Houses Washed Into the Sea Part 23534564 (Galveston)

[wawa]

I know we love this topic.  And by "we" I mean me and pixy0stix.

Latest Installment - Galveston, TX. 

WaPo Gift Link: 

wapo.st/3ZyomGs

I haven't finished reading it yet.  It's fascinating (and infuriating) so far. 
The thing that's made my eyebrows fly up is that we're not just talking about hurricane damage or erosion here, they're installing pumps to address tidal flooding!  That's expensive infrastructure that will need constant maintenance and power and be running on a regular basis.

Tidal flooding is on my mind recently because it's been INTENSE in MD lately.  I don't live near water, but I own a small boat, and from April-Oct I'm checking the weather for the area where my boat is docked pretty much every thurs/fri, so I'm constnatly seeing the alerts for coastal flooding anytime we have some combo of full moon, sustained north winds (which pushes water up the bay) and/or steady rain.  The whole of the chesapeake bay has had high high tides for the past 3 days.  Ironman Maryland was over the weekend in Cambridge, MD and sections of the run course and transition area were apparently flooded by the high tide.  The dock where my boat lives was underwater at high tide all weekend, and it's the I dunno.....6th or 7th time it's happened this year?  That used to be a 2-3 times a year MAX event.  Downtown Annapolis had out the sandbags.  

x.com/AvaWBAL/status/1838140109285134711

It's a whole ass thing, and it's way way more frequent than it used to be, and I really don't know how much money we should be spending on trying to mitigate it vs. just BACKING AWAY FROM THE WATER.  Like, building a new condo building within likely flood zone?  NO.  STOP IT.  But like...historic downtown annapolis, including the Naval Academy.  Oh...uhhh....well...I mean, I'd like to see that preserved??  But is that fair?  does that actually make sense?  Is it just because it's made of pretty red bricks and I like to look at it, or is there actually enough public value to justify the cost?  I don't know how we answer that.

[pixy0stix]

YES! *fist pump*

I was reading about the houses that have fallen along the Outer Banks this year over the weekend - www.wbtv.com/2024/09/20/another-house-collapses-into-ocean-along-north-carolinas-outer-banks-3rd-this-year/

[pixy0stix]

Oh, and there was really bad news regarding the Doomsday Glacier last week - www.cnn.com/2024/09/20/climate/doomsday-glacier-thwaites-melt-sea-level-rise/index.html

[scm1011]

Speaking of tidal flooding, this was the sidewalk across the street from my office this weekend - completely due to tides, not a storm. This area floods more and more frequently now and I really don't know what the city plans to do about it.

[wawa]

Sept 23, 2024 13:18:23 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oh, and there was really bad news regarding the Doomsday Glacier last week - www.cnn.com/2024/09/20/climate/doomsday-glacier-thwaites-melt-sea-level-rise/index.html

this is a hell of a line.

Even if humans stop burning fossil fuels rapidly — which is not happening — it may be too late to save it.

[pixy0stix]

Sept 23, 2024 13:36:10 GMT -5 wawa said:

Sept 23, 2024 13:18:23 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oh, and there was really bad news regarding the Doomsday Glacier last week - www.cnn.com/2024/09/20/climate/doomsday-glacier-thwaites-melt-sea-level-rise/index.html

this is a hell of a line.

Even if humans stop burning fossil fuels rapidly — which is not happening — it may be too late to save it.

*beats drum* DOOM DOOM DOOM - We are fucked - DOOM DOOM DOOM

[wawa]

Sept 23, 2024 13:38:27 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Sept 23, 2024 13:36:10 GMT -5 wawa said:

this is a hell of a line.

*beats drum* DOOM DOOM DOOM - We are fucked - DOOM DOOM DOOM

last line of the WaPo Galveston piece:

“I don’t think people really understand what’s coming,” Parkinson, the Florida International University researcher, said of the sea level rise projected over coming decades.

“It’s nothing anybody has ever experienced,” he said. “It’s taken a long time to get to where things are now, but now it is coming fast.”

[havarti]

Last time this came up I went down the rabbit hole and found this really well done article. 34 BILLION dollars to build a sea wall for Galveston and the surrounding areas!!! apps.npr.org/arctic-ice-melting-climate-change/texas-galveston-sea-level-rise.html

[pixy0stix]

I'm halfway through the Galveston article and I'm in awe of how much money the government has already thrown into the ocean.

