I don’t know anyone personally who has given feedback on a specific brand but I’d get a phone like the Bark phone where you can just text and call and there is no internet or apps available. I do think should be able to call friends and these days since home phones aren’t a thing then need their own phone.
I feel like no good can come from social media so no need for that in 7th grade with a personal account/access.
This is so kid specific. When we discussed it, my oldest had a strong preference for the “nice watch” over the “phone that screams your parents don’t trust you.” (His words, not mine.) He and several of his friends gladly chose no phone over the ones that are clearly stripped down phones with a lot of protections.
I don’t know anyone personally who has given feedback on a specific brand but I’d get a phone like the Bark phone where you can just text and call and there is no internet or apps available. I do think should be able to call friends and these days since home phones aren’t a thing then need their own phone.
I feel like no good can come from social media so no need for that in 7th grade with a personal account/access.
This is so kid specific. When we discussed it, my oldest had a strong preference for the “nice watch” over the “phone that screams your parents don’t trust you.” (His words, not mine.) He and several of his friends gladly chose no phone over the ones that are clearly stripped down phones with a lot of protections.
Well yes of course it’s kid specific. But OP’s kid is embarrassed by the watch they have and are asking for a phone, so I gave info about giving a phone. Hence, I would offer to give them a phone with texting and calling capabilities since they are asking about being able to communicate with friends. But maybe something is getting lost in translation about what I said?
This thread is super depressing to read. Sixth grade is around the corner yet to me it feels like the fifth graders don't have the social freedom I would've expected. Maybe it's all about to blow up this summer on me.
This is so kid specific. When we discussed it, my oldest had a strong preference for the “nice watch” over the “phone that screams your parents don’t trust you.” (His words, not mine.) He and several of his friends gladly chose no phone over the ones that are clearly stripped down phones with a lot of protections.
Well yes of course it’s kid specific. But OP’s kid is embarrassed by the watch they have and are asking for a phone, so I gave info about giving a phone. Hence, I would offer to give them a phone with texting and calling capabilities since they are asking about being able to communicate with friends. But maybe something is getting lost in translation about what I said?
I lost my full reply. Essentially, what I was poorly communicating was that for many kids I know, offering a “baby” phone would be like throwing gasoline on a fire. So…know your kid. It might be better to stick with the no phone policy than to suggest that they have one of those.
Parenting teens is so much harder than we were warned! They don’t physically need us like they used to (except for a billion rides everywhere), but they need us more than ever in many other ways…all while taking every opportunity they can to remind you that they do NOT, in fact, need you. Offering to help them ruins their lives or embarrasses them or some other world-altering thing. I was an easy teen, and have a pretty easy teen so far…but I still feel wholly unprepared.
This thread is super depressing to read. Sixth grade is around the corner yet to me it feels like the fifth graders don't have the social freedom I would've expected. Maybe it's all about to blow up this summer on me.
Same. I have a kid almost done with 5th and she’s never asked for a phone, but middle school is around the corner so I am hoping we can get away with just a watch. Just when I’m trying to minimize my own phone use to set a better example, here comes the time to make this decision for the kids.
My DSs are 7th graders with watches, iPads and no phone. 1 of them complains constantly about this and the other is fine with it. (Probably because his brother does enough complaining for everyone.) If they didn’t have school iPads I’d never hear the end of it. But they do so they just use iPads on the bus and at lunch. Tons of other kids do too - so much so that iPad overuse is a problem. (I wish the school had never given them iPads but that’s another topic.) My kids are definitely on the late end but 8th grade is right around the corner so they can wait. I will say, I have noticed phone adoption was earlier and more pervasive for girls than boys here. Of the boys, I know of several without phones and it’s not that big of a deal, despite what DS1 will tell you.
To be frank - I kind of hate the whole texting/talking/communicating on my apple watch as an adult. Half the time talk to text gives something "close" but not great. And there's always a weird sort of delay with phone calls. So I can't fault a kid for having the same issues. (And DH has a samsung watch he pretty much hates, so it's not a brand thing.)
I'm going to have a 6th grader in the fall who will be home alone likely 1 morning a week and after school for a bit depending on activities and we're considering giving her my old iphone, very locked down, with clear times for usage. We've been talking for at least a year about a watch option, but there was always some reason why it wouldn't work.
