@ Tantrums &Turf Wars: The School Car Line Is Chaos

[AAM2012]

Apr 17, 2024 22:29:12 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Apr 17, 2024 22:21:34 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? I get what you’re saying but there are sidewalks for kids if needed.

Again, this is a very small residential area. I’ve seen maybe 1-2 times a child on a bike going to school in 8 the years I’ve been here and they were on the sidewalk

It's fucking shitty that people are parking in the bikes lanes near a school. Stupidity and selfishness at it's finest.

Sorry it wasn’t clear, you absolutely can legally park in that area. It’s a bike lane and then maybe an extra 4 feet to the right of it and is shared space.

This is for many neighborhood areas…right or wrong.

[hermione]

The reserved parking spot at our school went for $2k this year.

I time my pick up arrival to the minute. Preschool gets out at 3:10, the rest of the school gets out at 3:15. That means at 3:13, spots open as the first set of cars leave. I sit in the playground lot until 3:13 exactly and then pull around. Somehow, very few people have figured this out.

[Deleted]

Our car rider line is mostly drama-free. It’s a newer school that was mostly designed with a very long winding driveway to accommodate the line so it doesn’t affect local traffic. They also gather car riders in one room per grade and call the kids in order to numbered comes in front, so the line moves pretty smoothly. There are also a high number of walkers (so I think some parents park across the street and walk over, and some live close enough to walk from home). Kids have to be in 4th or 5th I think to be able to walk on their own.

[CurlyQ284]

When DS was in elementary, the line was so so bad. Parents were crazy, everything was inefficient. He moved up to intermediate this year (5th and 6th) and it's like a well oiled machine, I love it. Seamless zipper merging! I think having small kids made a lot of these parents assholes. Stopping in front of their kids classroom so their kid doesn't have to walk 30 feet down the sidewalk, that sort of thing. Still can't figure out why there's so much aggression and cutting people off in elem and none of that at intermediate though.

ETA we have a driver shortage like everyone else, DS would spend almost an hour on the bus. He has had behavioral issues in the past, been bullied in the bus and I just decided an hour of mostly unsupervised time with 50 kids is just not helpful. I WFH so I just work extra to cover the time. He's matured a lot, and no longer has meltdowns but he rode the bus home last week to get picked up by my neighbor (the busses go from his school to the elem schools and parents can pick up both students at the elementary school). He got half the bus doing fart noises and got in trouble with the substitute bus driver. Sooooo yeah we're gonna be doing pickup and drop off except for the occasional one off if it's necessary.

[Velar Fricative]

Also I am still laughing about the parent suing for…whatever she is suing for. From what I’ve seen on the car lines, staff speaking nicely doesn’t work. They basically have to yell and even then, it doesn’t always work. The constant but polite emails to parents about not parking IN neighbor’s empty driveways (which I have observed myself after initially being skeptical that that was really happening) also don’t help. So yeah, sometimes parents deserve to get yelled at.

[minzy]

Part of the reason we drive to middle school (in a carpool) is because of the weight of the backpacks. There is not time between classes to dump stuff off at a locker so kids are carrying everything (including of course their chromebooks) all day long. The hallways are so congested (it’s like a crowded airport apparently) that rolling bags are either not allowed or are not logistically feasible. My kid may have (appt next week), and at least one of the others in one of our carpool does have, legitimate orthopedic issues as a result of the weight of the backpacks. So yes I can say you should walk or ride your bike 3.5 miles round trip, but even with the drops at the door my kid is complaining of daily shoulder pain.

I do stress that the kids need to be early when it’s our turn to drive in because we have, ya know, jobs. Even an extra three or four minutes by one kid can result in a huge swing as the line backs up of 20-25 more minutes for the driver to make the full loop.

[Deleted]

[mention]minzy [/mention] we see kids walking to our neighborhood middle school, and not only are the backpacks huge (because apparently they built a school without lockers), but most of them also have large lunch boxes that don’t fit in their backpacks, and are carrying large musical instruments for band! It’s nuts. A kid could maybe bike or scooter with just the backpack, but with a lunchbox and instrument I don’t see how that would be possible.

