Soul-Searching, Recriminations Within Democratic Party

[laladypoet]

Nov 7, 2024 19:10:38 GMT -5 themoneytree said:

Nov 7, 2024 18:41:06 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

I feel like I took acid. What happened to this board? What t happened to all the listening and learning we all did years ago? Fuck all??

I thought this discussion was about how to win an election. I don’t think that’s the same thing?

You dont win an election in the future by alienating marginalized people and defend those who shit on them. Page 1.

[Velar Fricative]

Nov 7, 2024 18:47:22 GMT -5 dontlook said:

Nov 7, 2024 18:24:33 GMT -5 tamarindy said:

It’s some insane mental gymnastics to say that every single Trump voter is racist/misogynist/fascist (especially the minorities who voted for him) but Harris voters arent at all genocide backers because … Trump would be worse. Are we or are we not responsible for the candidate we vote for? Or does that just work in one direction?

ETA - minority numbers weren’t “huge” correction

I don’t think they are the same. I do think we are all getting a little hot and this getting off topic and starting to grasp a bit.

In 2016 we learn (maybe for the first time for some of you) that this country is filled with a lot of deplorables. They are here, alive, well, and so excited about the 2024 results. We all agree. Got it! Now, how did Trump get those people PLUS others to hop into the deplorable basket? Why did so many decide to stay home instead of voting? What should the dem party do about the deplorables (ignore in my opinion) and the non-voters (worth some digging). As individuals that are hurt, scared, and sick of being sick I say we don’t have to do shit. You don’t have to extend an olive branch. You don’t have to talk to your neighbor. You don’t have to do any work to figure out his we got here it where we are going next. But the dem party sure as hell better do the work. This country will be in shambles in 4 years. I sure hope we get a chance to vote for something better.

Whew, busy day at work and coming back to a lot. This is spot on.

I want to make clear in my posts that I am not looking for us to extend olive branches to MAGA people who wore bandages over their ears, buy Trump underwear, attend his dumb rallies, supported (or participated in) the insurrection, etc. Those mofos are batshit crazy cult followers and I don’t care to have them in our tent. But….there are millions who voted for him who aren’t that, including many who never imagined voting for him before. But sure, let’s call a Black man who begrudgingly voted for Trump because cost of living sucks a racist. Let’s call an Arab-American who voted for Trump as the lesser of two evils for Gaza a bigot. Voters like them are telling the Democratic Party that shit needs to change, and that doesn’t mean the human rights elements of our platform need to change.

And I most definitely don’t expect people personally hurt by this election to be the ones to do the work. I can do the work. Millions of others can do the work. It’s okay for people to sit this one out of sheer exhaustion or hurt but something sure as shit needs to change.

[stuffandthings]

Nov 7, 2024 19:15:41 GMT -5 Saudade said:

Nov 7, 2024 11:15:50 GMT -5 stuffandthings said:

See, that's what I mean when I say I don't understand the path to persuasion here. Undocumented people are not getting housing or food assistance. They're ineligible for all federal and most state programs. They're paying more in taxes than they get. It's factually inaccurate. I run a nonprofit that sponsors legal immigrants to the US, and I can promise everyone, no one is getting free stuff except corporations and billionaires.

But beyond that, I don't understand what people think the difference is between a person who was born a citizen and a person who paid their entire life savings so a coyote could smuggle them into Arizona and they could escape a Venezuelan death squad. Why does the first person inherently deserve food and shelter and the second one doesn't?

How do we counter these ideas? Telling people the facts doesn't work. Telling people they're wrong doesn't work. Explaining to people that they should care about other people regardless of whether they were born here or had to sneak across the border to keep their kids from being murdered doesn't work. Appealing to their better natures doesn't work. This is why we're divided--it's not a question of "priorities," it's a question of the fundamental understanding of reality and right and wrong.

I know we’ve moved on but this hasn’t been commented on.

You are too rational. Of course undocumented people are ineligible for safety net programs or any assistance. But that doesn’t stop people from *believing* they get food stamps or housing assistance. It doesn’t stop them from telling other people that undocumented people get those services. I work in rural WI where it’s very Red. This is the viewpoint of so many around here. Trying to explain or show them how wrong they are, never works. Their response is always “I know they do. I’ve seen it. I saw a post on it”.