Another thought on just watches. My DD2 has ADHD and OCD. With her phone, she puts it in her bag and is not tempted to mess with it during the school day. If it was right on her wrist, she would be 1,000 times more distracted! I know a watch would be an absolutely nightmare for her and her personality. The expectation at school is that phones are in backpacks all day and only allowed out at lunch or after school, so that helps too.
Well yes of course it’s kid specific. But OP’s kid is embarrassed by the watch they have and are asking for a phone, so I gave info about giving a phone. Hence, I would offer to give them a phone with texting and calling capabilities since they are asking about being able to communicate with friends. But maybe something is getting lost in translation about what I said?
I lost my full reply. Essentially, what I was poorly communicating was that for many kids I know, offering a “baby” phone would be like throwing gasoline on a fire. So…know your kid. It might be better to stick with the no phone policy than to suggest that they have one of those.
Parenting teens is so much harder than we were warned! They don’t physically need us like they used to (except for a billion rides everywhere), but they need us more than ever in many other ways…all while taking every opportunity they can to remind you that they do NOT, in fact, need you. Offering to help them ruins their lives or embarrasses them or some other world-altering thing. I was an easy teen, and have a pretty easy teen so far…but I still feel wholly unprepared.
Yes the kid could decline. I think it’s still fine to offer. The options are no phone, watch only or phone without app access. Then they can pick.
It’s like when kids start to drive and want a car. They might want a brand new car but youre not getting them one. So the options are walk everywhere, continue to take public transportation or drive the old beat up car. Still fine to offer even if they scoff at driving the old car.
It sounds like your dd is genuinely missing out on some interactions because of her not having a phone (whether it's truly being left out of because of her own perceived 'outsiderness' keeping her from allowing her to join in). So at this point I would re-examine why you wanted to 'wait till 8th' and if there are any valid reasons for that deadline or if it was more an arbitrary deadline you were trying to meet and if you can compromise with getting her a phone that she can text on, but still limit social media (which is the real culprit of many evils IME).
Your dd may still feel left out if you limit social media, and also depending on what kind of phone you get her as pp's mentioned. We are an android family, so while we got both my kids phones when they turned 12, we will not allow them to get iPhones, even if they would buy them with their own money at this point, because the parental controls wouldn't be compatible with dh/my devices. So dd complains that she is still left out of some group chat stuff according to her, and I feel bad about that, but she could find ways to be included if she really wanted to (like using her old iPod, which she claims is old and 'glitchy and slow' because she downloaded too many things and doesn't want to take the time to delete stuff, so that's on her). DD also complains that I won't let her get TikTok or SnapChat. I recently let ds get Instagram with the caveat that I follow him. He doesn't plan to post anything, his friends were just sharing videos from there like they do from youtube. So I allowed that (he's in high school), and dd doesn't 'get' the difference, so she was complaining about that for a while, but it was a hard no for me still.
I guess part of this post is trying to untangle whether she's truly being ostracized for not having a phone or if it is just something she is worried about. I'm not as convinced as she is that the phone will solve all her problems lol.
I think the wait until 8th thing is somewhat arbitrary and is/was more of a wait as long as possible that is still somewhat socially acceptable. I don't love what I have seen and heard about the other girls she is friendly with who have phones and a lot of them don't have social media yet or any 'serious' cyberbullying happening yet:
1) A lot of them seem to be obsessed with skincare and makeup via endless videos on youtube and tiktok. While this could be a harmless artistic hobby for some, I think it's the gateway to having a teen who is way too invested in how they look and has unrealistic images about how they should look and feels like they aren't good enough.
2) When our same aged neighbor first got her phone last summer, she and DD took a lot of funny and silly photos when they were hanging out around the neighborhood in July and August. Once school started, neighbor deleted all of the unattractive shots of herself but kept the ones of my DD and zoomed in so they would look odder and showed/sent them to other girls on the bus and at lunch.
3) When I picked DD and a friend up at school to take them to Starbucks and the mall, friend immediately pulled out her phone and had her face in it the entire ride.
