@@ Surgeon General: Warning Label on Social Media

[neverfstop]

Let me know if you need a gift link- I'm not seeing it? So maybe it's not paywalled?  
www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/opinion/social-media-health-warning.html

It is time to require a surgeon general’s warning label on social media platforms, stating that social media is associated with significant mental health harms for adolescents. A surgeon general’s warning label, which requires congressional action, would regularly remind parents and adolescents that social media has not been proved safe. Evidence from tobacco studies show that warning labels can increase awareness and change behavior. When asked if a warning from the surgeon general would prompt them to limit or monitor their children’s social media use, 76 percent of people in one recent survey of Latino parents said yes.

[jinkies]

I think this is necessary.

I am currently reading The Anxious Generation which is about the damage being caused by a phone filled childhood. It's horrifying but I also recommend it. I'm actually reading it with my 16 year old, at the recommendation of one of his teachers.

[calmcosmo]

I think it's a step, but honestly I think this starts when kids are toddlers. I think a surgeon general warning is slapping a bandaid on a bullet wound, and it is only useful if parents actually heed the warning. At this point, none of the parents I socialize with actually follow age restrictions on YouTube, Snap, and Meta platforms so I guess I'm not hopeful that a warning would be enough to change anything.

I am a high school school counselor and my kids are teenagers. I have been a counselor for 18 years now and have had a unique front row seat to crumbling mental health of teens. Parenting culture has really leaned on screens in the past 10 years. I see toddlers in high chairs with phones in their faces at restaurants. In-car systems and ipads for kids on the shortest of drives. Youtube babysitters for babies. This develops an addiction extremely early on and as the kids age through childhood and into adolescence, they go from watching Youtube vidoes (appropriate or inappropriate) to TikTok videos to then having Snap and Insta and everything else. It's a cascade that happens rather organically, and many parents I work with do not think about it as it just "happens".

So, to me, the only reform is that parents band together and just say "enough is enough". This means being screen free in the early years and being extremely thoughtful about the screen time kids have through childhood. This makes parenting harder! But it is much harder if you are the only parent who is doing it. If ALL parents made the shift, the peer pressure could subside and kids wouldn't feel like a loser for not having whatever social media pops up. This is the premise of Haid's book "The Anxious Generation" - that we have to culturally reject giving babies, toddlers, and teens phones and tech.

For me, my kids weren't given any smart phone access until age 12 and were not allowed on social media at all until 8th grade. Even now, they cannot download apps without approval and we require spot checks on their phones often. Knowing what i know, I wish I could do more. But culturally, if I did what Haidt recommends, it would be extremely difficult for them to navigate their social lives.

TLDR: Maybe too little too late, unless there is a major shift culturally with parenting.

[erbear]

Jun 18, 2024 9:08:36 GMT -5 calmcosmo said:

I think it's a step, but honestly I think this starts when kids are toddlers. I think a surgeon general warning is slapping a bandaid on a bullet wound, and it is only useful if parents actually heed the warning. At this point, none of the parents I socialize with actually follow age restrictions on YouTube, Snap, and Meta platforms so I guess I'm not hopeful that a warning would be enough to change anything.

I am a high school school counselor and my kids are teenagers. I have been a counselor for 18 years now and have had a unique front row seat to crumbling mental health of teens. Parenting culture has really leaned on screens in the past 10 years. I see toddlers in high chairs with phones in their faces at restaurants. In-car systems and ipads for kids on the shortest of drives. Youtube babysitters for babies. This develops an addiction extremely early on and as the kids age through childhood and into adolescence, they go from watching Youtube vidoes (appropriate or inappropriate) to TikTok videos to then having Snap and Insta and everything else. It's a cascade that happens rather organically, and many parents I work with do not think about it as it just "happens".

So, to me, the only reform is that parents band together and just say "enough is enough". This means being screen free in the early years and being extremely thoughtful about the screen time kids have through childhood. This makes parenting harder! But it is much harder if you are the only parent who is doing it. If ALL parents made the shift, the peer pressure could subside and kids wouldn't feel like a loser for not having whatever social media pops up. This is the premise of Haid's book "The Anxious Generation" - that we have to culturally reject giving babies, toddlers, and teens phones and tech.

