Soul-Searching, Recriminations Within Democratic Party

[laladypoet]

Nov 7, 2024 11:40:26 GMT -5 tamarindy said:

Nov 7, 2024 11:35:44 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

Kamala was a much better candidate and ran a much better campaign than Hillary. Still, less people showed up for her.

Trump only lost once, to a man.

connect the dots.

Fewer people. Fewer people showed up. Hope Dems can figure out why one day.

ok stannis.

[emilyj]

Nov 7, 2024 8:37:50 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

Nov 7, 2024 8:32:56 GMT -5 themoneytree said:

YES.

@@ Someone told me Southern Republicans raise their children to HATE Democrats. I hadn’t realized that before and I feel like with MAGA and Christian Nationalism that has spread. Voting Dem to them is literally one of the worst things you can do, the biggest sin. That is what we are up against.

I know this thread has moved on, but I want to circle back to this because it's an important point.

Think back to 2017 when Doug Jones went up against Roy Moore in the special senate seat election in Alabama. Roy Moore, the pedophile. I used to live in Alabama. My in-laws live there. The amount of people in the state who voted for Roy Moore because "NEVER DEMOCRAT" was mind-blowing. There were also people who voted for Doug Jones who loudly proclaimed "Just this once." Because voting for a democrat was a horrible thing. My own MIL stated she admired Roy Moore because "He stuck to his principles." WTF, woman? (And yes, we let her have it for that.) 

The part of the state my in-laws are in is beyond conservative. In churches they preach about the democrats ruining society. About the liberals who are poisoning the minds of the children and taking them away from the Godly values. People like my H and I who are college-educated are looked down upon because by getting an education, we must be 'one of THOSE.' 

This is my experience with a couple of places in the state of Alabama. Which is a hell of a lot bigger than the areas I lived in. That mindset permeates beyond Alabama. How do you reach such a huge group of people who distrust anything without an R next to their name? How do you reach a group of people who have been conditioned since birth to hate and distrust anyone outside their community? It blew my mind for so many years that so many people could continuously vote against their own self interests...but to live in it, and to see it in action...man. It is a huge hurdle to overcome, and the Dems have utterly failed at it. 

[missva]

I live in a red state and the primary messaging I'm seeing from Trump supporters is that they distrust the media and celebrity endorsement hurt because they are also part of the establishment pushing leftist ideas. There's a ton of distrust in mainstream media and so methods of messaging has to change.

[Velar Fricative]

Nov 7, 2024 11:43:57 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Nov 7, 2024 11:41:58 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I’m still behind but why do you believe they didn’t reach across the aisle? Every demographic shift towards them is a reflection of them reaching across the aisle. Obviously, we are grossed out by how they did it (like by appealing to the feeling of machismo), but instead of giving up on demographic groups to the Ds like we expected they’d do after the Obama years, they hustled. And they were rewarded. We may be grossed out by their tactics and don’t have to replicate them, but we certainly need to play the long game they’ve been so good at doing.

You think the GOP reached out to the Democrats? I haven’t seen that at all. (Excluding, of course, the support the Harris campaign got, they haven’t done anything collaborative from a policy perspective.)

NYC as a whole turned redder. I have indeed observed the GOP outreach here. They didn’t talk about their hatred, they talked about money and jobs. Did they lie that R policies would work? Yes. But they were the ones talking about this stuff more than local Ds.

Though, what remains to be seen is whether this is more of an indictment on sketchy Eric Adams, whose primary is coming up in June so we’ll know soon enough. But we all know many voters don’t care about the different levels of government, Adams is a D and so is Harris and so they’re in cahoots with each other. But, the shift happened nearly everywhere else so it might not be about Adams. We’ll see.

[pisces]

Nov 7, 2024 11:42:42 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

Nov 7, 2024 11:31:19 GMT -5 pisces said:

Dems needs to get their shit together. We haven't lost the popular vote in the last 2 presidential elections and did this time. Why? It's not because of the people running. It's because of policies and messaging. So, there's work to be done. Calling people names and writing them off further alienates people and makes this country worse.