No, I totally get that it happens, I’m just trying to figure out how one fights back against that type of thinking. How do you persuade people to your side when they have zero interest in reality? How do you “win over” voters when those voters don’t respond to facts, logic, shaming, or empathy? I don’t know what to do.

[abs]

So Biden wouldn’t have won either. No Democrat would have. In fact I think Kamala performed better than Biden would have. Therefore we can't blame this all on racism. Is racism and misogyny a giant problem in this country? Good God yes and the pendulum has swung the other way. That doesn’t fully explain why we lost this election though. We have to figure it out so we don’t lose again,

We are all hurt and upset and angry right now. This all sucks and the next four years will be scary. I just want to be sure we figure out what isn’t working before we vote again.

[ajj]

Nov 7, 2024 19:05:30 GMT -5 Patsy Baloney said:

This thread is pretty far from its original place, but I saw this (was this already posted? Too lazy to check) and it’s the economy, for sure.

www.npr.org/2024/11/07/nx-s1-5182886/trump-economy-latino-women-right-election-results

I thought this was an interesting takeaway, too:
“there has been a change in the Hispanic electorate that has been underway for some time. Because as the population grows and more and more Hispanic voters were born in the U.S., are native English speakers, consume more English — almost exclusively English language media — they start politically seeming like just everybody else, right? And as the population grows in that segment in particular, you would expect, just like historically, Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, Polish, to assimilate and be like everybody else. So in some ways, from a demography standpoint, it's not that much of a surprise. ”

I do understand the economy as being part of the reason. I myself am not in the same economic situation as a lot of the women on this board and it has been extremely frustrating for me to hear news sources, representatives from the Democratic Party and pundits to be saying the economy is having the best recovery and we’re in a really great place because no, I’m sorry, that is not what most of the working class is dealing with out here. It’s just not. I would have liked them to acknowledge the problems we’re having and discussed that more. But I wasn’t willing to vote for Trump because of that.

However, why then did 92% of Black women and 88% of Jewish women still vote for Harris if economy is the main concern? This tends to lean towards the issue of misogyny and racism. I’m not talking about overt misogyny and racism, but the biases that people don’t realize they have. They saw this complete utter failure of a man as being more competent to fix the economy than the well qualified woman. I don’t really know how Dems could fix that problem. How do we get people to acknowledge their biases?

[lostrn]

Nov 7, 2024 19:32:52 GMT -5 stuffandthings said:

Nov 7, 2024 19:15:41 GMT -5 Saudade said:

I know we’ve moved on but this hasn’t been commented on.

You are too rational. Of course undocumented people are ineligible for safety net programs or any assistance. But that doesn’t stop people from *believing* they get food stamps or housing assistance. It doesn’t stop them from telling other people that undocumented people get those services. I work in rural WI where it’s very Red. This is the viewpoint of so many around here. Trying to explain or show them how wrong they are, never works. Their response is always “I know they do. I’ve seen it. I saw a post on it”.

No, I totally get that it happens, I’m just trying to figure out how one fights back against that type of thinking. How do you persuade people to your side when they have zero interest in reality? How do you “win over” voters when those voters don’t respond to facts, logic, shaming, or empathy? I don’t know what to do.

I don't think you do win over those people. I have a couple of acquaintances that are so firmly entrenched and completely believe that perspective. Different educational backgrounds, living in both rural and suburban areas, a range of ages and genders. It doesn't matter how logical the argument is, what evidence you bring to them...it just doesn't matter. They twist themselves into knots to deny that the Biden administration has done anything positive and that Trump does anything wrong. They deny groups of people are discriminated against, that some groups in our country don't feel safe, etc. this one guy had 2 family members telling him how they've been attacked, they are concerned for safety, and he was like "oh I don't know what you are talking about. Republicans aren't coming after anyone's rights. You aren't in danger." Say what now? I get not trusting a random person on the Internet but denying your own family, twice?

I'm sure there are people who could be reached somehow, but there's a significant number that aren't currently reachable. Maybe some distant day.

