Harris / TFG Debate @@ included in thread

[TR]

The NYT is no longer a serious publication.

[stuffandthings]

On the other hand, the BBC spoke with their undecided voters panel and most of them were more swayed toward Harris.

www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/we-spoke-to-6-undecided-voters-post-debate-four-of-them-are-closer-to-a-decision/ar-AA1qmzY1?ocid=BingNewsSerp

[underwaterrhymes]

Sept 11, 2024 10:35:27 GMT -5 TR said:

The NYT is no longer a serious publication.

Yes, I completely disregard anything they publish. Undecided voters my ass.

[cap]

Even if that whole eating pet cats and dogs thing had any shred of truth, then shame on us for treating immigrants so terribly that they have no other options for food.

[jene]

Sarah Longwell also did a focus group with undecided swing state voters, almost all of them moved to Kamala

x.com/sarahlongwell25/status/1833868942344941630?s=46

[fryjack2]

Sept 11, 2024 9:29:48 GMT -5 hermione said:

My husband coached collegiate debate for a very long time and often is asked to comment on presidential debates for news agencies (not this time). He was incredibly impressed that Kamala was able to wade through the garbage and, for the most part, stick to the issues. He also called her comments on his rallies a master class in moving your opponent to an irrelevant talking point.

My FIL is a staunch Trump supporter. The debate moved him to, "Neither one of them are fit to lead this country and I am not voting."

Curious to know what about Trump is now making him unfit in the eyes of your FIL? What was the thing that got him to think this now and not anytime in the last 8+ years?

[somersault72]

I just saw where Trump proclaimed this as his best debate and I would like to know which debate he'd rate as his worst. 😂😂😂

He said that she was weak on foreign policy and immigration.

[hermione]

Sept 11, 2024 11:12:07 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Sept 11, 2024 9:29:48 GMT -5 hermione said:

My husband coached collegiate debate for a very long time and often is asked to comment on presidential debates for news agencies (not this time). He was incredibly impressed that Kamala was able to wade through the garbage and, for the most part, stick to the issues. He also called her comments on his rallies a master class in moving your opponent to an irrelevant talking point.

My FIL is a staunch Trump supporter. The debate moved him to, "Neither one of them are fit to lead this country and I am not voting."

Curious to know what about Trump is now making him unfit in the eyes of your FIL? What was the thing that got him to think this now and not anytime in the last 8+ years?

Sadly, I am guessing it was the eating dogs stuff. The pure nonsense. 

[fryjack2]

Sept 10, 2024 18:07:53 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

Sept 10, 2024 16:52:05 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Is there even a point to this debate?

It seems like its mostly a way for them to make fun of each other and pat themselves on the back for their clever digs like presidential debates seem to have turned into and an opportunity for memes.

Trump supporters will vote for him.

Democrats or those who despise Trump and lean more democrats will vote for her.

Those who don't want to vote for either of them will stay home or vote 3rd party.

I get that you are frustrated, but most people don’t follow politics as much as closely as most of us do. As shocking as it is, there are undecided voters out there and they will decide this election. So yes, this debate is important!!!

Seeing as Biden dropped out after the last debate, they obviously matter.

ETA: or ditto aurora LOL

True. I fully admit I have a ton of anger at the current administration (doesn’t help that a humanitarian safe zone was bombed again yesterday and we weren’t able to reach family there) but I still know I am voting for KH because of the increase damage DT would do if elected.

I also don’t understand undecided voters. We have witnessed Trump and his ridiculousness for 8 plus years. He’s not someone new to get to know. If the indecisiveness is not knowing whether or not you are going to vote at all, I get it. Not knowing which of these two candidates you will vote for does not compute to me.

[cap]

Sept 11, 2024 11:17:16 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Sept 10, 2024 18:07:53 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

I get that you are frustrated, but most people don’t follow politics as much as closely as most of us do. As shocking as it is, there are undecided voters out there and they will decide this election. So yes, this debate is important!!!

Seeing as Biden dropped out after the last debate, they obviously matter.

ETA: or ditto aurora LOL

True. I fully admit I have a ton of anger at the current administration (doesn’t help that a humanitarian safe zone was bombed again yesterday and we weren’t able to reach family there) but I still know I am voting for KH because of the increase damage DT would do if elected.

I also don’t understand undecided voters. We have witnessed Trump and his ridiculousness for 8 plus years. He’s not someone new to get to know. If the indecisiveness is not knowing whether or not you are going to vote at all, I get it. Not knowing which of these two candidates you will vote for does not compute to me.

Maybe it's because they're trying to decide how much of an uncaring asshole they really are. 

[sent]

2016 - Feb. 2020: Trump in office, economy doing well
March 2020 - present: COVID shuts down world, stock market tanks. Biden wins and is handed the post-COVID economy which is shaping up to be ugly right now for regular people. Groceries through the roof, residential real estate out of control.

