Dockworkers at ports from Maine to Texas go on strike

[Michelle]

Oct 4, 2024 15:45:26 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Oct 2, 2024 19:53:14 GMT -5 Nugget T. Brain, The OG said:

So they were offered a 50% pay increase, better healthcare and triple retirement contribution and they said no.

Because they want no automation and a 77% raise.

I need someone to explain to me why I should be fully on their side on this.

They settled on a 62% raise. 

The no automation thing is a head scratcher for me too. These jobs are repetitive and dangerous, some automation is not a bad thing (thinking decrease in wrongful death litigation, increase in efficiency). Sometimes unions shoot themselves in the foot by dismissing automation so someone w a clipboard can manually write down numbers and continue to earn an above average salary. This only feeds into the public's distain for them. 

Full disclosure, J is a union member, he's not crazy about it but he sees the benefits. The utility he works for uses some automation for efficiency reasons but they'll never go full automation. 

This is how I feel about it. Let's be pragmatic. Whether it is buying lifting equipment for patients so you don't need 4 PCAs to move someone or turn them, or some robotic equipment to move boxes around, automating the jobs that injure people and put them out of work is a net positive. Then learn how to operate those machines or so the higher-level skills to operate the machinery.

And besides, if you need training to do that higher skilled job, you can demand higher wages for it AND save yourself from throwing your back out and being unable to do anything at all.

[bugandbibs]

Jokes on me- Costco was out of toilet paper 🤣

[Michelle]

Oct 4, 2024 16:54:49 GMT -5 bugandbibs said:

Jokes on me- Costco was out of toilet paper 🤣

Same here locally. I needed a pack so luckily i had just purchased some the day they announced the strike - curbside pickup FTW!

But i only purchased 1 pack. Not 75. And now i am sharing rolls with neighbors.

[elleblue]

Bidets for everyone! You'll never worry about tp again*.


*we do still buy it to help pat dry because the air drying feature isn't the best, but we use much less and in a pinch could absolutely go without.

[fernweh]

Oct 4, 2024 17:42:36 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Bidets for everyone! You'll never worry about tp again*.


*we do still buy it to help pat dry because the air drying feature isn't the best, but we use much less and in a pinch could absolutely go without.

Yes! We bought during the Covid tp shortage and we are converts. Now anytime I have to go somewhere without one I feel not as fresh and clean.

[arehopsveggies]

I’ve developed a tp allergy and can only use unbleached…. Which doesn’t exist in my tiny town. I might hoard tp forever. Thankfully my stash was enough that I didn’t have to try and get any during this particular toilet paper panic

[wawa]

Oct 4, 2024 16:12:40 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Oct 4, 2024 15:45:26 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

They settled on a 62% raise. 

The no automation thing is a head scratcher for me too. These jobs are repetitive and dangerous, some automation is not a bad thing (thinking decrease in wrongful death litigation, increase in efficiency). Sometimes unions shoot themselves in the foot by dismissing automation so someone w a clipboard can manually write down numbers and continue to earn an above average salary. This only feeds into the public's distain for them. 

Full disclosure, J is a union member, he's not crazy about it but he sees the benefits. The utility he works for uses some automation for efficiency reasons but they'll never go full automation. 

This is how I feel about it. Let's be pragmatic. Whether it is buying lifting equipment for patients so you don't need 4 PCAs to move someone or turn them, or some robotic equipment to move boxes around, automating the jobs that injure people and put them out of work is a net positive. Then learn how to operate those machines or so the higher-level skills to operate the machinery.

And besides, if you need training to do that higher skilled job, you can demand higher wages for it AND save yourself from throwing your back out and being unable to do anything at all.

you know we're talking about container ports here, right? If the port is automated its the CRANES that become automated, which are currently operated by a well paid, well trained human, operating buttons and joysticks, seated in a little box on the crane. (Well that and tracking, which is currently people standing around with clipboards making a decent wage...this might be the bigger issue for the union, but still...not exactly hard labor being averted).

[bugandbibs]

Oct 4, 2024 17:42:36 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Bidets for everyone! You'll never worry about tp again*.


*we do still buy it to help pat dry because the air drying feature isn't the best, but we use much less and in a pinch could absolutely go without.

We have bidets! That’s why I only buy toilet paper like once or twice a year and I actually needed it, lol.

[bugandbibs]

I might be wrong, but I think they were negotiating over the level of automation. Like they were against 100% automation in some jobs, but willing to have it be 70% automated. I like the idea of an actual human overseeing things if self driving cars are any indication. Especially with cranes and shipping containers being involved.

