Class Size + Making Friends, Middle School edition

[isabel]

I have always been someone who has a small group of close friends and not much more than that.

Through middle school, I can honestly think of only one friend who I spent time with outside of school. When I went to high school, we lost touch and I ended up with a different group of friends. There were only four of us (me included) and for all of high school, I spent probably 90% of my time with those friends. I had a couple others through the years I spent time with, but it was mostly that core group of three.

As an adult, I'd say I have three people I actually choose to spend time with: one is from that high school group, one is from college, and one is from my adult life. Of those, I only get to see two of those three on a semi-regular basis.

All of that to say, it's ok, especially as a new middle schooler, to not have a solid friend group. I suspect in time she will end up with a very small handful of close friends. This isn't something I would worry about too much unless she seems concerned about it.

On a maybe related note, I imagine her home life often feels tense and wonder if having a therapist to talk to on a regular basis would help her to address any concerns or worries she has.

[sdlaura]

My daughter just started middle school. She is a very social kid involved in lots of sports and activities and knows a lot of people overall - but she also feels awkward at lunch and also feels like she doesn’t have friends in her classes.

Her middle school is 800 kids total for two grades (7th and 8th). One of her teachers emailed all the parents and said her classroom is a safe place at lunch if anyone wants to come hang out - so I suggested that to DD since it seems like lunchtime is a bit ‘lord of the flies.’

So just to say that even if she had an easy time making friends/a lot of people she considers friends - the start of middle school can just be a weird time.

[wanderingback]

Your kids definitely need to be in therapy for a variety of reasons and this is something that your daughter could explore if it is bothersome/negatively affecting her life.

I do not think switching to a smaller school is going to automatically mean your daughter is going to make a ton of close knit friends and in fact, the opposite could happen.

[lilac05]

One thing someone told me years ago about big schools has really stuck with me…In a big school, you have a better chance of finding “your people.” No matter how “different” a student might feel, there’s a good chance they’ll find someone who gets them.

The first few weeks of school are the extroverts’ dream! They find each other, they’re loud and it looks like “everyone is making friends.” But if you look around, the quiet ones are everywhere. But they’re not comfortable talking to new people just yet. It takes patience…usually mostly on the parents’ part. No one wants to have to watch their child have no friends. But often, the introverted kids are OK to kind of hang on the outside, especially at first.

Also, small schools can be THE WORST to move into! (They can also be great, but I went to a really small school. By middle school, we had been together for 7 years, and were more like a family. We were nice to new kids, but they didn’t have the history or level of comfort.)

[lilac05]

Aug 28, 2024 22:41:21 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

One thing someone told me years ago about big schools has really stuck with me…In a big school, you have a better chance of finding “your people.” No matter how “different” a student might feel, there’s a good chance they’ll find someone who gets them.

The first few weeks of school are the extroverts’ dream! They find each other, they’re loud and it looks like “everyone is making friends.” But if you look around, the quiet ones are everywhere. But they’re not comfortable talking to new people just yet. It takes patience…usually mostly on the parents’ part. No one wants to have to watch their child have no friends. But often, the introverted kids are OK to kind of hang on the outside, especially at first.

Also, small schools can be THE WORST to move into! (They can also be great, but I went to a really small school. By middle school, we had been together for 7 years, and were more like a family. We were nice to new kids, but they didn’t have the history or level of comfort.)

I also think you could consider looking for resources on extroverts raising introverts. It definitely comes with its unique challenges, but so important for us to realize that no one “should” be one way or the other. (Extrovert raising an introvert here. I had to LEARN that he wasn’t sad and lonely when he was by himself, he was just…sitting. Alone. And he was 100% fine with that. If that had been me as a kid, I would still be telling the tale of that one time that I was devastated to sit alone.)

[sonrisa]

Just read your OP (will read more and edit it this is out of line):

It sounds like your kid is a "best friend" type of kid. she really bonds with one person in her sphere and that is where she puts her friend energy (and that sphere changes each school year). Some kids are. They aren't as likely to be part of a big friend group or engage with things that "all the kids are doing" like those walks downtown. Instead, they have their own thing.

I had both situations as a kid (we moved a ton by her age I was on my 5th school) and the best friend model has a lot of benefits. If that is her, she'll find someone in that lunch group that clicks within a month or two and her year will smooth out.