Someone tell me if my interpretation is accurate? Because I am sick of hearing the "I was doing so much better when Trump was president" line as a reason that he's the better choice.

[rubytue]

Sept 11, 2024 11:50:12 GMT -5 sent said:

2016 - Feb. 2020: Trump in office, economy doing well
March 2020 - present: COVID shuts down world, stock market tanks. Biden wins and is handed the post-COVID economy which is shaping up to be ugly right now for regular people. Groceries through the roof, residential real estate out of control.

Someone tell me if my interpretation is accurate? Because I am sick of hearing the "I was doing so much better when Trump was president" line as a reason that he's the better choice.

You are not wrong. But there is a swath of the country that seems to think the president controls gas prices is a capitalist society. And also don’t get that the policies set don’t really start having effects until the next term. 

[mrsd2006]

Someone on Reddit made the comment "she set traps for him 12 times and he fell in 27 times" lol (paraphrasing)

[sequins]

Sept 11, 2024 10:29:23 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Here to burst your bubble.... NYT spoke with undecideds.

Most waned more policy details from harris or how she was actually going to help them financially.

Some like trump more now and some are still undecided.

www.nytimes.com/2024/09/11/us/politics/undecided-voters-react-debate.html

“Trump had the more commanding presentation,” Mr. Henderson said. “There was nothing done by Harris that made me think she’s better. In any way.”

“When Trump was in office — not going to lie — I was living way better,” she said. “I’ve never been so down as in the past four years. It’s been so hard for me.”

Trump’s pitch was a little more convincing than hers,” Ms. Miller said. “I guess I’m leaning more on his facts than her vision.”

lol sure jan

[carmenere]

Sept 11, 2024 11:50:12 GMT -5 sent said:

2016 - Feb. 2020: Trump in office, economy doing well
March 2020 - present: COVID shuts down world, stock market tanks. Biden wins and is handed the post-COVID economy which is shaping up to be ugly right now for regular people. Groceries through the roof, residential real estate out of control.

Someone tell me if my interpretation is accurate? Because I am sick of hearing the "I was doing so much better when Trump was president" line as a reason that he's the better choice.

To some degree, yes. It’s worth noting that inflation during Trump’s presidency was significantly higher than it was during Obama’s second term.

[sequins]

Sept 11, 2024 11:50:12 GMT -5 sent said:

2016 - Feb. 2020: Trump in office, economy doing well
March 2020 - present: COVID shuts down world, stock market tanks. Biden wins and is handed the post-COVID economy which is shaping up to be ugly right now for regular people. Groceries through the roof, residential real estate out of control.

Someone tell me if my interpretation is accurate? Because I am sick of hearing the "I was doing so much better when Trump was president" line as a reason that he's the better choice.

2016-2020, Trump rode the wave of good economic policies that Obama managed to pass to recover from the financial crisis. 

If you want to argue with people (good luck!), there is no use talking about economic policies and macroeconomics. If people think they are hurting, they are hurting. What helps is to point out Kamala's policies that address things that people care about and can help: Price gouging, child care credit of 6k, small biz funds/tax breaks, student loan forgiveness, bringing down the cost of prescription medicines, potentially removing medical debt from credit score, building new low cost housing.

[ellipses84]

Sept 11, 2024 12:20:07 GMT -5 sequins said:

Sept 11, 2024 11:50:12 GMT -5 sent said:

2016 - Feb. 2020: Trump in office, economy doing well
March 2020 - present: COVID shuts down world, stock market tanks. Biden wins and is handed the post-COVID economy which is shaping up to be ugly right now for regular people. Groceries through the roof, residential real estate out of control.

Someone tell me if my interpretation is accurate? Because I am sick of hearing the "I was doing so much better when Trump was president" line as a reason that he's the better choice.

2016-2020, Trump rode the wave of good economic policies that Obama managed to pass to recover from the financial crisis. 

If you want to argue with people (good luck!), there is no use talking about economic policies and macroeconomics. If people think they are hurting, they are hurting. What helps is to point out Kamala's policies that address things that people care about and can help: Price gouging, child care credit of 6k, small biz funds/tax breaks, student loan forgiveness, bringing down the cost of prescription medicines, potentially removing medical debt from credit score, building new low cost housing.

Everyone except the millionaires and billionaires will be worse off financially under a second Trump Presidency. His “concepts of a plan” would cost Americans so much more than his last presidency. Tariffs on imports would cost each household thousands a year. I saw an estimate that deporting all illegal immigrants is an empty promise because there’s not really resources to do that federally and they would need local law enforcement cooperation at a cost of $17,000 per year per American household, not to mention the cost increases we would see due to things like groceries and housing costs due to the impact of not having enough agricultural and construction workers. The deficit increased under his last presidency, something Rs used to care so much about. Cutting Medicaid and Social Security would completely screw the Boomers immediately, and impact younger generations in many awful ways.