[sonrisa]

Nov 7, 2024 19:15:41 GMT -5 Saudade said:

Nov 7, 2024 11:15:50 GMT -5 stuffandthings said:

See, that's what I mean when I say I don't understand the path to persuasion here. Undocumented people are not getting housing or food assistance. They're ineligible for all federal and most state programs. They're paying more in taxes than they get. It's factually inaccurate. I run a nonprofit that sponsors legal immigrants to the US, and I can promise everyone, no one is getting free stuff except corporations and billionaires.

But beyond that, I don't understand what people think the difference is between a person who was born a citizen and a person who paid their entire life savings so a coyote could smuggle them into Arizona and they could escape a Venezuelan death squad. Why does the first person inherently deserve food and shelter and the second one doesn't?

How do we counter these ideas? Telling people the facts doesn't work. Telling people they're wrong doesn't work. Explaining to people that they should care about other people regardless of whether they were born here or had to sneak across the border to keep their kids from being murdered doesn't work. Appealing to their better natures doesn't work. This is why we're divided--it's not a question of "priorities," it's a question of the fundamental understanding of reality and right and wrong.

I know we’ve moved on but this hasn’t been commented on.

You are too rational. Of course undocumented people are ineligible for safety net programs or any assistance. But that doesn’t stop people from *believing* they get food stamps or housing assistance. It doesn’t stop them from telling other people that undocumented people get those services. I work in rural WI where it’s very Red. This is the viewpoint of so many around here. Trying to explain or show them how wrong they are, never works. Their response is always “I know they do. I’ve seen it. I saw a post on it”.

and they call those lies ‘policies’. They couldn’t vote for Kamala because they disagree with her on policy.

[themoneytree]

Nov 7, 2024 19:20:42 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

Nov 7, 2024 19:10:38 GMT -5 themoneytree said:

I thought this discussion was about how to win an election. I don’t think that’s the same thing?

You dont win an election in the future by alienating marginalized people and defend those who shit on them. Page 1.

Who is defending people who shit on marginalized people?

[stmonica2]

This whole thread is breaking my heart 💔

[mcppalmbeach]

Nov 7, 2024 17:02:27 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Nov 7, 2024 14:15:38 GMT -5 mcppalmbeach said:

I feel some concerns here when I see posters touting … “I have no red acquaintances” because what that tells me is that you probably are not around the working class people who really are the majority of people voting.

the idea that all working class people are pro-Trump doesn’t reflect reality.

I spent last night around a table of grieving, scared parents, a group more racially diverse than most states in this country, plenty of whom have needed a local food pantry to keep their families fed. Most LGBTQ people aren’t rich and aren’t white. Everyone who works an hourly wage job around me is blue - or more likely anti capitalist entirely.

The Trump supporters I see (and actively avoid) are all finance and tech elites whose kids follow Andrew Tate.

But sure, I’m elitist for not engaging with the guy with a yacht who tells his kid mine isn’t fully human.

I definitely want to be clear that I am absolutely on your side here. The Germans who joined the Nazi party for “reasons” were still Nazis at the end of the day. I am just looking back at how we got here and this is what I see in my very red area, we have the wealthy, the deplorables and then a bunch of every day people who feel like Democratic economic policies are screwing them and will do anything to get out of that situation, including aligning with the shittiest of people. But if there were people Dems could have reached, it’s my belief it’s them because they only care about their self interests. I know that is meaningless in the face of what you are dealing with in your community and what their actions have wrought.

[underwaterrhymes]

I put this in the other thread about taking action, but I’m going to share it here too because it talks a lot about what Democrats need to do to bring in new voters and the mobilization needed to get there:

It’s an ongoing livestream, but it’s recorded.

mobilize.us/s/DHTr7r

[jeaniebueller]

Nov 7, 2024 16:45:16 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

I'm not entirely convinced "Democrats don't know how to talk to voters".

I think it's "Democrats nominate women at the top of the ticket". THAT'S the fatal error, and it can't be made again.

Could be the grief talking, or the cynicism, or the facts.

You think that the sole reason that Harris lost is that she is a woman? What do you make of this: Elissa Slotkin won a Senate seat in Michigan, Trump won Michigan. There are Trump voters who voted for Slotkin. There are Trump voters who likely voted for Whitmer in 2022 too.

