A look at the chaos of ‘overtourism’ in the summer of 2024

[pixy0stix]

apnews.com/article/anti-tourism-barcelona-summer-travel-airbnb-df764ed1c7009fdbbf5a32eaedc6ffd5

[basilosaurus]

I was just reading about this re Bali. I've been to Barcelona and loved every bit. It's a shame that such wonderful sights are overrun, and I recognize it's privilege to say I was there when...
I'm in a tourist driven location, so we talk about this frequently. We want those tourism dollars, but we also really like our local community.

[ssmjlm]

It's not even overseas, when we did Alaska in 2012 there was one ship, maybe two in the same port.

I saw videos this summer and there are 3-4 ships in port. Too many people and those towns aren't built for that.

[shauni27]

Aug 20, 2024 2:16:04 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

I was just reading about this re Bali. I've been to Barcelona and loved every bit. It's a shame that such wonderful sights are overrun, and I recognize it's privilege to say I was there when...
I'm in a tourist driven location, so we talk about this frequently. We want those tourism dollars, but we also really like our local community.

this is something my region struggles with as well. Local roads in the fall literally are now closed down so we get less traffic on them because streets were clogged with tourists taking pictures. They were walking onto private farms and properties for photos so the towns voted to close those specific roads.

Finding a balance that works for everyone is really challenging.

[pixy0stix]

Aug 20, 2024 6:27:55 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

It's not even overseas, when we did Alaska in 2012 there was one ship, maybe two in the same port.

I saw videos this summer and there are 3-4 ships in port. Too many people and those towns aren't built for that.

And each of those cruise ships is absolute fucking hell on the environment.

I keep throwing out "cruise ships are very bad" articles in the hopes that it makes people pause when booking their next trip - this one is an unflinching look at a full cruise to Alaska starting from Seattle - www.hcn.org/articles/ocean-the-terrible-toll-of-the-cruise-ship-industry/

[erbear]

I have noticed this as well. I wonder how much of this could be alleviated by being "better" tourists -- walking or using public transportation instead of renting cars and clogging up streets. Enjoying what we're looking at rather than jockeying to try to get the most Insta-worthy photo. Going even a bit outside of the touristy areas to eat and drink (and ordering in the language of the country. And paying a fair price). And the cruise ships....hard no.

We have visited many of the "over-tourist" places in the last 25 years but very few in the last 10. I can't handle the crowds of the big European cities anymore and they aren't affordable to me anyway. Even my precious Portugal (where my family is) is no longer a hidden gem and that makes me sad for what it's turned into for the folks who live there. I live in a heavy tourist destination (though NOTHING like Europe) and it's annoying as crap to navigate the streets and sidewalks in the summer. And I understand that these places rely on tourism for their economy. It's such a hard issue.

[macmars45]

Aug 20, 2024 8:59:22 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Aug 20, 2024 6:27:55 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

It's not even overseas, when we did Alaska in 2012 there was one ship, maybe two in the same port.

I saw videos this summer and there are 3-4 ships in port. Too many people and those towns aren't built for that.

And each of those cruise ships is absolute fucking hell on the environment.

I keep throwing out "cruise ships are very bad" articles in the hopes that it makes people pause when booking their next trip - this one is an unflinching look at a full cruise to Alaska starting from Seattle - www.hcn.org/articles/ocean-the-terrible-toll-of-the-cruise-ship-industry/

I'm one person whose mind you changed. I've never been on a cruise but I used to want to go and now I will never go.

[mrsukyankee]

I work in central London and I HATE travelling home from work as I have to use a very heavily used train/tube terminal. People drive me mad while trying to get home. I do a lot of breathing exercises tbh. I definitely do NOT travel too much through central London in the summer because it's awful and super crowded. My friends and I tend to meet in areas that aren't too touristy. (It's why I tell friends to visit London outside of late spring and summer - it's too crowded.)