Some days I just want the governments of these places to allow the developments and allow them to be sold with a very clear - THE GOVERNMENT WILL NOT SPEND MONEY TO BAIL YOU OUT WHEN THIS FAILS and just let the people get on with it. I figure anyone along the coasts that have bought within the last 10 years kind of deserve what they get. You want to be dumb, ok, but you're being dumb on your own.

Then the government can focus on spending the money on relocating the people that really don't have a choice.

Even reading about the plans that aren't going to come to fruition for a couple of decades... do they not have any climate scientists looking at these? Because most of them aren't going to have any actual land to be built upon when they start.

[wawa]

this was linked in one of the stories above -
Glad to know I'm not crazy. The dock my boat ties up at was re-built (higher) in roughly 2005. At the time it was well above typical high tide. It's not anymore. But good to know the data agrees with me.

sealevel.nasa.gov/flooding-analysis-tool/observed-flooding?station-id=8575512

[livinitup]

Sept 23, 2024 13:08:59 GMT -5 wawa said:

I know we love this topic.  And by "we" I mean me and pixy0stix.

Latest Installment - Galveston, TX. 

WaPo Gift Link: 

wapo.st/3ZyomGs

I haven't finished reading it yet.  It's fascinating (and infuriating) so far. 
The thing that's made my eyebrows fly up is that we're not just talking about hurricane damage or erosion here, they're installing pumps to address tidal flooding!  That's expensive infrastructure that will need constant maintenance and power and be running on a regular basis.

Tidal flooding is on my mind recently because it's been INTENSE in MD lately.  I don't live near water, but I own a small boat, and from April-Oct I'm checking the weather for the area where my boat is docked pretty much every thurs/fri, so I'm constnatly seeing the alerts for coastal flooding anytime we have some combo of full moon, sustained north winds (which pushes water up the bay) and/or steady rain.  The whole of the chesapeake bay has had high high tides for the past 3 days.  Ironman Maryland was over the weekend in Cambridge, MD and sections of the run course and transition area were apparently flooded by the high tide.  The dock where my boat lives was underwater at high tide all weekend, and it's the I dunno.....6th or 7th time it's happened this year?  That used to be a 2-3 times a year MAX event.  Downtown Annapolis had out the sandbags.  

x.com/AvaWBAL/status/1838140109285134711

It's a whole ass thing, and it's way way more frequent than it used to be, and I really don't know how much money we should be spending on trying to mitigate it vs. just BACKING AWAY FROM THE WATER.  Like, building a new condo building within likely flood zone?  NO.  STOP IT.  But like...historic downtown annapolis, including the Naval Academy.  Oh...uhhh....well...I mean, I'd like to see that preserved??  But is that fair?  does that actually make sense?  Is it just because it's made of pretty red bricks and I like to look at it, or is there actually enough public value to justify the cost?  I don't know how we answer that.

Thank you wawa. I had to pause reading when I got to the 57 Billion price tag over 10 years. What the actual f*ck? To protect the coastline? For condos?

Why aren’t we giving 1 billion dollars to 57 universities over the next 10 years? Or if we want to support housing, how about 1 billion dollars to 57 cities for 10 years for affordable housing construction?

[wawa]

The Galveston example is particularly poetic with the amount of oil infrastructure surrounding it. How we are reaping what we've sown, and all that.

[Michelle]

I have BOI family and they really can't afford to relocate. If the government tried to help them they'd refuse. They refuse to cross the causeway to the mainland.

The stubbornness is like a resilience pride, instead of pragmatism. It's crazy.

I did always wonder why their houses didn't flood though around the time of Ike. Thanks for sharing this article, Wawa, because I didn't realize just HOW MUCH their houses had been raised (their homes are in the raised part of the island).

But the houses did flood with Harvey, and the waves weren't that high like with Ike. It was just sustained high water.

AND most all of the flood waters from Houston are designed to drain through the bayous to the oceans and bays. I mean, the water is going to be rising on all sides people.

I feel like I need to go find and dust off the vhs I had (I hope it is had and it isn't hoarded away somewhere) of waterworld. I do feel like we are all going to be living in Venice-like conditions soon.

