Fall Marathon Training Randoms

[wawa]

Feeling better, got my 14 miles in!

[campermom]

I did the 18 miler. I had to break it up in chunks-I had my daughter 30 out of 31 days this month, and my son 29 out of 31. My oldest son didn’t even go. Anyway-I started at 8, had my parents watch the little one for 10 miles. Had to run the oldest to a party a half hour away and took the littles to lunch and clothes shopping. Did 4 at the gym. Came home, did 2 more stops, took my youngest for 2.5 skateboard miles. Did the last 1.5 outside solo near the house.

My mental toughness has wavered for about 2 years but I think it’s safe to say it’s back.

[scm1011]

Wow, campermom - that’s some dedication !! Go you!

Also good luck to brooke77 today in Chicago!!! Enjoy your victory lap!!

[Susie]

Ok I feel brand damn new at this, but:

What do you all eat on race morning when you're in a hotel and don't have a toaster?  Everything I eat at home before long runs seems to go in the toaster (toast with PB, English muffins with PB, etc.) and I'm realizing I need to change that up.  I did eat a PBJ sandwich before my 20 miler figuring I'd def be able to replicate that on race day.

Since kids I've kept all my racing locally until now, so I haven't traveled for a race since 2014!  I forget my travel breakfast routine entirely.

[scm1011]

Susie, do you have a small enough toaster to pack? Or does the hotel you’re staying at have toaster for continental breakfast? I always eat a bagel before long runs but I’m fine with eating it untoasted.

[Susie]

Oct 14, 2024 18:24:25 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

Susie , do you have a small enough toaster to pack? Or does the hotel you’re staying at have toaster for continental breakfast? I always eat a bagel before long runs but I’m fine with eating it untoasted.

No way I could bring a toaster.  I'm flying down on a teeny little regional plane, and it's always hard to pack small enough to use the overhead bins at all.  But I can do a PBJ sandwich, or untoasted bagel or similar and it'll be ok.  There's a walkable Trader Joe's and Whole Foods near where I'm staying, and I'm planning to pick up some breakfast items on Sat.

[brooke77]

Susie - if you can, I would pack a bagel and one of those single-serve PB. Instant oatmeal is another easy packing option, assuming your room will have hot water. If you are a coffee drinker, also check to see if there is a maker in your room (or bring some instant) because a lot of these races start before any coffee shops/cafes open. For big races, hotels also sometimes have a “breakfast” in the lobby - bagels, bananas, water, coffee.

[Susie]

Oct 16, 2024 12:35:31 GMT -5 brooke77 said:

Susie - if you can, I would pack a bagel and one of those single-serve PB. Instant oatmeal is another easy packing option, assuming your room will have hot water. If you are a coffee drinker, also check to see if there is a maker in your room (or bring some instant) because a lot of these races start before any coffee shops/cafes open. For big races, hotels also sometimes have a “breakfast” in the lobby - bagels, bananas, water, coffee.

For sure - MCM goes off at 7:55 so I'm not planning on being able to stop anywhere the morning of.  

I already picked up Sbux Via, my preferred instant coffee, so I know I will have that.  Bagel is a good plan.  I haven't road tested oatmeal before a long run so I'll avoid that for this time, but for future training cycles it's a good idea to try.  It sounds convenient for pre-race.

I'm planning to bring a disposable water bottle to the start so I can hydrate a bit while waiting around.  Do you usually eat anything more while waiting around the start?  At home I do my PBJ or toast or English muffin and then get going for my long runs like 20 mins later.  I have read reports from past MCMs of 20 minutes to get through security, or alternatively an hour, so I'm thinking of aiming to arrive 1.5 hour before the start.

Bib numbers came out tonight by email.  It feels very real and very close!

[laterz]

Oct 16, 2024 20:07:08 GMT -5 Susie said:

Oct 16, 2024 12:35:31 GMT -5 brooke77 said:

Susie - if you can, I would pack a bagel and one of those single-serve PB. Instant oatmeal is another easy packing option, assuming your room will have hot water. If you are a coffee drinker, also check to see if there is a maker in your room (or bring some instant) because a lot of these races start before any coffee shops/cafes open. For big races, hotels also sometimes have a “breakfast” in the lobby - bagels, bananas, water, coffee.

For sure - MCM goes off at 7:55 so I'm not planning on being able to stop anywhere the morning of.  

I already picked up Sbux Via, my preferred instant coffee, so I know I will have that.  Bagel is a good plan.  I haven't road tested oatmeal before a long run so I'll avoid that for this time, but for future training cycles it's a good idea to try.  It sounds convenient for pre-race.

