Teacher cheating scandal @@@

[1yeartogo]

www.cnn.com/2024/11/03/us/houston-teacher-certification-scheme/index.html

This is so gross. I cant believe the extent of the cheating and that it allowed sexual predators access to children. Really messed up.

[tacokick]

I can’t imagine why someone would do this if they don’t have some awful reason to want to be around children. They are not difficult tests. You can take them like five times to pass and there are prep classes you can take/study guides. If you can’t pass them on your own, take a hint!

[whattheheck]

Nov 3, 2024 12:56:36 GMT -5 tacokick said:

I can’t imagine why someone would do this if they don’t have some awful reason to want to be around children. They are not difficult tests. You can take them like five times to pass and there are prep classes you can take/study guides. If you can’t pass them on your own, take a hint!

Not that I agree with what they did - but I could see someone who had racked up hundreds of thousands in student debt, had to student teach unpaid, and spent four or more years working towards this goal being willing to pay another $2,500 rather than walking away from it all with nothing.

[erbear]

Nov 3, 2024 12:56:36 GMT -5 tacokick said:

I can’t imagine why someone would do this if they don’t have some awful reason to want to be around children. They are not difficult tests. You can take them like five times to pass and there are prep classes you can take/study guides. If you can’t pass them on your own, take a hint!

You’d be shocked how many teachers can’t pass the basic skills test of the Praxis. I taught with a woman who took it six times — she couldn’t do it (tbf, she was an English teacher and she couldn’t pass the math but seriously…it is not a hard test). I don’t think it’s fair to say that everyone who does this is a sexual predator. Some people have taken the classes, gotten the job, and test taking isn’t their jam and they have no other way to make money if they can’t get certified.

[tacokick]

Nov 3, 2024 17:29:14 GMT -5 erbear said:

Nov 3, 2024 12:56:36 GMT -5 tacokick said:

I can’t imagine why someone would do this if they don’t have some awful reason to want to be around children. They are not difficult tests. You can take them like five times to pass and there are prep classes you can take/study guides. If you can’t pass them on your own, take a hint!

You’d be shocked how many teachers can’t pass the basic skills test of the Praxis. I taught with a woman who took it six times — she couldn’t do it (tbf, she was an English teacher and she couldn’t pass the math but seriously…it is not a hard test). I don’t think it’s fair to say that everyone who does this is a sexual predator. Some people have taken the classes, gotten the job, and test taking isn’t their jam and they have no other way to make money if they can’t get certified.

I didn’t say everyone who does this was a predator but if you can’t pass the test you really should take the hint and walk away, not cheat. That shows a real lack of character and sense.

When my husband and I taught we knew a couple of people who couldn’t pass but they were poor readers and not critical thinkers. They shouldn’t have made it into our MA program much less tried to teach children. But they just left teaching and found other (better paying lol) work not hire someone to impersonate them and take the test. That is a bizarre leap for anyone to make.

They have a degree and work experience. They should be able to find other paying work. If you want to teach, I’d hope it was because you want children to learn and have competent teachers. If you can’t pass the test, then you have to come to grips with the idea that it’s not the career for you. It’s unfortunate but there is something odd about to wanting to be in the classroom so badly you will pay to cheat.

[erbear]

Nov 3, 2024 18:08:46 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Nov 3, 2024 17:29:14 GMT -5 erbear said:

You’d be shocked how many teachers can’t pass the basic skills test of the Praxis. I taught with a woman who took it six times — she couldn’t do it (tbf, she was an English teacher and she couldn’t pass the math but seriously…it is not a hard test). I don’t think it’s fair to say that everyone who does this is a sexual predator. Some people have taken the classes, gotten the job, and test taking isn’t their jam and they have no other way to make money if they can’t get certified.

I didn’t say everyone who does this was a predator but if you can’t pass the test you really should take the hint and walk away, not cheat. That shows a real lack of character and sense.

When my husband and I taught we knew a couple of people who couldn’t pass but they were poor readers and not critical thinkers. They shouldn’t have made it into our MA program much less tried to teach children. But they just left teaching and found other (better paying lol) work not hire someone to impersonate them and take the test. That is a bizarre leap for anyone to make.

They have a degree and work experience. They should be able to find other paying work. If you want to teach, I’d hope it was because you want children to learn and have competent teachers. If you can’t pass the test, then you have to come to grips with the idea that it’s not the career for you. It’s unfortunate but there is something odd about to wanting to be in the classroom so badly you will pay to cheat.

You said “ can’t imagine why someone would do this if they don’t have some awful reason to want to be around children”. I’m saying I can see reasons — undiagnosed learning disability, test taking anxiety, subject area outside your own — that people can’t pass the test. It’s not a hard test and I think folks should be able to pass it, but it’s not just to get close to kids.