[ellipses84]

I don’t *love* any of this, having been a climate disaster survivor / victim / evacuee 2x but I am following along with you 👀 Sometimes I don’t have the energy to talk about it. I witnessed neighbors dealing with city buyouts of their properties for a fraction of what they used to be worth. Luckily, we were renters who could walk away although slumlords kept renovating and re-renting. There’s a lot of naive and innocent victims and although we roll our eyes at the multi-million dollar mansions that keep being rebuilt on the sea, climate change is going to ultimately impact the most vulnerable people with the least resources the most. I know I’m preaching to the choir! I feel like people IRL treat me like I’m a crazy old soothsayer when I passionately talk about it 🔮

[pixy0stix]

I'm still reading. I'm having a hard time with the idiots in the condos where the government said they were in grave danger and they hired some engineering firm that told them it's fine right now. Like... whut?

Also, I know people don't read the news that much, but you would think that actually seeing beach nourishment projects be washed away repeatedly in front of your eyes would lead to you NOT pinning your hopes on another beach nourishment project... and yet here those people are doing just that.

[wawa]

Sept 23, 2024 13:48:34 GMT -5 livinitup said:

Sept 23, 2024 13:08:59 GMT -5 wawa said:

I know we love this topic.  And by "we" I mean me and pixy0stix .

Latest Installment - Galveston, TX. 

WaPo Gift Link: 

wapo.st/3ZyomGs

I haven't finished reading it yet.  It's fascinating (and infuriating) so far. 
The thing that's made my eyebrows fly up is that we're not just talking about hurricane damage or erosion here, they're installing pumps to address tidal flooding!  That's expensive infrastructure that will need constant maintenance and power and be running on a regular basis.

Tidal flooding is on my mind recently because it's been INTENSE in MD lately.  I don't live near water, but I own a small boat, and from April-Oct I'm checking the weather for the area where my boat is docked pretty much every thurs/fri, so I'm constnatly seeing the alerts for coastal flooding anytime we have some combo of full moon, sustained north winds (which pushes water up the bay) and/or steady rain.  The whole of the chesapeake bay has had high high tides for the past 3 days.  Ironman Maryland was over the weekend in Cambridge, MD and sections of the run course and transition area were apparently flooded by the high tide.  The dock where my boat lives was underwater at high tide all weekend, and it's the I dunno.....6th or 7th time it's happened this year?  That used to be a 2-3 times a year MAX event.  Downtown Annapolis had out the sandbags.  

x.com/AvaWBAL/status/1838140109285134711

It's a whole ass thing, and it's way way more frequent than it used to be, and I really don't know how much money we should be spending on trying to mitigate it vs. just BACKING AWAY FROM THE WATER.  Like, building a new condo building within likely flood zone?  NO.  STOP IT.  But like...historic downtown annapolis, including the Naval Academy.  Oh...uhhh....well...I mean, I'd like to see that preserved??  But is that fair?  does that actually make sense?  Is it just because it's made of pretty red bricks and I like to look at it, or is there actually enough public value to justify the cost?  I don't know how we answer that.

Thank you wawa. I had to pause reading when I got to the 57 Billion price tag over 10 years. What the actual f*ck? To protect the coastline? For condos?

Why aren’t we giving 1 billion dollars to 57 universities over the next 10 years? Or if we want to support housing, how about 1 billion dollars to 57 cities for 10 years for affordable housing construction?

so I think one thing worth keeping in mind because of course it's not that simple - protecting Galveston's protects Houston's port facilities in the bay behind it.  The more wind/wave/water energy the barrier island can absorb, the less damage the same storm does to the facilities in the bay behind it (it's not that simple, but it is a little bit that simple).  So yes, condo buildings.  But also the island as a whole serves a bigger purpose and if they were to just let it wash away, the mainland takes all that force instead.  So even if nobody lived there, the Army Corps would probably have a whole plan to pump more sand out there. 

[pixy0stix]

Fun article regarding Fed funded beach nourishment - www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-u-s-spends-a-fortune-on-beach-sand-that-storms-just-wash-away/

By "fun" I mean that it concludes that it's a futile exercise but people don't care because they're still getting that tourist money who cares about all the other issues.