[heygrey]

I live in a tourist area and while it's not overrun like the areas of Spain highlighted in this article, the tourism definitely has negative effects on the local community. Every so often H and I ponder why we still live here. It's hella expensive, we can't/don't do any of the fun things during peak season because of the crowds, our roads and transit can't handle the population of the city much less the addition of tourists so we avoid going out as much as possible from Late May-August. We don't even have family here that ties us to the area! But jobs and friends and we do love all of the things that make this a popular destination, so we stay.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Aug 20, 2024 9:37:00 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

I work in central London and I HATE travelling home from work as I have to use a very heavily used train/tube terminal. People drive me mad while trying to get home. I do a lot of breathing exercises tbh. I definitely do NOT travel too much through central London in the summer because it's awful and super crowded. My friends and I tend to meet in areas that aren't too touristy. (It's why I tell friends to visit London outside of late spring and summer - it's too crowded.)

Somewhat OT - how's mid/late October? Asking for personal reasons.

[pixy0stix]

I think the phrase "they need the tourism money" is thrown out a lot without really examining if places actually DO need the tourism money. I think about the fire on Maui on the immediate "oh noes tourist dollars!" without taking into fact that the people that actually lived there were now homeless, and because of over tourism in other areas of the island, there was no housing for them.

Or in Bali, the tourists are going to leave once there is no more water, so the people are going to have to pivot anyway.

[erbear]

Aug 20, 2024 11:06:56 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I think the phrase "they need the tourism money" is thrown out a lot without really examining if places actually DO need the tourism money. I think about the fire on Maui on the immediate "oh noes tourist dollars!" without taking into fact that the people that actually lived there were now homeless, and because of over tourism in other areas of the island, there was no housing for them.

Or in Bali, the tourists are going to leave once there is no more water, so the people are going to have to pivot anyway.

I'm taking the word of people who live there who say they rely on tourism for their economy.

[pixy0stix]

Aug 20, 2024 11:38:58 GMT -5 erbear said:

Aug 20, 2024 11:06:56 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I think the phrase "they need the tourism money" is thrown out a lot without really examining if places actually DO need the tourism money. I think about the fire on Maui on the immediate "oh noes tourist dollars!" without taking into fact that the people that actually lived there were now homeless, and because of over tourism in other areas of the island, there was no housing for them.

Or in Bali, the tourists are going to leave once there is no more water, so the people are going to have to pivot anyway.

I'm taking the word of people who live there who say they rely on tourism for their economy.

Understood, but I think the people that live there probably aren't even clocking all the ramifications. In the article I posted, the indigenous community welcomed tourists, but now it's at the point where most of the people who used to live there have all moved away. They sacrificed their community and lifestyle for money and they're regretting it.

[heygrey]

Aug 20, 2024 11:06:56 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I think the phrase "they need the tourism money" is thrown out a lot without really examining if places actually DO need the tourism money. I think about the fire on Maui on the immediate "oh noes tourist dollars!" without taking into fact that the people that actually lived there were now homeless, and because of over tourism in other areas of the island, there was no housing for them.

Or in Bali, the tourists are going to leave once there is no more water, so the people are going to have to pivot anyway.

I'm sure some places do really need tourist money, but H and I look critically at our own city that "relies on tourist dollars" and... it doesn't have to. There is a lot of capitalism and greed tied up in the tourists spending money to make locals (or investors) richer. We have a housing crisis because 1) the average house price is over $1 million and that's stupid, and 2) there were/are A LOT of short term rentals. Our provincial government passed legislation to significantly reduce the legal holiday rentals and our local municipal government has tightened it up even more. That put some units back into the long term rental market and we've seen some listed for sale though the prices are still insane. I'm positive there is still an underground short term rental market happening though. The businesses that rely on tourist dollars were built by entrepreneurs hoping to capitalize on the crowds. I admire their tenacity, but again... capitalism. There are lots of other jobs they could do to earn a living. 

But I have no aspirations to get rich off the backs of other people and I'd be happy to live in a much more socialist society where we all have enough and no one is overly wealthy. 