I'm planning to bring a disposable water bottle to the start so I can hydrate a bit while waiting around.  Do you usually eat anything more while waiting around the start?  At home I do my PBJ or toast or English muffin and then get going for my long runs like 20 mins later.  I have read reports from past MCMs of 20 minutes to get through security, or alternatively an hour, so I'm thinking of aiming to arrive 1.5 hour before the start.

Bib numbers came out tonight by email.  It feels very real and very close!

I usually do some of a pop tart 20min before race starts, if I haven’t just eaten something.

[brooke77]

Susie - I don’t usually eat anything more while waiting, but I also typically don’t eat much for breakfast. A lot of people will have a gel while waiting in the corrals, so maybe pack an extra if you think you may want it. I think your plan sounds solid!!

[scm1011]

Oct 16, 2024 20:07:08 GMT -5 Susie said:

Oct 16, 2024 12:35:31 GMT -5 brooke77 said:

Susie - if you can, I would pack a bagel and one of those single-serve PB. Instant oatmeal is another easy packing option, assuming your room will have hot water. If you are a coffee drinker, also check to see if there is a maker in your room (or bring some instant) because a lot of these races start before any coffee shops/cafes open. For big races, hotels also sometimes have a “breakfast” in the lobby - bagels, bananas, water, coffee.

For sure - MCM goes off at 7:55 so I'm not planning on being able to stop anywhere the morning of.  

I already picked up Sbux Via, my preferred instant coffee, so I know I will have that.  Bagel is a good plan.  I haven't road tested oatmeal before a long run so I'll avoid that for this time, but for future training cycles it's a good idea to try.  It sounds convenient for pre-race.

I'm planning to bring a disposable water bottle to the start so I can hydrate a bit while waiting around.  Do you usually eat anything more while waiting around the start?  At home I do my PBJ or toast or English muffin and then get going for my long runs like 20 mins later.  I have read reports from past MCMs of 20 minutes to get through security, or alternatively an hour, so I'm thinking of aiming to arrive 1.5 hour before the start.

Bib numbers came out tonight by email.  It feels very real and very close!

OMG, right?! 
The timing works out well for me because I do best when I have an hour+ to digest. I definitely need to figure out the coffee situation ahead of time, so thanks for flagging that. 

[mrshandy]

Susie, and scm1011,

I ran MCM in 2022 and it definitely takes a long time to get through everything give yourself plenty of time to not only get through security but walk to the where the start line is. It's a whole big process.

I stayed at a hotel with no toaster for 100 miler and just ate the bagel untoasted. I like to bring a banana with me and eat it 30-60 min before race time.

Have a great race!

[scm1011]

Thanks, mrshandy!! An “if I need something” banana is a good idea.

I did my last “long” run today (8 miles). While I got in all my longs (save one shortened one), I blew off so many weekday runs. Hopefully it isn’t my downfall. Low expectations is the name of the game this go around lol.

[Susie]

My 8 miler is done too!  Miles 5-8 were the first time I've felt good in a week, lol.  The taper tantrums are hitting me hard.  

I've started laying out my stuff, and now with the warm forecast I'm second guessing tee vs. tank.  I have successfully run in tank + hydration vest without chafing, but most of those times were my old vest so I don't trust it.  Decisions decisions.

[wawa]

Oct 19, 2024 19:36:54 GMT -5 Susie said:

My 8 miler is done too!  Miles 5-8 were the first time I've felt good in a week, lol.  The taper tantrums are hitting me hard.  

I've started laying out my stuff, and now with the warm forecast I'm second guessing tee vs. tank.  I have successfully run in tank + hydration vest without chafing, but most of those times were my old vest so I don't trust it.  Decisions decisions.

I feel like the heat difference between a t and a tank is so minor when you're wearing a vest that it's worth the chafe protection.  But my pits/upper armssometimes chafes in a tank minus the vest so I'm careful about it. 

After my "training run" half this past weekend - a reminder for big races - stick a wad of TP in a ziplock in your pocket.  enough for two stops at least.  There was NO toilet paper in a single damn porta potty by the time I got to them in Baltimore on Saturday, and I remember the same a million years ago at MCM.  Hell, steal a whole roll from your hotel and be the most popular girl at the ball when you can just hand it out like candy in line and then ditch it.

[wawa]

Thoughts on splitting up a long run? I've got 18 next weekend (next weekend, meaning weekend after this coming one), but I'm camping with cub scouts and can't do a long run on saturday or sunday.
Trying to decide if I should do a like...10+8 on thursday and friday? I was going to say I could do one half thursday night and one half friday morning, but it's halloween. So no I can't.
Or, I get up at 3 AM for 18 friday morning before work. And then work all day. And then go camping with a bunch of 9 year olds.