[dcrunnergirl52]

Apr 17, 2024 21:00:25 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Are kids not allowed to start walking to be picked up at a less busy spot? We live in an urban neighborhood so maybe it's different in the suburbs, but even in elementary school many kids walked to school in groups or on their own. If parents wanted to pick them up they could stop a few blocks away from school.

There are no pickup lines at any of the schools I know.

Our school highly discourages this (but really has no way to police it). I think it's because the place where kids would walk to is already flooded with walkers crossing the various side streets, and having extra cars in the neighborhood poses a safety risk.

[pixy0stix]

To address the heavy backpacks and bikes - you can put racks and panniers on the bike so you're not wearing a backpack. Some of the kids here that I see in the morning have little bike trailers that they put their big instruments on.

[Jalapeñomel]

Apr 17, 2024 19:33:05 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Apr 17, 2024 16:26:50 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I have an innovative solution for *waves hands* all of this...

Would this innovative solution happen to be…yellow?

My district went to a fleet of electric buses, and hardly anyone does pick up these day! walla! 

[penguingrrl]

Apr 17, 2024 22:16:12 GMT -5 sent said:

penguingrrl, every time you post about your town, it's like a word for word description of my town. Except I know you're living the 2.5 square mile town life a bit south of me. We have the same exact procedures for elementary and apparently both also live right across from our middle schools.

Too funny! I don’t think I’m ever terribly far south of you, but NJ really is dotted with these tiny towns!

[elleblue]

The city we lived in previously (in SoCal) got rid of their school busses around 2010, which is just crazy to me. Especially because the district had a policy of not letting children under 3rd grade walk or bike to school. I can only imagine how terrible the car line is at the local elementary schools since class sizes are usually around 29-30. Full schools for sure. We moved before my eldest went to kindergarten, so drop off there was never anything we had to deal with thankfully.

Now we're living in New England and we did the drop off/pickup thing for most of kindergarten, though by the end of the year last year she started taking the bus home. This year, in first grade, she's been a bus kid both directions, which is so much nicer, especially with a younger kid in tow. The busses here are fantastic and most kids ride the bus. Helpful because the neighborhoods here don't have sidewalks (a whole different experience for us). When our youngest starts kindergarten, she'll be a bus rider from the start. It helps that her older sister will be on the same bus for two years until she goes to the next school in fifth grade. I imagine they'll be bus riders all through school (see said lack of sidewalks).

[noodleoo]

My town has free busing for all students K through HS. But DD started K during Covid, so we drove because an exposure on the bus would mean 10 days out of school and it wasn't worth it. Prior to Covid, our elementary school didn't even have a drop off line! Everyone either took the bus, walked or just parked in the parking lot to drop off (since there were so few driving). The drop off line was rough 2020-2022, but since then it's actually pretty short and efficient. Most people went back to the buses. We still drive to drop off because we have to drive DD2 to daycare next door anyway and it saves us time in the morning. We walk to pick up. When DD2 starts K next year, I think we will try to use the bus since they can go together and in a few years they'll be old enough to walk on their own.

I can't believe schools actually sell parking spots to the highest bidder. That seems insane to me! Equity is such a huge thing in our district, I don't think that would ever fly.

[wawa]

Apr 18, 2024 5:52:39 GMT -5 minzy said:

Part of the reason we drive to middle school (in a carpool) is because of the weight of the backpacks. There is not time between classes to dump stuff off at a locker so kids are carrying everything (including of course their chromebooks) all day long. The hallways are so congested (it’s like a crowded airport apparently) that rolling bags are either not allowed or are not logistically feasible. My kid may have (appt next week), and at least one of the others in one of our carpool does have, legitimate orthopedic issues as a result of the weight of the backpacks. So yes I can say you should walk or ride your bike 3.5 miles round trip, but even with the drops at the door my kid is complaining of daily shoulder pain.

