@Surgeon General: Parents Are at Their Wits’ End. We Can Do

[neverfstop]

Somewhat related to the other thread

A New York Times Opinion Essay by Dr. Vivek Murthy, U.S. Surgeon General, on the critical need to address parent and caregiver mental health & well-being.

GIFT www.nytimes.com/2024/08/28/opinion/surgeon-general-stress-parents.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Q04.zZSe.ik-TTnlU_xba&smid=url-share 

The advisory itself /https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/parents-under-pressure.pdf 

Covered on The daily podcst today too www.nytimes.com/2024/10/09/podcasts/the-daily/parenting-stress.html 

Many of the same things we've discussed before...helicopter parents -->  intensive parenting  --> social media pressures

This stood out.  Working  moms today are spending as much time today as SAHM did in the 70's (or 80s'?))

[neverfstop]

To keep this somewhat CE&P related, he did have some policy recommendations that I'd love to see.
www.hhs.gov/surgeongeneral/priorities/parents/index.html

These are for policymakers, but he does have guidance for works, communities, HHS people, researchers, etc.

• Promote and expand funding for programs that support parents and caregivers and their families.
• Establish a national paid family and medical leave program and ensure all workers have paid sick time.
• Invest in social infrastructure at the local level to bring parents and caregivers together.
• Address the economic and social barriers that contribute to the disproportionate impact of mental health conditions for certain parents and caregivers.
• Ensure parents and caregivers have access to comprehensive and affordable high-quality mental health care.
• Promote visitation initiatives and reentry programming to support currently and formerly incarcerated parents and caregivers, as well as their families.

[waverly]

I can see this play out with my friends overwhelmed, overparenting, mental health issues with the kids. 

They do all have sick leave. Where I work, we have had several programs bringing parents and other caregivers together in terms of small groups get togethers or something like preschool fairs. I see a lot of stress in that 0-Kindergarten age where there is a lot less structural support. The amount of support that public schools provide to parents cannot be overstated.

Conversations with other people in the community are not always supportive and seem to reflect the comments section or vice versa of social media.  I strive to look for supportive families, but even random strangers would come up to me and make odd comments when the kids are young.  I enjoy the freedom of society as a whole not caring about my kids anymore (middle school) as far as stranger comments go anyway.    

[Susie]

I've definitely felt this, but I wouldn't say social media is a big part of it.  For me it's the sheer logistics of the patchwork of care required for elementary age kids:  after school, early dismiss days, random school closures/holidays, school breaks, summer, holidays, inevitable illnesses, etc., and the absolute mad rush that ensues for all registrations because the demand outpaces available spots.  

The amount of time it takes to vet and analyze all the options, make all the decisions, and successfully register for it all, just so I can work, is wild.

ETA:  I am experiencing this piece now as a parent of K & 4th grade kids.  But the pandemic with pre-school aged kids (mine were 1 and 4 in 2020) was a whole 'nother level of this.  The depths of despair I experienced, and the impacts on my mental and physical health trying to work without childcare for months on end cannot be overstated.  

[pinkpeony08]

Mostly a lurker here, but this hits home for me. I work part time and my husband works full time. We are blessed that the cost of child care isn't a major source of stress, but my employer has definitely made being a working parent harder and harder. They have told me it is unacceptable for me to expect my work to flex to arrive 20 min late or leave 20 min early a handful of times a year when my husband can't do his usual daycare pick up or husband goes out of town. Management asking us to do more work in the same amount of time. The wellness newsletter that comes monthly to the whole organization via email has topics like "how to fit in quality family time on your drive home." It is really a broken system.

[Velar Fricative]

I listened this morning and I’ve been telling people I know how this school year is just a whole other ball game now that my older child started middle school. DH and I also recently started working at different locations than we had before (longer commutes for both of us), plus my younger kid is at the age now where she has interests and we of course want to make it fair compared to the older one. I’m one of those people who felt like I was winning at parenting because it felt easier than expected, but really it was just because my kids’ daycare experience was very streamlined (they always went to the same place, dropoff and pickup was the same, and they didn’t do outside activities), and even elementary school was easy because ours has robust morning and after care. We still managed well with outside activities. But middle school…the logistical planning is absolutely maddening and of course my kid wants to do all the things. She’s finally gaining confidence so we are letting her be more active in stuff, but man it’s tough.

So for me it’s less about pressure from other parents because I don’t pay attention to that. It’s pressure from myself as someone whose parents were too broke to pay for any activities when we were kids. I’m in far better financial shape than they were but the valuable resource of time is finite. I also think my anxiety levels are creeping up enough that I need to talk to a professional, so that doesn’t help.