I'm going to be exhausted either way, but 3 AM is officially getting up in the middle of the night in my mind, rather than just very early in the morning and I'm dreading it.
But maybe it's the right choice because I've blown off enough weekday runs that the long runs feel extra extra vital?
And friday is a normal weekday runday for me, so I'm already encroaching on my weekday mileage!

[scm1011]

wawa, can you take Friday (or Monday) off? Or be "sick"? I had a similar impossible weekend for my 19 miler and I just took Friday off to get it done. Getting up at 3am before work to run 18 sounds miserable (I agree - that is the middle of the night!).

If taking Friday off isn't an option, I think 10 + 8 Thursday and Friday is your best bet.

[Susie]

Oct 21, 2024 12:38:00 GMT -5 wawa said:

Thoughts on splitting up a long run? I've got 18 next weekend (next weekend, meaning weekend after this coming one), but I'm camping with cub scouts and can't do a long run on saturday or sunday.
Trying to decide if I should do a like...10+8 on thursday and friday? I was going to say I could do one half thursday night and one half friday morning, but it's halloween. So no I can't.
Or, I get up at 3 AM for 18 friday morning before work. And then work all day. And then go camping with a bunch of 9 year olds.

I'm going to be exhausted either way, but 3 AM is officially getting up in the middle of the night in my mind, rather than just very early in the morning and I'm dreading it.
But maybe it's the right choice because I've blown off enough weekday runs that the long runs feel extra extra vital?
And friday is a normal weekday runday for me, so I'm already encroaching on my weekday mileage!

oh god no.  Definitely not the bolded idea.  The run is important, but so is the recovery afterward in order to acclimate to the volume.  Plus also... this is supposed to be fun.  Type 2 fun to be sure, but fun in some fashion.

I forget how old your kids are, I'm guessing they need you for ToT on Thurs evening?  I used to love running on Halloween before I had kids, it was like roving entertainment seeing all the costumes!  But now mine are 5 and 8 and need a parent for ToT.  If I couldn't come up with a good alternative I might be tempted to get them dressed up, take some pics, go to the first few houses with them, and then send them with H or some of their friends' parents while I got some miles tucked in.  If you could get 6 or 8 done, then Fri AM becomes reasonable.  Splitting 12 hours apart sounds like a best case.

If you can't, then... hrm.  Friday morning + Sunday when you get back?  Miss a little work time on Fri AM?  Thur AM + Fri AM?  Fri AM + Mon AM?  Fri + Mon + deduct some miles for hiking over the weekend on the camping trip?

Also, if you come up a tad short on 18, that's ok too.  If you can manage 14-16, then pad a couple runs next week - or don't! - and it'll be ok.

[wawa]

Oct 21, 2024 13:53:39 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

wawa , can you take Friday (or Monday) off? Or be "sick"? I had a similar impossible weekend for my 19 miler and I just took Friday off to get it done. Getting up at 3am before work to run 18 sounds miserable (I agree - that is the middle of the night!).

If taking Friday off isn't an option, I think 10 + 8 Thursday and Friday is your best bet.

i...could.  kinda.  but not really.  because I'm already negative on PTO (I started this job in June, it was known that would happen).  If I can make up the hours I could make it work. I should figure that out.  Starting at 5 even would be so much more civilized.

[wawa]

Oct 21, 2024 14:07:01 GMT -5 Susie said:

Oct 21, 2024 12:38:00 GMT -5 wawa said:

Thoughts on splitting up a long run? I've got 18 next weekend (next weekend, meaning weekend after this coming one), but I'm camping with cub scouts and can't do a long run on saturday or sunday.
Trying to decide if I should do a like...10+8 on thursday and friday? I was going to say I could do one half thursday night and one half friday morning, but it's halloween. So no I can't.
Or, I get up at 3 AM for 18 friday morning before work. And then work all day. And then go camping with a bunch of 9 year olds.

I'm going to be exhausted either way, but 3 AM is officially getting up in the middle of the night in my mind, rather than just very early in the morning and I'm dreading it.
But maybe it's the right choice because I've blown off enough weekday runs that the long runs feel extra extra vital?
And friday is a normal weekday runday for me, so I'm already encroaching on my weekday mileage!

oh god no.  Definitely not the bolded idea.  The run is important, but so is the recovery afterward in order to acclimate to the volume.  Plus also... this is supposed to be fun.  Type 2 fun to be sure, but fun in some fashion.