For me, my kids weren't given any smart phone access until age 12 and were not allowed on social media at all until 8th grade. Even now, they cannot download apps without approval and we require spot checks on their phones often. Knowing what i know, I wish I could do more. But culturally, if I did what Haidt recommends, it would be extremely difficult for them to navigate their social lives.

TLDR: Maybe too little too late, unless there is a major shift culturally with parenting.

Unfortunately, I'm here, word for word (not a counselor but a middle school teacher for 24 years). This is too little, too late. We need to target the next group of kids coming up. Of course, this requires some shifts in the world outside of parent control (affordable quality child care comes to mind) so unlikely to happen but we need to do something. Kids are not ok.

I got lucky. We have a cohort of parents around us who didn't give kids smartphones until 8th grade, who are adhering to the social media guidelines (yes, of course their kids are working around it, but less so than those with unfettered access!), who insist on outside time and phone-free meals and a wild 80s childhood, and still, my kids are on their phones too much. It is hard.

[wanderingback]

calmcosmo I generally agree with you that screen time has taken over in more of a negative way for most of us.
However, isn’t there a difference between screen time and specifically the harms of social media?

You mention that you didn’t give your kids any access to smart phones until the age of 12. My 19 month old doesn’t have screen time/access to a smart phone for tv or YouTube, but does FaceTime with family members on smart phones and will sometimes watch back videos we’ve recorded of her and our family. I think smart phones can have their ok place that I don’t think they need to be completely banned, but social media is a whole problem and lessening tv time in general is a good idea.

[neverfstop]

Thank you to the admin for adding @@ to the post title - sorry I forgot.

[pixy0stix]

Jun 18, 2024 9:39:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

calmcosmo I generally agree with you that screen time has taken over in more of a negative way for most of us.
However, isn’t there a difference between screen time and specifically the harms of social media?

Yes, screen time is vastly more harmful than social media. At least according to the studies that are out now. I was reading an article this morning that the effects of social media on kids is relatively unstudied even with this call for warning labels. Whereas there's a solid body of research regarding kids and screen time.

ETA article (gift) - wapo.st/45qI7AR

[lessel]

Jun 18, 2024 9:08:36 GMT -5 calmcosmo said:

So, to me, the only reform is that parents band together and just say "enough is enough". This means being screen free in the early years and being extremely thoughtful about the screen time kids have through childhood. This makes parenting harder! But it is much harder if you are the only parent who is doing it. If ALL parents made the shift, the peer pressure could subside and kids wouldn't feel like a loser for not having whatever social media pops up. 

TLDR: Maybe too little too late, unless there is a major shift culturally with parenting.

Excerpting some of your post to emphasize that it sure would be nice if the government supported families with accessible child care, parental leave, etc. bc parents turn to a lot of these things when they're in survival mode and juggling all of the things at once.

So beyond just being a personal parenting choice--where it is too easy to get judgy about how parents are parenting*--this should also be a political issue about how we support parents and families.

(*Not saying you are doing this at all.)

[pixy0stix]

Jun 18, 2024 10:11:51 GMT -5 lessel said:

Jun 18, 2024 9:08:36 GMT -5 calmcosmo said:

So, to me, the only reform is that parents band together and just say "enough is enough". This means being screen free in the early years and being extremely thoughtful about the screen time kids have through childhood. This makes parenting harder! But it is much harder if you are the only parent who is doing it. If ALL parents made the shift, the peer pressure could subside and kids wouldn't feel like a loser for not having whatever social media pops up. 

TLDR: Maybe too little too late, unless there is a major shift culturally with parenting.

Excerpting some of your post to emphasize that it sure would be nice if the government supported families with accessible child care, parental leave, etc. bc parents turn to a lot of these things when they're in survival mode and juggling all of the things at once.

So beyond just being a personal parenting choice--where it is too easy to get judgy about how parents are parenting*--this should also be a political issue about how we support parents and families.

(*Not saying you are doing this at all.)

Yes this, but also you could see just how much parenting has shifted to hands off during the pandemic when people had no idea what to do with their kids when no one could go anywhere or do anything. Vast swaths of our society had no idea how to cope. There has to be a happy middle ground where we can acknowledge that this is a societal problem outside of just being able to afford childcare.