I do stress that the kids need to be early when it’s our turn to drive in because we have, ya know, jobs. Even an extra three or four minutes by one kid can result in a huge swing as the line backs up of 20-25 more minutes for the driver to make the full loop.

what the shit are we DOING.  Like, literally add 7 minutes to the school day to have an extra minute between periods so that doesnt' have to happen.  7 minutes is not the make or break on any goddamn contracts.  Figure it out.  
(not you minzy, unless you're the school super, in which case, what the fuck, WHY.)

can you ask your kid's doc for a note that says he can only carry 2 periods of books at a time and must be given time to access a locker?  Might not work, but I'd be a polite and persistent asshole about it if it's really that big of an issue.

Alternatively, the school should be looking at doing what all my math and science teachers did, where each desk just had a copy of the text at it so we had one we kept at home for homework and the shared one in class.  done.  No more lugging that giant calc book back and forth every day.  It's only max 30 more copies.  Weighted against the cost of actual injuries and a busier car loop with all the impacts that entails...seems like a no brainer for the community.

[redheadbaker]

Apr 18, 2024 7:42:56 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

To address the heavy backpacks and bikes - you can put racks and panniers on the bike so you're not wearing a backpack. Some of the kids here that I see in the morning have little bike trailers that they put their big instruments on.

I didn't even think about backpacks.

Most kids don't bike to school in our town because the school doesn't have bike racks to secure the bikes during the day.

[abs]

Apr 18, 2024 8:35:42 GMT -5 wawa said:

Apr 18, 2024 5:52:39 GMT -5 minzy said:

Part of the reason we drive to middle school (in a carpool) is because of the weight of the backpacks. There is not time between classes to dump stuff off at a locker so kids are carrying everything (including of course their chromebooks) all day long. The hallways are so congested (it’s like a crowded airport apparently) that rolling bags are either not allowed or are not logistically feasible. My kid may have (appt next week), and at least one of the others in one of our carpool does have, legitimate orthopedic issues as a result of the weight of the backpacks. So yes I can say you should walk or ride your bike 3.5 miles round trip, but even with the drops at the door my kid is complaining of daily shoulder pain.

I do stress that the kids need to be early when it’s our turn to drive in because we have, ya know, jobs. Even an extra three or four minutes by one kid can result in a huge swing as the line backs up of 20-25 more minutes for the driver to make the full loop.

what the shit are we DOING.  Like, literally add 7 minutes to the school day to have an extra minute between periods so that doesnt' have to happen.  7 minutes is not the make or break on any goddamn contracts.  Figure it out.  
(not you minzy, unless you're the school super, in which case, what the fuck, WHY.)

can you ask your kid's doc for a note that says he can only carry 2 periods of books at a time and must be given time to access a locker?  Might not work, but I'd be a polite and persistent asshole about it if it's really that big of an issue.

Alternatively, the school should be looking at doing what all my math and science teachers did, where each desk just had a copy of the text at it so we had one we kept at home for homework and the shared one in class.  done.  No more lugging that giant calc book back and forth every day.  It's only max 30 more copies.  Weighted against the cost of actual injuries and a busier car loop with all the impacts that entails...seems like a no brainer for the community.

I’m not even sure this would help. Our school actually removed all lockers and the passing periods are meant to give you just enough time to get to one class to another while walking with purpose. The schools are so overcrowded and they just don’t want kids in the hallways at all. It’s a safety thing. The less time in hallways the less fights that break out.

All they really need is a Chromebook, pencils, and a few notebooks anyways but somehow that still weighs a ton because the cases they put on the Chromebooks are ridiculously bulky and heavy.

I feel like we just talked about this subject a few months ago. Lots of problems. No great solutions. As always it comes down to money. We need more funding for more schools, more buses, and more sidewalks. Alas my state won’t give districts any more funding and are holding it all hostage in the name of vouchers so here we are. I end up picking up DD from school way more than I ever thought I would.

[pixy0stix]

Apr 18, 2024 9:01:49 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Apr 18, 2024 7:42:56 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

To address the heavy backpacks and bikes - you can put racks and panniers on the bike so you're not wearing a backpack. Some of the kids here that I see in the morning have little bike trailers that they put their big instruments on.

I didn't even think about backpacks.

Most kids don't bike to school in our town because the school doesn't have bike racks to secure the bikes during the day.