[Patsy Baloney]

Nov 7, 2024 20:55:45 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Nov 7, 2024 16:45:16 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

I'm not entirely convinced "Democrats don't know how to talk to voters".

I think it's "Democrats nominate women at the top of the ticket". THAT'S the fatal error, and it can't be made again.

Could be the grief talking, or the cynicism, or the facts.

You think that the sole reason that Harris lost is that she is a woman? What do you make of this: Elissa Slotkin won a Senate seat in Michigan, Trump won Michigan. There are Trump voters who voted for Slotkin. There are Trump voters who likely voted for Whitmer in 2022 too.

This has been of interest to me, too. There were a lot (A LOT) of strange breaks in voting this year. Lots of pro-abortion votes, lots of the measures passed…Trump won the state. Voting for dem senators, Trump won the state. Strange times.

[dontlook]

Nov 7, 2024 21:00:11 GMT -5 Patsy Baloney said:

Nov 7, 2024 20:55:45 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

You think that the sole reason that Harris lost is that she is a woman? What do you make of this: Elissa Slotkin won a Senate seat in Michigan, Trump won Michigan. There are Trump voters who voted for Slotkin. There are Trump voters who likely voted for Whitmer in 2022 too.

This has been of interest to me, too. There were a lot (A LOT) of strange breaks in voting this year. Lots of pro-abortion votes, lots of the measures passed…Trump won the state. Voting for dem senators, Trump won the state. Strange times.

Listening to Pod Save America right now and they are discussing how strange the votes were. It’s truly bizarre. I’m so interested in digging in as we get more data.

[abs]

Nov 7, 2024 21:00:11 GMT -5 Patsy Baloney said:

Nov 7, 2024 20:55:45 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

You think that the sole reason that Harris lost is that she is a woman? What do you make of this: Elissa Slotkin won a Senate seat in Michigan, Trump won Michigan. There are Trump voters who voted for Slotkin. There are Trump voters who likely voted for Whitmer in 2022 too.

This has been of interest to me, too. There were a lot (A LOT) of strange breaks in voting this year. Lots of pro-abortion votes, lots of the measures passed…Trump won the state. Voting for dem senators, Trump won the state. Strange times.

Yep. North Carolina was all blue except for the President? Nevada had people voting for President but nothing else? Very odd.

[livinitup]

Thank you everyone for posting. It makes me feel less insane to hear myself reflected in your voices. It’s been such a devastating gut punch these last few days. It’s SO OBVIOUS that we, the whole US, could have had a wonderful president and instead we got a bitter, vindictive idiot. It’s been really good to hear from all of you.

I was at the mechanic today waiting for my car to get snow tires. I brought my laptop and was doing work in the waiting room when I overheard the two men, normal men, talk about the election. They were fascinated that Trump got so many more votes this time. Fascinated that some states went D for the governor and and R for the president in the same election. I strained so hard to listen & figure out who they voted for - were they happy about the Trump win? I couldn’t tell. It was better that I didn’t know because I *think* they were leaning T (not MAGA) and I didn’t want to have to murder them.

I think I know what’s missing from the D messaging. Rage. The rage I’ve felt for days is almost real. Why are the talking points so fucking nice about everything? Explaining facts? Why weren’t we screaming that this fucking asshole was a lying liar, con artist? Like ALL THE TIME? There was so much to insult. Why didn’t they really go for it? Did we think it was just so obvious? Jokes on us!

Why did the talking points keep saying that the economy is recovering well instead of screaming that the mother fucking corporations are KEEPING ALL THE MONEY? Rent is high because big investment companies are shifting their “assests” to YOUR apartment building (all the buildings) and jacking up the rents. Now big companies are buying up all the HOUSES. Private equity is everywhere- they are taking over Vet practices for fuck sake. Did your Red Lobster close? Do you really want to know why? It wasn’t because people ate too much endless shrimp! The masterminds trotted away with millions & millions and ordinary people lost their waitress and line cook jobs.

These past few days are the first time I really get it. I really get walking around in a blind rage. Ds are too nice. Too polite. We should tell the truth like our lives depend on it.

Because look what happened when we didn’t.

