Harris / TFG Debate @@ included in thread

[fernweh]

I skimmed a Fox News article that stated Kamala was the clear winner but only because the moderators “aggressively fact checked” Trump

Um yeah - because he was aggressively lying.

[sequins]

Sept 11, 2024 6:51:03 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Sept 11, 2024 6:35:56 GMT -5 dirtyred said:

Go over to r/conservative if you want to read responses by people who have fully drunk the Kool Aid.

what shocks me is there are people I know who did not drink (Kool aid) 4 or 8 years ago who now do. I fully expected the opposite.

I guess it's true if you repeat a lie often enough it can turn.

I'm even seeing "she just turned black" take hold

I am 10000000% sure these are not new supporters. People who are showing their asses now publicly for sure supported him privately before. These people just can't hide their racism and misogyny anymore when faced with a woman of color as a potential president. 

[rubytue]

I could not follow this thread live and watch the debate and interact with the people in the house.

But I need to get this out. The pet this is so ridiculously over the top in all ways. I almost posted about it a day or two ago when I saw the first tweet from JD, but it was just so dehumanizing and vile I couldn’t bring myself to give “air time” to it. But the fact it’s sticking around 🤢 my friend and I are arguing about it, he says he doesn’t mind it getting traction because it’s so easily disproved. I’m like, but disproving it doesn’t help for the people who never let facts get in the way of their opinion. Plus, it’s the dehumanizing part and othering. Apparently Arizona republicans have put up a chik-fil-a style “eat less kittens” vote Republican billboard. And history tells us what happens next. Plus, we have to waste time with it. So, the fact it got big enough to make it to the national debate stage gives me chills.

edit: I’m going put in the snopes fact check of the billboard thing www.snopes.com/news/2024/09/10/haitian-immigrants-eat-less-kittens-billboards/

[cville]

Sept 11, 2024 6:34:49 GMT -5 dirtyred said:

DJT stock is down 17% in pretrading this morning.

On the one hand, ha ha ha ha.

On the other, a stark reminder that EVERYONE knows he's a grifter who cares only about self protection and enrichment and would absolutely use the presidency to benefit his companies directly.

[cville]

Sept 11, 2024 7:18:00 GMT -5 janegold said:

I do honestly wish the moderators had been a little more...moderate. Not that I didn't enjoy hearing them call him out on his BS, and I think the true fact checking was appropriate, but I knew the right would start crying about an unfair debate.

Agreed. I wouldn't want one fewer fact check of him, but she was AWESOME and...sometimes vague on policy. If they'd hit her a couple times on that, she'd have handled it AND it would've neutralized a bit. It also would have given folks the opportunity to see her strengths.

[ECB]

Sept 11, 2024 6:35:56 GMT -5 dirtyred said:

Sept 11, 2024 6:29:59 GMT -5 ECB said:

i went to X at 3am just to see what people were saying. It was pretty hysterical! Minions refusing to see reality.

Lots of “she was fed the questions ahead of time!” Um, yeah, because she prepared and it’s not that hard to figure out what’s going to be asked!!

One guy said Trump was calm and presidential. 😂😂😂

Go over to r/conservative if you want to read responses by people who have fully drunk the Kool Aid.

Um.... I have to work!!!  I don't have time for this rabbit hole....   

[Deleted]

Sept 11, 2024 7:12:20 GMT -5 fernweh said:

Sept 10, 2024 22:14:50 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

Taylor Swift finally endorced Kamala

I’m wondering if there are stats out there about how much an endorsement like this will help. Pre 2016 I gave zero Fs which celeb endorsed who. Since 2016 a celeb endorsement for Trump makes me stop supporting that celeb, not sway me to vote for Trump.

ETA - I am not one to stan celebrities though, so that might make a difference?

Taylor Swift has an amazing amount of influence over young people. She’s encouraged a lot of people to register to vote. I imagine there are many young women (and men!) who may have grown up in conservative households and may have never voted or thought their opinions mattered, who are now registered and will now vote for Harris because of her stance. Whether or not the official endorsement will make a difference, it’s hard to tell. But Swifties are a formidable force, and a huge voting bloc.