[basilosaurus]

Oct 4, 2024 17:42:36 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Bidets for everyone! You'll never worry about tp again*.


*we do still buy it to help pat dry because the air drying feature isn't the best, but we use much less and in a pinch could absolutely go without.

We don't have toto style bidets, but everywhere has a bum gun. Which means lots of poopy (I'm assuming) water spray, and a very wet bum. I'm not sure I'll ever be a convert to that style even if I liked the toto when I lived in Japan. We have to at least dry ourselves.

And, yes, I talked about bidet and tp instead of the issue at hand.

Isn't stevedore one of the most dangerous jobs in the world? Or is that old information I'm working from? 

[wawa]

Oct 8, 2024 10:00:50 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Oct 4, 2024 17:42:36 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Bidets for everyone! You'll never worry about tp again*.


*we do still buy it to help pat dry because the air drying feature isn't the best, but we use much less and in a pinch could absolutely go without.

We don't have toto style bidets, but everywhere has a bum gun. Which means lots of poopy (I'm assuming) water spray, and a very wet bum. I'm not sure I'll ever be a convert to that style even if I liked the toto when I lived in Japan. We have to at least dry ourselves.

And, yes, I talked about bidet and tp instead of the issue at hand.

Isn't stevedore one of the most dangerous jobs in the world? Or is that old information I'm working from? 

Might be but they're shipside. Longshoremen are landside. Which is also historically a risky job but modern ports have a lot less heave ho and a lot more buttons.

Ftr, I'm not opposed to automation, but it's not as easy as "why do you want back breaking labor" since container ports are lotsa crane work. People still get hurt when mistakes are made though and automation may help.

[Michelle]

Oct 6, 2024 11:08:36 GMT -5 wawa said:

Oct 4, 2024 16:12:40 GMT -5 Michelle said:

This is how I feel about it. Let's be pragmatic. Whether it is buying lifting equipment for patients so you don't need 4 PCAs to move someone or turn them, or some robotic equipment to move boxes around, automating the jobs that injure people and put them out of work is a net positive. Then learn how to operate those machines or so the higher-level skills to operate the machinery.

And besides, if you need training to do that higher skilled job, you can demand higher wages for it AND save yourself from throwing your back out and being unable to do anything at all.

you know we're talking about container ports here, right? If the port is automated its the CRANES that become automated, which are currently operated by a well paid, well trained human, operating buttons and joysticks, seated in a little box on the crane. (Well that and tracking, which is currently people standing around with clipboards making a decent wage...this might be the bigger issue for the union, but still...not exactly hard labor being averted).

i ventured into the broader conversation initiated by pinkdutchtulips about some unions shooting themselves in the foot - the broader general conversation about automation vs. not. 

Maybe your question was for her about "these jobs?"

[wawa]

Oct 10, 2024 13:12:17 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Oct 6, 2024 11:08:36 GMT -5 wawa said:

you know we're talking about container ports here, right? If the port is automated its the CRANES that become automated, which are currently operated by a well paid, well trained human, operating buttons and joysticks, seated in a little box on the crane. (Well that and tracking, which is currently people standing around with clipboards making a decent wage...this might be the bigger issue for the union, but still...not exactly hard labor being averted).

i ventured into the broader conversation initiated by pinkdutchtulips about some unions shooting themselves in the foot - the broader general conversation about automation vs. not. 

Maybe your question was for her about "these jobs?"

It was in response to the general theme of automation being good for workers not throwing their backs out. The really risky jobs at a port (attaching chains to containers) isnt the job that can be automated. Its cargo tracking and cranes that get automated. (At least thats my understanding. Not my area of expertise)

[Michelle]

Oct 10, 2024 13:42:51 GMT -5 wawa said:

Oct 10, 2024 13:12:17 GMT -5 Michelle said:

i ventured into the broader conversation initiated by pinkdutchtulips about some unions shooting themselves in the foot - the broader general conversation about automation vs. not. 

Maybe your question was for her about "these jobs?"

It was in response to the general theme of automation being good for workers not throwing their backs out. The really risky jobs at a port (attaching chains to containers) isnt the job that can be automated. Its cargo tracking and cranes that get automated. (At least thats my understanding. Not my area of expertise)

you could definitely invest in robotics to attach chains to containers. But again, I think your question was for pinkdutchtulips because my reply was about the general theme, which in my industry is definitely about jobs with repetitive tasks/injuries.