Help me craft a response @@ book restrictions

[karinothing]

As a heads up I will likely delete this post at some point. 

I am the president of the PTA at my kid's middle school. This week we had our executive board meeting, and our treasurer told us that her kid brought home a book from the library that she viewed as inappropriate. As some background her kid skipped a grade so he is young for middle school (10 and we have kids that are almost 15). 

She was pushing for an idea to age restrict books in the library and is really stuck on the idea that our school policy is to have age-appropriate books for the population the library serves. IMO the library does that because it has to serve the most immature 6th grader and the most mature 8th grader. She has spoken to the school librarian and head librarian already and received the policy and the policy for challenging books. It doesn't appear that she wants to ban the books just age restrict them. 

Anyway, at the meeting. I said the PTA will not be getting involved in this issue 1) because I don't believe in it, 2) the National PTA already issued a resolution against restriction on books, 3) it is too controversial of an issue and I am not making our school a media circus, 4) the school already has an appropriate policy and there is no indication it is not being following. 

Anyway, I thought we ended the meeting that way and the discussion was over but her husband texted me to ask if we could have a follow up convo yesterday. I said i didn't have time yesterday so he asked again if he could present a discussion of age-appropriate library books at the PTA meeting. 

I don't want this. I also don't want to cause animosity on the board (and if she quits the PTA will be disbanded because we need a treasurer) and also they are my neighbors, so even more complicated. So, I need to respond to him but 100% do not want to add this to our agenda (which were set in the summer and approved by the principal). 

I reached out to the county council of PTAs and got some good advice for them, but just looked for more I guess! What should I say to him? The County PTA suggested just meeting with him individually because maybe he just wants to be heard but standing firm on the issue. But also, he can always move to amend the agenda at a meeting so I can't prevent that 100%. 

Anyway advice?

[lilac05]

I would try to emphasize that the school has a wide variety of books to serve the entire school population. I doubt there are currently resources to go through the process of completely redoing the way the library works and how books are categorized. In addition, “age appropriate” is SO subjective. What is appropriate for one family is not for another.

I would just encourage them to know what days their student goes to the library and ask what they’ve been reading…exactly like it sounds like they were already doing.

This is the “parent choice/control” that so many people ask for!

[StrawberryBlondie]

I agree her request is facially ridiculous, but aside from that, it sounds really impractical.

Who does she believe should be the one(s) to decide what's age appropriate? Is she proposing a complete re-organization of the library? Someone goes through every book to determine which ages it's appropriate for? Are their library cards (or whatever school libraries have) supposed to block certain age kids from checking out certain books? And if so, who would do the technical work to make that happen? That sounds both time consuming and extremely expensive.

[rachers]

My face right now.

Super curious what book they deemed “inappropriate”.

I’m on the PTA board too so I get the politics of it but I would probably keep deferring them to the school. I know that’s more of a burden on them but they also have more authority on the matter.

[erbear]

Does library selection even fall under the PTA? I would push the idea of allowing parents to age restrict for their own kids, but that they don't have the right to do so for anyone else's kid. If they don't want their kid reading certain books, they need to address that with their child.

[lemoncupcake]

I’m on a PTA and we had a similar issue come up - not about library books but about recess policies. We gave the parent the opportunity to speak for a few minutes at a meeting and ask anyone who is interested in joining her on her initiative separately, but it is not a PTA thing we are taking on.

The PTA has a pretty clear scope of responsibility in our mission and these kinds of things don’t really fit.

[karinothing]

Nov 21, 2024 10:07:03 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I would try to emphasize that the school has a wide variety of books to serve the entire school population. I doubt there are currently resources to go through the process of completely redoing the way the library works and how books are categorized. In addition, “age appropriate” is SO subjective. What is appropriate for one family is not for another.

I would just encourage them to know what days their student goes to the library and ask what they’ve been reading…exactly like it sounds like they were already doing.

This is the “parent choice/control” that so many people ask for!

Right, they want to go off publisher recommendations. I talked to the head librarian and she said that they don't ONLY review publisher recommendations. They also look at professional reviews of books. But yes, the National PTA statement basically says we do not agree that one parent should have the right to restrict books for other families. 