On the flip side - I would not move a 6th grader between schools mid year for anything short of terrible bullying. She's already on the introverted side. Showing up new midyear with her personality will be very hard. Those smaller schools already have established bonds and hierarchies. A change might go well, but it could also go the opposite direction. Kids this age love nothing more than a scapegoat.

Anecdote: My eldest goes to a school system a lot like yours - around 170 per year, same cohort K-8, but they cycle through three campuses - K-2, 3-5, 6-8. She has been a "friend group" kid generally but those groups also turned over: one group decided our lifestyle wasn't fancy enough, another group got serious about a sport my kid didn't play, and another became very focused on the tween boy gaze rather than friendship, lol. She had a rough patch in 6th after that last split (at its worst her former friends literally followed her around to mock her "why are you all alone? " etc), but she landed with a two bestie crew with two new kids. This trio is leaps and bounds better than any of those "friend groups" from the past. All three really care about each other and have each other's back. The way they talk and treat each other is just so much better. Frankly I hope she never goes back to the big herd mentality friend groups where they get along fine-ish and wander downtown together. 

[fancynewbeesly]

So my DD is 13. We moved when she was going into 5th grade. So for K-4 she was in a massive elementary school. (each grade level had about 100-120 kids). She had a great experience there. Then we moved--in our new town at the time, they had a 5th/6th grade only school-I want to say it about 300-400 kids. It was definitely SMALLER than her other school. However every kid coming from the tiny elementary schools (there were 3 of them) were shell shocked going into the medium sized schools. DD1 had no issues transitioning. She thought it was actually pretty small comparatively.

To me it seems like DD has school friends and home friends. Her home friends are the ones that she routinely makes an effort to see and enjoy their company. Her best friend from kindergarten from her old school-she lives about 20 minutes away. My niece who is 2 years younger-she lives about a mile away. And our neighbor who is a grade below. Those friends she routinely makes an effort to see.

She has friends at school-she eats with them at lunch and is excited to see them, but yet doesn't make an effort to actually get together with them. I ask if she wants to, and she doesn't bother. It doesn't upset her and I think those school friends also have very different interests-DD is advanced honors classes and likes to talk about books and math and things like that--and she still has younger interests.

Who knows? We don't push it especially since it doesn't bother her. I am hoping she makes more connections this year in 8th since she was on homebound for majority of seventh and half of sixth grade.

[expectantsteelerfan]

I would be much more likely to reach out to the school and request that DD be placed with one of the friends that your DD has made previously, stating her struggles to make new friends and being overwhelmed with the large class size of the middle school than I would be to jump to switching schools. I agree with a pp that said a new school with smaller classes might have established social groups that could be even harder to break into. I get that you might not want to be 'that parent' to request your DD is placed with a friend, but if you think it might really benefit her, I'd start with reaching out to the counselor and see if it's possible, because if you politely request it as a solution to a problem, they are more likely to be open to at least considering it in my experience.

[waverly]

Good point. I would reach out to the school social worker and/ or school counselor for assistance. Typically larger schools have more resources in that area.

[CurlyQ284]

I did switch schools but not until 10th grade. My grandparents were private school teachers, they said they would pay tuition if my parents put us in private school. My brother was bullied in middle school, he made the choice to go to private for 9th grade. I stayed at public for 9th grade (no idea what my class size was, maybe 500?) to be with my friends but didn't have any classes with them or lunch and it was a really tough year.

I made the choice to go to the small public school for 10th grade. I loved it, I was really able to come out of my shell. I went from trying my hardest to be invisible all day to doing all the things. My graduating class was 48 kids. I don't know if there was something special about that school, it wasn't a bunch of kids that all grew up together, it was kids from all over. I found it pretty easy to jump in for 10th grade, I wasn't even the only new kid that year, my two best friends to this day were also new in 10th.

I will say I'm the type of person that has a handful of close friends. I already had my small group before I left the bigger school, they were kids from my neighborhood and then I made another small group of friends at school.