[DotAndBuzz]

Window into the cult - apparently they're saying she was "phony and rehearsed." My FIL posted a link about the "conservative perspective" after the debate, and it included that quote in the headline. Not going to link here, but it was an MSN link to a Fox News piece. Won't call it an actual article.

So just like Hillary, because she actually has fully worked out details and plans, and practiced for the debate, she was "too prepared."

I know my MIL has jumped ship, and just isn't voting, but I was holding out hope for my FIL, as he is a genuinely intelligent person. Guess not.

[sent]

sequins, I'm not getting baited into arguments with anyone who supports him! Just watching the train wreck from afar.

[pixy0stix]

Sept 11, 2024 10:35:27 GMT -5 TR said:

The NYT is no longer a serious publication.

No. Do you want all your news filtered to your preferred preferences, creating a vacuum similar to FOX watchers? Then fine, discredit the NYTimes and just watch MSNBC.

The NYtimes strength has never been "personal" stories, and they sometimes feature heavily a spin that I don't like, but they are always factual.

[starburst604]

Sept 11, 2024 12:52:26 GMT -5 DotAndBuzz said:

Window into the cult - apparently they're saying she was "phony and rehearsed." My FIL posted a link about the "conservative perspective" after the debate, and it included that quote in the headline. Not going to link here, but it was an MSN link to a Fox News piece. Won't call it an actual article.

So just like Hillary, because she actually has fully worked out details and plans, and practiced for the debate, she was "too prepared."

I know my MIL has jumped ship, and just isn't voting, but I was holding out hope for my FIL, as he is a genuinely intelligent person. Guess not.

Also that the earrings she's wearing look the same as some audio earring brand, meaning she had help via a mic feed. Because of course she, a former prosecutor, could not possibly be that prepared and able to think on her feet on her own. 


www.ndtv.com/world-news/did-kamala-harris-wear-audio-earrings-during-presidential-debate-all-you-need-to-know-6542034

[pixy0stix]

In 2020, the highest voting numbers of the 21st century were recorded with close to 67% of registered voters participating.

From the below link - The most common reason for not voting among registered nonvoters was they were not interested in the election (17.6%). Other reasons included not liking the candidates or campaign issues, being too busy and forgetting to vote.

...

There are absolutely people out there that don't give a shit, are one issue voters, or that are incredibly uninformed.

www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2020-presidential-election-voting-and-registration-tables-now-available.html

[neverfstop]

I'm tired of people shitting on NYT and WaPo. They aren't perfect & I don't agree with every story or every reporter or everything they prioritize, but they are also out there doing good, solid journalism 95% of the time & that's what we need more NOT less of these days. Without a free, fair, open, and well-supported media, we don't have a way to enlighten the general public and also investigate/hold accountable our government. I happily subscribe and pay for both. I believe strongly that democracy and a well-educated citizenry need good journalism.

In less serious news...
www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/09/11/harris-trump-facial-expressions-presidential-debate/
How Harris and Trump reacted to each other during the debate, in GIFs
Vice President Kamala Harris and former president Donald Trump used eyebrows, squinting and hand gestures to react to each other during the first debate

[cville]

High school acquaintance who I forgot I still had on Facebook posted that the debate was "worthless" because "no one talked about policy" and although "Trump was Trump," Kamala is a "drama queen" who has an annoying voice. So she is still not sure she's going to vote at all.

I mean, better than voting for 45. But she's a white, privileged, middle/upper middle class lady living in a swing state who "doesn't care about politics," i.e., likes Trump because he seems like an outsider but knows it's less socially acceptable to say so.

And I know she had access to a good education because we went to the same school. She's willfully in her bubble. And she's not alone.

[Deleted]

Sept 11, 2024 11:50:12 GMT -5 sent said:

2016 - Feb. 2020: Trump in office, economy doing well
March 2020 - present: COVID shuts down world, stock market tanks. Biden wins and is handed the post-COVID economy which is shaping up to be ugly right now for regular people. Groceries through the roof, residential real estate out of control.

Someone tell me if my interpretation is accurate? Because I am sick of hearing the "I was doing so much better when Trump was president" line as a reason that he's the better choice.

If I’m being honest, the Dem party messaging of “the economy is doing great, just look at the stock market!” is really not landing well with people who are struggling to pay bills and put food on the table. Traditional markets for how well the economy is doing really don’t measure things that many working class people experience or connect with.