[Scout'sHonor]

This was a pretty good conversation I heard last night on npr on how to slowly introduce it to teens: www.npr.org/2024/06/17/nx-s1-5008792/is-a-warning-label-for-social-media-enough

[wanderingback]

Jun 18, 2024 10:18:52 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jun 18, 2024 10:11:51 GMT -5 lessel said:

Excerpting some of your post to emphasize that it sure would be nice if the government supported families with accessible child care, parental leave, etc. bc parents turn to a lot of these things when they're in survival mode and juggling all of the things at once.

So beyond just being a personal parenting choice--where it is too easy to get judgy about how parents are parenting*--this should also be a political issue about how we support parents and families.

(*Not saying you are doing this at all.)

Yes this, but also you could see just how much parenting has shifted to hands off during the pandemic when people had no idea what to do with their kids when no one could go anywhere or do anything. Vast swaths of our society had no idea how to cope. There has to be a happy middle ground where we can acknowledge that this is a societal problem outside of just being able to afford childcare.

Agreed. It also feeds in to the over scheduled/curating all activities for kids these days that they don’t know how to play and/or be bored. Then parents feel like they’re doing something wrong and have to be hands on entertaining their kids all the time, which includes giving them screens.

One of our close friends (who is now divorced) has a son who is 8. I do not judge cause whatever, but every time we hang out he says nothing and is on his phone playing games and watching you tube the entire time. I’m an only child so was often hanging around adults/my parents friends so I know it can be "boring" but I think there can be a balance.

[lilac05]

Jun 18, 2024 10:00:04 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jun 18, 2024 9:39:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

calmcosmo I generally agree with you that screen time has taken over in more of a negative way for most of us.
However, isn’t there a difference between screen time and specifically the harms of social media?

Yes, screen time is vastly more harmful than social media. At least according to the studies that are out now. I was reading an article this morning that the effects of social media on kids is relatively unstudied even with this call for warning labels. Whereas there's a solid body of research regarding kids and screen time.

ETA article (gift) - wapo.st/45qI7AR

I feel like the true need is for more awareness of the harms of screen time in general! It’s not just social media. With everyone being on their phones so much (whether social media or otherwise) we’re impacting neurological function AND relationships…which can also significantly impact mental health. Playing hours of candy crush or watching hours of YouTube can be arguably as bad or worse than scrolling Instagram for the same length of time.

I think we’re making Social Media the scapegoat when the problem is so much bigger. Is social media a problem? Sure! But I don’t think it’s THE problem.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Jun 18, 2024 10:11:51 GMT -5 lessel said:

Jun 18, 2024 9:08:36 GMT -5 calmcosmo said:

So, to me, the only reform is that parents band together and just say "enough is enough". This means being screen free in the early years and being extremely thoughtful about the screen time kids have through childhood. This makes parenting harder! But it is much harder if you are the only parent who is doing it. If ALL parents made the shift, the peer pressure could subside and kids wouldn't feel like a loser for not having whatever social media pops up. 

TLDR: Maybe too little too late, unless there is a major shift culturally with parenting.

Excerpting some of your post to emphasize that it sure would be nice if the government supported families with accessible child care, parental leave, etc. bc parents turn to a lot of these things when they're in survival mode and juggling all of the things at once.

So beyond just being a personal parenting choice--where it is too easy to get judgy about how parents are parenting*--this should also be a political issue about how we support parents and families.

(*Not saying you are doing this at all.)

Being a single solo parent from the time she was 4y onwards, yes I relied on screens way.too.much bc there was no other parent to tap in. Parenting her by myself was already hard but doing it w/o screens so I could make dinner or take a shower, I needed to know that I could have her in a safe spot so I could get the 15-20 mins of uninterrupted time to get dinner ready. 

[calmcosmo]

Jun 18, 2024 9:39:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

calmcosmo I generally agree with you that screen time has taken over in more of a negative way for most of us.
However, isn’t there a difference between screen time and specifically the harms of social media?

You mention that you didn’t give your kids any access to smart phones until the age of 12. My 19 month old doesn’t have screen time/access to a smart phone for tv or YouTube, but does FaceTime with family members on smart phones and will sometimes watch back videos we’ve recorded of her and our family. I think smart phones can have their ok place that I don’t think they need to be completely banned, but social media is a whole problem and lessening tv time in general is a good idea.