[mommyatty]

If she’s happy, leave it be. My kids were both in a small private school. DD (7th grade) is still there, and she has been since she was 3. She’s very shy but has a great group of friends. But it took until 6th grade for her to finally make those friends. DS is in 5th grade. We moved him to public school last year, and he is so much happier. He generally is a “find one friend” kind of kid, and he’s had the absolute worst luck with his one friend each year changing schools or not being in his class or being held back. It’s been rough. But he’s resilient and honestly is better at figuring out how to find that one new friend than my daughter is. We may have to move for my job, and while I really want to and think it would be better for a lot of reasons, I worry a lot about DD.

Also, I was talking with another mom who knew kids who had joined the small private school last year. They pulled their kids after a year because they said the kids were finding it too hard to break into established friend groups. They didn’t find it welcoming at all.

[eddy]

We are in a bigger school (500+ per grade.) And the way I look at it is there is always a friend out there for each type of kid. Bigger schools have more opportunities to find your people through clubs, classes etc. But it is also a slow process. I went to a small school and you pretty much had to be monoculture to survive. So that is clouding my judgement. I see way more opportunities for my kids to be themselves at a big school.

I personally would let it play out and see where you can help. At this age, parent relationships still play a role in socialization. I deal with this by being a the hang out house. I don't even want to add up what I have spent over the years in soda, chips and pizza. But it is my way of passively fostering friendships. I also try to get to know other parents, which is hard for me since I am pretty introverted. But showing that I am a trusted adult, chill about kids hanging out at our place etc helps things along.

I worry about this sometimes with my youngest. He is quieter and is comfortable with a smaller group of friends. I worry he doesn't have "enough" which is my own issue. He seems to be fine. 

It is hard! I can so relate to your worries. I am the same way.

Also it is hard for me as my oldest is extrovert, tons of friends, lots of activities etc. He is having an experience closer to what I remember in high school My youngest is different and that is okay. It doesn't mean he is struggling. It just means he navigates the world differently. So I have had to do some work on accepting that both things are awesome and mean the kids are thriving. One is just more out there. 

I love to borrow worries so my youngest social life is one of my silly borrowing worries things. Of course heightened with the start of school at a new building this year. He is doing great tho. 

[1yeartogo]

PDQ I’m was in this situation last year. My dd had always had 1-2 best friends and was what I considered a very happy child. Then she went to a middle school that dumped in 400 kids from three schools ended up in no classes with anyone she knew. Elementary friends had no classes with her etc so they grew apart.

The difference for me and why we changed schools this year *fingers crossed it all works out* is that she was coming home every day saying she was miserable and hated school the school year from December to June was just an anxiety fit every day.

So moving her to an environment that is much smaller will hopefully be comforting and allow her to not be so fearful of the middle school maze, but she is still going to have to work hard to make new friends and learn this new school. Oh and we did start therapy to help manage the new anxiety brought on by middle school.

Good luck.

[eddy]

I will also say, for me, this is how social media can be harmful. When you see other people's kids in all these activities, social situations etc you can't help but compare your own child. So when my friends are posting their kids on all these travel teams and one of my kids is meh about sports I can feel like I am not doing enough for him. I have to really be aware of it. I remind myself what I am not seeing is the 95% of the kids just doing their thing. Nothing remarkable. Not in big group of friends. Not excelling at all these things. Just living their very happy lives just like my youngest is doing.

This perspective might help you as well.

[raleighnc]

If you think she may have anxiety in social situations (or even just not knowing quite what to do), I would start there. Find a counselor for her to talk to and see what she actually is feeling and techniques to deal with any stress she is experiencing. My DD1 likes to say that everyone in middle school needs therapy, and she's not wrong. DD1 also did a social skills class with an SLP and OT based on improv techniques and she loved it. It was literally teaching kids with social communication issues how to maneuver within the neurotypical space.

Also, I think it's very difficult to begin and maintain friendships based on being in the same class in school because they all get so busy with extracurriculars in middle school. My daughters end up spending more time with girls who don't go to their school because of Girl Scouts. Everyone is so busy that a scheduled activity is the only surefire way to get them together. So if she has any interests, see if she can dive deeper into them and find friends with similar interests.

[raleighnc]

Aug 28, 2024 20:20:51 GMT -5 sent said:

abs , waverly - Is the iPad hooked up to cellular or just regular old wifi? DD does have an iPad but we haven't used it to message anyone outside of family. She said that right before school ended, "Sheila" from gym class asked DD for her phone number and DD said she didn't have a phone. I reminded her that she had an iPad and could chat with that, but then we were both confused. Would DD just need that girl's number and send the chats that way like she does with me? Or would DD just give out her email so kids could text her iPad? I thought I knew Sheila's mom and could just message her and solve the phone number issue, but turns out it was a different Sheila and DD never ended up making the connection.