All that to say, this was a very timely episode for me.

[noodleoo]

I need to read this and listen to the podcast. I'm sure it will confirm what I'm feeling. Parenting is *overwhelming* and there is very little support. When parents complain people tell us it is our fault. My first reaction to neverfstop 's post was yeah right. There will never be structural change. We can't even get paid family leave FFS and that's day 1.

ETA:  read the article, it was short, but yes to everything in it.  I think a big part of the problem is the breakdown of the social fabric in the US in favor of individualism.  There is no societal support for families anymore.  Everyone says "it takes a village" to raise kids but there is no village anymore. I live where I grew up, but my family all moved away so we have NO help.  Babysitters are too expensive to use more than a few times a year.  I remember when H had to have his colonoscopy and I had to drive him and we literally had no one I could think of to ask to pick my kids up from school and take care of them until we got back.  We had to move the appt.  And yes, parenting has changed but it is not easy to opt out of it for fear of your kid feeling left out/behind.  And don't get me started about childcare.  It was actually easier when they were in daycare because it was consistent year round with only a few holidays that coincided with federal holidays (of course, it cost more than our mortgage and we are lucky we could afford it).  Now that the kids are in elementary school, cobbling together care when you don't have local family is incredibly stressful and time consuming.  The only reason we make it work is we are lucky to WFH.  I don't know how other people do it.  The SG is right, I literally have no hobbies or time for activities outside of taking care of the family.

[Susie]

Another piece of it that I do not have a solution to, is the limitations on carpooling due to car seat safety.  When I was a kid, one of the mainstays of my parents making my sports schedule work was carpooling with other families.  The more the better!  One of my besties was one of 5 kids, and their fam had a conversion van.  The kids we piled in that thing!  

These days, I can't really carpool at all bc nobody can ride in the front seat, and I can't send my kids with someone who doesn't have an age/weight/height appropriate seat.  Likewise, my sedan has my two kids' HBBs in the back seats, with my younger one still harnessed, so I can't drive anyone who isn't the same age/stage as my free car seat.  If I have both of my kids, I don't even have a free seat.

That will free up soonish, as my kids age out of car seats, but I think it will take intentionality to break out of the mindset of car inflexibility.  Advancements in safety are great, and I fully avail myself of them, but we can also say out loud that it creates some challenges too.  It really reinforces that individual mindset:  *I* have to be the one to get my kid to soccer, to swimming, whatever, in *my* car because no hypothetical village member can just pickup and help me out with it.

[bugandbibs]

I'm so overwhelmed that even reading the posts in this thread are making me want to cry. I have more support than a lot of people, but I feel like I am drowning right now.

[pixy0stix]

The whole thing can be summarized by saying: We need to dismantle capitalism.

Yet none of that was said in the article.

[leahcar]

Starting with the pandemic and stretching into MH going back to work/becoming dual working parents has destroyed my mental health. It is SO HARD to do everything.

I feel so much guilt about everything- all the time. I am never giving anyone 100%, but I give myself the shortest end of the stick.

I see some light in that my teenagers are relatively self-sufficient and my 9 yo will get there. But it will be at least two years before life lets up a bit. That feels sooooo far away.

[fancynewbeesly]

Oct 9, 2024 15:35:22 GMT -5 Susie said:

Another piece of it that I do not have a solution to, is the limitations on carpooling due to car seat safety.  When I was a kid, one of the mainstays of my parents making my sports schedule work was carpooling with other families.  The more the better!  One of my besties was one of 5 kids, and their fam had a conversion van.  The kids we piled in that thing!  

These days, I can't really carpool at all bc nobody can ride in the front seat, and I can't send my kids with someone who doesn't have an age/weight/height appropriate seat.  Likewise, my sedan has my two kids' HBBs in the back seats, with my younger one still harnessed, so I can't drive anyone who isn't the same age/stage as my free car seat.  If I have both of my kids, I don't even have a free seat.

That will free up soonish, as my kids age out of car seats, but I think it will take intentionality to break out of the mindset of car inflexibility.  Advancements in safety are great, and I fully avail myself of them, but we can also say out loud that it creates some challenges too.  It really reinforces that individual mindset:  *I* have to be the one to get my kid to soccer, to swimming, whatever, in *my* car because no hypothetical village member can just pickup and help me out with it.

I have been saying this for years. Even if we have village not everyone can afford an extra car seat booster for another car. And when you have more than two car seats in a car it severely limits how many kids you can put in. Plus the hassle of installing it in the car.

[erbear]

Oct 9, 2024 18:08:37 GMT -5 leahcar said:

Starting with the pandemic and stretching into MH going back to work/becoming dual working parents has destroyed my mental health. It is SO HARD to do everything.