[mrsukyankee]

Aug 20, 2024 11:00:22 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Aug 20, 2024 9:37:00 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

I work in central London and I HATE travelling home from work as I have to use a very heavily used train/tube terminal. People drive me mad while trying to get home. I do a lot of breathing exercises tbh. I definitely do NOT travel too much through central London in the summer because it's awful and super crowded. My friends and I tend to meet in areas that aren't too touristy. (It's why I tell friends to visit London outside of late spring and summer - it's too crowded.)

Somewhat OT - how's mid/late October? Asking for personal reasons.

I like that time - it's cool but not cold, we may have rain but that can happen any time. It's very much less crowded. I'm a fan of autumn in London. It's a time to wear layers as you can get anything between 40s to late 60s.

[Michelle]

Seems like tourist visas and pre-purchased site permits might be required for some of these places to limit crowds. Will be a major plan to manage but once in place it would be good for the quality of the vacation and the life of the residents.

I just tried to imagine what it would be like having people swarming my neighborhood to take pictures. That would get old REAL quick. And that doesn't include drunken tourist partying.

[dulcemariamar]

I have spent most of my summer in Spain so I have seen so many reports on this topic basically every day on the news. It is a complicated issue when you have to find a balance but it is definitely politicians and big business that are winning in these scenarios. It is a shame that locals can’t survive in their own towns and they are just turning into tourist areas and they are losing a lot of their cultural spaces/traditions.

One big issue is of course cruise ships and obviously the environment impact is horrible but they should ban them altogether or limit to one ship in each port. Especially now with the ships that hold like 6000+.

Budget airlines. You can travel with Ryanair for like 40-50 euros so of course you are going to get loads of tourists. Hotel and food prices have definitely increased so that decreasing national tourism but people from countries with higher salaries like Germany that won’t make a big dent in their plans.

There are so many people traveling than ever before. I started to travel a lot around Europe about 15 years ago and there would be a handful of tourists especially during the off season. I remember going to Salzburg and there were basically no tourists. I went to Innsbruck last year in May and it was so crowded. And now there are huge tourist groups from India and China that didn’t really exist 10 years ago.

And finally social media is just fueling travel. There is so much FOMO I think in some cases that having a European summer is now a thing for a lot of Americans. People in Spain are asking tourists not to tag locations so that they don’t come overburdened with tourists. I am guilty of this. I saw Lauterbrunnen on social media and booked a holiday to see it. It was gorgeous and definitely worth a visit but now I only see videos of this town on my feed.

The only benefit is that now I am becoming more creative with my trips and found some real gems. I think if you avoid major European cities and beaches during the summer then you are still ok.

[dulcemariamar]

Oh and I find these golden visa, travel nomads so annoying.
They are selling such a false narrative about living in Spain, Portugal, and Greece to people on social media. Of course, if you come
to these places with your American salary then you are going to immediately be at least upper middle class if not rich. Life is pretty much great when you have greater spending power. At least some locals are fighting back on their social media by telling them the truth that it is impossible for most locals to buy houses because housing either turns into AirBnbs or is bought up by foreigners.

[msmerymac]

Aug 20, 2024 6:27:55 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

It's not even overseas, when we did Alaska in 2012 there was one ship, maybe two in the same port.

I saw videos this summer and there are 3-4 ships in port. Too many people and those towns aren't built for that.

I heard the same when i was in Bar Harbor. The town is only letting 1,000 cruise ship passengers in at once but they often have 8,000+ tourists in port over the summer.

[sakoro]

The touristy parts of San Diego can be unpleasant during the summer. It’s so crowded, there’s no parking, long lines and the infrastructure can’t support the number of people arriving (especially because public transportation is not great and people are forced to drive). The biggest complaints come from people who live in residential neighborhoods with Airbnbs — the tourists come to party, but the residents need to sleep. The neighborhood noise level/ vibe changes overnight and no one asked your permission.