My kids use messenger kids as well. You can also have DD give out your phone number and ask the parents to text you so you can set up either messenger kids or FaceTime or Google chat or meet. My girls have phones because of carpool, but I didn't allow them to give out their phone numbers because I didn't want them in a crazy group text situation.

The other option is to let her have a phone number to give out, but it lives at home and doesn't have social media on it. We have an "emergency cell phone" in our kitchen that is like $12 a month and mostly just for 911.

[waverly]

DD chats with her email through iMessage. We set both kids up with e-mail addresses. They don’t get many emails but then they all have access to the Google Calendar which has all their sports practices etc in there.

She used to chat with Messenger Kids but most kids move off that platform when they get phones. It’s not really used in 6th grade anymore.

[wildrice]

I too would think that a smaller school would be MORE difficult, especially as they get older. When you are a little kid you are friends with everyone because your personalities are still developing and you can play together whether you are really compatible or not. As you get older and into middle/high school, kids who don't have things in common aren't going to want to spend time together anymore. So I would think being in a larger school would give her more opportunities to find the kids who she connects with than if there are only like 20 kids to even choose from.

I struggled a lot socially through middle school. I found a core group of 4 friends in middle school - one of whom had been my BFF since 2nd grade - but really didn't have any other friends. My 2nd grade BFF lived down the street from me and our moms were friends, so it was easier to stay close even when we weren't in the same class. But during elementary school I often just wouldn't have friends in my class. I was a shy kid and did get bullied some so I kind of kept to myself. I wouldn't say that that was "fine" but I survived and when I got to high school was when things really clicked for me socially. I had a ton of good friends, and same with college. So, I do think your kid will eventually find her people. But quality is more important than quantity anyway - she may never have tons of friends and that's ok! As an adult I've always found it difficult to balance having "many" friends too and feel like I still do a poor job of it. So she may just be like that. I guess you could see about counseling or some other kind of coaching to help her figure out how to manage social relationships, but also to an extent it may just be who she is and that's ok too.

[ellipses84]

Your kid sounds a lot like mine (and like me at that age). It’s so hard not to project our worries on our children. Ultimately, if they aren’t bothered, you shouldn’t be bothered. Ask her how she feels and what she wants to do. They will make new friends.

DH is very social and convinced me to get DS2 a phone for his bday instead of Christmas, and we both regret it a little. He hardly used it to text his friends over the summer, which was the intent. He likes it to see sports scores and play video games. It has a lot of restrictions and parent monitoring software (no social media) but I feel like he’s on it way too much and it makes him more anti-social. We traveled a lot this summer but he didn’t arrange any times to hang out with friends and would be on his phone instead of hanging with his cousins (although his 15 y.o. Cousin was the same). He’s an introvert homebody who likes to read. Kids aren’t as social in unstructured environments because so much of their lives are structured. Also, we recently discovered he had made a new friend he hardly talked about because I ran into the kid’s mom a couple times. They have classes and sports together and apparently hang out all the time at school but DS1 lost his # over the summer so he never texted him.

Again, so much like me as a kid but at that age I had low self esteem and complicated family relationships. Parents got divorced, never saw my dad anymore, mom had a new BF move in who us kids didn’t like so they avoided us, older siblings moved out or were gone most of the time and I felt very neglected and alone. I was pretty depressed about being mean-girled by my elementary friends. They weren’t really in many of my classes though so I eventually made new friends and had lots of friends in high school, although usually always 1-2 best friends. DS1 is very confident, happy and likes hanging with his parents.

We have school choice and the most difficult middle school transitions were the ones where parents choiced into a different zone and their kids were the new kids, going to school with a bunch of kids who had been together in an immersion program since K and weren’t really interested in new friends. Several of them moved back to our middle school, so I don’t necessarily think switching schools is the answer, unless your child really wants to.

[ellipses84]

I’ll add, DS complains a lot about middle school in general, but it’s more about the rules, how it’s run, how boring it is, etc. If I ask how his day was, every day the answer is It’s good now that I’m not at school anymore. We’ve talked a lot about what he doesn’t like and how those things are similar at every middle school and how middle school can suck for everyone but high school is better and college is even better.