I feel so much guilt about everything- all the time. I am never giving anyone 100%, but I give myself the shortest end of the stick.

I see some light in that my teenagers are relatively self-sufficient and my 9 yo will get there. But it will be at least two years before life lets up a bit. That feels sooooo far away.

Interesting you should say this. I am finding high school so much harder than any age since baby.

[sent]

I haven’t read the article yet, my evening runaround isn’t over. I’m adding that we already have a 5 month paid maternity leave in NJ. We all pay into the state pot as employees and employers. While I am glad that my staff get to utilize this very generous benefit, it’s hard to swallow as a small business owner. It has been very stressful on the rest of us every time someone takes a leave. We have one coming up next year. This time we’re already trying to hire and be overstaffed so hopefully we can be prepared and not run ragged once the employee goes on her leave. It would honestly be better to have it on a national level because then all businesses would be forced to figure out how to adapt. I seriously don’t get how other states get away with 6 weeks of leave. Of course I can’t complain either with surviving staffing of 5 month leaves, Canadian colleagues always chime in with a “hold my beer, it’s 12 months here.”

[abs]

Oct 9, 2024 19:18:36 GMT -5 erbear said:

Oct 9, 2024 18:08:37 GMT -5 leahcar said:

Starting with the pandemic and stretching into MH going back to work/becoming dual working parents has destroyed my mental health. It is SO HARD to do everything.

I feel so much guilt about everything- all the time. I am never giving anyone 100%, but I give myself the shortest end of the stick.

I see some light in that my teenagers are relatively self-sufficient and my 9 yo will get there. But it will be at least two years before life lets up a bit. That feels sooooo far away.

Interesting you should say this. I am finding high school so much harder than any age since baby.

Me, too. I mean 8th grade but still. So much more reward but the stakes are a million times higher with zero grace given by anyone. I’m tired.

[hermione]

We are incredibly lucky in that both of our jobs are accommodating regarding our kid’s schedule. But as great as that is, it means we are handcuffed to these jobs. There have been no less than 5 jobs in the last year I wanted to apply for that would be a big step up in my career. But I can’t give up the flexibility I currently have.

[audette]

Oct 9, 2024 19:30:44 GMT -5 sent said:

I haven’t read the article yet, my evening runaround isn’t over. I’m adding that we already have a 5 month paid maternity leave in NJ. We all pay into the state pot as employees and employers. While I am glad that my staff get to utilize this very generous benefit, it’s hard to swallow as a small business owner. It has been very stressful on the rest of us every time someone takes a leave. We have one coming up next year. This time we’re already trying to hire and be overstaffed so hopefully we can be prepared and not run ragged once the employee goes on her leave. It would honestly be better to have it on a national level because then all businesses would be forced to figure out how to adapt. I seriously don’t get how other states get away with 6 weeks of leave. Of course I can’t complain either with surviving staffing of 5 month leaves, Canadian colleagues always chime in with a “hold my beer, it’s 12 months here.”

The Canadian companies also generally hire temporary staff to cover parental leave.  Sometimes those temporary folks stick around after, because typical attrition rates mean it's often easier to keep a temp that has shown they can do the work than to find someone new for a permanent position.

[sent]

Oct 9, 2024 19:36:51 GMT -5 abs said:

Oct 9, 2024 19:18:36 GMT -5 erbear said:

Interesting you should say this. I am finding high school so much harder than any age since baby.

Me, too. I mean 8th grade but still. So much more reward but the stakes are a million times higher with zero grace given by anyone. I’m tired.

Can you give an example of "zero grace given by anyone"? My older one is in 6th so I'm just trying to understand. 

[Saudade]

I am riding the struggle bus big time right now. I am a single parent to 3 kids, with just about zero involvement from their dad and currently no child support until he finishes grad school. I have significant help from my parents and I am lucky in that regard. But it doesn't change how much I am struggling. I get absolutely zero time for myself. My parents help me during the week on the days I don't get home earlier enough to pick the younger two up from aftercare. I feel guilty asking them to watch them on the weekend so I can do something for myself. It is also exacerbated by the fact that I have a long commute: 1 hour each way 3x/week and 90 min each way 2x/week. I absolutely love my job so much and it's great. They're very supportive. I have 6 weeks PTO and can generally take whenever. If I have to call in due to an illness, they are great about it. It doesn't change the fact that I have to work 40 hours + 12 hours of commuting.