[underwaterrhymes]

Sept 11, 2024 7:14:04 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Seriously, Harris really gave a Master Class in how to debate a narcissist last night. The way she wove in little digs that she knew would send him off the rails, while still answering the questions was absolutely fucking brilliant.

Haha, I just hopped on Twitter and I swear I am not Angry Staffer. They said almost exactly what I said here. I was like, wait, did I write this? 🤣

[aurora]

Sept 11, 2024 8:11:15 GMT -5 cville said:

Sept 11, 2024 7:18:00 GMT -5 janegold said:

I do honestly wish the moderators had been a little more...moderate. Not that I didn't enjoy hearing them call him out on his BS, and I think the true fact checking was appropriate, but I knew the right would start crying about an unfair debate.

Agreed. I wouldn't want one fewer fact check of him, but she was AWESOME and...sometimes vague on policy. If they'd hit her a couple times on that, she'd have handled it AND it would've neutralized a bit. It also would have given folks the opportunity to see her strengths.

But even pressing her for more detailed policy would have been unequal if they didn't do the same for him. The fast that media has done so much "both sides"-ing has contributed to legitimizing him. I am glad they fact checked the most blatant lies. If more of them were on his side, that's not their fault.

[ellipses84]

Sept 11, 2024 6:37:50 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Sept 10, 2024 21:07:30 GMT -5 smock said:

This is probably the most effective I’ve ever seen someone debating Trump. And it’s working great!

I can’t remember if I saw this here or not, but I read somewhere that they had someone dress up like him during prep.

When she got him to shake her hand even though he was trying to avoid it, I was like, she definitely practiced every scenario on a stage set up. As for debating, she could have done that with her eyes closed without any practice. What she said is what she’s been saying for years, and what she’s said in recent campaign speeches (although I’m sure she prepared a lot too, because that’s who she is). And he said all the gibberish garage world salad he says in his campaign speeches, just shorter.

Speaking of word salad, one thing he said I don’t think a lot of people fully understood was him taking credit for this… 😳 Um…what?!!! He wasn’t in office. Did he spill a National security secret?

www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-germany-is-right-fully-investigate-nord-stream-pipeline-blasts-2024-09-09/

[lilac05]

Sept 11, 2024 8:27:33 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Sept 11, 2024 7:12:20 GMT -5 fernweh said:

I’m wondering if there are stats out there about how much an endorsement like this will help. Pre 2016 I gave zero Fs which celeb endorsed who. Since 2016 a celeb endorsement for Trump makes me stop supporting that celeb, not sway me to vote for Trump.

ETA - I am not one to stan celebrities though, so that might make a difference?

Taylor Swift has an amazing amount of influence over young people. She’s encouraged a lot of people to register to vote. I imagine there are many young women (and men!) who may have grown up in conservative households and may have never voted or thought their opinions mattered, who are now registered and will now vote for Harris because of her stance. Whether or not the official endorsement will make a difference, it’s hard to tell. But Swifties are a formidable force, and a huge voting bloc.

Think about what a difference it would make if Taylor Swift and others used their platforms to say, “Don’t bother voting. It doesn’t really matter anyway.” That would absolutely result in a LOT of people just deciding not to go to the polls. Celebrity endorsements can take the conversation to a different group of people who may otherwise not care. Every single person we can get to use their platform to remind people to check their voter registration, register to vote, and ACTUALLY VOTE is a really good thing!

[DotAndBuzz]

Sept 11, 2024 8:27:33 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Sept 11, 2024 7:12:20 GMT -5 fernweh said:

I’m wondering if there are stats out there about how much an endorsement like this will help. Pre 2016 I gave zero Fs which celeb endorsed who. Since 2016 a celeb endorsement for Trump makes me stop supporting that celeb, not sway me to vote for Trump.

ETA - I am not one to stan celebrities though, so that might make a difference?