What I mean is that generally parents give their kids screens very young. And just like toys evolve and people mature, so does what the kids consume on their screens. So while Facetime and Miss Rachel is innocent, when we start giving our children unsupervised screen time as a baby and toddler, it typically morphs into Instagram reels and Tiktok videos as adolescents. Social media shape-shifts. The harm caused by social media isn't widely understood (and it's still debated). Is it just consuming hours of unrealistic beauty standards? Pornography that our kids are exposed to on YouTube? Or is it literally getting bullied online by the mean girl at school? I personally think it's all of it. 

So no, I definitely think that tech has upsides. The curriculum I use in my school is called The Social Institute and the whole premise is giving teens the tools to use social media in ways that are positive and that can help them. Everything from college athletic recruiting to finding internships to presenting their art to advertising their philanthropies. Facetiming family is wonderful! But that isn't what Haidt or others are talking about. For myself, what I am seeing, is a pervasive addiction to screens that then lends itself to overconsumption of social media and other toxic outlets. And then when you try to wean the teens off of it, it is like going through withdrawal and even though they are not happy from their screens, they really really struggle to walk away from them. 

This topic is something I love to read about because it is so textured and complicated. There is no "one size fits all" model for this. But I do think that awareness of screen addiction and how it impacts adolescent use of media is a great first step to helping the next crew of kids who are currently being raised. 

[calmcosmo]

Jun 18, 2024 10:11:51 GMT -5 lessel said:

Jun 18, 2024 9:08:36 GMT -5 calmcosmo said:

So, to me, the only reform is that parents band together and just say "enough is enough". This means being screen free in the early years and being extremely thoughtful about the screen time kids have through childhood. This makes parenting harder! But it is much harder if you are the only parent who is doing it. If ALL parents made the shift, the peer pressure could subside and kids wouldn't feel like a loser for not having whatever social media pops up. 

TLDR: Maybe too little too late, unless there is a major shift culturally with parenting.

Excerpting some of your post to emphasize that it sure would be nice if the government supported families with accessible child care, parental leave, etc. bc parents turn to a lot of these things when they're in survival mode and juggling all of the things at once.

So beyond just being a personal parenting choice--where it is too easy to get judgy about how parents are parenting*--this should also be a political issue about how we support parents and families.

(*Not saying you are doing this at all.)

No offense taken! That is a great question!

My husband has been active duty Navy for 22 years. He was gone A TON when my kids were little and I completely understand exhaustion and needing a moment. As a counselor, I try not to judge anything (truly!) so my commentary isn't meant to be read with a judgy tone, but more of a "holy crap we are in a really low place for mental health and we - the adults - need to do better to set our kids up for success". 

I think something that I learned from solo parenting with less screens (I allowed them, but highly restricted) was that kids are more creative than we give them credit for. We are just used to handing them a screen, but if you put them in a room with other items they will occupy themselves that way too. When I was in graduate school, one of my classmates was older and had kids (I did not have kids then) said that he only allowed screen/movie time on a car ride 2+ hours long. His motto is "kids need to learn to deal with their boredom". I implemented that rule myself when I became a parent and it worked out fine. Sometimes kids just need to watch the raindrops race down the window, you know?

[pixy0stix]

We had a thread in October that touched on kid's today having less independence and how that might be fueling the decline in mental health - pandce.proboards.com/thread/639624/children-today-less-independence

Which I think ties nicely into the "we don't let kids be bored" in that we shove screens in their faces for entertainment rather than letting them figure out what to do to entertain themselves. In large part because it's painful as a parent to have to navigate the "I'm bored" or the "I need attention right now right now" from our kids.

[scm1011]

Jun 18, 2024 12:28:53 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

We had a thread in October that touched on kid's today having less independence and how that might be fueling the decline in mental health - pandce.proboards.com/thread/639624/children-today-less-independence

Which I think ties nicely into the "we don't let kids be bored" in that we shove screens in their faces for entertainment rather than letting them figure out what to do to entertain themselves. In large part because it's painful as a parent to have to navigate the "I'm bored" or the "I need attention right now right now" from our kids.

