Idaho's Stupid Parental Consent Laws Have Consequences! @@

[wanderingback]

Oct 22, 2024 17:42:27 GMT -5 turkturkleton said:

Oct 22, 2024 8:24:15 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Ahh ok got it. Well then I don’t see how it’s a lawsuit that the doctor’s office followed the law, which is the law in my state as well. But if it was a medical emergency with the kid having an active allergic reaction on site then they should have an emergency kit with an epipen and given it and sent the kid to the ER. But again I can’t read the article It absolutely sounds like this law is bullshit, I was just saying that it is the norm in many other states that you can’t treat minors in non emergency situations for something like giving a rx for an epipen.

In my state we can see and treat for mental health, sexual health and substance use. Or if the child is emancipated, which does include pregnancy/being a parent.

It isn't a big part of the article, just this:

In one, a 17-year-old with a hornet allergy was stung but was unable to get a new EpiPen from his primary-care physician or urgent care because his parents were traveling; by the time he arrived at a hospital, he was in anaphylaxis.

So he knew he needed an EpiPen to prevent/halt a reaction, but they couldn't give him one without parental consent. It's basically a case of not allowing preventative medicine and instead waiting until something is an emergency to treat it, which is both awful in the short term and can cause much more damage in the long run (which you obviously know!). Without the law in place, he could have administered the EpiPen himself or had it done with his PCP and most likely avoided anaphylaxis altogether.

What I was saying/trying to figure out is if he went for a regular pcp visit without his parent and couldn’t get an epipen? Like he wasn’t having an allergic reaction. Because in my state that is also the law that a regular visit and treatment needs a parents consent. If the situation is deemed an emergency then in Idaho and in my state then parental consent isn’t needed.

I originally quoted the person saying a lawsuit might be coming trying to figure out if the kid showed up to a regular pcp visit because to me that wouldn’t seem like a lawsuit.

But yes, obviously I am very very aware of how confusing laws and a sue happy country make it really miserable to practice medicine in this country. It really is horrific.

[jlt19]

Oct 21, 2024 15:15:38 GMT -5 EvieEthelGarland said:

And at a youth resource center and shelter for abused and homeless teens in the town of Lewiston, Michelle Lewis’s employees screenshot every call and text they make in attempts to obtain parental consent for distributing tampons or talking with teens about setting goals.

Why TF are tampons considered medical?  What's next, no toilet paper or soap in restrooms? No Kleenex?  We already are at the no bandaids stage. 

I have a teen and while I want to know what is going on with him, I want him to be safe and healthy more. 

It’s because some people think using a tampon is taking a girls virginity.

The hormone treatments at school (lie) is timely as there are billboards on major hwys nearby saying to Vote No on 3*
or else kids could have gender SURGERY without parental knowledge. Our Governor and US Senator has repeated this absurdity.

*the amendment is to overturn the abortion ban in Missouri (nothing to do with gender whatsoever)

I’ve also seen one that says that abortions will be legal all 9 months and one saying that voting yes will allow abortions without doctors (like, what!?). It’s absolute nonsense and people will see these and believe it.

[wanderingback]

Oct 22, 2024 21:39:52 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

Oct 21, 2024 15:15:38 GMT -5 EvieEthelGarland said:

Why TF are tampons considered medical?  What's next, no toilet paper or soap in restrooms? No Kleenex?  We already are at the no bandaids stage. 

I have a teen and while I want to know what is going on with him, I want him to be safe and healthy more. 

It’s because some people think using a tampon is taking a girls virginity.

The hormone treatments at school (lie) is timely as there are billboards on major hwys nearby saying to Vote No on 3*
or else kids could have gender SURGERY without parental knowledge. Our Governor and US Senator has repeated this absurdity.

*the amendment is to overturn the abortion ban in Missouri (nothing to do with gender whatsoever)

I’ve also seen one that says that abortions will be legal all 9 months and one saying that voting yes will allow abortions without doctors (like, what!?). It’s absolute nonsense and people will see these and believe it.