Agree that cheating shows a lack of character.

[tacokick]

Nov 3, 2024 18:34:05 GMT -5 erbear said:

Nov 3, 2024 18:08:46 GMT -5 tacokick said:

I didn’t say everyone who does this was a predator but if you can’t pass the test you really should take the hint and walk away, not cheat. That shows a real lack of character and sense.

When my husband and I taught we knew a couple of people who couldn’t pass but they were poor readers and not critical thinkers. They shouldn’t have made it into our MA program much less tried to teach children. But they just left teaching and found other (better paying lol) work not hire someone to impersonate them and take the test. That is a bizarre leap for anyone to make.

They have a degree and work experience. They should be able to find other paying work. If you want to teach, I’d hope it was because you want children to learn and have competent teachers. If you can’t pass the test, then you have to come to grips with the idea that it’s not the career for you. It’s unfortunate but there is something odd about to wanting to be in the classroom so badly you will pay to cheat.

You said “ can’t imagine why someone would do this if they don’t have some awful reason to want to be around children”. I’m saying I can see reasons — undiagnosed learning disability, test taking anxiety, subject area outside your own — that people can’t pass the test. It’s not a hard test and I think folks should be able to pass it, but it’s not just to get close to kids.

Agree that cheating shows a lack of character.

But any reason you’d have is not for the benefit of the children, it’s to fulfill your own desire to be in the school system.

Refusing to accept reality and lying and cheating to keep teaching is very strange behavior. I can understand why a predator would want to but an ordinary person can take those skills and work somewhere else even in a field that education adjacent/with the public/children and not have this requirement. Why not do that? Why instead lie and cheat to stay in the school?

Honestly, if someone can’t learn enough basic math or whatever to pass or can’t handle test taking (you can do it with accommodations!) then I don’t think they are equipped to notice or handle a learning disability in children, teach them how to take a test or help struggling students. It’s not a difficult, highly technical test. It’s basically on the level of the students you’d be teaching.

[pixy0stix]

If this happened in any other profession we wouldn't be offering excuses as to why people would do this.

This is a damn shame.

[tacokick]

Nov 3, 2024 16:01:18 GMT -5 whattheheck said:

Nov 3, 2024 12:56:36 GMT -5 tacokick said:

I can’t imagine why someone would do this if they don’t have some awful reason to want to be around children. They are not difficult tests. You can take them like five times to pass and there are prep classes you can take/study guides. If you can’t pass them on your own, take a hint!

Not that I agree with what they did - but I could see someone who had racked up hundreds of thousands in student debt, had to student teach unpaid, and spent four or more years working towards this goal being willing to pay another $2,500 rather than walking away from it all with nothing.

But that’s what happens to pretty much anyone who did an internship, graduates and doesn’t get hired by the company. It’s unfortunate but it happens. You find another job. You don’t hire an imposter and defraud the company.

They still have a degree and work experience. Teaching isn’t the only job in the world. Most of them even have zero certification requirements.

[Jalapeñomel]

I can’t imagine wanting to be a teacher so bad in this day and age that you’d resort to cheating.

[erbear]

Nov 3, 2024 19:48:21 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

I can’t imagine wanting to be a teacher so bad in this day and age that you’d resort to cheating.

Also this. Cheating on a test so you can be shit on all day long by the general public? Sounds amazing.

[Saudade]

I know nothing about the licensing test for teachers.

However for nursing we have a national licensing test (NCLEX). It’s the most ridiculous test. I know so many people who have failed the first time and some who have taken many tries to pass. I truly don’t think their inability to pass the test has much bearing on their ability to be a good nurse.

The test is CAT, but includes not just multiple choice but choose all that apply, hot spots, ranking and maybe some others types (it’s been a while since I took it and gets updated every so often). Most questions have 4 correct answers. You just have to pick the *most* correct answer.

You have a minimum of 75 questions but can end up having up to 145 questions. Due to CAT, the exam shuts off when you either have enough correct to pass or cannot get enough with the remaining questions to pass. This can lead to significant anxiety on top of regular test anxiety.

[sonrisa]

Nov 3, 2024 19:18:23 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

If this happened in any other profession we wouldn't be offering excuses as to why people would do this.

This is a damn shame.

sure.

But we wouldn’t be jumping to ‘must be an sexual predator’ either. It’s not like sexual predators are less capable of passing standardized tests. There are doctors and lawyers who abuse their position to exploit or victimize clients. But when someone cheats on the bar or their boards, we don’t immediately assume they are a predator - just a person who cheats.