Taylor Swift has an amazing amount of influence over young people. She’s encouraged a lot of people to register to vote. I imagine there are many young women (and men!) who may have grown up in conservative households and may have never voted or thought their opinions mattered, who are now registered and will now vote for Harris because of her stance. Whether or not the official endorsement will make a difference, it’s hard to tell. But Swifties are a formidable force, and a huge voting bloc.

Exactly.

Not all celeb endorsements matter, but some have fan bases that ACT. Swift is one of them. She had to spell out to them to leave her exes alone on social media after she drops an album, lol. Swifties will absolutely move to take action on this. I love that she spelled out *how* to do it. Make sure you're registered, and then vote. Early, if you can. People who don't follow swift news won't suddenly be swayed, but her fanbase has taken note, and they're not just tween girls. She's been around for 16 years - a huge part of her fanbase is of voting age.

Also wanted to add that the timing of this endorsement was so clearly planned with the Harris team. They played one of her songs as Harris left the watch party last night, so they had to get the rights to that ahead of time. As with everything in Swift-land, nothing is released on accident.

[DotAndBuzz]

Sept 11, 2024 8:54:43 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

Sept 11, 2024 6:37:50 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

I can’t remember if I saw this here or not, but I read somewhere that they had someone dress up like him during prep.

When she got him to shake her hand even though he was trying to avoid it, I was like, she definitely practiced every scenario on a stage set up. As for debating, she could have done that with her eyes closed without any practice. What she said is what she’s been saying for years, and what she’s said in recent campaign speeches (although I’m sure she prepared a lot too, because that’s who she is). And he said all the gibberish garage world salad he says in his campaign speeches, just shorter.

Speaking of word salad, one thing he said I don’t think a lot of people fully understood was him taking credit for this… 😳 Um…what?!!! He wasn’t in office. Did he spill a National security secret?

www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-germany-is-right-fully-investigate-nord-stream-pipeline-blasts-2024-09-09/

The handshake was the beginning of his undoing. He's a notorious germaphobe. HATES shaking hands. She knew that.

[ellipses84]

Sept 11, 2024 8:07:48 GMT -5 rubytue said:

I could not follow this thread live and watch the debate and interact with the people in the house.

But I need to get this out. The pet this is so ridiculously over the top in all ways. I almost posted about it a day or two ago when I saw the first tweet from JD, but it was just so dehumanizing and vile I couldn’t bring myself to give “air time” to it. But the fact it’s sticking around 🤢 my friend and I are arguing about it, he says he doesn’t mind it getting traction because it’s so easily disproved. I’m like, but disproving it doesn’t help for the people who never let facts get in the way of their opinion. Plus, it’s the dehumanizing part and othering. Apparently Arizona republicans have put up a chik-fil-a style “eat less kittens” vote Republican billboard. And history tells us what happens next. Plus, we have to waste time with it. So, the fact it got big enough to make it to the national debate stage gives me chills.

edit: I’m going put in the snopes fact check of the billboard thing www.snopes.com/news/2024/09/10/haitian-immigrants-eat-less-kittens-billboards/

I hate that too. It’s reviving that racist trope we heard growing up and now it’s been mainstreamed for a new generation to repeat. It’s trending on social media, with the sound bite and videos of people’s pets. They are mocking him, which he hates, but I also hate his voice and that it’s getting any traction to where some people might believe it. I’ve seen some watch party responses to his statement and every crowd busted up laughing. My response was, are you fucking kidding me?!!! Either way, I think the majority of Americans know he is an unhinged liar who will embarrass our country if he’s president, and I think it will make more people embarrassed to vote for him if they were on the fence, then it will gain him any voters, which is our goal.

I did see a funny comment about the debate. It said “There was a documentary in the 1980’s about an illegal alien who ate cats. It was called Alf.”

