I don't have a gift link because I'm not signing up, but I saw this on IG and the comments were gold.
Basically boomer parents are upset that their millennial kids aren't having kids. And millennials are like "well you ruined everything and we can't afford to have kids, buy a house, and oh yeah, pay to raise them."
i think some of it is an age/gap thing...many people used to be grandparents in their late 40s/50s, but now it's often pushing 60+ for 1st time grandparents if people don't have kids until in their 30s.
The other thing wish would happen is more 'adopted' grandparents. SOOOO many people would love help with their kids but have toxic relationships with their own parents or they live too far away. There's plenty of places these people could step in and have that kind of relationship with a non-blood family who would really benefit from having a wider community.
I mean this in the nicest possible way, but these people need to get lives of their own. Hobbies, volunteer, make friends with younger neighbors that could use this sort of relationship like neverfstop is talking about. You want to pass on a particular skill/knowledge? Cool, lead a club at your local elementary school. Want regular interactions with kids to keep yourself feeling younger? I'm sure there's a family in your neighborhood who could use a friend to meet their kids after school and keep an eye on them until a parent gets home.
For a generation that is very "the world doesn't owe you anything" this is just rich. Currently my kids (11 and 16) are firmly in the no kids camp, and I've made it clear that while they're clearly very young and this is not a decision they need to/should make now, when they do make this decision and others as adults, they owe me nothing but to do their best to be a good person.
ETA: I don't think there's anything wrong with grieving the possibility of something you were looking forward to, it's the handwringing over what to do with their time/lives that I find over the top. Not all of the people interviewed were necessarily doing so, but pushing your feelings about onto your children is selfish.
Children deserve parents who really want to be parents. Say these people are successful in pressuring their children to procreate. Now what? They’ve subjected a child to having a parent who never really wanted to be a parent. That’s awful. Why would you want that? Are you that selfish?
I don’t hate children. I respect children enough to know I shouldn’t be their mother.
It’s a little weird that more than one wanted to be the “cool grandparent” with the cool house and they all focused on wanting grandchildren to do fun things with. It actually didn’t seem very child centered to me. Maybe small child centered but not much about having a relationship with them. What happens past finger painting? What if the child has health issues and can’t do all you are imagining? Or they live far away?
Hopefully they aren’t pushy with their children! I’m sure my parents and ILs were surprised/disappointed that none of their children had children themselves but they kept that quiet which was great.
I mean this in the nicest possible way, but these people need to get lives of their own. Hobbies, volunteer, make friends with younger neighbors that could use this sort of relationship like neverfstop is talking about. You want to pass on a particular skill/knowledge? Cool, lead a club at your local elementary school. Want regular interactions with kids to keep yourself feeling younger? I'm sure there's a family in your neighborhood who could use a friend to meet their kids after school and keep an eye on them until a parent gets home.
For a generation that is very "the world doesn't owe you anything" this is just rich. Currently my kids (11 and 16) are firmly in the no kids camp, and I've made it clear that while they're clearly very young and this is not a decision they need to/should make now, when they do make this decision and others as adults, they owe me nothing but to do their best to be a good person.
Yeah this. My goal as a mom has been to keep my own identity and not have any expectations for my daughter other than that she be happy and healthy. If she wants to move half way across the world and work in a traveling circus, great.
There was actually a post on ML with people upset that their parents weren’t helping out as much with their kids in their retirement as they hoped/expected. So the opposite is also true and I was a bit perplexed that people expect their parents to move near them.
Yes I think having a community is important, especially as we age but that certainly shouldn’t come at the expense of putting pressure or ideals on others. At least in the article the parents seem to understand on an intellectual level that they shouldn’t talk to their kids about their feelings.
Post by wanderingback on Nov 15, 2024 8:21:45 GMT -5
Also, maybe it’s cause I’m in the thick of having a toddler but I don’t even "get" the desire to be a grandparent haha. To be honest, if our daughter does have kids and needs help I hope I’m not a shitty grandparent lol. Watch, she’s gonna be the opposite of me and have like 5 kids and I’m gonna be like fuck! There’s a reason I’m one and done…
There is a difference between grieving the chance to be a grandparent and pressuring your kids to become parents. It doesn't seem like these people get that.
But I think a lot of people romanticize what being a grandparent is like.
Children deserve parents who really want to be parents. Say these people are successful in pressuring their children to procreate. Now what? They’ve subjected a child to having a parent who never really wanted to be a parent. That’s awful. Why would you want that? Are you that selfish?