I thought of that thread when reading this too. My kids (5 & 7) watch TV but are otherwise mostly-screen free (they have kindle fires that come out for road trips to my in-laws). I am definitely more free range than many here it seems, and I think that has helped them be really good at entertaining themselves. I have no childcare today and I'm working from home. They've been outside since 10am doing god knows what. I can hear them happily yelling and splashing in the kiddie pool out back, DD taught herself to ride a bike this morning, they made an entire chalk city for matchbox cars in the driveway, among whatever else I haven't witnessed. I poke my head out if I go to long without hearing them but otherwise you do you, kiddos. 

[waverly]

I agree with what everyone has posted and have finished the Anxious Generation book.

For me, and certain personality types, social media can make us feel "bad" because it's overwhelming, constantly in your face, all the things that you don't have or that people are doing without you that you would never know about otherwise. For kids, this includes all of the above and bullying.

Now then, on both social media and elsewhere are the "internet junk food" the bad you tube videos, tik tocs etc that go from harmless but ugh to REALLY bad like eating disorders, alt right consipracy theory content and more.

So I would kind of rate them higher harm than say some video games and TV. Video games that we avoid are ones where they can chat with strangers and there is the history of adult males trying to chat with kids in certain games. Video games are more addictive than TV.

We frequently watch TV as a family and find that to be the least offensive because we watch content together so it is more appropriate, and we can discuss issues and can be "family bonding time" depending on how they like the show or movie.

But overall screen time does take away from kids going out and doing things and having fun.

I've been working on DS on texting his friends skills. That is going well, but the kids are busy, so even though he texts for in person meet ups, they are busy etc. and then they end up playing on video games anyway. The same goes with DD who is on face time and games with her friends for hours. And her friends have declined sleepovers one because of their culture and the other one because of her softball and sports committments. I also find that parents- even who are not working, don't want to drive their kid over our house even if we are offering to host, so then the default is they talk online or play video games online. So as I am trying to increase friends in the summer because there is no school- the parents aren't into driving them to my house. And yes, I can pick them up, I guess, but I would need to plan after work for me. Neighbor friends have dwindled as the kids on both sides have outgrown the friendships which is typical I hear around the middle school age. So even though I am trying to push in person, "society" is trying to push them to just talk online so that the parents don't have to drive or deal with making in person plans. The most popular game with middle school boys is Fortnight which is played online, so instead of playing together in someone's basement they stop hanging out in person and go home to their own house and play online together.  Kind of defeats the purpose of kids gaming together in one spot.

I resort to just sending them to camp because even a 2 hour chat online with a friend still leaves like 14 more hours in the day of them doing what?...

Next year, DS loses a few camp options so I am going to really have to start pushing him to volunteer or get a job or something.  I really don't like him in the basement watching TV and playing video games all day.  

[waverly]

Jun 18, 2024 13:00:41 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

Jun 18, 2024 12:28:53 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

We had a thread in October that touched on kid's today having less independence and how that might be fueling the decline in mental health - pandce.proboards.com/thread/639624/children-today-less-independence

Which I think ties nicely into the "we don't let kids be bored" in that we shove screens in their faces for entertainment rather than letting them figure out what to do to entertain themselves. In large part because it's painful as a parent to have to navigate the "I'm bored" or the "I need attention right now right now" from our kids.

I thought of that thread when reading this too. My kids (5 & 7) watch TV but are otherwise mostly-screen free (they have kindle fires that come out for road trips to my in-laws). I am definitely more free range than many here it seems, and I think that has helped them be really good at entertaining themselves. I have no childcare today and I'm working from home. They've been outside since 10am doing god knows what. I can hear them happily yelling and splashing in the kiddie pool out back, DD taught herself to ride a bike this morning, they made an entire chalk city for matchbox cars in the driveway, among whatever else I haven't witnessed. I poke my head out if I go to long without hearing them but otherwise you do you, kiddos. 

This partially depends on the area in which you live in and the kids' maturity.  Growing up rural, I had a whole acre to play in at age 5. 

But at age 5 & 7 in our neighborhood now they needed more supervision because of the small yard and spill out into the road situation. They would be more "free range" when they are older because they can bike and walk to more places than rural, but for the younger ages they weren't free range based on our small yard.  