[laladypoet]

I know I’ve been an asshole in this thread. I’m sorry. I know we are mostly in agreement. I’m so pissed. Especially for black women. They do EVERYTHING right for this fucking country. And look how we pay them back.

[shopgirl07]

Nov 7, 2024 22:25:37 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

I know I’ve been an asshole in this thread. I’m sorry. I know we are mostly in agreement. I’m so pissed. Especially for black women. They do EVERYTHING right for this fucking country. And look how we pay them back.

I do not think you’ve been an asshole in this thread.

We’re facing the end of democracy here, it’s ok to be outraged.

[neverfstop]

So much in this thread...I think it's all related and tied together. The bubbles are so real & it's only going to get worse on what we see/hear/believe from the news or social media. the algorithms show us what we want to see & engagement is driven by outrage -->

It's so much easier to be mean/ugly/lie/cheat/scream & get people on your side & fired up and convinced they are being suckered. Trump is incredible at funneling this anger. He's been doing it for years & people are still eating it up --->

The economy & the unfairness of it all plays into this. when people are stressed financially, I think they look for a scapegoat (the immigrants, the women, the politically correct, government regulations, too many taxes, the cost of environmental regulations, increased minimum wages). If you can't pay your bills or work multiple jobs, it's hard to prioritize other issues --->

We do have a messaging problem & need to better sell our ideas. Trump sent out checks with his name on them. Obama had all the TARP signs on his recovery projects. We should be talking non-stop & marketing everything the dems have done. I know we thought abortion was a winning issues, but I think we should go hard on healthcare costs & possibly losing the ACA. That should scare the shit out of people

I think there's an opening in the populist lane to be anti-big business, anti-monopoly, anti-billionaire & anti-oligarch. How do people still believe in trickle down economics when the wealth gap is wider than it's been in almost a century? How do all these takers (bankers, private equity, hedge funds) that contribute nothing of real value to our society get all the tax breaks & benefits while everybody else suffers?

I'm sorry so many are hurting & this is going to get much worse before it hopefully gets better. People will suffer & i think we seriously need to focus on the resistance. Who can we elevate? who can we put in the spotlight & rage against all the madness we know is coming? what's our game plan? How do we take care of the most vulnerable, speak up

[laladypoet]

Nov 7, 2024 22:37:19 GMT -5 shopgirl07 said:

Nov 7, 2024 22:25:37 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

I know I’ve been an asshole in this thread. I’m sorry. I know we are mostly in agreement. I’m so pissed. Especially for black women. They do EVERYTHING right for this fucking country. And look how we pay them back.

I do not think you’ve been an asshole in this thread.

We’re facing the end of democracy here, it’s ok to be outraged.

I appreciate that. I was just re-reading my posts and feeling bad. Im reactionary and obviously not super mature lol

[sonrisa]

Nov 7, 2024 11:00:21 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Nov 7, 2024 10:55:00 GMT -5 tamarindy said:

Nice threat. Gross.

That’s a threat? That’s what the Trump apologist considers a threat? Have you listened to him or his zealots? Because I have. And I’ve been one the other side of those very real threats. My 10 year old has been on the other side of those threats. In person. [redacted]

tamarindy : I crossed the line here and I'm sorry.

If it's any consolation, being unhinged here kept me from driving around looking for Trump bumper stickers or yard signs and smashing windows. So thanks for keeping me out of jail today. 

[laladypoet]

Nov 7, 2024 22:52:50 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Nov 7, 2024 11:00:21 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

That’s a threat? That’s what the Trump apologist considers a threat? Have you listened to him or his zealots? Because I have. And I’ve been one the other side of those very real threats. My 10 year old has been on the other side of those threats. In person. [redacted]

tamarindy : I crossed the line here and I'm sorry.

If it's any consolation, being irate here kept me from driving around looking for Trump bumper stickers or yard signs and smashing windows. So thanks for keeping me out of jail today. 

This too. I know that no one here is a Nazi-apologist. I also apologize for saying tamarindy is not a real person. That was pretty dick of me.

[wise_rita]

Nov 7, 2024 22:43:19 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

I think there's an opening in the populist lane to be anti-big business, anti-monopoly, anti-billionaire & anti-oligarch.