[Deleted]

Sept 11, 2024 10:36:29 GMT -5 stuffandthings said:

On the other hand, the BBC spoke with their undecided voters panel and most of them were more swayed toward Harris.

www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/we-spoke-to-6-undecided-voters-post-debate-four-of-them-are-closer-to-a-decision/ar-AA1qmzY1?ocid=BingNewsSerp

Thinking she won, and deciding to vote for her are two completely different things. I think Trump won the first debate with Biden, but I’d never in a million (billion!) years vote for the guy.

[neverfstop]

Sept 11, 2024 13:57:54 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Sept 11, 2024 11:50:12 GMT -5 sent said:

.

If I’m being honest, the Dem party messaging of “the economy is doing great, just look at the stock market!” is really not landing well with people who are struggling to pay bills and put food on the table. Traditional markets for how well the economy is doing really don’t measure things that many working class people experience or connect with.

Agreed. I (in my little bubble) hear the constant refrain that it's corporate tax cuts, stock buy backs, CEO's making millions,  company profitability high, and then consumers get stuck with inflation* & higher prices.  How do we communicate that in our capitalistic system, it's greedy corporations, shitty tax laws, billionaries making all the money on the backs of the lower 95%?

I follow Robert Reich on SM & he's constantly posting about these topics.

www.instagram.com/rbreich/?hl=en 

[lilac05]

Sept 11, 2024 14:08:07 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Sept 11, 2024 13:57:54 GMT -5 @villainv said:

If I’m being honest, the Dem party messaging of “the economy is doing great, just look at the stock market!” is really not landing well with people who are struggling to pay bills and put food on the table. Traditional markets for how well the economy is doing really don’t measure things that many working class people experience or connect with.

Agreed. I (in my little bubble) hear the constant refrain that it's corporate tax cuts, stock buy backs, CEO's making millions,  company profitability high, and then consumers get stuck with inflation* & higher prices.  How do we communicate that in our capitalistic system, it's greedy corporations, shitty tax laws, billionaries making all the money on the backs of the lower 95%?

I follow Robert Reich on SM & he's constantly posting about these topics.

www.instagram.com/rbreich/?hl=en 

There are a lot of words in there that the average American probably doesn't even know exactly what they mean. I think the best response I have to people talking about how expensive everything has gotten is to suggest that they look up the record breaking corporate profits. Gas is expensive because oil companies are posting BILLIONS of dollars in profits, which enriches the C-suite and investors at the expense of those buying gas. The rich are getting richer because corporate profits and compensation are out of control. Trump supports that. Harris would like to address that. Biden has been unsuccessful in doing that (and so much more) because the House & Senate are so ineffective right now because they're too busy fighting and trying to get the next best sound bite to actually get work done that would benefit the average American citizen.

[neverfstop]

WaPo on swing state voters

23 said harris performed better vs. 2 who said Trump did better
www.washingtonpost.com/elections/interactive/2024/presidential-debate-voter-poll/?itid=hp_politics-national_p004_f001

Their little face photos next to each blurb are cracking me up..
TRUMP PERFORMED BETTER
“I don't think Harris gave any real answers to any question.”
Has a preference for Trump

---------
Did Trump’s statement on immigration make sense to you?
Trump falsely claimed that immigrants are eating pets in Springfield, Ohio. Officials in the city said there is no proof to these claims.
6 people said yes

----------

Who made better arguments on abortion access?
TRUMP
“I don't like the fact this is a discusion, but Trump explained better what to expect from him. I'm pro-choice, but I do agree with limits.”
Konnie 50s, Pa.

---------

2 went from Leans Trump to Leans Harris

So I guess that's good news?

[cville]

Sept 11, 2024 14:24:58 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

WaPo on swing state voters

23 said harris performed better vs. 2 who said Trump did better
www.washingtonpost.com/elections/interactive/2024/presidential-debate-voter-poll/?itid=hp_politics-national_p004_f001

Their little face photos next to each blurb are cracking me up..
TRUMP PERFORMED BETTER
“I don't think Harris gave any real answers to any question.”
Has a preference for Trump

---------
Did Trump’s statement on immigration make sense to you?
Trump falsely claimed that immigrants are eating pets in Springfield, Ohio. Officials in the city said there is no proof to these claims.
6 people said yes

----------

Who made better arguments on abortion access?
TRUMP
“I don't like the fact this is a discusion, but Trump explained better what to expect from him. I'm pro-choice, but I do agree with limits.”
Konnie 50s, Pa.

---------

2 went from Leans Trump to Leans Harris

So I guess that's good news?

People are really obtuse.

They asked who agreed with Kamala's statement that no matter where we're from we have the same dreams and aspirations and let's focus on that and not division.

One woman said that she "disagreed somewhat" because:

"We all have different dreams and aspirations, but we do need to stop the division.”

LADY. She didn't mean same like "everyone in the entire country wants to be a computer programmer and live in a ranch style house." Come the fuck on.