My older two do swim club. They have daily practices 30 min away. It's been amazing for them, especially my middle with his ADHD. By the time we get home it's 8pm, already 30 min past the younger two's bedtime. Then they need to eat a snack and get ready for bed. By the time they're in bed it's 8:45. Zero time for homework. Yet they have to do homework. I have broken down probably at least 2x/week since school started because I can't do it all. I just can't. And yet it's not that much.

I am also incredibly resentful and bitter at my ex-H who is currently in grad school. The entire plan was that he was going to move closer once school was done so he could have 50/50 parenting. Last fall he started dating a new girl (ironically one of my old friends) and now the plans have changed and he is planning to stay back there (4.5 hours away) because "I deserve to be happy too". He currently sees the kids two weekends a month for a total of <48 hours each time. My very dim light at the end of a tunnel is that he will have to pay a large amount of child support once he is done. He doesn't know this yet.

Oh and I have zero friends. Which at this point I am kind of grateful for because I don't think I could add maintenance of that on my plate right now.

[noodleoo]

Oct 9, 2024 14:41:58 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

I need to read this and listen to the podcast. I'm sure it will confirm what I'm feeling. Parenting is *overwhelming* and there is very little support. When parents complain people tell us it is our fault. My first reaction to neverfstop 's post was yeah right. There will never be structural change. We can't even get paid family leave FFS and that's day 1.

As predicted, I stupidly sent the podcast to my sister and she sent me back a novel about not understanding what the point is, parenting hasn’t changed that much so why should society change to accommodate people who “overparent”, and basically parents should just “choose to parent less”. I should have known, her kids are older and she’s a perfect “lighthouse parent” (which everyone should do, yes she literally said that). Nevermind that she’s also extremely privileged and she can never see past her own individual experience.  WHICH IS PART OF THE PROBLEM ON A SOCIETAL LEVEL.

I don’t know why I ever try to talk to her. 

[wanderingback]

Yes capitalism. It would be much easier if things were different in this country (and other capitalistic societies). I dropped down to part time at my main clinical job which means I no longer qualified for health insurance and COBRA is costing a little over $3,000 a month for a family of 3. Things don’t have to be this way.

Unfortunately, I think our society is very individualistic in general and I don’t know how we as a society overcome that now that it is more essential than ever to have community support to survive and thrive.

Even on these boards people have mentioned "I don’t even want to know my neighbors" and similar thoughts that go against building a community.

Leaning on community has been critical in this phase of my life (recently a friend/neighbor with a kid watched our daughter for a bit until our babysitter could arrive and in the next week my cousin who has no kids is going to watch our daughter for a few hours). I have no shame or guilt to ask for help when we needed.

[pixy0stix]

Oct 9, 2024 21:31:24 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Even on these boards people have mentioned "I don’t even want to know my neighbors" and similar thoughts that go against building a community.

There was yet another thread on ML where people once again forcefully asserted that they don't answer their door if someone knocks. How do people think they're going to find a community if they can't do the bare bones to participate in said community?

[elleblue]

Oct 9, 2024 21:37:50 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oct 9, 2024 21:31:24 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Even on these boards people have mentioned "I don’t even want to know my neighbors" and similar thoughts that go against building a community.

There was yet another thread on ML where people once again forcefully asserted that they don't answer their door if someone knocks. How do people think they're going to find a community if they can't do the bare bones to participate in said community?

I totally thought of this board when I did not answer the door when the random woman carrying a foil covered paper plate rang my doorbell this evening. In my defense, I do know my nearby neighbors and she is not one of them. I have no idea why a stranger would be bringing me (presumably) homemade baked goods but of course now I'm curious because she didn't leave a note or anything. My H seems to think she might have been stopping by for the previous homeowners, but we moved here in August of 2022 so if she's friends they're clearly not very close. 😆

[aurora]

Oct 9, 2024 13:55:50 GMT -5 pinkpeony08 said:

Mostly a lurker here, but this hits home for me. I work part time and my husband works full time. We are blessed that the cost of child care isn't a major source of stress, but my employer has definitely made being a working parent harder and harder. They have told me it is unacceptable for me to expect my work to flex to arrive 20 min late or leave 20 min early a handful of times a year when my husband can't do his usual daycare pick up or husband goes out of town. Management asking us to do more work in the same amount of time. The wellness newsletter that comes monthly to the whole organization via email has topics like "how to fit in quality family time on your drive home." It is really a broken system.

Are you f-ing serious? I didn't actually mean to swear at you, just a system that could possibly think something like this is reasonable.

[krystee]

I feel like we can handle three things at any one time (like kids, work and our own interests), but not the six we need to handle (adding marriage, keeping the house in order, and cooking dinners).