[wanderingback]

Jun 18, 2024 13:52:04 GMT -5 waverly said:

Jun 18, 2024 13:00:41 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

I thought of that thread when reading this too. My kids (5 & 7) watch TV but are otherwise mostly-screen free (they have kindle fires that come out for road trips to my in-laws). I am definitely more free range than many here it seems, and I think that has helped them be really good at entertaining themselves. I have no childcare today and I'm working from home. They've been outside since 10am doing god knows what. I can hear them happily yelling and splashing in the kiddie pool out back, DD taught herself to ride a bike this morning, they made an entire chalk city for matchbox cars in the driveway, among whatever else I haven't witnessed. I poke my head out if I go to long without hearing them but otherwise you do you, kiddos. 

This partially depends on the area in which you live in and the kids' maturity.  Growing up rural, I had a whole acre to play in at age 5. 

But at age 5 & 7 in our neighborhood now they needed more supervision because of the small yard and spill out into the road situation. They would be more "free range" when they are older because they can bike and walk to more places than rural, but for the younger ages they weren't free range based on our small yard.  

To clarify, "free range" doesn’t necessarily mean not watching your kids in the yard. From the previous discussion we had that pixy linked it’s that kids have less play time and less unstructured activities which is detrimental to development.

I live in a busy city, so it’s going to be awhile until I let her roam free because of concerns about her being able to navigate crossing streets with shitty drivers (vs if we had a large backyard). However, I will walk with her to the playground and sit on a bench while watching her navigate playing with others and conflicts vs scheduling every day of the week with an activity.

[scm1011]

Jun 18, 2024 13:52:04 GMT -5 waverly said:

Jun 18, 2024 13:00:41 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

I thought of that thread when reading this too. My kids (5 & 7) watch TV but are otherwise mostly-screen free (they have kindle fires that come out for road trips to my in-laws). I am definitely more free range than many here it seems, and I think that has helped them be really good at entertaining themselves. I have no childcare today and I'm working from home. They've been outside since 10am doing god knows what. I can hear them happily yelling and splashing in the kiddie pool out back, DD taught herself to ride a bike this morning, they made an entire chalk city for matchbox cars in the driveway, among whatever else I haven't witnessed. I poke my head out if I go to long without hearing them but otherwise you do you, kiddos. 

This partially depends on the area in which you live in and the kids' maturity.  Growing up rural, I had a whole acre to play in at age 5. 

But at age 5 & 7 in our neighborhood now they needed more supervision because of the small yard and spill out into the road situation. They would be more "free range" when they are older because they can bike and walk to more places than rural, but for the younger ages they weren't free range based on our small yard.  

I live in a city. We have a very small backyard (Zillow says my lot is 3300 sq feet). We are not on a Main Street, but DD taught herself to ride her bike this morning on our city sidewalk. They pretty much have free range of our block.

ETA: wanderingback, they are not allowed to cross the street alone but can go up and down the block on our side all they want.

[waverly]

wanderingback , true. I just usually think of it as free range outside as opposed to free range inside my house lol.

We were on the less scheduled path with 1 sport and Scouts. But sports ramps up in middle school, and I don't love it.

ETA- is there an age where we don't call it free range because it is just normal for high schoolers to roam around.  Like after 14, would you even call it free range?  Sorry- random thoughts of the day.

[Michelle]

We are going to have to start with ourselves.

Look at this page. It used to be so busy. It stopped being busy when the variety of social media apps expanded. Did our audience shift to different online forums, or shift their attention to apps?

I know for myself, i like utilizing reports on my phone that tell me how much I've been on it, although I'd argue that listening to a novel on audible for 7 hours on Saturday wasn't quite the same thing as scrolling a social media app. ;-) However, i also like the app TikTok because I set the limit of one hour after which it tells me i've reached my max time. If i bypass that, it also has little messages that pop up and say things like, "Hi - looks like you've been scrolling for some time. Maybe it's time for a break?"

I'm sure I'm embarrassing myself that I've been on long enough to trigger those things, but kids model their behavior after their grownups. My kid loves to stick her nose in a book because that is how we spent a lot of her childhood. My niece can't bring herself to read a book because no one ever read to her... because her mom was never read to (and my brother's job kept him from being able to do that with her).