[ellipses84]

My latest fascination on this topic could be a Venn Diagram for CE&P. Trump’s Golf Course south of Los Angeles and all of the houses around it are sliding towards the ocean. Heavy rains over the past 2 years have made the situation rapidly worse. Utilities have been cut off to many houses. The historic Architectural Landmark, The Wayfarer’s Chapel is across the street from the golf course and is being disassembled and relocated. It’s a tragic situation for the homeowners and the chapel. I will not be sad about the golf course. The 18th hole had already collapsed into the ocean when he bought it in 2002 from bankrupt developers. I was scratching my head when he had a campaign stop in LA right after the debate but it was so he could make a speech at the golf course trashing Newsom, Harris, the state of CA and have one of his grifting fundraisers. Newsom has declared a state of emergency for the area. I think another poster mentioned the recently and maybe they or their parent live in the area.

www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-09-05/unprecedented-landslides-have-rancho-palos-verdes-asking-how-much-worse-can-it-get

abc7.com/amp/post/donald-trump-hold-news-conference-friday-rancho-palos-verdes/15299180/

www.wayfarerschapel.org/wayfarers-chapel-restoration/

This week is my bday and 2 years ago I had a bday weekend in LA doing all the things *I* wanted to do, including going to the Wayfarers Chapel, which was magical ✨ This is your reminder to do things while you have the opportunity because they may not be around forever 😭

[pixy0stix]

Not houses being washed into the sea, but locally the news reported that people bought houses that a developer built on filled in retention pond land. They had periodically had water encroachment since they were built, and finally something happened that the government stepped in and forced them to sell - www.9news.com/article/life/johnstown-families-move-homes-built-retention-pond/73-c4a48fde-8e7f-4fd4-8299-803cb37301cf


Lots of comments were about, "Why did the city permit these?" and "Where were the inspections on these?"

Let me tell you, developers are shady as shit. They often try to build extra houses and think they can slip them by inspections, and in some areas they do. Either because the city doesn't have enough funds to pay for building inspectors or other governmental shortfalls. This was probably caught after the retention pond infill and construction began, and no one at the city wanted to face the political fallout of telling the developer to tear them down.

Which leads me to the entirety of this thread, the government failing to do what is politically a nightmare, and telling people No. I don't know if we'll ever actually get to that point, where the feds actually say, "No. No more money to help save what we can. We have to focus on relocation."

[Michelle]

Sept 23, 2024 14:07:41 GMT -5 wawa said:

Sept 23, 2024 13:48:34 GMT -5 livinitup said:

Thank you wawa. I had to pause reading when I got to the 57 Billion price tag over 10 years. What the actual f*ck? To protect the coastline? For condos?

Why aren’t we giving 1 billion dollars to 57 universities over the next 10 years? Or if we want to support housing, how about 1 billion dollars to 57 cities for 10 years for affordable housing construction?

so I think one thing worth keeping in mind because of course it's not that simple - protecting Galveston's protects Houston's port facilities in the bay behind it.  The more wind/wave/water energy the barrier island can absorb, the less damage the same storm does to the facilities in the bay behind it (it's not that simple, but it is a little bit that simple).  So yes, condo buildings.  But also the island as a whole serves a bigger purpose and if they were to just let it wash away, the mainland takes all that force instead.  So even if nobody lived there, the Army Corps would probably have a whole plan to pump more sand out there. 

Good points. Port of Houston is the biggest cargo port in the U.S. and I think #5 in container ports after L.A., NYC, a city in Georgia, and two others.


The earlier point up thread about oil being in our back yard is hilarious too. People complain that Galveston isn't a lovely beach like western Florida beaches. But when i was a kid we had to use the scratchy soap in the huge orange bottle that mechanics use to wash the tar off of us if we swam in Galveston. It is so much cleaner now, thanks to the EPA.

[bears]

Did anyone listen to the 99% Invisible series on climate change called "Not Built for This"?

I think it did a good job of outlining a lot of options in terms of response, buyouts, and walking away.

99percentinvisible.org/nbft/

[sonrisa]

Sept 23, 2024 13:43:46 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

THE GOVERNMENT WILL NOT SPEND MONEY TO BAIL YOU OUT WHEN THIS FAILS

Tidal flooding during heavy rains is an issue near the highway around here - most of what floods is protected marshland (rather than developed). However, there is one bus stop that becomes useless every king tide during rainy season. The local government paid to make sure the major road has proper drainage and doesn't flood, but hasn't even bothered to relocate a fairly popular bus stop or the even more major bus stop down the highway.

If you think they'll build you a personal sea wall, you aren't paying attention. 

[mofongo]

Sept 23, 2024 13:16:58 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

YES! *fist pump*

I was reading about the houses that have fallen along the Outer Banks this year over the weekend - www.wbtv.com/2024/09/20/another-house-collapses-into-ocean-along-north-carolinas-outer-banks-3rd-this-year/

I thought of you during a tiktok rabbit hole I went down last week of beach front houses falling into the ocean in NC! And there was something weird, like they couldn’t be knocked down proactively, but once they fell in, clean up crews would come.