I'm afraid it's too late for that.  This is precisely who runs the country now, bought and paid for (even more so in 2 years when Trump is deposed) and they're not going anywhere.  Ever again. 

They already own the media, and have convinced people that a high stock market, unemployment rate, etc. is the worst economy America has ever seen.  There's no lie that can't be spun.  

All we have left is resistance.  How can we subvert the oligarchical ruling class without damaging ourselves?  I don't know, but that B4 movement out of South Korea is a step in the right direction (small as it may be, I think they're onto something).  

"Messaging from Democrats" is a pointless endeavor, IMO.  Look what happened the last time Democrats got their messaging right.  Domestic terrorism and a coup.    

We'll be lucky if we're left with a continued functioning democracy.






 

[wise_rita]

Nov 7, 2024 20:55:45 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Nov 7, 2024 16:45:16 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

I'm not entirely convinced "Democrats don't know how to talk to voters".

I think it's "Democrats nominate women at the top of the ticket". THAT'S the fatal error, and it can't be made again.

Could be the grief talking, or the cynicism, or the facts.

You think that the sole reason that Harris lost is that she is a woman? What do you make of this: Elissa Slotkin won a Senate seat in Michigan, Trump won Michigan. There are Trump voters who voted for Slotkin. There are Trump voters who likely voted for Whitmer in 2022 too.

No, not the only reason. 

I think the Slotkin example is proof that people cannot and will not accept a female president.  Other levels of power, sure, it's part of the fabric of modern life.

[Velar Fricative]

Nov 7, 2024 22:48:41 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

Nov 7, 2024 22:37:19 GMT -5 shopgirl07 said:

I do not think you’ve been an asshole in this thread.

We’re facing the end of democracy here, it’s ok to be outraged.

I appreciate that. I was just re-reading my posts and feeling bad. Im reactionary and obviously not super mature lol

I’ve already been operating under the belief that nothing in this thread should be used against people. We are all mad and it’s manifesting in different ways.

The only reason I’m posting what I’m posting is because I felt the urge to look for rationality quickly, and I think it’s related to some mental stuff I’m going through. I mean, it’s good to be rational but I’m also surprised at myself that I’m not just raging right now. I am internally but it’s not manifesting the way it was in 2016.

[sent]

Nov 7, 2024 22:18:04 GMT -5 livinitup said:

Why did the talking points keep saying that the economy is recovering well instead of screaming that the mother fucking corporations are KEEPING ALL THE MONEY? Rent is high because big investment companies are shifting their “assests” to YOUR apartment building (all the buildings) and jacking up the rents. Now big companies are buying up all the HOUSES. Private equity is everywhere- they are taking over Vet practices for fuck sake. Did your Red Lobster close? Do you really want to know why? It wasn’t because people ate too much endless shrimp! The masterminds trotted away with millions & millions and ordinary people lost their waitress and line cook jobs.

This is what I've been thinking about. Private equity ramped up swallowing private practices in my profession since about 2019 and went gangbusters after COVID. They just started slowing down in the last year as interest rates went up. Now they're going to go gangbusters again. They've bought up the mom and pop everything out there. I needed to get my garage door fixed earlier this year and I called the company who installed the door 7 years ago. I smelled a PE rat by the way the guy answered the questions and I later confirmed my suspicions. 

But... I've read that the D don't go after all of the excellent points in your post because the ones in Washington are also paid off by the big corps. It's not just the Rs. Both sides are equally bought and paid for. No one cares about the small guy anymore because trying to rein in the corps is a ticket to not getting re-elected. 

But also... I see your point and absolutely agree the messaging sucks. I've lived with a narcissist for years. The only way to communicate is 1 word answers. Conversations should always be short, tell half truths only and purposely leave out all the pertinent details. Word salad or "gish gallop" as I learned on this board is another strategy to avoid directly answering hard questions. Being nice and proper gets you nothing. ZERO. Love Michelle Obama, but going high while they continue to go low is not the way to behave if a D wants to win. 

[basilosaurus]

We can talk about messaging and communicating policy all we want, but I truly think it's all about feelings.