[basilosaurus]

Sept 11, 2024 7:18:00 GMT -5 janegold said:

I do honestly wish the moderators had been a little more...moderate. Not that I didn't enjoy hearing them call him out on his BS, and I think the true fact checking was appropriate, but I knew the right would start crying about an unfair debate.

disagree.

He out right lied. They absolutely should call him on it every time.

Further they allowed him to interrupt, lie again, and talk way beyond his time.

The sycophants will whine regardless. At least there's a record now if someone saying "not true"

[mags]

Sept 11, 2024 9:18:07 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Sept 11, 2024 7:18:00 GMT -5 janegold said:

I do honestly wish the moderators had been a little more...moderate. Not that I didn't enjoy hearing them call him out on his BS, and I think the true fact checking was appropriate, but I knew the right would start crying about an unfair debate.

disagree.

He out right lied. They absolutely should call him on it every time.

Further they allowed him to interrupt, lie again, and talk way beyond his time.

The sycophants will whine regardless. At least there's a record now if someone saying "not true"

100% THIS  
They should have stopped letting him get all that extra speaking he got by continuing to respond when his time was up!
It's about f'ng time someone fact checked him live!

[hermione]

My husband coached collegiate debate for a very long time and often is asked to comment on presidential debates for news agencies (not this time). He was incredibly impressed that Kamala was able to wade through the garbage and, for the most part, stick to the issues. He also called her comments on his rallies a master class in moving your opponent to an irrelevant talking point.

My FIL is a staunch Trump supporter. The debate moved him to, "Neither one of them are fit to lead this country and I am not voting."

[janegold]

Sept 11, 2024 9:18:07 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Sept 11, 2024 7:18:00 GMT -5 janegold said:

I do honestly wish the moderators had been a little more...moderate. Not that I didn't enjoy hearing them call him out on his BS, and I think the true fact checking was appropriate, but I knew the right would start crying about an unfair debate.

disagree.

He out right lied. They absolutely should call him on it every time.

Further they allowed him to interrupt, lie again, and talk way beyond his time.

The sycophants will whine regardless. At least there's a record now if someone saying "not true"

Totally agree with the fact checking, as said above. But there were times when the moderators pressed him to "answer the question" and didn't do the same to Harris. 

Ultimately agree that there's going to be whining no matter what.  Wonder what a debate hosted on Fox News would look like.

[basilosaurus]

Sure she pivoted to answer what she wanted like all politicians. For better or for worse

I also think it's important for moderators to say in a yes or no question, answer directly yes or no. And hold them to that. I think she went off far less therefore needed less correction

[cville]

Sept 11, 2024 8:48:01 GMT -5 aurora said:

Sept 11, 2024 8:11:15 GMT -5 cville said:

Agreed. I wouldn't want one fewer fact check of him, but she was AWESOME and...sometimes vague on policy. If they'd hit her a couple times on that, she'd have handled it AND it would've neutralized a bit. It also would have given folks the opportunity to see her strengths.

But even pressing her for more detailed policy would have been unequal if they didn't do the same for him. The fast that media has done so much "both sides"-ing has contributed to legitimizing him. I am glad they fact checked the most blatant lies. If more of them were on his side, that's not their fault.

The point is one about which reasonable minds can differ, but you've inadvertently mischaracterized what I said. I did not say I was not glad he was fact checked. And I did not say they shouldn't have pressed him on policy points, too.

All I said was sometimes she was vague, and it would have been to her benefit to be pressed on it. I'll add to that that the inexplicably undecided voters say they crave policy specificity. And it's always good when facing a liar to have receipts. A couple "I was asked about that, and I said ABC" can be helpful.

It's all moot, obviously. But I'm on record excoriating the media for giving him a pass and for bullshit both sides-ism. I wanted to be crystal clear about my views.

[sent]

Someone here taught me the phrase "gish gallop." I don't know how to make things trend on the TikTok, but I feel like gish gallop should be trending so it can become a part of our regular vocabulary. That would make it so easy to call Trump out without using the word "liar."