And what policies need amending, exactly?

Somebody who thinks it's okay to make a fun of the disabled or let me bleed out in a parking lot NEEDS to be alienated and told they're a piece of shit.

That might not win elections but it sure as hell doesn't make this country worse. Mocking the disabled and letting women bleed out in parking lots makes this country worse!

2 that come to mind are border reform and taxing long-term capital gains. I'm sure there are others that could be amended to appeal to more people.

To be clear, I am not talking about changing policies around reproductive health or LGBQT+.

[emilyj]

Some of you know me IRL. I'm a research professor, and my overarching area of study is media psychology.

I will bang on this drum until the cows come home - we are failing in teaching our students/children how to be media literate consumers. I saw the post about how Gen Z consumes all their media in podcasts. They don't consume news and media the same way earlier generations did. But they also have no critical thinking ability to discern where that media is coming from, who is doing the talking, and if the information being presented is credible.

I am already planning to revamp my senior seminar next semester to focus on being media literate and being able to critically consume media. After watching so many of them say "Well, I saw on TikTok..." NO.

I am MORE than happy to share my teaching resources, or anything I use on talking through media literacy with people if anyone wants them. Tag me here, reach out to me on socials if we are friends. Especially as media gets more and more fractured, and falls under more and more control of the rich, we NEED this skill. Desperately.

[meganew]

Nov 7, 2024 11:54:33 GMT -5 emilyj said:

Some of you know me IRL. I'm a research professor, and my overarching area of study is media psychology.

I will bang on this drum until the cows come home - we are failing in teaching our students/children how to be media literate consumers. I saw the post about how Gen Z consumes all their media in podcasts. They don't consume news and media the same way earlier generations did. But they also have no critical thinking ability to discern where that media is coming from, who is doing the talking, and if the information being presented is credible.

I am already planning to revamp my senior seminar next semester to focus on being media literate and being able to critically consume media. After watching so many of them say "Well, I saw on TikTok..." NO.

I am MORE than happy to share my teaching resources, or anything I use on talking through media literacy with people if anyone wants them. Tag me here, reach out to me on socials if we are friends. Especially as media gets more and more fractured, and falls under more and more control of the rich, we NEED this skill. Desperately.

100,000% THIS

Not only is media literacy a huge issue for voters of all ages, but literacy in general is going to be a huge issue moving forward. We need to get better about making our points without assuming that our base is going to know or care about the difference between racism and bigotry, or tariffs and stock market changes. We need concrete ways to make their lives better and a SIMPLE message for how we can do that.

[mrsslocombe]

There's a huge part of me that thinks none of this matters. By 2028, if we have something approaching a free and fair election, people are going to be so much worse off.

Grocery store prices are high now-they are going to sky rocket with mass deportations when there's not enough workers to pick our produce, work in meat plants, etc.

If/when they repeal the ACA-millions will lose health insurance.

If/when they gut the federal government-millions will lose access to things like assistance for special needs kids, college loans, food stamps, and the jobs that are funded by government grants.

If/when we see more abortion bans-there will be more women dying while pregnant.

And if they actually do cut Medicare and Social Security, that will have a profound impact on people's lives.


So the main task will be making sure everyone knows who to blame for those things. And I think the next democratic presidential nominee will need to be someone outside the establishment.

[meganew]

Nov 7, 2024 11:47:45 GMT -5 missva said:

I live in a red state and the primary messaging I'm seeing from Trump supporters is that they distrust the media and celebrity endorsement hurt because they are also part of the establishment pushing leftist ideas. There's a ton of distrust in mainstream media and so methods of messaging has to change.

And these are the people that I don’t think we’re going to win back with campaigning. Anything we say is going to deemed a lie, too woke, leftist, whatever. The only way these voters are coming back is if we energize our base and non-voters enough to win, and then actually enact some policies that affect them in a meaningful way, then clearly message to them- this was us! Democrats did this! Leaning more to the right isn’t going to get any of that done.