That seems like an easy fix that the PTA could fundraise for. Bike racks aren't too expensive. Installation is easy, too.

ETA: Things like this are wild to me because they're SO EASY to fix. A quick search brought up 10 spot bike racks for around $300. All it takes is one interested party, and BAM bike racks for everyone! Start slow, show that there is a need. Apply for a grant from Safe Routes to School, or even your local bike clubs, and you're in business.

[CrazyLucky]

Apr 17, 2024 16:36:38 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

OMG. I hate every single person in that article. The mom suing because she was publicly embarrassed for being a dumbass? Perfection.

Also, Windsor, CO isn't very big. Why the fuck were they waiting 45 min for pick up, and why did they pay that much money? Also, I'm going there, those eyebrows went out of fashion a while ago. Were they drawn on by marker?

I wasn't planning to read the article until you mentioned the eyebrows. LOL.



I've only had to drop off the kids a couple of times. They usually take the bus. This article reaffirms that decision.  Can you imagine bringing a gun to the school drop off line?!?!
I walked to school when I was a kid, and my kids' schools up to 6th grade are within walkable distance.  The problem for me is lack of sidewalks.  I'm not having them walk on the 6" wide shoulder of a 50mph road.

[macmars45]

Apr 18, 2024 9:20:19 GMT -5 CrazyLucky said:

Apr 17, 2024 16:36:38 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

OMG. I hate every single person in that article. The mom suing because she was publicly embarrassed for being a dumbass? Perfection.

Also, Windsor, CO isn't very big. Why the fuck were they waiting 45 min for pick up, and why did they pay that much money? Also, I'm going there, those eyebrows went out of fashion a while ago. Were they drawn on by marker?

I wasn't planning to read the article until you mentioned the eyebrows. LOL.



I've only had to drop off the kids a couple of times. They usually take the bus. This article reaffirms that decision.  Can you imagine bringing a gun to the school drop off line?!?!
I walked to school when I was a kid, and my kids' schools up to 6th grade are within walkable distance.  The problem for me is lack of sidewalks.  I'm not having them walk on the 6" wide shoulder of a 50mph road.

I had to do that to & from to my bus stop 6th-half of 8th. I found out what a catcall was when I was walking to the bus as an 11 yr old. They were catcalling my 13 year old sister. Talk about feeling unsafe. Stay on the 6" of space next to the gross men who regularly catcalled my sister or walk in the ditch full of trash.

Then we moved and the bus stopped right next to our house. Much better situation.

[pixy0stix]

Apr 18, 2024 9:20:19 GMT -5 CrazyLucky said:

Apr 17, 2024 16:36:38 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

OMG. I hate every single person in that article. The mom suing because she was publicly embarrassed for being a dumbass? Perfection.

Also, Windsor, CO isn't very big. Why the fuck were they waiting 45 min for pick up, and why did they pay that much money? Also, I'm going there, those eyebrows went out of fashion a while ago. Were they drawn on by marker?

I wasn't planning to read the article until you mentioned the eyebrows. LOL.



I've only had to drop off the kids a couple of times. They usually take the bus. This article reaffirms that decision.  Can you imagine bringing a gun to the school drop off line?!?!
I walked to school when I was a kid, and my kids' schools up to 6th grade are within walkable distance.  The problem for me is lack of sidewalks.  I'm not having them walk on the 6" wide shoulder of a 50mph road.

This is where Wawa and I go ham on wanting people to advocate to their cities/local governments about improvements they see could happen.  There's government money out there to fix these deficiencies. 

[litebright]

The extended pick-up things mystifies me, but people do it around here. I am over at the school regularly for volunteer stuff and the first car or two is in line for pick-up at like 2:30 p.m. for dismissal at 3:40! 

Re: staff yelling at parents in the car line. How are you supposed to have someone in a car even hear you if you don't yell? Most people don't have their windows down.