I don’t hate children. I respect children enough to know I shouldn’t be their mother.
This a million times.
I have kids and wanted kids, but there are days when it’s crazy hard. I don’t know how I’d get through the hard parts mentally if I didn’t want my kids.
Post by underwaterrhymes on Nov 15, 2024 8:43:03 GMT -5
I think a lot of the people who want this so desperately are those whose entire identities are wrapped up in their roles as parent, spouse, grandparent, rather than who they are as people. Creating richness in life that isn’t tied into roles is really important, IMO.
I would have loved to moved away, but my job kept me in the town where I grew up and near all of our parents. raising our kids would be infinitely harder without having their help almost weekly. I do plan on and hope that we can be able to do the same thing for our children, if they choose to have kids. It takes a village to raise kids, And I do see it as something that we (or at least I) owe the next generation to pay it forward and help them.
Children deserve parents who really want to be parents. Say these people are successful in pressuring their children to procreate. Now what? They’ve subjected a child to having a parent who never really wanted to be a parent. That’s awful. Why would you want that? Are you that selfish?
I don’t hate children. I respect children enough to know I shouldn’t be their mother.
Same. I have known since I was a child that I never wanted to be a parent. My mom says I started saying it as young as 4 or 5. I don’t hate kids. I always tell people the best thing I ever did was become an aunt. I have been told so many times “but you would be a great mother” which I hate because no I wouldn’t. Can I be loving and nurturing and motherly? Sure at times but it’s not my personality in general. I feel like I can have a much more positive impact on young people when I can choose to show up when I’m at by best and not be forced to show up all the time at the expense of myself.
Post by jeaniebueller on Nov 15, 2024 8:56:50 GMT -5
I don't know why people are so mad about this article, TBH. I can definitely understand being disappointed about not having grandkids? I don't know why its not a valid opinion to have. I can't put my finger on it, but some of the comments online about this article have an underlying tone of sexism towards the woman in the article. It feels like another 'ha ha Karen,' kind of thing.
I don't know why people are so mad about this article, TBH. I can definitely understand being disappointed about not having grandkids? I don't know why its not a valid opinion to have. I can't put my finger on it, but some of the comments online about this article have an underlying tone of sexism towards the woman in the article. It feels like another 'ha ha Karen,' kind of thing.
Because they're centering themselves, much like boomers are accused of doing, instead of actually listening.
I've been through a LOT of grief counseling and what was in the article is all very normal and healthy.
The comments are definitely attacking the straw man of parents “demanding” or “feeling entitled” to grandchildren. There surely are those people, but the ones interviewed were not those people.
Personal story here - my adult daughter (26) still lives at home. It has been a mutual decision, and it works well for us. She is unmarried, and until recently considered herself to be a lesbian. Last Christmas, she hooked up with a guy, and despite using 2 forms of birth control, she got pregnant anyway. She knew before her period was even late, which is important because we live in GA, with a 6 week abortion ban. She made the choice to continue her pregnancy, but kept it secret. I finally found out when she was 9 weeks along, and was gobsmacked. I offered to help her visit a cousin in Washington if she wanted to have an abortion. She said that wasn't what she wanted. I realized that if I am going to profess to be pro-choice, I had to respect her choice in the matter. I didn't think I would become a grandmother without medical intervention, and I expected it would be after she moved out and found a partner/spouse. I was a bit resentful that I wouldn't have a traditional grandparent experience of spoil the child and send it back home the the parents. Home would be with me, so I would be more of a co-parent than a grandparent. It took a while for me to come around to the idea and start to become excited about the prospect.
TW - pg loss Fast forward to 17 weeks. It was Good Friday, and she was preparing to go to work (she is a night shift RN, working in the post-partum unit). She just wasn't feeling good, but went in to work anyway. She decided to go down to the labor and delivery unit for a quick scan. There was no heartbeat. Everything up until that point had been perfect. She was absolutely devastated. I was absolutely devastated, as were my parents (who live close enough that they would get to regularly see their great-grandson). She didn't start to miscarry for another 10 days, so I lived on pins and needles looking for signs of sepsis, by which point it might be too late to save her anyway.
So I understand the grief of not becoming a grandparent. Yes, I realize that my situation is a bit different from that described in the article, but my sadness is real.
I think it’s completely normal to grieve the future you envisioned that isn’t your reality. The article also talks about how the kids are also in a position now to feel bad about not giving their parents grandchildren. Which is really hard. “Part of my grief process has also been like, oh, is this something that I’m not able to give to my parents?” she said. “And what responsibility do I have for that?”
