It sounds like her productivity is more an issue of her running her side business on company time. If she’s ducking out for showings, she also doing real estate related desk work. I wouldn’t needlessly punish all the parents over her side hustle. If I was a parent meeting my metrics while my 7 year old played Nintendo for an hour after school I would be very demoralized by such a policy. I know of SO MANY women who can’t return to work because they can’t find adequate childcare.
It sounds like her productivity is more an issue of her running her side business on company time. If she’s ducking out for showings, she also doing real estate related desk work. I wouldn’t needlessly punish all the parents over her side hustle. If I was a parent meeting my metrics while my 7 year old played Nintendo for an hour after school I would be very demoralized by such a policy. I know of SO MANY women who can’t return to work because they can’t find adequate childcare.
Yeah, this is what I meant by a too specific policy backfiring.
Susie, Are you sure you want to approve this employee to go from hybrid to full time WFH? If you already know she's slacking and not performing well, I'd just deny it. People like this are the ones who ruin WFH for the rest of us who are conscientious, reliable and really appreciate the privilege of being able to WFH.
Also, at my company, saving money on childcare would absolutely not be a valid reason to request WFH.
Speaking from HR, a company shouldn't make policies based on one individual. As a company it seems you have a policy in place, verbal but still precedent, that you just need to enforce. My suggestion would be to document what you have already said verbally to people regarding work from home.
I know childcare is a big topic, however you also need to think of those that do not have children and it could be seen as you giving preferential treatment to someone because of that. Ex: Allowing someone with a kid to WFH FT so they don't have childcare costs. What about the person who wants to WFH FT to not have commuting costs?
I also agree with others that this is an employee issue that you need to address. I imagine if you know she is doing this others do as well.
I know performance conversations are super awkward, but I think it would be best to just talk to her. Tell her that you are hesitant to approve her full time WFH status because her productivity is not where it should be. I think it's ok to tell her that you know that she's doing other work during the workday, and that you are concerned that adding more WFH days and childcare responsibilities into her schedule is going to result in even lower productivity. I think having a clear policy about outside employment is probably just as important here as a childcare one - something along the lines of "outside employment must happen outside of scheduled working hours and must not interfere with productivity".
Between those things I don't think this request should be approved, especially if she'd be the first one in the office being approved for it - it's not something you generally do so you'd be making an exception for her already.
For a childcare policy I think something like "other than in emergency or other extenuating circumstances, it is expected that all staff will not be providing continuous care to family during working hours."
Have you considered offering flex time? Like she could actually not work during hours when she'd need to bring the kid to the school or feed her breakfast or whatever, but those hours would need to be made up after school or in the evening. I am generally not someone who wants to be tracking hours (who cares if you work 37 hours a week if you are getting your work done?) but if you think she's not productive because she's not actually working full time, you could enforce those hours further.
It sounds like her productivity is more an issue of her running her side business on company time. If she’s ducking out for showings, she also doing real estate related desk work. I wouldn’t needlessly punish all the parents over her side hustle. If I was a parent meeting my metrics while my 7 year old played Nintendo for an hour after school I would be very demoralized by such a policy. I know of SO MANY women who can’t return to work because they can’t find adequate childcare.
Non-parent here, but I think this can be a slippery slope to us folks with caregiver needs outside of kids as well. I need a LOT of flexibility to take my dad to 8000 apts, literally sometimes 1 - 2 a week. I worked out of his place this week and got a lot less done, but I also stayed on longer to meet the duties expected of me. I'm not a hero, it's just what you do if you're allowed to flex to have a life. I guess my mind is worried that this policy could then swing to you can't have distractions, or you have to show exactly what you're doing every minute of the day if we're letting you WFH or at another location to use less PTO (in my case if I'm at my dad's I need at least 1.5 hrs less of PTO).
Plus this employee, and other employees will still have these schedule issues when their kids are older and in 100 activities that run from 3 PM - end of the work day and want to flex or start early for games, practices, doc apts and so on. Unfortunately it just never ends.
This is an employee issue. OP, is there enough work demand/business need for this employee to log in at 7:30 AM? I hate for them to lose that option as I work that early as well (although log off much later), but if there's not enough to do then an argument can be made they have to work later due to when tasks must be done. That gets complicated if they were hired on a certain schedule though. Anyway, if there is work she should be doing from 7:30 AM - X time then you or the supervisor needs to coach her and set reasonable metrics. If she can't get the work done outside of that time/extended hours of maybe a quick break for bus drop off as mentioned, then she can't work that early due to business needs. That has to be in place for everyone though, not just this one person kids, or no kids.
If there's a pattern that she steps away for a small block of time every day can an arrangement be made that she has a set break for 15 - 30 minutes to do whatever she needs to do (drop off)? In theory she should also work later to make up time if needed, but then that gets really tricky because everyone will want the same block of time off to pick up their kids, do something, then come home and finish their day at home with the kids doing other stuff.