Bussing has been SUCH a cluster in my district post-covid because of the bus driver shortage. It's better this year, but during a huge chunk of the last three years, there were multiple changes every few weeks in pick-up or drop-off times at the bus stop, busses having to do multiple runs so kids would either get there extremely early or late every day, and there were even a few times when some kids didn't get picked up at all--just really tough. At one point I think even our principal was driving a bus sometimes when drivers were out sick.

We are the smallest middle school in the county so we clear things out pretty fast, but our principal was saying at this week's PTO meeting that there are middle schools more than twice our size in terms of student numbers, where they cannot fit all the busses they need in the lot at the same time, they still have to do multiple shifts of boarding/bus runs and some kids don't even get on the bus until 45+ minutes after school gets out.

[Susie]

I go out of my way to avoid the car line at school (elementary).  It's is my personal hell, along with the ceaseless emails about car line minutiae.  We use the bus for the AM, and pick up from after school care in the evening when things are quiet and calm.  

I can totally see though how the buses come just a little too late for parents who don't WFH.  Our bus stop pickup is 8:53am, which is too late to get anywhere but my home desk by 9am.  However, kids can be dropped off starting at like 8:30 or 8:45 or so at school without paying for before care.  That puts parents a couple miles closer to downtown, and a few minutes earlier, which makes all the difference between getting to a downtown in person job by 9am, or not making it.  I suspect that given our town's geography, that is part of it.

[wawa]

Apr 18, 2024 9:07:18 GMT -5 abs said:

Apr 18, 2024 8:35:42 GMT -5 wawa said:

what the shit are we DOING.  Like, literally add 7 minutes to the school day to have an extra minute between periods so that doesnt' have to happen.  7 minutes is not the make or break on any goddamn contracts.  Figure it out.  
(not you minzy, unless you're the school super, in which case, what the fuck, WHY.)

can you ask your kid's doc for a note that says he can only carry 2 periods of books at a time and must be given time to access a locker?  Might not work, but I'd be a polite and persistent asshole about it if it's really that big of an issue.

Alternatively, the school should be looking at doing what all my math and science teachers did, where each desk just had a copy of the text at it so we had one we kept at home for homework and the shared one in class.  done.  No more lugging that giant calc book back and forth every day.  It's only max 30 more copies.  Weighted against the cost of actual injuries and a busier car loop with all the impacts that entails...seems like a no brainer for the community.

I’m not even sure this would help. Our school actually removed all lockers and the passing periods are meant to give you just enough time to get to one class to another while walking with purpose. The schools are so overcrowded and they just don’t want kids in the hallways at all. It’s a safety thing. The less time in hallways the less fights that break out.

All they really need is a Chromebook, pencils, and a few notebooks anyways but somehow that still weighs a ton because the cases they put on the Chromebooks are ridiculously bulky and heavy.

I feel like we just talked about this subject a few months ago. Lots of problems. No great solutions. As always it comes down to money. We need more funding for more schools, more buses, and more sidewalks. Alas my state won’t give districts any more funding and are holding it all hostage in the name of vouchers so here we are. I end up picking up DD from school way more than I ever thought I would.

i hate everything.

[wawa]

Apr 18, 2024 9:43:04 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Apr 18, 2024 9:20:19 GMT -5 CrazyLucky said:

I wasn't planning to read the article until you mentioned the eyebrows. LOL.



I've only had to drop off the kids a couple of times. They usually take the bus. This article reaffirms that decision.  Can you imagine bringing a gun to the school drop off line?!?!
I walked to school when I was a kid, and my kids' schools up to 6th grade are within walkable distance.  The problem for me is lack of sidewalks.  I'm not having them walk on the 6" wide shoulder of a 50mph road.

This is where Wawa and I go ham on wanting people to advocate to their cities/local governments about improvements they see could happen.  There's government money out there to fix these deficiencies. 

For specific words to say to your local officials - Safe streets for all funding can be used to pay for Safe Routes to School projects! They're handing it out like candy!!!!   it's not even hard.  The study funding can even be used to pay for demonstration projects.  LITERALLY MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS THE FEDS ARE BEGGING US TO SPEND ON SAFETY AND ACCESSIBLITY.  go get some.  The hardest part is the procurement to get the dollars spent, but like, you just need to get the ear of one decent county dot employee who will keep the ball rolling and get enough of your neighbors to agree with you that there is political interest so their bosses dont' squash it.