I haven’t been to Barcelona since 2001 and it was pretty busy then (I think I was there in July/ August). I can’t imagine it with double or triple the people.

[al dente]

Aug 20, 2024 11:06:56 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I think the phrase "they need the tourism money" is thrown out a lot without really examining if places actually DO need the tourism money. I think about the fire on Maui on the immediate "oh noes tourist dollars!" without taking into fact that the people that actually lived there were now homeless, and because of over tourism in other areas of the island, there was no housing for them.

Or in Bali, the tourists are going to leave once there is no more water, so the people are going to have to pivot anyway.

This attitude also comes with so much entitlement. People act that they are doing the entire area a favour by spending their money there, and therefore no rules can possibly apply to them. Yes the area may need SOME tourism, but the levels post covid are out of control. And a lot of things people are flocking to see are a finite resource. So many hikes in Hawaii are shut down because of the mix the mountains eroding due to over use and rescues needing to be done which cost the local tax payers money.

After the Maui fires the attitude of saviourism of tourists was disgusting. No people didn't want your money, having to put on a happy face to grant your every request, they wanted time to mourn and try to get their life back together.

[bears]

Aug 20, 2024 11:06:56 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I think the phrase "they need the tourism money" is thrown out a lot without really examining if places actually DO need the tourism money.

I recently met a couple from Portugal and they said that there's a lot of medical tourism there--Americans who come to Portugal to get procedures at a reasonable price.

They said that they much prefer it to regular tourism and since regular tourism creates mostly lower skill jobs and builds infrastructure that helps tourists. Medical tourism creates higher skill jobs and medical infrastructure that, in theory, benefits the local populace as well.

[Velar Fricative]

Aug 20, 2024 17:25:56 GMT -5 bears said:

Aug 20, 2024 11:06:56 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I think the phrase "they need the tourism money" is thrown out a lot without really examining if places actually DO need the tourism money.

I recently met a couple from Portugal and they said that there's a lot of medical tourism there--Americans who come to Portugal to get procedures at a reasonable price.

They said that they much prefer it to regular tourism and since regular tourism creates mostly lower skill jobs and builds infrastructure that helps tourists. Medical tourism creates higher skill jobs and medical infrastructure that, in theory, benefits the local populace as well.

The NYT had an article just today about overtourism in Barcelona specifically. Local officials cited wanting more “high quality tourism,” which I assume medical tourism would fall under. www.nytimes.com/2024/08/20/travel/overtourism-barcelona.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb

[mrsukyankee]

I will say that British tourists can be some of the worst - especially in Spain. They come in and expect to have everything like in England but with sun and sand - and because there are so many of them coming, it's killed the local vibe/restaurants. You can get your £1.50 pint of shit beer and £5 English Breakfast...but hard to find really good Spanish food. Ugh.

[dulcemariamar]

Aug 21, 2024 3:11:08 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

I will say that British tourists can be some of the worst - especially in Spain. They come in and expect to have everything like in England but with sun and sand - and because there are so many of them coming, it's killed the local vibe/restaurants. You can get your £1.50 pint of shit beer and £5 English Breakfast...but hard to find really good Spanish food. Ugh.

I just have to laugh because at a beach hotel this summer there was this big group of British tourists and they had a screaming match at the breakfast buffet area. It is funny to hear people scream and curse but in a posh English accent. All the Spanish people had their heads down and just tried to get on with breakfast.


I was surprised to see so many British tourists there since I was in the North. I guess tickets are so cheap that they can come for a week. American tourists are usually well behaved and just a few of them are loud. I think if you make a trip across the ocean it is because you are interested in the culture. It is not just a beach holiday.

[dulcemariamar]

Aug 20, 2024 17:56:56 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Aug 20, 2024 17:25:56 GMT -5 bears said:

I recently met a couple from Portugal and they said that there's a lot of medical tourism there--Americans who come to Portugal to get procedures at a reasonable price.