[polarbearfans]

If she isn’t unhappy I wouldn’t worry about it. As an introvert this sounds exactly like me, and where I am happy to be. I got along well enough with people at school, but all the noise and people wore me down, and I needed my quiet time to recharge. I preferred to read rather than socialize. I am ok eating alone, but I did have a group I ate lunch with. If I wasn’t there they all ate with different people, so I would say I had friends, but was closest with 1 or 2. I would occasionally go out to movies or bowling, but again I preferred to just stay home and read.

[basilosaurus]

I don't have a kid, and my class was roughly 125 at its smallest in middle school (very small for the region), and I often had repeat friends over the years from pk-12. BFF in 2nd was also 5th, 7th, and still friends in 9th.

My closest friends 7-12 I'm not sure I ever had anything but lunch hour with due to accelerated cohort (which meant nothing as one friend went on to be a surgeon despite not being in my accelerated science cohort). I did have eventually a couple English classes with one friend. I never needed more than 1 or 2 close friends, although I had playground friend type relationships (or whatever they're called in older years).

What was most damaging was my dad saying I should have more friends, please more people, figure out how to get along and have quantities. And that's the only reason I chimed in on a parenting post. He said it was a difficult skill for him to learn but so necessary, and I was lacking. It came from love, but boy did I feel misunderstood. I did have more than 2 friends, and close friends at that, but they were nearly always one or 2 primary in the group even if I had a few overlapping small groups.

I happily read my books without misery (also, a child free cat person without misery now). Thankfully one of my closest friends and I would read side by side different books without need for conversation.

If she's not distressed, leave her be. Even as a fucking adult decades later, my lack of numbers has been brought up against me (by family). Nothing about the loyalties that span decades and continents.

I do think your background is possibly clouding your interpretation. It truly is ok to have 1 or 2 closest that maybe change with room assignments. Sometimes they'll find each other again as I did a few times with different people.

You're doing fine, she from your reports is doing fine.

[scm1011]

For the last 10 years my DH has been a 6th grade teacher at a very small school PK-12 school (20 kids per grade). He’s mentioned every year that a new kid starts how his heart breaks for them because these kids have their groups settled. They have their history and their inside jokes. He said the new kid really needs to be outgoing and gregarious to break in, otherwise it’s rough. Obviously just anecdotal, but tracks with what others have said.

[steph2008]

What a timely post for me! I went to lunch with a friend today and this was the entire conversation- us and our fears/insecurities about our kids and their social lives. I have two very opposite children. My oldest one (7th grade) is very social and has many friends. He seems to just be good with people- very popular, very extroverted. My daughter (4th grade) is the opposite. She's very content just being home. If we let her stay home for the whole summer she's be happy as a clam with her iPad, books, and dog. She has two best friends and is not excluded per say, but she is def not in the "big group" of girls in her grade. I've had to remind myself of a few things:

1- That group, which I often stress bc it feels like there are so many girls in that group that she's the only one not included- is not her speed. She doesn't want to be with 20 kids at someones house. She likes small groups- 1-2 kids is plenty for her.

2- She is happy. It may not be MY version of happy, but it is her current version. She is in therapy bc she has ARFID, so I do have a pulse on her contentment from there, but she does seem overall happy.

3- I have to let go of my expectations and my fears. I think I (and apparently so many of us from this post) have such a vision of what "social" looks like and that that vision is the only form of happy. Social media is DEFINITELY to blame bc I see all the things she's NOT at- play dates, parties, etc. I've started using the hide button religiously- if you post something and it upsets me, I just hide your content. It's not personal, it's MY issue, but I don't need to be having a perfectly fine day and then come across photos of a party with 30 kids and feel bad that my kid wasn't there. It is my own insecurities, and likely my kid wouldn't even want to be there!!

I teach middle school so I get a view of it from another lens too. There is such a range of "normal"- the big groups, the kids with 1 or 2 friends, the kids that keep to themself but seem fine... Overall, the range is so large that I need to trust the process.

But, if my kid wasn't in therapy, I'd worry more. Her being in therapy makes me feel like I have a way of someone checking in on her mental health. I'd highly suggest it- and possibly for yourself, too. I've def discussed this with my own counselor multiple times.