I guess the issue is he had already read 75% of the book by the time he got home. 

[karinothing]

@strawberryblondi - yes, they are proposing a complete restructuring of school libraries. I don't think the kids have school library cards and I have no idea how the librarian would even know how old a kid is.

@racher - www.amazon.com/Grown-Tiffany-D-Jackson/dp/0062840355

erbear, it 100% does not fall under the PTA as far as actual selection, but the PTA can advocate for anything we want (but I don't want to advocate for this clearly lol)

lemoncupcake, thanks! Yeah, I am not sure I can just say no, but also this is such a politically fraught issue and we it would blow up in the area we live in. I dont want to end up on Fox news

[jinkies]

Yeah library book selection would not fall under the pTA at our school either. So that's a pretty easy out-- just say that you understand his concern but it's really something for him to address directly with the administration as it is outside the PTA's scope.

[wanderingback]

Nov 21, 2024 10:17:33 GMT -5 lemoncupcake said:

I’m on a PTA and we had a similar issue come up - not about library books but about recess policies. We gave the parent the opportunity to speak for a few minutes at a meeting and ask anyone who is interested in joining her on her initiative separately, but it is not a PTA thing we are taking on.

The PTA has a pretty clear scope of responsibility in our mission and these kinds of things don’t really fit.

Yeah this. I would just emphasize that this is not within the scope of the PTA. And then at next meeting remind everyone what the scope of the PTA is. In addition if there are specific steps/protocols for people to follow for parent concerns/complaints remind them what those are.

[wawa]

Nov 21, 2024 10:22:50 GMT -5 karinothing said:

@strawberryblondi - yes, they are proposing a complete restructuring of school libraries. I don't think the kids have school library cards and I have no idea how the librarian would even know how old a kid is.

@racher - www.amazon.com/Grown-Tiffany-D-Jackson/dp/0062840355

erbear , it 100% does not fall under the PTA as far as actual selection, but the PTA can advocate for anything we want (but I don't want to advocate for this clearly lol)

lemoncupcake , thanks! Yeah, I am not sure I can just say no, but also this is such a politically fraught issue and we it would blow up in the area we live in. I dont want to end up on Fox news

ok, so that seems like a super heavy book for a sheltered 10 year old.  I get the initial gasp response on their part, but to want to change school policy over it is a lot. That's conversations with your kid, not a change in school policy.

I think you have the conversation with them where maybe you try to talk them down, but mostly you just have to be really clear that based on guidance from the higher levels of the PTA, this isn't a move the PTA will support.  If they do want to make a motion to add to the agenda, you can reiterate that position in the meeting and say that the PTA meeting can be used as an initial forum to raise the topic but that the PTA will not be taking a position and they and anybody else who feels similarly is welcome to continue the conversation with the administration directly moving forward.  Then they say their piece, the meeting moves on and hopefully from the POV of the PTA that's the end of it.  

[karinothing]

So, this is where it is hard because I think we take on a lot of stuff that is not within the scope of the PTA. For example, we are holding a Know Your Rights session for immigrant families and bringing in legal aid organizations. So I feel "bad" saying that but then also doing this project.

And it is w/in the PTA to advocate for policy changes.

[karinothing]

wawa, oh I 100% agree re: the book. It is a lot for a 10 year old. Your advice is basically what the county PTA said and is my current plan. I just really wish our relationship wasn't so intertwined (neighbor/exec board)

[AJL]

As a former PTA president, this is how I would address it:

"Dictating school library policy is outside the scope of the role of the PTA. As a parent, you are welcome to take up this challenge with the school. As a PTA, we will be following the current position statement from the national PTA (linked here )."

End. 
Good luck!

[jinkies]

I like wawa's suggestion.

I think you can also frame it as "don't have the bandwidth to take this on" if you feel it might be a more compelling argument than "outside of scope". If your agendas are set for the entire school year, and the pTA is so small that it would disband if one person quit, I think its fair to frame it as "we have all of these important initiatives and only so much manpower, this would be a major, controversial undertaking that would not be supported by the national PTA. I'm concerned that it would draw limited resources from our other plans, and just can't take it on."