My kid also asked for a paper version of sudoku because i tried to shift my focus away from my home and started doing paper puzzles. That isn't green, but it's less screen time and a good anxiety channel.

A friend of ours has device-free Sundays for everyone in her home, including grownups. If you need to reach them, you have to call the land line. Her kids used to hate her for it, but they are the little monsters biking all over the neighborhood like we used to as kids. I think it's brilliant.

[Jalapeñomel]

Part of the problem is me, and the amount of time I spend on screens. It’s hard to break, at least for most of us.


Is all screen time equal? Is me playing on my phone the same as watching tv? Many of us grew up watching tv, but definitely not the extent we do now (and the amount of programming—-I don’t have to watch the news or football because that’s all my dad wanted to watch).

What about for kids? Is watching Frozen on tv the same as being able to push buttons on an iPad?

[pixy0stix]

Jun 18, 2024 16:05:16 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

What about for kids? Is watching Frozen on tv the same as being able to push buttons on an iPad?

For kids there's no differential between tv and other electronic devices when talking about screen time in the research.

[Jalapeñomel]

Jun 18, 2024 10:00:04 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jun 18, 2024 9:39:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

calmcosmo I generally agree with you that screen time has taken over in more of a negative way for most of us.
However, isn’t there a difference between screen time and specifically the harms of social media?

Yes, screen time is vastly more harmful than social media. At least according to the studies that are out now. I was reading an article this morning that the effects of social media on kids is relatively unstudied even with this call for warning labels. Whereas there's a solid body of research regarding kids and screen time.

ETA article (gift) - wapo.st/45qI7AR

This is an interesting article—- we don’t have enough data.

As a HS teacher, I do see the SM issues that impact the MH my students. However, I don’t know what it was like to teach without it.

[Jalapeñomel]

Jun 18, 2024 16:07:22 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jun 18, 2024 16:05:16 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

What about for kids? Is watching Frozen on tv the same as being able to push buttons on an iPad?

For kids there's no differential between tv and other electronic devices when talking about screen time in the research.

This is interesting to me, because I would’ve thought that having an iPad would be different—-access to a plethora of apps/movies/rtc, and the ability to switch at a moment vs zoning out on Sesame Street.

Edited to add a link to a Slate article: slate.com/human-interest/2024/04/tv-ipad-screentime-differences-kids.html

And another one:

www.bbc.com/future/article/20200925-how-screen-time-affects-childrens-brains

[sent]

Jun 18, 2024 6:29:00 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Let me know if you need a gift link- I'm not seeing it? So maybe it's not paywalled?  
www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/opinion/social-media-health-warning.html

I can't read it and would appreciate a gift link.

Also is YouTube considered social media?

I am of the "TV is better than a tablet/phone" philosophy for pretty much all the reasons in the Slate article. I know I'm in the minority. I did not give my kids tablets or phones when they were babies and toddlers. This meant I had to sacrifice things like going to a restaurant dinner with grownups where the kids are expected to sit at the table. Our fancy plane vacations came to a halt. We stayed local a lot and became very boring adults but the kids didn't know the difference. In the car, we listen to a lot of old school CDs so they don't have to mess with my phone. COVID was very hard to get through with a 2 yr old and 6 yr old with no phones or tablets and DD didn't know how to use a computer either. 

We already know us Americans are very bad at self-regulating anything that give us those dopamine hits whether it's cigarettes or Doritos or reels. A warning label could be a start. 

[scm1011]

As I noted above my kids are fairly screen free, but I am definitely addicted to my phone and really need to get a handle of it before they’re at an age where their peers are getting phones and it’s harder to avoid. I set a terrible example for sure.

[neverfstop]

Jun 19, 2024 12:57:25 GMT -5 sent said:

Jun 18, 2024 6:29:00 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Let me know if you need a gift link- I'm not seeing it? So maybe it's not paywalled?  
www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/opinion/social-media-health-warning.html

I can't read it and would appreciate a gift link.

sent Here you go. www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/opinion/social-media-health-warning.html?unlocked_article_code=1.000.QYIO.cnNv3pfpLJzq&smid=url-share