[mofongo]

We also have a licensing test, two actually. One when you graduate and then another after you've done your supervision requirements to become an LCSW. I haven't heard of any cheating, it would def have to be another social worker bc it's a pretty specific test.

[1yeartogo]

Nov 4, 2024 0:01:12 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Nov 3, 2024 19:18:23 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

If this happened in any other profession we wouldn't be offering excuses as to why people would do this.

This is a damn shame.

sure.

But we wouldn’t be jumping to ‘must be an excuse predator’ either. It’s not like sexual predators are less capable of passing standardized tests. There are doctors and lawyers who abuse their position to exploit or victimize clients. But when someone cheats on the bar or their boards, we don’t immediately assume they are a predator - just a person who cheats.

The reason I brought up predators in the first place with my response when I linked the article is that it mentioned in the article at least 2 of the people who did it were convicted sexual offenders.

I think everyone who participated in this made a gross error of judgment and has no business teaching, but the fact that the ringleaders of this allowed and encouraged people who should never been allowed contact with children to teach and be in a position of power over them is absolutely egregious.

[sonrisa]

Nov 4, 2024 8:01:53 GMT -5 1yeartogo said:

Nov 4, 2024 0:01:12 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

sure.

But we wouldn’t be jumping to ‘must be an excuse predator’ either. It’s not like sexual predators are less capable of passing standardized tests. There are doctors and lawyers who abuse their position to exploit or victimize clients. But when someone cheats on the bar or their boards, we don’t immediately assume they are a predator - just a person who cheats.

The reason I brought up predators in the first place with my response when I linked the article is that it mentioned in the article at least 2 of the people who did it were convicted sexual offenders.

I think everyone who participated in this made a gross error of judgment and has no business teaching, but the fact that the ringleaders of this allowed and encouraged people who should never been allowed contact with children to teach and be in a position of power over them is absolutely egregious.

Doesn’t TX have a separate teacher screening process to identify and screen predators? I know CA does. That system, whatever it was, failed. Perhaps there was bribery or cheating there as well. Perhaps it’s unrelated.
However, it needs scrutiny beyond whatever inquiry unearthed this cheating.

[tacokick]

Nov 4, 2024 9:25:38 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Nov 4, 2024 8:01:53 GMT -5 1yeartogo said:

The reason I brought up predators in the first place with my response when I linked the article is that it mentioned in the article at least 2 of the people who did it were convicted sexual offenders.

I think everyone who participated in this made a gross error of judgment and has no business teaching, but the fact that the ringleaders of this allowed and encouraged people who should never been allowed contact with children to teach and be in a position of power over them is absolutely egregious.

Doesn’t TX have a separate teacher screening process to identify and screen predators? I know CA does. That system, whatever it was, failed. Perhaps there was bribery or cheating there as well. Perhaps it’s unrelated.
However, it needs scrutiny beyond whatever inquiry unearthed this cheating.

The linked article truncated some of the quotes but other articles are more detailed

“On Monday, Ogg also said that among the hundreds of people who allegedly paid to fraudulently become a certified teacher, at least two were sexual predators, “who, once falsely certified, had access through their employment to underage kids on campus and off”.


One had been charged with indecency with a child, and another with online solicitation, Ogg said, adding: “It was the access through the certification that was false that allowed them to commit the crimes.””


amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/30/texas-scheme-teachers-cheating-scandal

[sonrisa]

Thank you. I only read the linked article. 

[raleighnc]

Nov 4, 2024 8:01:53 GMT -5 1yeartogo said:

Nov 4, 2024 0:01:12 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

sure.

But we wouldn’t be jumping to ‘must be an excuse predator’ either. It’s not like sexual predators are less capable of passing standardized tests. There are doctors and lawyers who abuse their position to exploit or victimize clients. But when someone cheats on the bar or their boards, we don’t immediately assume they are a predator - just a person who cheats.

The reason I brought up predators in the first place with my response when I linked the article is that it mentioned in the article at least 2 of the people who did it were convicted sexual offenders.

I think everyone who participated in this made a gross error of judgment and has no business teaching, but the fact that the ringleaders of this allowed and encouraged people who should never been allowed contact with children to teach and be in a position of power over them is absolutely egregious.

That quote about the convicted offenders is an extraneous piece of information thrown in by the DA (probably because it's more attention-grabbing than a story about people cheating on tests and the DA might want to run for office in the future - she lost the primary in the spring). I think anyone can take the PRAXIS, so I'm sure there have been convicted offenders who have passed it on their own as well as in the pool of cheaters. They still have to pass a fingerprint-based background check before employment. The people running this scam are terrible, but the DA's quote was there for shock value.