Well to be fair 1) there are several states that have no gestational age limit on abortions thankfully and people have 3rd trimester abortions and 2) plenty of people self manage their abortions or have safe abortions with community support and without doctors! Abortion care should be accessible however people need it. So I actually agree with those 2 points that abortions should be available without limits and without doctors lol, but I’m sure that’s not exactly what those ads are going for!

[litebright]

I read that story earlier. Several parts got to me -- this girl was having contractions and they didn't know if she was in early labor because in order for the doctor, by law, to do the simplest and most basic exam, they had to figure out how to contact her legal guardian and get consent for treatment first. She came in with the aunt who gave her a home but didn't have legal guardianship; the girl's mother was homeless and living in a car with no way to contact her, and her legal guardian was her incarcerated grandmother who ended up giving verbal permission from jail. It was something like six hours before the doctor was able to proceed with basic medical care.

It seems to me like in most other situations, that could be considered malpractice. But it's an acceptable level of care, and even the law, for pregnant girls to have to endure that or worse.

Then, when the baby was born, the 13-year-old could give permission for her baby's medical treatment ... but could not consent to her own.

[basilosaurus]

Oct 23, 2024 0:03:38 GMT -5 litebright said:

I read that story earlier. Several parts got to me -- this girl was having contractions and they didn't know if she was in early labor because in order for the doctor, by law, to do the simplest and most basic exam, they had to figure out how to contact her legal guardian and get consent for treatment first. She came in with the aunt who gave her a home but didn't have legal guardianship; the girl's mother was homeless and living in a car with no way to contact her, and her legal guardian was her incarcerated grandmother who ended up giving verbal permission from jail. It was something like six hours before the doctor was able to proceed with basic medical care.

It seems to me like in most other situations, that could be considered malpractice. But it's an acceptable level of care, and even the law, for pregnant girls to have to endure that or worse.

Then, when the baby was born, the 13-year-old could give permission for her baby's medical treatment ... but could not consent to her own.

I've lived in some conservative states, and once a teen is pregnant they're considered medically emancipated. How this isn't universal is pretty shocking (and not at all surprising. Old enough to be forced into birth, not old enough to make other medical decisions). What I don't know is if those states then later revoked that emancipitation. Like, once you've had one kid you're not again allowed to decide on vaccines or birth control? Probably.

In these states is there some sort of waiver a parent can sign to say, yes, give my child medical care whenever and wherever? Obviously that wouldn't protect those most at risk, but is it even an option?

[basilosaurus]

I know this comes from a place of extreme privilege that I had this background.

I always knew I could get ibuprofen for a headache or cramps or period products at the nurse's office. We were lucky to have full time nurse, and I know that's not the case for many schools. I also had a full time guidance counselor, and I could always get a permission slip to see her, cry, whatever, and I felt safe.

I know some things got back to my dad, but not everything. I even went to the elementary principal's office on purpose to sit on her couch, hug a doll, and just cry. Just because I needed it. Every child needs that! And that was with a loving involved dad, local loving grandparents, financial stability. I still needed that!

I'm getting angrier about the entirety of this. When I knew I grew up with privilege, I didn't recognize the enormity of having access to trusted adults played a role in my life. I just thought it meant summer vacation. Even if they tattled to dad (shocker, a child who lost a parent when very young might have some crying jags), I had the safety net of school. I repeat. Every child needs that!

[wanderingback]

Oct 23, 2024 0:38:04 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Oct 23, 2024 0:03:38 GMT -5 litebright said:

I read that story earlier. Several parts got to me -- this girl was having contractions and they didn't know if she was in early labor because in order for the doctor, by law, to do the simplest and most basic exam, they had to figure out how to contact her legal guardian and get consent for treatment first. She came in with the aunt who gave her a home but didn't have legal guardianship; the girl's mother was homeless and living in a car with no way to contact her, and her legal guardian was her incarcerated grandmother who ended up giving verbal permission from jail. It was something like six hours before the doctor was able to proceed with basic medical care.