[DarcyLongfellow]

Oh, my heart goes out to you. Your daughter sounds a lot like my oldest. She was in a big public school for all of elementary school. Despite the fact that she'd been with a lot of the same kids for years, she basically didn't talk at school. I'd peek in the lunch room if I happened to be at school, and she'd be sitting all by herself just staring at her lunch box. She never seemed to connect with kids, and all the playdates were ones I initiated. She's 15 now, and she honestly talks about her elementary years as being pretty awful. I don't think she was miserable at the time, but she looks back now and realizes that by never talking to anyone (because she was too shy) that she really was isolated and unhappy. I knew at the time that being at school was draining for her -- but I just figured it was because she was introverted.

Now, for various reasons my oldest has virtual schooled or homeschooled since elementary school. I do think that if she had gone to the public middle school that she would have had an easier time than she did in elementary school. Middle school is the first time kids can really interact with their whole grade instead of being forced to spend the majority of their day with only the 25 or so kids in their class.

I'd really try to get your daughter to open up to you. I highly recommend a counselor. If you can meet with her and the counselor for at least the first few sessions, it will give you some skills to help you get your daughter to talk to you about things on her mind. The counselor can also work with your daughter on social skills -- it's hard to learn how to make friends.

She may be completely happy with her school life as it is, in which case I'd leave it alone. I'd encourage her to try some clubs and activities through the school -- band, drama club, an art club.

If you do decide to have her change schools, I wouldn't worry for one minute about whether or not it will be hard for her to switch. Kids switch schools all the time. At her age, though, I'd want her to be heavily involved in choosing the school. And I wouldn't change to a smaller school just because she made friends easier in a small school when she was young. I'd want a school that would be better for encouraging her social development and that fostered activities that involved all the kids.

[brooke77]

I wouldn’t jump to changing schools, but I would maybe introduce the idea of therapy. I don’t have a MS-aged child, but I would worry a bit about her social isolation. I think it’s completely normal to have 1 or 2 friends. What gives me pause is that you say she doesn’t have any friends, only acquaintances that she doesn’t seem to have any real attachment to. I do think that is something worth exploring. MS is so hard, so hopefully she has 1 peer (whether in school, an activity, or online) that she would consider a friend.

[waverly]

Aug 29, 2024 10:24:47 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

Your kid sounds a lot like mine (and like me at that age). It’s so hard not to project our worries on our children. Ultimately, if they aren’t bothered, you shouldn’t be bothered. Ask her how she feels and what she wants to do. They will make new friends.

DH is very social and convinced me to get DS2 a phone for his bday instead of Christmas, and we both regret it a little. He hardly used it to text his friends over the summer, which was the intent. He likes it to see sports scores and play video games. It has a lot of restrictions and parent monitoring software (no social media) but I feel like he’s on it way too much and it makes him more anti-social. We traveled a lot this summer but he didn’t arrange any times to hang out with friends and would be on his phone instead of hanging with his cousins (although his 15 y.o. Cousin was the same). He’s an introvert homebody who likes to read. Kids aren’t as social in unstructured environments because so much of their lives are structured. Also, we recently discovered he had made a new friend he hardly talked about because I ran into the kid’s mom a couple times. They have classes and sports together and apparently hang out all the time at school but DS1 lost his # over the summer so he never texted him.

Again, so much like me as a kid but at that age I had low self esteem and complicated family relationships. Parents got divorced, never saw my dad anymore, mom had a new BF move in who us kids didn’t like so they avoided us, older siblings moved out or were gone most of the time and I felt very neglected and alone. I was pretty depressed about being mean-girled by my elementary friends. They weren’t really in many of my classes though so I eventually made new friends and had lots of friends in high school, although usually always 1-2 best friends. DS1 is very confident, happy and likes hanging with his parents.

We have school choice and the most difficult middle school transitions were the ones where parents choiced into a different zone and their kids were the new kids, going to school with a bunch of kids who had been together in an immersion program since K and weren’t really interested in new friends. Several of them moved back to our middle school, so I don’t necessarily think switching schools is the answer, unless your child really wants to.