[tiki]

Regarding policies, I nearly convinced my mom to switch her vote when Harris proposed expanding Medicare to cover in-home senior care. It came very late (Oct) in the election cycle and my mom would never have heard of it if I hadn't told her, but it could be an example of a policy with economic appeal to a segment of traditionally R voters.

[sonrisa]

Nov 7, 2024 12:07:25 GMT -5 mrsslocombe said:

So the main task will be making sure everyone knows who to blame for those things.]

honestly, I think our main task isn’t this handwringing or political soul searching. It’s helping each other survive. If you came out of Tuesday only thinking about the next election andnot the four years of hell we are going into, take a step back and recalibrate.

(I say in the thread about political soul searching).

[smock]

As an elder millennial, my entire political life has been dominated by Republican administrations fucking things up and Democratic administrations picking up the pieces. Republicans tearing things down and Democrats slowly trying to repair them.

Democrats have been the adults in the room trying to keep the train on the tracks. But so many Americans hate the tracks, hate the train, and are rooting for a train wreck. Can Democrats win elections if it looks like our party is defending the system and the status quo? I don't know.

[ellipses84]

There are 104 million eligible voters who didn’t vote. We know that if Democratic turnout is high we win. We know what demographics vote for us reliably and which ones we might be able to move the needle on. I don’t think we should waste our time fighting about Republicans when he got less votes than 2020. That base did shrink a little. We need to spend our time mobilizing against voter suppression to get people engaged and educated so they make the effort to vote in their best interest. We need grass roots efforts in more states. We need to work on the @ next generation of 18 year olds so they are not mysogynistic assholes or voting against their own rights.

[somersault72]

Nov 7, 2024 7:49:52 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

A reminder that Biden has terrible approval ratings and that dems have won 3 of the last 5 elections. I don’t know that we need to throw out the baby with the bath water.

While racism and sexism are alive and well (and always will be), Kamala was intrinsically tied to the unpopular administration.

Everything isn’t broken, but I do think people are more exhausted and selfish since Covid. The Dem messaging hasn’t adjusted to that, IMO.

I agree with this, and the #1 thing MAGATs cared about is their fucking grocery prices. Even though the president doesn't control inflation (or corporate greed apparently), they ALL blamed Biden for how expensive everything is, and ergo Kamala because she is the VP. "She's had 3 years to fix this...." I have seen it time and time again. MAGATs care about MAGATs. Covid proved time and again that our society is a selfish one as a whole. And that's how they voted. (Don't get me wrong, I don't think these people are going to benefit from a Trump presidency--but THEY think they will).

And I for one am going to be there being the fucking price police when prices don't drop come January. Because I'm petty AF now.


Sadly as someone said, we can't elect a female president. Not any time soon, anyway. Kamala is amazing. Her campaign was damn near perfect. I hadn't been this excited since Obama. I bawled through her concession speech because she's such a fucking class ass. But one thing that I can't get out of my head is how many people said she's unqualified. The crusty dusty orange man had NO political experience in 2016 (I'd argue he still doesn't) and his followers thought that was greeeeeaaaat. "He's a (terrible) businessman!" But the current VP isn't qualified???!!  What they mean is "she doesn't have a Y chromosome, therefore she's unqualified." We as women are held to a different standard.

And the last thing I have to say (sorry for all my rambles but I am just an angry, angry woman) is that orange fucker better live until January 2029. Because while he's a megalomaniac who only cares about himself, Vance genuinely thinks women are beneath him. And if he takes over just bust out your red gowns and white bonnets ala Handmaid's Tale.