Anyway, ranting here, but I'm also curious about the real estate stuff assuming she's not using her scheduled lunch break. Can that be addressed from an HR standpoint if she's posting it on say public social media with a time stamp?
Speaking from HR, a company shouldn't make policies based on one individual. As a company it seems you have a policy in place, verbal but still precedent, that you just need to enforce. My suggestion would be to document what you have already said verbally to people regarding work from home.
I know childcare is a big topic, however you also need to think of those that do not have children and it could be seen as you giving preferential treatment to someone because of that. Ex: Allowing someone with a kid to WFH FT so they don't have childcare costs. What about the person who wants to WFH FT to not have commuting costs?
I also agree with others that this is an employee issue that you need to address. I imagine if you know she is doing this others do as well.
THIIIS. Also ETA because I'm overly fired up about this, employees without kids, or employees with older kids should be able to flex their hours just the same as an employee with kids. They don't need a reason, but working a shift by 7:30 AM - 3:30 PM for example may be beneficial to the employee who may have family needs like I mentioned in my post above. We often get stuck with the crappiest schedules because "we don't have responsibilities" or we have "more flexibility" and can work whatever shift, when really can't.
Also wildrice said what I was trying to say about flexing hours, just in a more eloquent way I don't know how to quote 2 posts in 1.
Your update provides some context for why you are seeking a policy on child care requirements for WFH. But would she follow it? She is already dipping out on work hours for her side job (real estate). And she’s looking for WFH to avoid before-school care. Can you monitor that she actually drops off her child?
Also, on any given day, I can clock at least 50% of in-office co-workers wasting 20 minutes settling-in in the morning. The break room is next to my window. Is it better than the mom who is at the bus stop for 10 minutes?
Either she does her work or doesn’t. Doing all this work to create a policy to create a solution to a perceived at-home distraction seems like a waste of your time. I am often more distracted by co-workers in the office than my family at-home. Can’t solve everything.
I agree with this. I spend far more time not working at work than I do not working at home. Why is one ok but the other is not?
Your update provides some context for why you are seeking a policy on child care requirements for WFH. But would she follow it? She is already dipping out on work hours for her side job (real estate). And she’s looking for WFH to avoid before-school care. Can you monitor that she actually drops off her child?
Also, on any given day, I can clock at least 50% of in-office co-workers wasting 20 minutes settling-in in the morning. The break room is next to my window. Is it better than the mom who is at the bus stop for 10 minutes?
Either she does her work or doesn’t. Doing all this work to create a policy to create a solution to a perceived at-home distraction seems like a waste of your time. I am often more distracted by co-workers in the office than my family at-home. Can’t solve everything.
I agree with this. I spend far more time not working at work than I do not working at home. Why is one ok but the other is not?
We are networking and team building!! //sarcasm (this is the excuse we were given when made to come back to the office)
1. Performance review/ check in with the employee. I do like the idea of mentioning the side job and metrics before adjusting to 100% WFH.
2. A policy for working from home in general including information about children. This gets bit tricky because I am not really opposed to WFH when the kids are home for aftercare of beforecare. The problem with it being morning is maybe she is just spending that time getting her kid up and getting them ready. Aftercare is a bit more lenient because they can just do screens until the working parent is done and can do things like homework/ dinner.
If I had to throw out an age, I would say 9 is the age that the library allows children to be in the building unattended. The other tricky things with kids is there is a difference between an hour after school and having the kids home all summer long. DD is 11 and DH worked from home with both kids last summer (various camps interspersed but time at home also) and she was 10 then, and it went fine. He did his morning stuff they got lunch together and then I came home around 4:30.
I think a general policy is a good idea. And while pick up and drop offs might just be an hour a day, people who don't want to pay for before and aftercare might think it would be great to cut put the expense of summer camps as well.
For this employee I would absolutely deny full time WFH. She has proven that she is not as productive at home as she is in the office. You don't need to out a policy in place before telling her no, so I would get that done right away.
Post by definitelyO on May 2, 2024 15:34:48 GMT -5
the only thing our policy says around this is around "establishing and maintaining a suitable workspace" under these criteria - I can see that if the EE is on zoom calls all day and you can tell that there are children who are not at daycare or with a care provider then that could be raise a conversation. *not talking about a kid coming in to ask a question, etc...
The designated work area should provide: • Ergonomically sound seating, lighting, and writing or typing surfaces. • Adequate noise control to ensure clear telephone and video conference calls to colleagues and customers. • Freedom from distractions and interruptions that might affect workplace performance.
I don't know what kind of law you're in, but I also just thought about our annual financial disclosures to make sure no one has a conflict. And you are supposed to get an ethics check if you pick up any sort of secondary work.
We have a few employees who do pet sitting/dog walking, which is 100% fine, but they did have to run it by legal.
I don't know if real estate would be a conflict or just the optics.
