It's kind of a pain.

[devonpow]

Our district is all walkable neighborhood K-8 schools and 1 high school for everyone (walkable for all but 1 k-8 district). There are no buses except 1 for the further away high school group (and fir kids with special needs etc).

We live literally across from our k-8 which is awesome and about 1 mile from the high school. DS1 is a junior and I think we have driven him 2 times in three years, when it was particularly awful weather. Otherwise it’s all walking - a mile isn’t that far.

I’m always shocked at how many people drive their kids - since we live across from the school we see it every day. I know where they all live abd it’s extremely walkable. There is zero reason to drive your kids most of the time.

[pixy0stix]

This ties into the article I posted where adults think something is unsafe, but in reality it's fine.

[ssmjlm]

Our area has created a massive busing need because we don’t have sidewalks. It’s weird, but my friend could put her kids on a bus and she lives behind the elementary school. They walk, but it’s “frowned upon.”

A parent had to petition for a bike rack after Covid because they didn’t want to encourage walking/riding. There is a decent sized neighborhood across the street from the elementary school and they have to ride the bus. There’s no crosswalk or crossing guard for them.

So since we want to bus everyone, we have shortages. We had major driver issues after Covid, but finally got a new driver a year ago and he’s awesome.

[pixy0stix]

Every time someone mentions cold weather and having to walk, I think about the kid in my neighborhood who rides his unicycle to school about a mile in whatever weather it is that day.

[nsl]

Feb 19, 2024 11:53:25 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

Our area has created a massive busing need because we don’t have sidewalks. It’s weird, but my friend could put her kids on a bus and she lives behind the elementary school. They walk, but it’s “frowned upon.”

A parent had to petition for a bike rack after Covid because they didn’t want to encourage walking/riding. There is a decent sized neighborhood across the street from the elementary school and they have to ride the bus. There’s no crosswalk or crossing guard for them.

So since we want to bus everyone, we have shortages. We had major driver issues after Covid, but finally got a new driver a year ago and he’s awesome.

This is the sort of thing that drives me nuts. It's not the simplest thing in the world to get a crosswalk installed, but if the school has a demonstrated need and it would cut down on the numbers pressure with bus drivers it's hard to imagine that a city/county council wouldn't be in favor of this. Crossing guards don't cost as much as bus drivers and aren't nearly as hard to find (they're mostly volunteer where I live--PTA parents and grandparents), and more walkers relieves traffic in those neighborhoods.

[penguingrrl]

Feb 19, 2024 11:53:25 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

Our area has created a massive busing need because we don’t have sidewalks. It’s weird, but my friend could put her kids on a bus and she lives behind the elementary school. They walk, but it’s “frowned upon.”

A parent had to petition for a bike rack after Covid because they didn’t want to encourage walking/riding. There is a decent sized neighborhood across the street from the elementary school and they have to ride the bus. There’s no crosswalk or crossing guard for them.

So since we want to bus everyone, we have shortages. We had major driver issues after Covid, but finally got a new driver a year ago and he’s awesome.

My SILs district is like this. They don’t allow walking/biking period. If a student is being released to anything but bus/aftercare an approved adult has to come in and sign them out with the process used if a kid leaves school early. They don’t allow kids to leave alone until high school.

[neverfstop]

Feb 19, 2024 11:48:15 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

This ties into the article I posted where adults think something is unsafe, but in reality it's fine.

I'm trying to get the kids to walk to the bus stop on their own a one day a week- just so they can gain confidence & independence.  It's < 1/4 mile away on quiet street at front of our neighborhood, always with other kids/parents/neighbors around...  DH is hesitant and it drives me bonkers that he's so protective and paranoid of our 8 & 9 YO. 

[ECB]

During covid, we moved DS to a new school that doesn't have buses, so I have to take him and pick him up. I MISS him being able to take the bus!!

But I'll say this - and I saw it mentioned - all the STUFF he has to take sometimes is crazy town. In 7th he played lacrosse and trombone - on days he had to take both to school - there is NO way he could have done it on a bus. Backpack, lacrosse bag, lacrosse sticks, and trombone. Oh- and his lunch bag too. Nope. I would have driven him in anyhow!

[sonrisa]

We don’t have free bussing. It’s $300 each way per kid for a bus pass (so 1,200 for both if we used it). And there aren’t a lot of stops. The school timing and route works with my husband’s work schedule and I’m the afternoon we are often going straight to an activity. So paying $600 a year for a few days a week of busing would be steep.

[Jalapeñomel]

If a bus isn’t provided, my kids would walk. No way I’m going in a pick up/drop off line.

Also, it’s horrible for the environment.

[waverly]

Our district has a lot of families in the walking distance of 1.5 miles before bussing comes into play. The problem is that is for prek-5th grade, and yeah 5th graders can easily walk but most people aren't sending their kindergartners, so there is still a lot of drop offs and pick ups, and 1.5 miles is kind of far. We made the cut off due to a large road which they deemed as unsafe, so we get bussing, and we just squeaked by for bussing for the middle school. One block over is too close, and doesn't qualify. I did not realize this when we bought our house and am so grateful. We will have no bussing for high school though which as high schoolers they should be able to do a much better job walking themselves. Although my preliminary thought is that I may drop them on my way to work, and then they walk home especially in the winter.

[chickadee77]

Our only experience was back when our eldest was in K. The bus stop was one mile from our house, and K riders were integrated with grades 1-5. My H was "hell no" on the bus anyhow (growing up, there was always a lot of violence and inappropriate behavior on his bus) but with the stop being so far, it made more sense to just drive an extra mile and drop her at the school.

Then my job changed and we had to utilize before/after care, so the point was moot, ha.

Drop-off sucked. Pickup wasn't too bad.