4) This same friend's mom told me over the weekend that another girl has been texting friend daily this entire school year asking to copy her homework in basically all classes. Friend has been giving in because she was afraid to say no but has been upset about it. The mom just recently figured out what has been going on because she saw a text before her could daughter delete it. I suppose the cheater could be doing the same thing in person pre-phones but she wouldn't have the same kind of all hours access to be hounding friend incessantly.
1. They can access You Tube from other devices. This reason is part of why we blocked it at the server level on our wifi. They were accessing it on their school issued Chromebooks, the TV, and iPads. 2. That is weird 3. Unfortunately, I feel like that is normal but many kids are getting addicted to their phones. 4. I review the text messages and luckily my kids have not been deleting them. If it comes to that we may have to get a monitoring software. I understand if you don't want to monitor at that level yet.
DS seems to be handling it OK (13), DD is not mature enough for a phone yet (11).
This thread is super depressing to read. Sixth grade is around the corner yet to me it feels like the fifth graders don't have the social freedom I would've expected. Maybe it's all about to blow up this summer on me.
Same. I have a kid almost done with 5th and she’s never asked for a phone, but middle school is around the corner so I am hoping we can get away with just a watch. Just when I’m trying to minimize my own phone use to set a better example, here comes the time to make this decision for the kids.
In 6th grade, the kids started to make some of their own plans. They walked home from school on half days and went to McDonalds etc. This year in 7th, I made him text about his own event. But really DS is a bit delayed socially from Covid and EF delays. I expect the real "freedom" will come in high school. It's always just a little bit more each year, but nothing huge yet for him. I know other kids have more freedom and he is more restricted and some of that is self imposed (he dislikes certain activities), and some of it is parenting style.
I would get her a phone and I would get her a real phone. Doesn't have to be the latest model or anything like that but not a "baby" phone. Kids have to live in this world and being isolated is very hard. I remember that feeling of wanting Guess jeans so bad and my parents saying no. It sucks when you're 12 and it does feel like they're ruining your life.
My youngest is in middle school and he only knows one kid without a phone. It's absolutely hindering his social life. He has a watch but most kids in my area have moved to discord vs texting so having a watch doesn't help with communication.
His mom texted his friends from her phone to invite him to his birthday party and then kept sending texts as a way of communicating with his friends for him. It was so odd and I finally had to tell her that it's inappropriate for an adult to be texting my teenager. So, don't do that
I'm surprised at the answers here. I thought research shows that once the phone is given, when brains aren't developed enough, it does more harm than good. Maybe I need to reevaluate emerging research, but how are those recs different than following safety guidelines for booster seats?
Signed, mom of a 7th grader who has an extra family cell phone for the rare times we need to give it to him (ie when going to an amusement park or if his XC practices run long over the summer but not every day.) But it's not his phone.
His social life isn't "blossoming" but, risk vs. reward here. I think that's okay.
if she has a way to text, then you are probably not ruining her life. If she had no way to communicate, then I would have said it probably is hurting her socially, but the watch should be fine. Kids that age find anything different to be embarassing. we went through this with my son bc he has a samsung and it was a bigger issue for kids than i expected. but ultimately he survived and so will your daughter. the tech is so hard to navigate.
Oh she already informed me that she is saving up money toward her future phone because if I get her an android or a "cheap" iphone SE (read: the one DH and I have) people are going to "make fun of her." So her plan is to increase the budget with her savings so she can get what she thinks is a socially acceptable iphone ::eyeroll emoji:: .
I would work on self esteem honestly. The group chats and texting aren't going to be nice and if she's this obsessed with fitting in I'd be worried about it.
Post by pittpurple on Mar 19, 2024 10:26:03 GMT -5
I got my daughter a phone when when she was 9 and started walking the mile to school on her own. Her grandmother's old iphone - think it was an iphone 5 maybe? The battery was shocking so we 'upgraded' it this year to a refurbished older SE and have no regrets. She makes her own social plans and hangs out with friends after school and I can make sure she's where she's meant to be (she's learning how to use public transport with 50% success and I like being able to keep an eye on her!). She is in a bunch of WhatsApp groups but she doesn't have anything else - most of her friends are on TikTok, Insta, etc but she just video chats with her friends, sends pictures of bunnies and listens to the Hamilton soundtrack. I look at her phone once a week or so at random to just make sure of what's going on and minus some terrible language, there's nothing problematic. It shuts down from 8-8 and I have various limits set up on top of that. My kids don't have tablets and we only have one TV so they don't have much screen time otherwise.