Post by purplepenguin7 on May 2, 2024 15:42:36 GMT -5
My job is super flexible, hybrid (supposed to be 3x in a week in office but no one actually cares), and just general easy going. We don't have any written policies on telework and childcare. However, there is no way hell anyone would be approved for full time WFH with the reasoning being "I don't want to pay for before care". I think it's totally fair to say that is not an acceptable reason for fully remote. Do you have any other fully remote employees?
We don’t have a policy. We are an office of around 150. We all work 2 days at home and 3 days in office. Everyone I know has childcare. My kids are home from 330-430pm while I’m home (work ends at 430) and my boss knows and has no issue. Tomorrow I have a super important meeting so they are going to hang out somewhere else afterschool, but typically it’s not an issue. They are 9 and 14. Next year I will also have a kindergartener and I’m considering sending her to afterschool but honestly she is usually easier than the 9 year old. It’s so kid dependent.
I would not approve this, with the reason being that it's not a valid reason to WFH.
I would address the performance issues, and no way I'd approve additional WFH for someone who isn't high Meets or Exceeds expectations.
I would create a policy independent of the two items above if there are expectations of not providing caregiving while WFH, unless an individual has an approved exception.
A. Subject to confidentiality issues, employees are not prohibited from Teleworking while dependents are present, but Telework should not be considered a substitute for dependent care. If dependent care requirements would prevent an employee from devoting full attention to Telework, the employee is expected to make alternative dependent care arrangements or to propose an alternative Telework schedule agreeable to the employee’s supervisor.
ETA: Telework is only for employees who at least "Meet standards"
Post by thebreakfastclub on May 2, 2024 19:39:28 GMT -5
I'm a director in a large company. We WFH Mon & Fri and just have a generic requirement for childcare during work hours.
My 11yo get home at 3:45 so no way I'm paying for after school care for an independent child.
Rather than rewriting a policy and hoping for self-awareness, someone needs to have a conversation about what's not working. These are career limiting behaviors and the person needs to be explicitly told as much.
I guess another thing to consider is whether her compensation is still fair given the current cost of living. Thinking on this, two of her issues both relate to money - she has a side job and is trying to cut the cost of childcare. Is there anything else your firm can do to make it easier for her to be able to just work 1 job or more easily afford childcare? I know it's not simple to just raise salaries, but I do think it's not uncommon that "bad behavior" at work stems from people having too many competing needs and just not enough resources to meet all of them.
There are very few first graders who get ready in the morning independently. So this seems to me like she wants to basically get paid for getting her kid ready for school, feeding her kid breakfast, and getting the kid to school. I would nope that, and I’m generally a hippy dippy “so long as your work is getting done, who cares about your hours or your location” kind of person. I’m also always a fan of clear policies, though, and I think the federal government one is a good place to start. It makes clear that if she’s getting her kid ready and off to school, then she’s not working and can’t log that time as work time. And that her kid will need to be in aftercare as a result. Otherwise the kid will need to be in before-care if she wants to start early.
It’s pretty annoying when a company or department has a problem employee and instead of addressing that employee directly they come up with some blanket policies that then make that employees problems everyone else’s problem for no reason.
So just talk to this lady and be like hey I noticed you consistently aren’t meeting deadlines, you are regularly unavailable between 730 and 9am which are part of working hours, and you also frequently disappear during the day. We do need these deadlines met so let’s come up with a plan to address this and help you be successful in this role.
Nobody else in the department needs to be involved or affected, assuming they are doing fine and meeting their deliverables and expectations.
To me it seems like this person is already incredibly lucky to have secured the hybrid home/office work arrangement that she currently has. I would definitely not give her more WFH hours at this point.
I love the point that employers are often A-OKAY with parents WFH when it normally would have been a sick caregiving day. They love it when we can flex our productivity to do two things at once. Employers greatly benefit from that scenario. So I think employers should also allow a little flexibility for one off occasions for childcare gaps. That is why I don't think a policy needs to be specific.
For this specific employee, I think you are within your rights to deny her full time WFH request. Especially if there is already a policy in place for hybrid schedules. And then you need to document if she is slow with tasks and address that concern. Rather then write a whole policy to prevent her from forgoing before school care.
Also keep in mind you might screw a high performing employee over if you write to restrictive policies. Perhaps you have a rockstar employee doing everything right, but could get caught up in a new policy meant to punish one person. That person could end up leaving for a better opportunity.
I'm chiming in late to this thread but I agree with the others that this is mainly a performance issue. If her work doesn't meet the timeliness that you should address that issue separately than the work from home. I would just flat out tell her no on the WFH full time because avoiding child care is not a valid reason for WFH. I would put the 2 days WFH/3 days in the office policy in writing.
I don't think an age really works here, my son is 7 almost 8 and we could flex to be home in time to meet him at the bus but it would be a pain and give me zero flexibility in my day. I am confident that I could plop him in front of a screen and my work wouldn't be impacted, so why should my work care? When he is sick I frequently work from home rather than taking a day off. I have hundreds of hours of sick leave so I could take off, but it typically will impact my co-workers. If there was a blanket policy I would just take sick leave and the work wouldn't get done or someone else would have to pickup the slack.