[Patsy Baloney]

I also wonder how much our American culture’s general adulation and idolatry of wealth, the wealthy, consumption, over-consumption, etc., plays into our votes. And this is not a matter of, “Can I afford groceries?” but more the “American Dream.” One day, we might all be millionaires if only we work hard and have a little luck. I am just assuming this is a part of every generation, whether we acknowledge it or not. Are we ever going to be able to turn our backs on the oligarchy, when we’re dreaming of being an oligarch? When all of my media consumption tells me I need 25 metal cups to complete my rainbow, it’s hard for me to consider wealth redistribution policies as something I want to back, even though it benefits me. I may never hear that message, because it doesn’t make me feel good about me (what do you mean I’m not middle class?) or speak to that “dream”.

Let’s be real - none of us can afford to lead the country. But maybe if we work hard…

We have talked a lot about people appearing to vote against their own interests in this thread. How do we market to people who are ready to do a little dance with totalitarianism/fascism to get cheaper eggs, even though there’s not really a plan to get cheaper eggs, it just sort of sounded good to the voter at the time?

I think one of the big lessons we can take away from this thread is understanding people vote the way they vote for certain reasons, and it seems like it’s going to be a huge move for the left to stop painting groups as monolith. I can recall HRC and Biden having issues in their campaigns by painting latin/hispanic groups as one.

Anyway, still just staring at the blank space on my wall trying to figure it all out.

[sugarbear1]

emilyj, I would love to see some of your resources; thank you for offering. I teach 8th grade, but my definitely need to revamp my media literacy unit.

[karinothing]

Nov 7, 2024 12:07:25 GMT -5 mrsslocombe said:

There's a huge part of me that thinks none of this matters. By 2028, if we have something approaching a free and fair election, people are going to be so much worse off.

Grocery store prices are high now-they are going to sky rocket with mass deportations when there's not enough workers to pick our produce, work in meat plants, etc.

If/when they repeal the ACA-millions will lose health insurance.

If/when they gut the federal government-millions will lose access to things like assistance for special needs kids, college loans, food stamps, and the jobs that are funded by government grants.

If/when we see more abortion bans-there will be more women dying while pregnant.

And if they actually do cut Medicare and Social Security, that will have a profound impact on people's lives.


So the main task will be making sure everyone knows who to blame for those things. And I think the next democratic presidential nominee will need to be someone outside the establishment.

I agree with all of this BUT also I never get why anyone thinks prices of food will suddenly get cheaper. If I can sell you something now for $10 when I previously sold it for $5 and you are still buying it I am never going back to $5. 

[lilac05]

Nov 7, 2024 12:40:27 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

There are 104 million eligible voters who didn’t vote. We know that if Democratic turnout is high we win. We know what demographics vote for us reliably and which ones we might be able to move the needle on. I don’t think we should waste our time fighting about Republicans when he got less votes than 2020. That base did shrink a little. We need to spend our time mobilizing against voter suppression to get people engaged and educated so they make the effort to vote in their best interest. We need grass roots efforts in more states. We need to work on the @ next generation of 18 year olds so they are not mysogynistic assholes or voting against their own rights.

I think this is a really great point. One fairly easily actionable point we could address without even touching any policies is make it EASIER to vote. People standing HOURS in line should NOT be a thing. Ever. People are really busy, and we live in a RIGHT NOW society. Many, many people don’t have that much extra time to take to stand in line to wait for something…especially if they don’t really believe it’ll directly impact them. They don’t care that much.

We’re going to have a hard time making people care more, so we need to make the demand on them less. What can we learn from states where long lines aren’t really a thing? How do we make that happen everywhere? How do we make voting easier while still educating people about how that can be done securely?

Another non-policy thing that needs to be addressed: Campaign Finance Reform. Now. This is something I think we could even get bipartisan grassroots movement going on. The politicians love all of the money, but the voters do not. $2.4 BILLION was spent on this presidential election while people can’t buy groceries.

[erbear]

Nov 7, 2024 11:54:33 GMT -5 emilyj said:

Some of you know me IRL. I'm a research professor, and my overarching area of study is media psychology.