This sounds a lot like my DS only we got him a Gabb Phone at first, so it wasn't as much of an issue the first year.  DS is pretty shy so I had to scaffold his phone skills.  "DS, get so and so's phone number", ask parents for people's phone numbers.  He doesn't necessarily chat, but there are plans being made usually by other people.  But I did a curriculum this summer with him on this is how people make plans.  I did a Chat GPT conversation and kind of broke down hey this is the first request, then they respond, this is how you follow up and sometimes you have to follow up a few times to get all the pieces of the get together down.  We've also started a group family chat, and I do see him sending memes to friends.  So he has gotten better.  If he is visiting with a cousin, I would take the phone in that situation so that he can be in the moment.  When grandparents came to visit, DS at least went to another room to watch TV or do whatever instead of sitting in the same room with them and taking out his phone.  We talk enough about phone stuff though that he knows we will take it if he isn't doing whatever, and he is generally compliant with that.  

I typically didn't bother with making him text friends unless we had a week of nothing going on.  But if he had camp which was a lot of weeks, then I wouldn't ask him to make any plans.  So I think he really only texted maybe 3 times to make a plan, and only 1 worked out, but then that put him back on the radar of kids, so they were asking him and a couple of those worked out.  So overall, he did get to see friends a few times this summer.  

[sent]

Thank you all again, so many of your responses are speaking so directly to me.

I will try to find some kind of counselor just to make sure everything is ok. I used to be so afraid to talk to my parents about anything social at school because they didn't care about anything social at school and only wanted to hear about anything academic. With DD it's the opposite, I tell her all the time to share her problems and concerns with me or else I can't help her if I don't know there is an issue. Initially she has some speech issues that might have made her less likely to speak up. We felt the school's approach to therapy was not aggressive enough so we put her in private therapy and she still goes every other week. The current speech therapist said her pronunciations have improved a lot but she basically needs to turn up the volume on her voice. Even before the therapist told me this, I was always saying to DD, "Turn up the volume! I can't hear you!" while turning an invisible dial to the right.

basilosaurus , what you wrote about your dad talking about making friends being a difficult skill to learn and coming from a place of love, that hit a chord with me. I feel the same way for my kids but I haven't really said it so directly to them yet as I don't think they would understand without taking it the wrong way. Related, there is definitely a social order at the school and I want DD to be on the rising end of that. I felt it at Back to School night last year. I mentioned to the math teacher that I was DD's mom and that she can be a little quiet but she loves school and is happy to be in her class. The teacher just gave me a half hearted "oh nice to meet you" with a fake smile. A mom friend of mine came up next to me and said she was "Jennifer's mom." All of a sudden, the math teacher started gushing "Oh Jennifer's so great, Jen this, Jen that," and the teacher was very interested in speaking with Jennifer's mom. I've seen Jennifer from a young age that she is not afraid to approach strangers, become their best friend and proceed to sell them 6 boxes of Girl Scout cookies they didn't know they needed. So I'm not surprised that the teacher had noticed her while DD was basically invisible to her.

I feel a lot better about all of this and have some ideas how to manage this. I don't think I can easily ask the school to switch her lunch group because it's alphabetical this year, but I can always have that conversation if it comes down to it.

Yesterday I picked her up from soccer practice. This is the 4th year she is with these girls and they all go to her school. DD keeps asking to play soccer again each season so we let her even though it's rough on my schedule to manage it. That makes me think she is happy with interacting with these kids even if she's most quiet one on the team.

[waverly]

sent, if she has played soccer with them for 4 years, then I would definitely start with them. Ask her if any of her soccer team is in her lunch and if she feels she could sit next to them.

This is DD's 3rd year on her team, and while there are a couple of girls that are now "popular" and don't talk to others outside their group, DD is still friendly with at least 5 of them. A few go to different schools, so that is why the number isn't higher for eating together at lunch.

[minzy]

I’m glad you have some ideas. I would agree with the therapy for her for this and other reasons - it really can’t hurt. My similarly aged daughter loves her therapist, I’m not exactly sure what they talk about in there (friends, executive functioning, the amygdala once, nerves over sports competitions, they made affirmation cards one time…) etc. This woman is so young she could also probably technically be my daughter 🤪 but my kid loves her and this person is a trusted adult so we pay the money every two weeks and roll with it.

Am I remembering correctly that your daughter is on the younger end for her grade? Just wondering if that might be a component too.