Then as others have said, give him the option to speak a few minutes at the meeting as an FYI and encourage people to reach out to him if they want to help with his effort (outside of PTA).

[AJL]

Nov 21, 2024 10:35:39 GMT -5 karinothing said:

So, this is where it is hard because I think we take on a lot of stuff that is not within the scope of the PTA. For example, we are holding a Know Your Rights session for immigrant families and bringing in legal aid organizations. So I feel "bad" saying that but then also doing this project.

And it is w/in the PTA to advocate for policy changes.

This would fall under the position statements from national PTA re: opportunity and equity. So it's not outside the scope of a PTA to do a presentation like this. 

[StrawberryBlondie]

Nov 21, 2024 10:22:50 GMT -5 karinothing said:

@strawberryblondi - yes, they are proposing a complete restructuring of school libraries. I don't think the kids have school library cards and I have no idea how the librarian would even know how old a kid is.

@racher - www.amazon.com/Grown-Tiffany-D-Jackson/dp/0062840355

erbear, it 100% does not fall under the PTA as far as actual selection, but the PTA can advocate for anything we want (but I don't want to advocate for this clearly lol)

lemoncupcake, thanks! Yeah, I am not sure I can just say no, but also this is such a politically fraught issue and we it would blow up in the area we live in. I dont want to end up on Fox news

Even if what they were asking for wasn't unreasonable, I'm curious where they think the money to do this would come from.

[pixy0stix]

Not helpful, but it baffles me that people have the time and energy to do this but not to put into parenting their own child.

[janegold]

Only tangentially related, I remember my mom complaining to my middle school about having Christopher Pike books in the library. I loved those. I wonder how/whether the school addressed it.

[waverly]

Nov 21, 2024 10:47:11 GMT -5 AJL said:

As a former PTA president, this is how I would address it:

"Dictating school library policy is outside the scope of the role of the PTA. As a parent, you are welcome to take up this challenge with the school. As a PTA, we will be following the current position statement from the national PTA (linked here )."

End. 
Good luck!

I think I would do something like this while also suggesting they speak to the librarian and principal about restrictions on their own child’s library card. For example, my child A shall be restricted to books in the 5th grade /10 year old content level (even though he is in 6th grade).

[formerlyak]

I agree with everyone saying you listen and let him feel heard, but then say that unfortunately the National PTA has a very firm stance on PTA units not getting involved in book banning or book restricting discussions and they will need to bring it up with the administration. I would beware of responses like, "I understand your position" because something like that can be turned in to you agreeing with their stance.

They are also going to have to realize that there are challenges that will come with skipping your child a grade. My parents made the choice to have me switch schools instead of skipping a grade when they were told they were going to require I skip 7th grade because I was too far ahead. And social maturity was absolutely a consideration. I remember DS reading A House on Mango Street in 8th grade. There is definitely mature content in that book, but that's the book he chose from the list, so I re-read it with him and we discussed. If they are not happy with the content, maybe suggest that as an option so they can be sure he is understanding. They are going to need to face all his friends driving and dating and having later curfews as well. This is just a start and they need to find ways to navigate the younger age.

[karinothing]

Nov 21, 2024 10:47:11 GMT -5 AJL said:

As a former PTA president, this is how I would address it:

"Dictating school library policy is outside the scope of the role of the PTA. As a parent, you are welcome to take up this challenge with the school. As a PTA, we will be following the current position statement from the national PTA (linked here )."

End. 
Good luck!

Oh I like that. Thank you. 

[karinothing]

Nov 21, 2024 11:14:20 GMT -5 waverly said:

Nov 21, 2024 10:47:11 GMT -5 AJL said:

As a former PTA president, this is how I would address it:

"Dictating school library policy is outside the scope of the role of the PTA. As a parent, you are welcome to take up this challenge with the school. As a PTA, we will be following the current position statement from the national PTA (linked here )."

End. 
Good luck!

I think I would do something like this while also suggesting they speak to the librarian and principal about restrictions on their own child’s library card. For example, my child A shall be restricted to books in the 5th grade /10 year old content level (even though he is in 6th grade).