Also, there can be a “fantasy grandparent” in people’s minds. While people may think they would be the “cool grandparent”, in reality they may find that they don’t like kids much, or prefer doing their own thing (a la the other thread where someone disappointed that their parents who kept saying they would move close then moved far away).
Post by stuffandthings on Nov 15, 2024 9:32:42 GMT -5
I've seen this posted in a couple places now, and it's fascinating to me because it's so not part of my family's culture to expect children or grandchildren. Both sets of grandparents were in their 30s when they started having kids even though they married much younger; my dad's mom was in her 40s when he was born. My mom's mom was actually kind of disappointed when my parents decided to have children; my aunt is childless by choice and my grandmother has always admired that decision. My parents never really "expected" to have grandkids--they thought it might be a possibility, sure, but it wasn't something they dreamed about because choosing NOT to have kids has always been a valid choice for both sides of my family. My parents have three children and that's considered a "large family" in my family.
I have one child. My middle sister is disabled and likely will not have children. My youngest sister is childless by choice. My parents DOTE on my kid, but my parents have also been very explicit about the fact that that they appreciate loving my kid and do not expect or "need" more children if I don't want to have them. I didn't realize that this attitude was such a privilege and a gift until I heard more about how other Boomers are disappointed.
I think it's definitely normal to mourn something you expected and wanted. It just didn't really occur to me that having grandchildren might be a thing you would expect or anticipate.
I agree it's ok to grieve the loss of something you thought would be a part of your life. It's not ok to pressure people to make massive life changes just to please you - but it's ok to be sad things didn't work out the way you wanted them.
I don't have kids and I'm lucky that my sister did, so my parents get to be grandparents to 2 kids. I am sure they would enjoy having more grandkids, but they are not lacking and probably have a little more balance because they aren't pulled in the direction of three different families (my other sister is also child free and plans to stay that way). They are amazing grandparents and I think it would have been a little sad not to give them that opportunity, but there is no way I would be having kids regardless.
I am an aunt and love being one. I have joked that I'd love to be a grandparent, too. I could not handle the day to day of raising kids, but I love being able to swoop in and do fun stuff and spoil them . Also, I have a lot of grief about the fact that my sister chose to move her family to a place I will never live. I guess it's not the same because these are actual people who exist so there is something tangible to wish I could be a part of in a bigger way - but I think it makes me a little more empathetic to the people who wanted to be grandparents.
Children deserve parents who really want to be parents. Say these people are successful in pressuring their children to procreate. Now what? They’ve subjected a child to having a parent who never really wanted to be a parent. That’s awful. Why would you want that? Are you that selfish?
I don’t hate children. I respect children enough to know I shouldn’t be their mother.
I think the pressure also comes from the fact that in many cases they were pressured to become parents. It's just "what you did" 30+ years ago. Now with it being more socially acceptable to remain child-free if you choose, there may be some jealousy on the part of older people that felt pressured themselves?
I agree it's ok to grieve the loss of something you thought would be a part of your life. It's not ok to pressure people to make massive life changes just to please you - but it's ok to be sad things didn't work out the way you wanted them.
I am an aunt and love being one. I have joked that I'd love to be a grandparent, too.
I agree with this! The feelings of grief or disappointment are completely valid but don’t use it to pressure your kids.
My DH has two local aunt/uncles who never had kids. He has close relationships with them and also helps out in ways their kids likely would have if they had had them - tech help with their computers/phones, lifting heavy things, financial stuff, etc. I expect this will only increase as they get older and need assistance with additional things. They also spend time with our kids coming to birthdays and other events and even the more mundane stuff like cutting down a Christmas tree. His aunt takes DD school shopping at the outlets every year. I think it’s great to cultivate these relationships even if it isn’t officially a grandparent/child/grandchild situation. I say the more the merrier for adults in my kids’ lives who make them feel loved and valued.
I cannot STAND the thought of "I am owed a grandchild." My parents have never said anything about the fact that we don't have kids. My MIL has said we are selfish and we owe it to her to have kids. So that's fun.
I know my mom wanted to be a Nana, and part of me feels bad that she won't get to be (I'm an only child, and I had a hysterectomy at age 34, so it's not happening). But I don't feel bad enough about it to uproot the life we have and the decisions we made to give her that. I think I would be a wholly shitty parent, and I don't think it's fair of me to have a child when I believe I will suck at it.
Post by mrsslocombe on Nov 15, 2024 11:43:24 GMT -5
My mother and MIL are/were definitely upset that they would never have grandkids, but they didn't pressure us thank god. I feel bad for my mother, but it's nowhere near enough reason to have kids. And both my sister and I live far from my parents anyway.