BUT... she's not my techie kid. My son has a hard time turning off the switch and is always asking to watch TV and definitely will eventually notice most of his friends are gaming together online (at 7?!?)... I reckon he will be my more problematic kid. My daughter has no issue putting down her phone and reading a book or baking or whatever.
I will say she was actually one of the last in her group to get a phone and the 'one' kid who came after her just sort of disappeared from the socialising - occurred to me later on that she had no idea anyone was even hanging out as they just make their plans together. So it was both true that it's a shame this is how it works but also that my daughter definitely missed out by my delaying getting her a phone.
I'm surprised at the answers here. I thought research shows that once the phone is given, when brains aren't developed enough, it does more harm than good. Maybe I need to reevaluate emerging research, but how are those recs different than following safety guidelines for booster seats?
Signed, mom of a 7th grader who has an extra family cell phone for the rare times we need to give it to him (ie when going to an amusement park or if his XC practices run long over the summer but not every day.) But it's not his phone.
His social life isn't "blossoming" but, risk vs. reward here. I think that's okay.
There are actual laws governing car seat and booster safety.
There aren't any laws governing cell phones and children. The only one I can think of it the over 13 for Social Media (COPPA), so I think there is definitely a lot more work to be done in this sphere both legally and in messaging/ communication to the general public about the issues and guidelines maybe from public health/ government/ pediatric medical organizations all getting on the same page.
Wait until 8th for a Smart Phone is the only thing I have heard of, and it can be hard to do when everyone else gets a phone in 4th and 5th grade. My 5th grader is one of the few without a phone which is shocking to me. And many of the parents that did give their child a phone have NO parental controls on it at all.
We didn't quite make it to 8th, but we have the app store locked down, and we can remove the internet app also if we need to, and we definitely will if we have to. Essentially able to turn the smartphone into a dumb phone.
Based on what you've said and what I've heard from other parents with middle schoolers, I'd probably go ahead and get the phone, then lock it down as much as you feel is needed.
I'm surprised at the answers here. I thought research shows that once the phone is given, when brains aren't developed enough, it does more harm than good. Maybe I need to reevaluate emerging research, but how are those recs different than following safety guidelines for booster seats?
Signed, mom of a 7th grader who has an extra family cell phone for the rare times we need to give it to him (ie when going to an amusement park or if his XC practices run long over the summer but not every day.) But it's not his phone.
His social life isn't "blossoming" but, risk vs. reward here. I think that's okay.
I think it hugely depends on what the phone (and I'll say it again -- the laptop) gets used for and how you feel about how your kid is doing academically and socially. Personally I'd love it if V (5th grade) and his friends could text each other to schedule playdates or meet up to play basketball. If the cost of that is he plays with emoji kitchen and reads random Wikipedia articles that's fine.
I don't know if we have data yet on "no phone" vs "dumb phone" vs "locked-down smartphone" vs "smartphone". I could believe that "locked-down smartphone" is still not great and you'd be better off with a flip phone that can send & receive pictures. But it's moot by high school -- there's school and/or extracurricular stuff that's organized on Discord etc.
I'm surprised at the answers here. I thought research shows that once the phone is given, when brains aren't developed enough, it does more harm than good. Maybe I need to reevaluate emerging research, but how are those recs different than following safety guidelines for booster seats?
Signed, mom of a 7th grader who has an extra family cell phone for the rare times we need to give it to him (ie when going to an amusement park or if his XC practices run long over the summer but not every day.) But it's not his phone.
His social life isn't "blossoming" but, risk vs. reward here. I think that's okay.
I’ve made my position on this clear over the years, and I agree with you. I teach 8th grade. The research is clear and getting clearer — Waiting until they’re older is better, 100%. My kids didn’t get phones until they were 13 and everyone managed socially just fine (and honestly, the phone has been a nightmare for my ADHD 15 year old. She doesn’t do anything nefarious but holy shit is it addicting to her brain).