[basilosaurus]

Sept 11, 2024 9:47:55 GMT -5 sent said:

Someone here taught me the phrase "gish gallop." I don't know how to make things trend on the TikTok, but I feel like gish gallop should be trending so it can become a part of our regular vocabulary. That would make it so easy to call Trump out without using the word "liar."

gish gallop cans from 90s creationist bs, and I knew and it then.

He's absolutely employing those tactics now

[circa1978]

Sept 11, 2024 9:29:48 GMT -5 hermione said:

My husband coached collegiate debate for a very long time and often is asked to comment on presidential debates for news agencies (not this time). He was incredibly impressed that Kamala was able to wade through the garbage and, for the most part, stick to the issues. He also called her comments on his rallies a master class in moving your opponent to an irrelevant talking point.

My FIL is a staunch Trump supporter. The debate moved him to, "Neither one of them are fit to lead this country and I am not voting."

Perfect! Let them all stay home. 

[neverfstop]

Sept 11, 2024 9:29:48 GMT -5 hermione said:

My FIL is a staunch Trump supporter. The debate moved him to, "Neither one of them are fit to lead this country and I am not voting."

I'll take that as a win....
At this point the only thing Trump is really doing is  losing his base that can't stomach his new depths of crazycakes.


I'm seeing this on SM & it's crackling me up every time

[sent]

I watched the debate on YouTube. I had to use the mute button periodically on my laptop because I couldn't handle listening to the lies from him.

[livinitup]

“… They are eating dooooogs.”

A presidential candidate really said that on purpose and with inflection as a counter-point to his opponent’s policy position on legal immigration. Let that sink in.

Did he completely collapsed when pushed back by the moderators ? Yes. “I heard it on TV”

Why did he say it? Why has Vance said it, repeated it, and is still saying it?

Not because it’s true or factual. Because it’s not. We all know it’s not. It’s because people hate hearing different languages in their town. Hate the smell of different food. Hate how different the “new people” are. But it doesn’t get much traction to say “They are speaking funny! And their food smells. It SMELLS funny!”

But to say “they eat cats!” Well, that conjures the exact right amount of horror and repulsion that you are feeling & want the whole country to feel about them, too.

That’s why they don’t care if it’s true. They just love hearing it.

And Trump said it on purpose to get votes.

[neverfstop]

Here to burst your bubble.... NYT spoke with undecideds.

Most waned more policy details from harris or how she was actually going to help them financially.

Some like trump more now and some are still undecided.

www.nytimes.com/2024/09/11/us/politics/undecided-voters-react-debate.html

“Trump had the more commanding presentation,” Mr. Henderson said. “There was nothing done by Harris that made me think she’s better. In any way.”

“When Trump was in office — not going to lie — I was living way better,” she said. “I’ve never been so down as in the past four years. It’s been so hard for me.”

Trump’s pitch was a little more convincing than hers,” Ms. Miller said. “I guess I’m leaning more on his facts than her vision.”

[fernweh]

Several of these undecided voters are saying after watching the debate they are still undecided. I feel like at this point especially after the debate you are still undecided then you aren’t really undecided, you are voting for Trump but are too embarrassed to admit it.

Could be wrong - just a very strong hunch

www.bbc.com/news/articles/ceq53wvpe5xo

[stuffandthings]

Fun fact: some crazypants on a friend's FB post tried defending the "eating pets" rant by claiming it really happened. I posted a Reuters fact check, and she was like, "Well, it says here on this <conspiracy> website so why would I believe the mainstream media..."

And then I pointed out that this theory has been debunked BY THE POLICE in that town.

OMG. The amount of stumbling over herself to "back the blue" without admitting she was wrong was just... incredible.

And then she deleted the entire comment, which I'm counting as a win.

[minzy]

Sept 10, 2024 21:00:52 GMT -5 minzy said:

Wondering what the final tally will be on the words “million” and “billion.”

In case anyone else was curious, I checked the transcript. He said “million” 16 times and “billion” 11 times. So much bigliness!

abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/harris-trump-presidential-debate-transcript/story?id=113560542