It seems to me like in most other situations, that could be considered malpractice. But it's an acceptable level of care, and even the law, for pregnant girls to have to endure that or worse.

Then, when the baby was born, the 13-year-old could give permission for her baby's medical treatment ... but could not consent to her own.

I've lived in some conservative states, and once a teen is pregnant they're considered medically emancipated. How this isn't universal is pretty shocking (and not at all surprising. Old enough to be forced into birth, not old enough to make other medical decisions). What I don't know is if those states then later revoked that emancipitation. Like, once you've had one kid you're not again allowed to decide on vaccines or birth control? Probably.

In these states is there some sort of waiver a parent can sign to say, yes, give my child medical care whenever and wherever? Obviously that wouldn't protect those most at risk, but is it even an option?

Yes, parents can give a universal consent. The ACLU is recommending parents do this. But of course most people don’t know about this and these laws just cause confusion for everyone.

[gemini79]

Oct 22, 2024 8:24:15 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Oct 22, 2024 3:54:06 GMT -5 sent said:

No, they couldn't contact the parents for 6 hours so they didn't allow it. Phone consent is allowed but they didn't have it in the boy's case which is what you were saying is the norm. I mistakenly thought phone contact was not allowed and that consent had to be in-person. 

Ahh ok got it. Well then I don’t see how it’s a lawsuit that the doctor’s office followed the law, which is the law in my state as well. But if it was a medical emergency with the kid having an active allergic reaction on site then they should have an emergency kit with an epipen and given it and sent the kid to the ER. But again I can’t read the article It absolutely sounds like this law is bullshit, I was just saying that it is the norm in many other states that you can’t treat minors in non emergency situations for something like giving a rx for an epipen.

In my state we can see and treat for mental health, sexual health and substance use. Or if the child is emancipated, which does include pregnancy/being a parent.

I live in Idaho and I am a mental health provider--This is exactly what the law says now. Previously, when children were 13, they had a right to privacy in their medical care and treatment, but now it's 18. 

[bugandbibs]

My school nurse heart is breaking over this thread. I work so closely with teens and our community partnerships and when these roadblocks come up it's so challenging to navigate. I am lucky to have only worked in states with laws that lean more to protecting autonomy, but it can be hard when office staff don't understand or go against the law for whatever reason.

In the case of the epi-pen, WA law would allow for the minor to consent for non-emergency care under the Mature Minor clause. Any minor who is considered homeless and not in the physical custody of their guardian would also be allowed to consent for their own care in circumstances that normally need a guardian's consent. As a school nurse, I can also give consent for care under the McKinney-Vento Act for minors covering the majority of health needs if they are not of capacity to make decisions.

[bugandbibs]

basilosaurus, I am really glad you had a safe place in your school. I work so hard to create that bond for my students and (selfishly) it's nice to know that it is remembered long after that relationship has ended.

[jlt19]

Oct 22, 2024 23:17:17 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Oct 22, 2024 21:39:52 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

It’s because some people think using a tampon is taking a girls virginity.

The hormone treatments at school (lie) is timely as there are billboards on major hwys nearby saying to Vote No on 3*
or else kids could have gender SURGERY without parental knowledge. Our Governor and US Senator has repeated this absurdity.

*the amendment is to overturn the abortion ban in Missouri (nothing to do with gender whatsoever)

I’ve also seen one that says that abortions will be legal all 9 months and one saying that voting yes will allow abortions without doctors (like, what!?). It’s absolute nonsense and people will see these and believe it.

Well to be fair 1) there are several states that have no gestational age limit on abortions thankfully and people have 3rd trimester abortions and 2) plenty of people self manage their abortions or have safe abortions with community support and without doctors! Abortion care should be accessible however people need it. So I actually agree with those 2 points that abortions should be available without limits and without doctors lol, but I’m sure that’s not exactly what those ads are going for!

Well, yes, I actually agree with you now that you’ve put it out there so intelligently. But I promise these billboards are not that 😉