I forget how old your kids are, I'm guessing they need you for ToT on Thurs evening?  I used to love running on Halloween before I had kids, it was like roving entertainment seeing all the costumes!  But now mine are 5 and 8 and need a parent for ToT.  If I couldn't come up with a good alternative I might be tempted to get them dressed up, take some pics, go to the first few houses with them, and then send them with H or some of their friends' parents while I got some miles tucked in.  If you could get 6 or 8 done, then Fri AM becomes reasonable.  Splitting 12 hours apart sounds like a best case.

If you can't, then... hrm.  Friday morning + Sunday when you get back?  Miss a little work time on Fri AM?  Thur AM + Fri AM?  Fri AM + Mon AM?  Fri + Mon + deduct some miles for hiking over the weekend on the camping trip?

Also, if you come up a tad short on 18, that's ok too.  If you can manage 14-16, then pad a couple runs next week - or don't! - and it'll be ok.

Hmmm....I don't want to miss ToT, but seeing them in their costumes and getting them to the first few houses might be good enough that it doesn't give me the sads...  If I can knock out a few miles that night, and then maybe miss an hour in the AM on friday that should all work out to be more reasonable.  Luckily MH will have already set up camp by the time I get there friday night, so I'll have an easy night and can just collapse into my sleeping bag after a hopefully quick leaders meeting.  And then supervise 9 year olds making breakfast for 30 people in the woods!  Wooo!  (I do actaully enjoy being a scout leader, but omg when you say it out loud sometimes it sounds insane.)

[scm1011]

MCM 2024 is in the books! This was marathon #3 for me and my slowest at 4:36, but also my most enjoyable. I didn't hit the wall until after mile 24 (compared to right around mile 20 the previous 2 races) and that made all the difference. I lined up with the 4:30 pacer to start but that pretty quickly felt unsustainable (despite doing my longs at that pace or better for the most part). The 4:35 pacer passed me by mile 4 and I just decided to give up any time goals and enjoy the ride. I ended up gaining back a bunch of time between miles 10 - 18 and ended with pretty even splits (2:17/2:18). I walked a bunch the last half mile or so which wasn't ideal but the wheels had fallen off the bus and the last hill to the finish was just too much for me at that point.

I really enjoyed MCM overall, but I feel like I didn't get to take in the sights as much as I anticipated I would. It felt pretty crowded the whole way and I really had to be mindful of the people around me. The walk from the finish line to my DH + kids and then to the train was brutal. I took for granted the 2 small marathons I did prior where DH just grabbed the car and I didn't have to hobble along far post-race

I was able to meet up with Susie pre-race and it was nice to have a buddy to chat with as I battled morning nerves Also thanks to mrshandy for the heads up about the long walk to the start.

Two days later and I'm still so so sore. My commute (which involves ~2 miles of walking each leg) was brutal this morning and I'm walking around the office like an extra from The Walking Dead.

[Susie]

MCM recap time!

This was my first marathon ever, so for starters:  I finished!  I got that medal, and that is a win.  I did not DNS, I did not DNF, and I've been advised many times that the first time, that should be your goal.  So I did it!  And I genuinely enjoyed so much of the day.  It was a great experience.  I met up with scm1011 in runner's village before the race, and had my H and one of my besties there to support on the course.  I saw them 7 separate times, at the start, miles 11, 16, 17.5, 19, 23, and the finish chute.  I have a ton of smiling pics, which is exactly how I'll remember the day.  Even the race photographers didn't get many or any TRULY gnarly ones.  I was so happy to be there and doing it.  Finishing a marathon was something I truly thought was outside what my body could do.

The actual running I will cop to being slightly disappointed with.  I had been running my long runs (16, 18, 20 miles) at about 10:35 - 10:46 average pace, so that was my bench mark.  Miles 1-3 were all in the 11's, and I thought that was sufficiently conservative.  Miles 4-18 were all in the range of 10:11-10:47.  I settled in with the 4:40 pace group around mile 8, and stayed with them until mile 18 when I lost them at a portapotty stop.  I stopped again just past mile 19 when I saw H for a hydration bladder refill of Nuun before heading to Crystal City which I knew would be a few miles.

Around mile 20-21, heading over the 14th St. bridge, I hit the wall hard.  I took my first walk break, and another one, and another one.  The sun was hot, I was watching people come off the course for medical aid, my legs felt shot, and the rise in elevation had an outsize effect.  It was one of the more bleak parts of an otherwise pretty scenic course.  The 4:45 pace group overtook me, then 4:50.  Eventually 4:55 and in a blow to my hopes, 5:00 also overtook me.  After running the entire first 20 miles without walking, the last 10k was a walk/run pattern averaging in the 12-13 minute/mile range.  I finished, smiling but hurting, in 5:04:44.