I will bang on this drum until the cows come home - we are failing in teaching our students/children how to be media literate consumers. I saw the post about how Gen Z consumes all their media in podcasts. They don't consume news and media the same way earlier generations did. But they also have no critical thinking ability to discern where that media is coming from, who is doing the talking, and if the information being presented is credible.

I am already planning to revamp my senior seminar next semester to focus on being media literate and being able to critically consume media. After watching so many of them say "Well, I saw on TikTok..." NO.

I am MORE than happy to share my teaching resources, or anything I use on talking through media literacy with people if anyone wants them. Tag me here, reach out to me on socials if we are friends. Especially as media gets more and more fractured, and falls under more and more control of the rich, we NEED this skill. Desperately.

@@
I teach 8th grade and HOLY SHIT do I see this more and more. I also try to teach media literacy but it gets lost in the shuffle of everything else. I'd love to see your resources!

[dontlook]

Nov 7, 2024 10:41:04 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

Nov 7, 2024 10:38:37 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

Why am I* supposed to give a FUCK about fragile white men being scared of losing the top of their patriarchal pyramid, when I am scared of losing my life?!

* gay, trans, woman, minority

And to the wider point that it was not just white men who did this, it is indeed them who made other demographics "scared".

JFC THANK YOU.

anyone who thinks it's up to us to care about Trump voters has brain worms. and some of y'all are new and I'm side-eyeing yall

A lot of us aren’t new. I mostly lurk and occasionally post on ML. I’m here engaging now because I felt I could lend a slightly different voice.

Look, I’m a black educated woman. Of course I wanted Kamala to win. *We* showed up like we always do so ::shrug:: But now I’m looking around and millions upon millions of motherfuckers didn’t agree. Self-reflection is only natural.

To be clear- I don’t think the dem party needs some major overhaul. I do think we need to reach out to more people. Not just Trump voter because not all the people who voted for him are really in for Trump, they wanted what he was selling. We couldn’t even get our own people off the couch. That deserves some reflection. We aren’t selling our vision to enough people and that deserves some reflection.

2016 me was very much fuck all of them. 2024 me wants to find a dem candidate that can sell a better vision because we need to convince some of those people to tap into their humanity and make a different choice next time and/or rally the party.

[glw]

It's clear to me that the only thing that drives voters is their own money and feelings about "the economy" (even if they don't really know what that means). I think Dems need to be relentless about how R policies don't actually improve the average person's financial situation, and have very clear talking points about what D policies can/will do. I don't even care if we lie about it. R's lie constantly and blame Biden for things a president has zero control over. So from here on out: every single thing involving inflation, consumer pricing, insurance premiums, you name it, is Trump's fault-- shout it.

[mcppalmbeach]

Nov 7, 2024 11:15:41 GMT -5 cville said:

Nov 7, 2024 10:57:38 GMT -5 meganew said:

They didn’t try that this time! They tried to appeal to republican voters- look, the Cheneys are voting for us! Look, we’re all for fracking! Look, we won’t speak out about Palestine! It didn’t work! They don’t care. They’re voting R and we need to stop pretending they’ll do anything but that.

And it didn't work because people were fear-mongered, don't understand economic policy, and want someone to blame for increased costs in consumer goods and staples.

I'm lucky. I never have to make a Sophie's choice about anything my family needs. Hell, about anything my family WANTS. Canvassing was eye opening. I canvassed in my county, and the people I was talking to who live 3 miles from my house had very very different concerns. They don't care about fascism because it's abstract, but the fact that there's 3 and 4 generations living in a 2 bedroom because rent is too expensive and social security/medicare won't cover a decent nursing home for grandma is very very concrete. Some of them came out anyway for Kamala. Some voted for that asshole because he told them it was Kamala's fault and used small words and repeated it so often it felt like truth. Most just stayed home because they voted for Biden and things didn't get better, but they think the asshole is an asshole.

I don't know if I think in 100 days not hanging out with Liz Cheney would've made much of a difference, to tell you the truth. We'd lost the war for those low propensity and youth votes before the first battle even began. The rightward shift was near universal across the country in low and middle income brackets--that's not because people were unconcerned about foreign policy or J6. It's because they don't care.