They have talked to the principal and librarian and the principal is basically like "we gave you the policy for book selection and challenging books, the matter is closed"

[karinothing]

formerlyak, I was thinking this. My kid is 13 and in 7th. He is at SUCH a different place maturity wise than he was when he was 10. There is a huge difference.

[waverly]

Nov 21, 2024 11:20:24 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Nov 21, 2024 11:14:20 GMT -5 waverly said:

I think I would do something like this while also suggesting they speak to the librarian and principal about restrictions on their own child’s library card. For example, my child A shall be restricted to books in the 5th grade /10 year old content level (even though he is in 6th grade).

They have talked to the principal and librarian and the principal is basically like "we gave you the policy for book selection and challenging books, the matter is closed"

Well they can also tell the school to not allow their kid to Check out school library books.

The thing is that an entire policy for all students doesn’t have to be made to accommodate 1 student.

[karinothing]

Nov 21, 2024 11:23:03 GMT -5 waverly said:

Nov 21, 2024 11:20:24 GMT -5 karinothing said:

They have talked to the principal and librarian and the principal is basically like "we gave you the policy for book selection and challenging books, the matter is closed"

Well they can also tell the school to not allow their kid to Check out school library books.

The thing is that an entire policy for all students doesn’t have to be made to accommodate 1 student.

Yes, the national PTA statement specifically says "affirm the importance of giving young people access to books and not allowing individual parents to decide what books are available to other people's children" 

[wawa]

Nov 21, 2024 11:14:20 GMT -5 waverly said:

Nov 21, 2024 10:47:11 GMT -5 AJL said:

As a former PTA president, this is how I would address it:

"Dictating school library policy is outside the scope of the role of the PTA. As a parent, you are welcome to take up this challenge with the school. As a PTA, we will be following the current position statement from the national PTA (linked here )."

End. 
Good luck!

I think I would do something like this while also suggesting they speak to the librarian and principal about restrictions on their own child’s library card. For example, my child A shall be restricted to books in the 5th grade /10 year old content level (even though he is in 6th grade).

Yeah, i don't know what your school's library set up is like, but for ours there's only one to two classes at a time in the media center, and the librarian/media teacher is available to help the kids find books and checks them out.  (we're title I, so we actually get a full time media specialist, unlike a lot of other schools.  I know we're "lucky" in that sense, but I hate that my neighbors have to be food insecure to get that funding!  They should have livable wages and everybody should have librarians.  But I digress.)  So if as a parent I were to go talk to Ms. S the Media specialist, or my kid's english teacher, about my kid's maturity level and ask them to help me keep her aimed at topics on her level, or at the least let me know if she checked out something iffy, i am 1000000000% sure she'd be able and willing to do that as long as the ask was reasonable.  Now maybe these parents are heated about this book making it into their kid's hands in the first place and don't think they should have to ask for that, or maybe your school is staffed in such a way that that's not feasible - but it's a thought.  Like, staff is there, they're good at their jobs - work with them instead of trying to restrict them.

Could also suggest that if their kid is really interested in topics they feel are above their maturity level, they can read them together so the parent can field big questions as they arise.  That's how I've handled having a precocious reader. I've read a ton of random YA over the past three years or so when Shorti's reading level really started getting out of sync with her maturity level just so we could discuss and I could stay on top of her going down any unexpected rabbit holes or not getting subtext of more complex themes.

[karinothing]

wawa, I think they are concerned about the book even being out there in the open to be seen by kids that are younger than 13. But I am not really sure. I do think our library only has one staff member, but also think kids can do self-check out of library books, so I don't know how much the library can monitor books and I think the principal doesn't want her staff wasting time with this to be honest.

[formerlyak]

karinothing, are they not going to let their kid go to a pubic library alone? It is pretty common for middle schoolers to go to the public library here because it is near school and of course they all look for the reference books that talk about sex. That kid is going to see things in books. They just happen to be aware of this one.

[waverly]

They are welcome to take it the school board or superintendent. I still maintain it isn’t a PTA issue.