[Susie]

Sept 23, 2024 13:08:59 GMT -5 wawa said:

Ironman Maryland was over the weekend in Cambridge, MD and sections of the run course and transition area were apparently flooded by the high tide.  

Peripheral to the main point of the OP, someone I know participated (finished), and she said the water was thigh deep in places on the run course!?  She posted photos of runners in just ankle deep water, but still, what a miserable marathon.  And I can't imagine how they handled the bike portion.

[basilosaurus]

I'm from s FL so basically sea level. During spring (lunar, not spring season) tides we knew not to travel certain streets because the storm drains would back up and therefore salt water was in deep puddles. I accepted that as normal when living in the coast. Tides happen, and some are bigger than normal.

As much as I want to tell at communities what did you expect to happen! I also think of many maybe generations dealing with the sea encroaching as part of normal. The difference is now it's very abnormal. And I have zero concern about recent vacation home owners. My family might have been there as subsistence sea people since 1700s. You want a vacation home. Fuck off

[noodleoo]

Sept 23, 2024 13:28:54 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

Speaking of tidal flooding, this was the sidewalk across the street from my office this weekend - completely due to tides, not a storm. This area floods more and more frequently now and I really don't know what the city plans to do about it.

These pics blew my mind. We take the kids there over the summer when we go into Boston. The water is usually like 10-20’ feet lower. I’ve never seen it that high. It’s terrifying.

[mrshandy]

Random tangential question why do they let these houses fall into the sea instead of just tearing them down? They are uninhabited and condemned. Seems like a good way to pollute the ocean. Is it too hard to tear them down because they are on sand ?

[pixy0stix]

Sept 24, 2024 7:28:53 GMT -5 mrshandy said:

Random tangential question why do they let these houses fall into the sea instead of just tearing them down? They are uninhabited and condemned. Seems like a good way to pollute the ocean. Is it too hard to tear them down because they are on sand ?

I've read lots of reasons about why. One of the NC houses was going to be torn down but construction hadn't started when it collapsed on it's own. There was another house elsewhere that was tied up in legal tape (owners were hoping to move it instead of tear down), and it collapsed prematurely. Some are too unstable to reach with equipment. And on and on...

[formerlyak]

Sept 23, 2024 14:23:59 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

My latest fascination on this topic could be a Venn Diagram for CE&P. Trump’s Golf Course south of Los Angeles and all of the houses around it are sliding towards the ocean. Heavy rains over the past 2 years have made the situation rapidly worse. Utilities have been cut off to many houses. The historic Architectural Landmark, The Wayfarer’s Chapel is across the street from the golf course and is being disassembled and relocated. It’s a tragic situation for the homeowners and the chapel. I will not be sad about the golf course. The 18th hole had already collapsed into the ocean when he bought it in 2002 from bankrupt developers. I was scratching my head when he had a campaign stop in LA right after the debate but it was so he could make a speech at the golf course trashing Newsom, Harris, the state of CA and have one of his grifting fundraisers. Newsom has declared a state of emergency for the area. I think another poster mentioned the recently and maybe they or their parent live in the area.

www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-09-05/unprecedented-landslides-have-rancho-palos-verdes-asking-how-much-worse-can-it-get

abc7.com/amp/post/donald-trump-hold-news-conference-friday-rancho-palos-verdes/15299180/

www.wayfarerschapel.org/wayfarers-chapel-restoration/

This week is my bday and 2 years ago I had a bday weekend in LA doing all the things *I* wanted to do, including going to the Wayfarers Chapel, which was magical ✨ This is your reminder to do things while you have the opportunity because they may not be around forever 😭

I’m the poster who lives in the area. I’m not on the peninsula. I’m down the hill. And my mom is at the base of the hill on the land side. So it’s local to us. Some is due to coastal erosion and some stems from unstable pockets inside the land a bit away from the cliffs. But we’ve known this for years. I learned how to drive on the road that passes Trump’s golf course and the road was moving then. This should not be surprising. I feel bad for the older residents who bought these houses decades ago, before anyone knew how bad it was. I don’t feel bad for the guy they showed on the news a million times when the has got shut off to those houses who bought three years ago. He clearly didn’t do his research.

[formerlyak]

Here’s more info on the landslides in the LA area and what is accelerating them.

laist.com/news/climate-environment/rancho-palos-verdes-landslide-geology