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
Oh she already informed me that she is saving up money toward her future phone because if I get her an android or a "cheap" iphone SE (read: the one DH and I have) people are going to "make fun of her." So her plan is to increase the budget with her savings so she can get what she thinks is a socially acceptable iphone ::eyeroll emoji:: .
I would work on self esteem honestly. The group chats and texting aren't going to be nice and if she's this obsessed with fitting in I'd be worried about it.
I don’t think this is quite fair. The group chats can be crazy and mean for sure but they can also be extremely supportive and fun. This depends on the friend group. DD has stayed out of the drama very well. Also who doesn’t want to fit in? I don’t know. Like it or not our kids are growing up in age with access to all sorts of technology. You can deny a phone but they are still exposed through friends. They are still on computers all day so how is a phone any different? By 7th I’m not sure there is much benefit into delaying any further. Not saying it should be here is a phone best of luck but there is middle ground.
Like I said no regrets here. We have constant conversations about the responsibilities that come with technology access and honestly some of the insights DD has shared with me really amaze me. The kids are ok. They are a lot smarter than they get credit for sometimes. It doesn’t mean that I expect her to be perfect and that mistakes won’t be made but sometimes this board doesn’t give teens enough credit either.
Social media is a whole different conversation and I think there is real benefit to waiting in that. DD does have an IG account but her real name is hidden and she has zero school friends. She uses it for following sports players, baking channels, and softball tips. I imagine she will want Snapchat eventually but she hasn’t asked yet.
Oh she already informed me that she is saving up money toward her future phone because if I get her an android or a "cheap" iphone SE (read: the one DH and I have) people are going to "make fun of her." So her plan is to increase the budget with her savings so she can get what she thinks is a socially acceptable iphone ::eyeroll emoji:: .
I would work on self esteem honestly. The group chats and texting aren't going to be nice and if she's this obsessed with fitting in I'd be worried about it.
I do feel like she's trapped in some chicken and egg cycle where she isn't feeling confident because she doesn't have friendships that are as close as she would like but then she also feels like she is having trouble developing friendships without having a phone which then makes her feel less confident. The craziest part is that she's the most outgoing of my 3 kids by nature but middle school has really made her newly self conscious in a way she wasn't previously and nervous to put herself out there.
I was painfully shy at her age and moved to a new town where I knew no one over the summer in between 6th and 7th grade. So 7th and 8th were not the highlight years of my life lol and I don't have a good feel for how hard 7th is 'supposed' to be.
shortstax this thread is full of moms who have struggled with this decision and what is right for their kid/family/lifestyle in terms of the parenting decisions around phones, and you’re comparing it to not physically protecting your kid from the #1 cause of death?
I think these are two very different things. I also think social lives of boys and girl tweens/teens are different.
shortstax this thread is full of moms who have struggled with this decision and what is right for their kid/family/lifestyle in terms of the parenting decisions around phones, and you’re comparing it to not physically protecting your kid from the #1 cause of death?
I think these are two very different things. I also think social lives of boys and girl tweens/teens are different.
You're totally right. I was too glib, as I was thinking about my 9 year old and how she's past the state law of boosters but it's "best" to keep her in one based on height. That wasn't conveyed at all in my post, so I apologize for those short words.
I do think mental safety is important though, and I don't know how we (as parents, and the greater we) assess that risk v. reward. It's such a struggle.
Post by minniemouse on Mar 19, 2024 12:23:20 GMT -5
Another plus to getting a phone in middle school is it gives them time to learn and adjust to the responsibility before high school. I had all the parental controls on dd’s phones but reluctantly took off some this year (9th grade), when on three separate occasions teachers told the students to download apps in class and she could not - because I had it set that she needed permission. I was on a work calls and didn’t see the notification the first 2 times this happened. She was so embarrassed when a teacher called her out for not completing the assignment and she said she was waiting for permission from me. Two of the apps were for fundraisers, the other was a tuner for music.
Yes, kids are all on their phones if they have them and have an opportunity to be on it.
No, you are not ruining her life.