People hear anything other than English in their neighborhoods and stores and they *feel* a minority being pushed out. Facts don't matter. Trump offers them a person to blame and lies about the numbers (one of his last rallies I think he was up to 25M)

People feel the strain of increased costs in groceries, rent, gas. Trump offers them someone to blame, and then lies about being able to fix it with tariffs. Facts that it's the oligarchs, the untaxed wildly overpaid corporate CEOs and tech bros don't matter. Trump will lower taxes, but for them, not the people struggling to put food on the table. Trump will lie and say it's the worst economy in the history of ever, and people feel that's true because they're struggling. Trump will lie and say unemployment and inflation are the highest ever, and someone unemployed or facing higher costs will say, ok, that would make sense for my personal situation even if the actual data is the opposite.

I do think most who vote for him are racists and bigots. Maybe not explicitly but not particularly bothered by it, either, since they don't see past their own lived experience. Who cares if "others" lose rights when the promise is your personal situation will improve which, facts say is highly unlikely, but it feels good to have that hope.

Crime must be on the increase because it *feels* like it because there are "others" around. Nevermind it's not on the rise, and the gop messages extremely well to play to fear whomever may seen others. This also plays into, as we've discussed many times, that other is likely just the newest group to make its presence seen in heard. Historically, Irish, Italians, white flight (omg, "they" can now move into *my* neighborhood?! It's no longer safe! We're outnumbered!)

Until it, whatever it is, does affect us personally. Maybe we have a wife facing scary pregnancy complications or a teen daughter got raped. Maybe we are a green card holder, been here for a long time, but now face deportation. Then maybe there's a slight chance people look past their own nose.

And I despair because all that is part of being human, and I don't think messaging actual truths and policy positions combats that. Clearly it doesn't. It doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person if they fall for lies and logical fallacies and choose the personal over the general good. With gutting public education, increasing logical illiteracy combined with very easy to create targeted AI and bots and algorithms that prey on human nature, I don't see how we can avoid it or turn it around.

That was my attempt at not saying to any trump voter or any dem that didn't vote "fuck all y'all" because that really is what I feel. I just am attempting to in good faith look for logic of why people know who this asshole is and ignore it and think their lives will be better despite him absolutely openly promising it will be far far worse.

[neverfstop]

More random thoughts...

The 4B stuff is nonsense, we can not blame 50% of our population and all men. it's basically like the Incel movement for women...just NO.

STFU about Nancy Pelosi (said jokingly). She was amazing & did amazing things and nothing to do with this. she's an incredible leader, fundraiser, and human.

yes, it's about vibes & feelings. I think we need to move on from identity politics & be the party of "good government". People have lost faith in government at all levels - school districts, cities, policing, states, feds, agencies. we need to show that it can function better and be a force for good in people's lives. School reform? Health insurance reform? Tax reform? Housing reform? Those are all everyday things that would make drastic improvements in people's lives.

we need a 10 point plan a la the Gingrich "Conrtact with America"

[neverfstop]

I think harris was more tied to Biden than we could have imagined. She was stuck with his track record, stuck with Biden's economy, stuck with his inflation, stuck not being able to really criticize anything Biden did b/c she was still sitting vP. She was basically running as in incumbent when people waned changed & felt angry about the current state of affairs.

I blame Biden & the democratic party more. He should have NEVER run again. i keep thinking about all the 'whispers' that we heard & how they had some level of truth (maybe I'm just looking for where things could have been different). Biden could have spent 4 years preparing to step aside for the next generation & he didn't. He could have elevated new leadership & seen that h was going to be running against trump & prepare more accordingly. we should have had a primary to "get the pulse of the people"

Anything & everything we've done in the past needs to be 2nd guessed & probably thrown out. We need a new primary system STAT. Do all the celebrity endorsements really help or get middle class votes? Do spending $1B on door knocking & ground games & obnoxious texts move the needle?

[neverfstop]

If you had to summarize the Democratic message in 2024, what was it?

Trump's main message was "I'll fix it & it's their (whatever boogie man) fault!" It worked and people didn't care about anything else or who he was or that he had zero policy plans beyond Project 2025.

The dem's main message was ______? "Not trump"? or "A new way forward" (that's what comes up on google as her slogan)