My parents live next to a young Mennonite couple that already have two kids and will probably end up with 5+ and my parents LOVE it. The older toddler wanders over whenever my dad is outside and "helps" him do yard work. And my mom gets her baby fix. It's full circle, because growing up there were two widows next door that didn't have grandkids and I used to wander over to their house every day to play.
I mean this in the nicest possible way, but these people need to get lives of their own. Hobbies, volunteer, make friends with younger neighbors that could use this sort of relationship like neverfstop is talking about. You want to pass on a particular skill/knowledge? Cool, lead a club at your local elementary school. Want regular interactions with kids to keep yourself feeling younger? I'm sure there's a family in your neighborhood who could use a friend to meet their kids after school and keep an eye on them until a parent gets home.
For a generation that is very "the world doesn't owe you anything" this is just rich. Currently my kids (11 and 16) are firmly in the no kids camp, and I've made it clear that while they're clearly very young and this is not a decision they need to/should make now, when they do make this decision and others as adults, they owe me nothing but to do their best to be a good person.
Yeah this. My goal as a mom has been to keep my own identity and not have any expectations for my daughter other than that she be happy and healthy. If she wants to move half way across the world and work in a traveling circus, great.
There was actually a post on ML with people upset that their parents weren’t helping out as much with their kids in their retirement as they hoped/expected. So the opposite is also true and I was a bit perplexed that people expect their parents to move near them.
Yes I think having a community is important, especially as we age but that certainly shouldn’t come at the expense of putting pressure or ideals on others. At least in the article the parents seem to understand on an intellectual level that they shouldn’t talk to their kids about their feelings.
I remember that thread and being squarely in the camp of retired parents do whats best for THEM not their kids as my mom/stepdad moved 1k miles away when they retired bc they wanted OUT of pricey California. My xh was livid when my mom told us she was retiring to WA State, how DARE she moves away from her only close grandchild ?!? I was eh ... having been raised 3k miles away from grandparents.
My grandmother didn't pressure her kids to give her grandkids but she was very vocal about celebrating a 25th wedding anniversary w/o any grandchildren (she got married at 29). When her 25th anniversary came, she had TWO grandkids. My parents didn't pressure us kids at all and were very much of the mindset that you'll have kids IF and when you want to. My mom was 58 and my dad 59 when the first grandkids arrived.
Post by picksthemusic on Nov 15, 2024 11:51:15 GMT -5
I had the type of grandparents that could have cared less about us (my brother and I) on my dad's side. We were treated as help (my brother) or a vessel for The Gospel (me). They both passed before I was in my 20s.
On my mom's side, we were cared for and loved, but at an arm's length. As we got older, it got better, but I know they felt an obligation to us. As adults, they liked us a lot better as people. They also enjoyed our children a heck of a lot more.
My kids' grandparents (my ILs) are SO involved and hate being away from them for longer than a couple of weeks. It's more cultural, but they TRULY love being grandparents. I'm grateful, mostly, as we know how lucky we are to have them. My mom and dad are fairly hands-off grandparents and do the cards/money-for-birthdays-and-holidays mostly and spend time when we make it happen. It's definitely cultural, and also due to divorce and distance.
If people are wanting connection, it's out there for them to find. Creating community is probably going to be the only way we come out of the next 4 years somewhat intact.
This is probably flameful, but I'm glad more people are recognizing they don't want to have kids. I think a lot of people prior to the early 2000s had kids because that's what you did and ooof, they suck as parents. I'm watching that with my BIL.
Some self awareness isn't a bad thing.
Also, building your village is just as important as you age as when you're a parent. I'm so thankful that when my parents moved closer to us they have their own activities and hobbies.
I’m sure the would-be grandparents they interviewed are great and all, but there sure is a big dose of magical thinking going on. I get that the reporter was going for a very light touch on a very general topic but these older parents are grieving the loss of their magic grandchildren - the able-bodied ones free of mental health disorders who love to come over on holidays and days off from school.
Also, not one word from a mom/dad pressured into parenthood by their parents who suddenly find those grandparents “very busy” all the time - except on holidays or when the parents cart them to the grandparent’s house? Come on. I hear it often enough that it should at least be a teeny, tiny part of the conversation.
Damn. Maybe I am feeling salty because this “grief” and “loss” is the foundation of why pro-birthers are coming for our rights on contraception and health care. Why “let” selfish women deny their parents and society of grandchildren?