So we eat too much takeout or super quick dinners like grilled cheese and microwaved steamed veggies,, we rarely go on dates or even hang out much after the kids are in bed because we are both introverts who need solo time, and the house is constantly cluttered. I’m sure there are probably actually like 10 things we need to handle and I’m failing at those extra four too.


I feel guilt, but not enough to run more ragged than we already do to try to get it all done.

[mrsukyankee]

sent, when you can take a year off, it's easier to hire for maternity cover. That's why it works well in other countries. You have people going from maternity cover to maternity cover as jobs - and you get all the benefits that come with those jobs as if it were a regular position (at least in the UK). Or you can be like me, do the maternity cover and then the person decides not to return and you keep the job.

[leahcar]

Oct 9, 2024 19:36:51 GMT -5 abs said:

Oct 9, 2024 19:18:36 GMT -5 erbear said:

Interesting you should say this. I am finding high school so much harder than any age since baby.

Me, too. I mean 8th grade but still. So much more reward but the stakes are a million times higher with zero grace given by anyone. I’m tired.

Two of mine are out of HS and the third one is a Junior. So I should have 2 independent adults in 2-3 years and one in college.

DD3’s driving may be the end of me so not at all taking away from all the “fun” that are teenagers. They ARE fun, but the stakes for everything feel so very high. We have big problems that I can’t always fix now.

My youngest is the most dramatic of my crew so I’m a little scared at what she’ll have in store for us. At least she’ll likely be the only one at home during that?

[abs]

Oct 9, 2024 21:08:55 GMT -5 sent said:

Oct 9, 2024 19:36:51 GMT -5 abs said:

Me, too. I mean 8th grade but still. So much more reward but the stakes are a million times higher with zero grace given by anyone. I’m tired.

Can you give an example of "zero grace given by anyone"? My older one is in 6th so I'm just trying to understand. 

It’s more just some decisions teens make stay with them forever. Toddler lack of impulse control is way different and looked at society by being cute. For teens it’s all documented and higher stakes. I find that very, very stressful. Nothing like having a teen to rattle your confidence!

I do find we have a bigger village with teens. The baby years were so, so lonely. So there is that. I do love this age, too. Just had no idea how hard it would be.

[fancynewbeesly]

I feel like I can do some things REALLY well....but not everything. Something just has to give.

However, we are lucky in some ways. DD1 is responsible and 13, so she can watch DD2 (who is 6) after school until I get home, so we don't need to pay for aftercare/childcare/babysitter for DD2.

Also I am a teacher, so my breaks somewhat align with my daughters. I do however teach in a different district, so some days we are scrambling to find care. But also-DD1 can now watch her sister all day long if I have to work. We don't try to rely on family often. My MIL lives about 15 minutes away, but has mental health issues that she refuses medication for (because it isn't an actual problem in her eyes) which means we use her as a very last case resort for childcare. My parents also live 15 minutes away, but they are in Florida for half the year. Or traveling. So they aren't reliable either.

We live near the middle and high school so DD1 starting in 6th grade just bikes to school-which is nice because we are never scrambling to find a ride if she stays after school for a club or a sport.

We do know and like all of our neighbors-many have elem. school kids, so in a pinch they have been able to watch DD2 after school if DD1 can't. I definitely feel like being a SAHM would be so much more beneficial to us in the the elementary school years than the infant years. Of course everyone's on my benefits so that wouldn't work.

[pinkpeony08]

Oct 9, 2024 22:38:46 GMT -5 aurora said:

Oct 9, 2024 13:55:50 GMT -5 pinkpeony08 said:

Mostly a lurker here, but this hits home for me. I work part time and my husband works full time. We are blessed that the cost of child care isn't a major source of stress, but my employer has definitely made being a working parent harder and harder. They have told me it is unacceptable for me to expect my work to flex to arrive 20 min late or leave 20 min early a handful of times a year when my husband can't do his usual daycare pick up or husband goes out of town. Management asking us to do more work in the same amount of time. The wellness newsletter that comes monthly to the whole organization via email has topics like "how to fit in quality family time on your drive home." It is really a broken system.

Are you f-ing serious? I didn't actually mean to swear at you, just a system that could possibly think something like this is reasonable.

It’s wild. And they offer wellness activities that I’m not allowed to block my template (I work in healthcare) to attend any of them. It’s so broken.

I listened to the podcast last night. It raised a lot of good points, but there is still so much more that makes parenting so stressful! We have a village per se more so for our older kids - easier to carpool as one is out of a booster and the other can use a compact travel booster. And they can stay home alone for a short time alone now. But it’s still so much more than reasonable.

The saying: work expects you to act like you don’t have a family and your family expects you to act like you don’t have another job - or the variation of it - is so true.