[wawa]

Apr 18, 2024 9:10:40 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Apr 18, 2024 9:01:49 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

I didn't even think about backpacks.

Most kids don't bike to school in our town because the school doesn't have bike racks to secure the bikes during the day.

That seems like an easy fix that the PTA could fundraise for. Bike racks aren't too expensive. Installation is easy, too.

ETA: Things like this are wild to me because they're SO EASY to fix. A quick search brought up 10 spot bike racks for around $300. All it takes is one interested party, and BAM bike racks for everyone! Start slow, show that there is a need. Apply for a grant from Safe Routes to School, or even your local bike clubs, and you're in business.

Where to send your school/town officials to apply for funding!
www.penndot.pa.gov/ProjectAndPrograms/Planning/Pages/safe-routes-to-school.aspx#:~:text=Safe%20Routes%20to%20School%20(SRTS,walk%20and%20bicycle%20to%20school.&text=planners%2C%20business%20and%20community%20leaders,and%20bicycle%20and%20pedestrian%20advocates.

[wawa]

TA set aside funding was increased across the board based on federal funding formulas, and most states use that in part to fund SRTS grants that schools and towns can apply for. That can fund things like educational outreach to try to shift behavior, can pay for training crossing guards or buying equipment, or can be used for infrastructure grants to cover things like bike racks, sidewalks, crosswalks. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF PETE if your community isn't taking advantage of this, try to find time and energy to be somebody who asks why the hell not. Repeatedly. If you're physically near me PM me and I might have more detailed info for you.

the link I shared above is for PA's version of the program, but the federal level very detailed info is here: www.fhwa.dot.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/ta.cfm
Suggested search terms for your state would be "[STATE] SRTS Grants" or "[STATE] TA Set Aside" or "[STATE] TAP Grant"

eta: half the battle with getting things done on the local level (maybe any level?) is knowing who to bug and where the money needs to come from. When it comes to things like improving how our kids get to school - that's NOT THE SAME MONEY as paying for the teachers or buildings. This isn't a "oh no, there's not money for anything, how can this be a priority?" Transportation money is it's own bucket and it's VERY FOCUSED at the federal level right now on this kind of thing, and it is DESIGNED to trickle down, but the giant ass flaw in the system is that only squeaky wheels get the grease in most places. It's largely grants and you have to ask for it.  The grants are at all lvels, so they can literally get a check to your school for $500 to pay for a bike rack, or your town can win several million to build new sidewalks everywhere.  It's a good time for optimism on this specific topic, but we have to be active about it.  

etaa: and now I stop because I do need to actually eat my lunch on my lunch break, not just furiously type.  LOL

[Patsy Baloney]

The folks I’ve observed doing early lineup seem to be the “idle and play on the phone” crowd.

Since we don’t have laws regarding idling, I’m hoping to create a project with our GS troop and partner with the schools on a no idling rule/no idling campaign. I was off of work through most of October last year and did a lot of pickups. Most everyone seems to drive non-hybrid/non-electric trucks, vans and SUVs and no one turns them off while waiting.

But perhaps we should also go HAM on the local govt to make an ordinance. I’m pretty fired up now reading all of this.

[shauni27]

these stories make me feel so fortunate. I do drop off 50% of the year and it is never an issue, maybe 1-2 cars in front of me. Pickup is rare because my child goes to an afterschool program, but on the rare occasions that I pick him up right at 3, the longest I have waited (with about 30-50 cars in front of me) has been 10 minutes tops.

[pixy0stix]

Ideas on departments to contact for local gov:
Engineering
Planning
Transportation planning/future planning
Street Maintenance
Public Works
And if all else fails, your local representative on the government.

[pixy0stix]

Apr 18, 2024 11:28:48 GMT -5 Patsy Baloney said:

But perhaps we should also go HAM on the local govt to make an ordinance. I’m pretty fired up now reading all of this.

Welcome to the dark side. We have cookies and all sorts of enthusiasm to get people to talk to their local government.