The Liz Cheney of it all was an effort to find alternative voters, IMO. And it worked in some areas. My precinct went 87% for Hillary, 88% for Biden, and 91% for Kamala. It just didn't work where it mattered most.

I think Kamala’s campaign was smart and well run and I love this board, smartest women I have been in a “room” with. But I live in a red as hell area. I feel some concerns here when I see posters touting “I don’t know how anyone lives in a red area” or “I have no red acquaintances” because what that tells me is that you probably are not around the working class people who really are the majority of people voting. For me, where the campaign went wrong was that we didn’t listen or more likely we didn’t give the right answers when people told us the economy was a major problem. Now did the campaign convince me Kamala would serve me better the alternative. Yes it did.
So what that message needed to be…you got me. A lot of people voting in this election did not care about our rights and that’s not to say they actively wanted them taken away (though there were plenty of those deplorables too of course) they literally just did not care enough to vote against what they thought would be in their best interest to make it happen. It’s hard to think high mindedly when your needs aren’t being met

[themoneytree]

If you want to know why the dems aren’t winning just look at this thread. It’s ridiculous.
Meanwhile actual people’s lives are at stake here, but no one can give an opinion that is even slightly different without being called racist or being accused of being married to a Trump supporter. There is no discussion. No introspection.

You think you’re helping but you’re not.


Republicans are not going to reach across the aisle because they will immediately be labeled as racist, homophobic, bigots. It doesn’t encourage communication and it’s counter productive.

we don’t need republicans to tear us down. Dems tear each other down without help from anyone else. Why?

[jeaniebueller]

Nov 7, 2024 10:21:24 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

Nov 7, 2024 9:58:09 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

It’s definitely a time for us to be mad and vent and be angry, but seriously consider logging off of social media. Because I am seeing Harris voters, putting out some really deranged right now that are not going to help the party or help anyone in the future. Making jokes and comments mocking people because they voted for Trump because cost of their groceries have gone up, just so not the way to do this. It’s not a joke, cost of food is an actual problem for people, especially people who are not upper middle-class and wealthy. I don’t think Trump’s gonna do shit to fix it, but this is not the commentary to make.

I absolutely do not blame black women for saying this. I don't see how anyone can.

What makes you think I’ve seen this rhetoric from black women? The people I’ve seen saying this are rich, liberal white women.

[jeaniebueller]

Nov 7, 2024 10:29:26 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

I’m curious - why is it the Democrats that need to do the reaching? Why is it okay for Republicans to refuse to do anything that helps people and to shit all over equal rights and Democrats are the ones who aren’t doing enough listening? That’s bullshit, IMO.

What we DO need to be doing is figuring out how to combat disinformation. We are not, by and large, a society that embraces critical thinking. The GOP sure AF won’t be doing work in this area, so while Democrats are working on our next ground game, this needs to be a big part of it because the propaganda is only going to get worse.

We can do more than one thing. we just lost an election, and the only reason we won 2020 is because of the Covid pandemic. At a national level, Democrats are not getting through to people. Or at least the people that actually show up to the polls. Not to mention the ones who didn’t bother coming out. I don’t give a shit what Republicans do, they aren’t my party.. I want Democrats to start winning elections, that’s why we need to have a reckoning with the way we talked to voters, and what our messaging is, Trump gained voters in every demographic. That is the problem. We have to work on turnout, we have to work on gaining new voters, and we have to work on getting back some of the people who voted Biden in 2020 and voted Trump this year. The stuff I’m seeing in this thread, a lot of people are not ready to have this discussion.

[laladypoet]

Nov 7, 2024 14:50:40 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Nov 7, 2024 10:21:24 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

I absolutely do not blame black women for saying this. I don't see how anyone can.