I did not expect to finish >5 hours, so if/when I do this again, I will want to figure out where I went wrong.  My ballpark estimate was 4:49 (1 min/mile slower than I've recently been running 13.1s), and my PT's method of 2x your 13.1 time + 20 minutes would be 4:38.  It's hard to feel positively about a 5:04 relative to those estimates.  

Did I go out too fast?  Go too fast in the middle?  Just have a bad day somehow?  Not do enough training?  I am not sure.  Underfueling may also have been an issue.  I had a feed alarm set for every 35 mins to eat a Gu, just like on my long runs.  Somehow I must have missed some, because I had 3-4 extra Gus at the end despite eating one off cycle (because I noticed I was starving) in Crystal City.  I was very vigilant about eating one every time I heard the alarm, but I think I must have missed a couple alarms.  Maybe it coincided with seeing my people, or a band, or something.  My watch and phone lost their Bluetooth connection to each other early in the race.  I was used to my music dropping in volume when the watch alarmed, making it more noticeable, and I didn't have that on race day.  Solving for that might be a need for next time.

So... next time.  Lol.  I'm not coming away saying I'm OAD for marathons, but IDK what's next.  We'll see how this recovery goes first, and take some time to think.  In the meantime, I am going to enjoy being a marathoner.

[shauni27]

scm1011, Susie, congrats, friends! Susie you inspire me--I still have it on my list to do a marathon.

[lilypad1126]

Congrats, scm1011 and Susie! I love reading recaps and both of yours are make it sound like you had so much fun!

[scm1011]

Congrats, again Susie!! I'm sorry you were disappointed with your time. I don't think it was your training (which from Strava seemed flawless). It sounds like nutrition might have been the culprit coupled with that bleak 14th street bridge. That was a really tough spot to hit the 20 mile mark - no crowd support, no shade, and it seemed to stretch on forever. I can see how that would all contribute.

Still you should be SO proud of yourself!! You crushed your training and ran a strong race. You are a MARATHONER!! I'm also not sure what the future holds - I think I might have one more in me for Boston (its pretty easy to get a charity bib as a local), but otherwise I may hang up my 26.2 shoes. The training is just all consuming.

I'm jealous of your photos! Your friend did a great job. DH took zero and I only have midrace photos because random women took shots of me with the kids and then asked for DH's phone number so they could text them to him. Moms looking out for moms, all day lol. I regret being too beat to get a photo with DH and the kids at the end, but ahh well.

[scm1011]

shauni27, doooooo it!

[brooke77]

Congrats scm1011 and Susie! Enjoy some rest and extra Halloween treats!

Susie - Great race! I can understand your time disappointment since it was 1 minute/mile off your predicted pace (right?), but you did amazing! It sounds like you potentially went out a bit too fast, but likely were underfueled since you hit the wall so hard. I try to follow Meghan Featherstone’s nutrition calculator (in all honesty, I can’t get in as much as she recommends, but I feel best when I follow her advice as close as possible): www.featherstonenutrition.com/race-fuel/
If you are thinking of a marathon in the future, you might want to check it out.

[Susie]

Oct 29, 2024 11:46:23 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

 I only have midrace photos because random women took shots of me with the kids and then asked for DH's phone number so they could text them to him. Mom's looking out for moms, all day lol.

omg I love that!

[mrshandy]

Congrats to both of you!! MCM can definitely be a beast of a course especially since the hottest part of the day coincides with the least shady party of the course usually. Also, the crowd weaving adds lots of extra miles in your race.

I actually signed up for next year! It's the 50th and they opened up registration super early.

I wish I could have gotten out there and cheered but there was too much going on at home cleaning up after our party and putting up Halloween decorations.

[wawa]

Congrats Susie and scm1011!!!!

Susie my totally inexpert self says nutrition for sure. Every single damn time that I've found myself with heavy legs or just running out of energy - I realize I haven't eaten enough. It's so easy to do. My best long runs/races where I've felt amazing and never hit a wall, i also felt like I was just eating the whole damn time. (My 70.3 felt like a never ending buffet, but I negative split the run on that and felt like a million dollars!)

Unrelated - my 18 miler dilemma was easily solved by realizing that I'm not a slave to my training plan, and can just swap next week's step back 10 for this week's 18 and have totally manageable amount of miles for a Friday morning. Woohoo! This race feels like a freight training approaching in the distance at that point where suddenly it goes from a little spot of light getting slowly brighter to something you can SEE getting closer in a big damn hurry.