Our rule is that they will get one when it is necessary. Right now we are their transportation to everything, they don't get dropped off anywhere without us sticking around close by.
There are a host of other issues that come with access to the internet, texting, etc. Can she talk to her friends outside of school in some other way? Our kids like to call friends either on our phones or talk to them through gaming.
If she just feels awkward on the bus because everyone is on their phone then she could bring a book, I get the social anxiety at that age of not knowing how to just *be* when in public!
shortstax yes, and car safety is also super easy to study - was there injury or death or not. While the smartphone research is purely correlation. While studies have shown that kids who got smartphones younger have worse mental health (as self reported), there is no way to control for why kids got the phone younger - many kids I know who split time between different homes get a phone younger, or kids who are alone more, or maybe have fewer restrictions or rules. I’m definitely not saying those things necessarily lead to poorer mental health - one of the reasons we’ll get my daughter a phone in 7th grade is because she’ll be walking home alone while both her parents work full time - but family differences can influence both the age at which kids get a phone and also mental health and it’s difficult to disconnect the two. It’s like how I’m guilty of sometimes letting my more challenging kid use electronics more because I just need a break from him sometimes and it calms him down.
Emily Oster is an economist I respect and she says you really can’t draw firm conclusions on the cell phone studies that have been done. I think we can all agree that we don’t love our kids having phones most of the time, but there are trade-offs.
shortstax this thread is full of moms who have struggled with this decision and what is right for their kid/family/lifestyle in terms of the parenting decisions around phones, and you’re comparing it to not physically protecting your kid from the #1 cause of death?
I think these are two very different things. I also think social lives of boys and girl tweens/teens are different.
You're totally right. I was too glib, as I was thinking about my 9 year old and how she's past the state law of boosters but it's "best" to keep her in one based on height. That wasn't conveyed at all in my post, so I apologize for those short words.
I do think mental safety is important though, and I don't know how we (as parents, and the greater we) assess that risk v. reward. It's such a struggle.
I don't know, but we've long struggled with the stupid content of YouTube and then add in the skin care tutorials and finally DH has enough. Actually he also had enough when I was sitting next to DS for DS to do his homework and DS was on YouTube instead. I've also reached out to the school about blocking on computers but they don't do that because teachers use it for tutorials. DS has a long history of watching it in class. I checked his history and he watched a video entititled something like Explaining Only Fans to Kids, and it was terrible. Nothing pornographic, but terrible content, as an example. Now that we have this router in place we won't hesistate to block other things. We don't have an issue discussing versus blocking, but some things are addictive so the discussion doesn't work or the algorithms show them something even when we've discussed unhealthy content.
Once we start to see something become unhealthy is when we take steps, but I know some parents don't oversee it at all or don't know how to put in parental controls or don't think it's an issue. I'm not talking here on the board where we have discussed it many times, but for those that haven't really thought through their plan.
I would work on self esteem honestly. The group chats and texting aren't going to be nice and if she's this obsessed with fitting in I'd be worried about it.
I don’t think this is quite fair. The group chats can be crazy and mean for sure but they can also be extremely supportive and fun. This depends on the friend group. DD has stayed out of the drama very well. Also who doesn’t want to fit in? I don’t know. Like it or not our kids are growing up in age with access to all sorts of technology. You can deny a phone but they are still exposed through friends. They are still on computers all day so how is a phone any different? By 7th I’m not sure there is much benefit into delaying any further. Not saying it should be here is a phone best of luck but there is middle ground.
Like I said no regrets here. We have constant conversations about the responsibilities that come with technology access and honestly some of the insights DD has shared with me really amaze me. The kids are ok. They are a lot smarter than they get credit for sometimes. It doesn’t mean that I expect her to be perfect and that mistakes won’t be made but sometimes this board doesn’t give teens enough credit either.
Social media is a whole different conversation and I think there is real benefit to waiting in that. DD does have an IG account but her real name is hidden and she has zero school friends. She uses it for following sports players, baking channels, and softball tips. I imagine she will want Snapchat eventually but she hasn’t asked yet.
I'm on the fence if an appropriately locked down phone can be the equivalent of the 90s Guess jeans - making her feel like she fits in but having relative little downside other than the financial cost?