What makes you think I’ve seen this rhetoric from black women? The people I’ve seen saying this are rich, liberal white women.

because I've seen a LOT of people from all walks saying this. and I understand why many feel this way. if you have only seen it from white women, fair enough.

[emilyj]

TW, racism*

Black students at several universities are receiving racist and threatening texts.

This story from the University of Alabama’s student paper.

thecrimsonwhite.com/117349/news/black-students-receive-racist-text-messages-after-trumps-win-part-of-apparent-nationwide-trend/

*You can make the “they aren’t all racists” argument all you want, but their vote enabled this shit. And if they don’t speak out and condemn it in the strongest way possible…well.

[melmaria]

Nov 7, 2024 12:50:02 GMT -5 somersault72 said:

Nov 7, 2024 7:49:52 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

A reminder that Biden has terrible approval ratings and that dems have won 3 of the last 5 elections. I don’t know that we need to throw out the baby with the bath water.

While racism and sexism are alive and well (and always will be), Kamala was intrinsically tied to the unpopular administration.

Everything isn’t broken, but I do think people are more exhausted and selfish since Covid. The Dem messaging hasn’t adjusted to that, IMO.

I agree with this, and the #1 thing MAGATs cared about is their fucking grocery prices. Even though the president doesn't control inflation (or corporate greed apparently), they ALL blamed Biden for how expensive everything is, and ergo Kamala because she is the VP. "She's had 3 years to fix this...." I have seen it time and time again. MAGATs care about MAGATs. Covid proved time and again that our society is a selfish one as a whole. And that's how they voted. (Don't get me wrong, I don't think these people are going to benefit from a Trump presidency--but THEY think they will).

There’s a reason “it’s the economy, stupid” has stood the test of time as a predictor in so many elections.

All humans are inherently self-interested. If Dems don’t have a compelling narrative story to tell about why their policies (and not GOP policies) will better serve people’s economic self interests, they will continue to lose.

[sakoro]

Nov 7, 2024 11:05:59 GMT -5 dirtyred said:

Nov 7, 2024 10:57:53 GMT -5 stuffandthings said:

I disagree with the first part--I think Republicans are equally reliant on identity politics, since "non-citizens don't belong here" is literally half their message. Republicans rely heavily on white male identity politics, as we've just seen. But I agree with the second part here--I DO really think Dems need to move away from being cozy with corporations. Why are we caping for Mark Cuban while trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy? We need more economic populism--it's always popular and it's only going to get more popular as things keep falling apart.

Illegal immigration is the main thing the people that I know that voted for Trump speak about.  They don't like the "illegals" getting housing and food assistance while they're struggling.  They say the Biden administration (and especially Kamala) did squat about it, seemed to care more for them than U.S. citizens.

And I do realize that they're only talking about brown immigrants.

My original comment was about Latinos in my district voting for Trump. They aren’t driving around in pickup trucks with Trump flags or wearing the maga hats and likely wouldn’t consider themselves part of that movement. Dems assumed that they could remind Latinos of his statement that Mexicans are rapists and they would stay in our camp, but that wasn’t enough.

Based on conversations with my neighbors, this was a vote against the increased housing costs since 2019 (41% increase in 5 years!!!) to the point that small business owners and people who work in trades have no chance of purchasing property unless they have equity from pre-pandemic times. Owning property, having children and extended families living close to each other are very important to this community. I didn’t hear anything about abortion or concerns about new immigrants. We also have a terrible pollution problem in our coastal communities due to Tijuana’s aging sewer system that got significantly worse these past few years. They don’t see democrats making any progress on this issue and voted for the other party as a protest.

I think it’s interesting that people saw much fewer Trump flags and signs this year and his rallies were sparsely attended. All of the first time Trump voters aren’t newly converted MAGATs — they are protest voters.

[wise_rita]

I'm not entirely convinced "Democrats don't know how to talk to voters".

I think it's "Democrats nominate women at the top of the ticket". THAT'S the fatal error, and it can't be made again.

Could be the grief talking, or the cynicism, or the facts.