They said that they much prefer it to regular tourism and since regular tourism creates mostly lower skill jobs and builds infrastructure that helps tourists. Medical tourism creates higher skill jobs and medical infrastructure that, in theory, benefits the local populace as well.

The NYT had an article just today about overtourism in Barcelona specifically. Local officials cited wanting more “high quality tourism,” which I assume medical tourism would fall under. www.nytimes.com/2024/08/20/travel/overtourism-barcelona.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb

They just want rich older people to come and not people in their 20s doing budget travel holidays. Honestly, Barcelona just needs to get rid of the cruise ships and limit tourist apartments. I have cruised before through Europe and would eat a big breakfast onboard, do some sightseeing on my own and come back for a late lunch. I barely spent any money actually in the countries that I visited and I think a lot of people spend very little in the ports

[dulcemariamar]

Aug 20, 2024 17:25:56 GMT -5 bears said:

Aug 20, 2024 11:06:56 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I think the phrase "they need the tourism money" is thrown out a lot without really examining if places actually DO need the tourism money.

I recently met a couple from Portugal and they said that there's a lot of medical tourism there--Americans who come to Portugal to get procedures at a reasonable price.

They said that they much prefer it to regular tourism and since regular tourism creates mostly lower skill jobs and builds infrastructure that helps tourists. Medical tourism creates higher skill jobs and medical infrastructure that, in theory, benefits the local populace as well.

Are they paying out of pocket? When you do that then you basically get to skip the whole line and get an appointment the same day or the next, at least in Spain. They have a private system too and there are long waits to get specialist appointments. Not as long as the public system of course but if you pay out of pocket then you cut in front of all the local residents with private insurance. So I guess for now medical tourism isn’t out of control but it is also a thing to consider that you are taking resources from the local residents

[mrsukyankee]

dulcemariamar, yeah, it's so embarrassing. We call them Brits Abroad and try to avoid staying in areas/hotels where they congregate. I always look at Tripadvisor reviews and can tell if it's a place where they might gather. Brits Abroad have a bad reputation for being rude, getting into fights, thinking they deserve what they want when they want it. I never understood that viewpoint as I love being in different cultures and living life differently.

[wildrice]

Aug 21, 2024 4:01:13 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

dulcemariamar , yeah, it's so embarrassing. We call them Brits Abroad and try to avoid staying in areas/hotels where they congregate. I always look at Tripadvisor reviews and can tell if it's a place where they might gather. Brits Abroad have a bad reputation for being rude, getting into fights, thinking they deserve what they want when they want it. I never understood that viewpoint as I love being in different cultures and living life differently.

My H is British and this is something I definitely learned from him! Not that he is that way, but he always wants to run in the other direction if we are traveling and hear someone speaking in a British accent. 

I think there is a ton of value in going to new places and learning about their history and culture. I think it broadens understanding of other human experiences and makes us better people. Even tourism within your own country can help you understand people who may not think like you or live like you. BUT I think a lot of people travel these days without really caring about any of those things and just want to post pics on social media or check items off their list of "things to see before you die". I don't necessarily think either of those things are terrible - people should do what makes them happy - they must be done respectfully. 

I think what is really needed is better regulations. Timed entries to things, more regulation around buying rental properties, requiring visas or some other way of limiting who is visiting the country at any particular time, etc. I don't think people are going to want to stop exploring the world - but maybe we shouldn't all be doing it to the same places at the same time. 

And also eliminate cruise ships. I know in a place like Alaska is difficult to visit without them, but most places you're going to get a better experience by visiting on your own anyway. Being somewhere for only a few hours while it is jam packed with other cruise passengers sounds like the worst way to travel IMO.

[lilac05]

This is on my mind often. Is there such thing as responsible travel/tourism? Considering the environmental and economic & cultural implications of traveling…is it possible to do it truly responsibly? Or is it all self-serving at a cost to the earth and others?

Seeing new places and experiencing other cultures has definite benefits…but that always comes at a cost. Where’s the balance?