I am fairly certain it is possible to make paper cranes and listen to a lecture at the same time. It is kind of like doodling, it is a way to keep your hands busy and not much else. I doubt it has anything to do with being challenged or not.
Also, I was that kid messing with paper and reading a book under my desk in school. I'm pretty sure it was because I had ADD and not because of anything to do with the content. Kind of how I'm typing this while watching TV because despite the fact that Revenge is a good show, I can't sit still and do one thing at a time
I am fairly certain it is possible to make paper cranes and listen to a lecture at the same time. It is kind of like doodling, it is a way to keep your hands busy and not much else. I doubt it has anything to do with being challenged or not.
Also, I was that kid messing with paper and reading a book under my desk in school. I'm pretty sure it was because I had ADD and not because of anything to do with the content. Kind of how I'm typing this while watching TV because despite the fact that Revenge is a good show, I can't sit still and do one thing at a time
Just admit it. Revenge is not challenging enough for you.
I'd probably ask her why he has enough free time to be doing this and why isn't he being challenged.
So once again, it's the teacher's fault.
ditto this. I like dexter's email. It's worded well, and as a parent, I would be concerned that my kid wasn't listening and would appreciate the heads up from the teacher.
I am fairly certain it is possible to make paper cranes and listen to a lecture at the same time. It is kind of like doodling, it is a way to keep your hands busy and not much else. I doubt it has anything to do with being challenged or not.
Also, I was that kid messing with paper and reading a book under my desk in school. I'm pretty sure it was because I had ADD and not because of anything to do with the content. Kind of how I'm typing this while watching TV because despite the fact that Revenge is a good show, I can't sit still and do one thing at a time
Just admit it. Revenge is not challenging enough for you.
The issue isn't the budget, its the disrespect. I'm a teacher and I would email home. If a parent flips at the teacher instead of getting upset at the child for not doing what he is told, there is a bigger issue there.
If I got that email, I would think it was ridiculous. I do think there is an issue that he's disobeying, but it's such an insignificant issue (and really, what's the harm?) that I wouldn't bother to address it, especially with his parents.
This is the part of teaching I hate...already here there are parents who have said that they would roll their eyes at this and think the teacher was over-reacting and then there are others that believe that the issue is the fact that the child did not follow the instructions given, which was to stop wasting the post it notes. We (teachers) literally can never make all parents happy all the time, so we do the best we can. Jonali intervened with the student first. The student didn't comply. She explained that if he didn't comply she would contact his parents. Now she has to follow through, that's the first rule of discipline: follow through on the steps you lay out.
The issue isn't that he is making oragami per se, it is that a) he is using classroom supplies incorrectly, b) he isn't following what the teacher asked him to do and c) he isn't doing what he should be doing, which is being actively engaged in the activity. All three of these are separate yet concerning issues. a) shows disrespect, as does b) and c) shows lack of engagement. Some parents will focus on the c) because they don't want to accept the a) and b), because they don't like to tackle disrespect. But the reality remains that the student in question is defying the teacher. The point isn't whether or not he agrees with the instruction or even whether the parent thinks it is fair. The teacher asked the child to do something that was reasonable, stop using post it notes to make origami. The child should have complied the first time.
And I totally agree with the idea that children need to be engaged 100% of the time. Your child isn't the only kid in the room. My job is to engage as many of them as possible as much of the time as I can. That does not equate to 100% of the children being engaged in an activity they love 100% of the time. It means learning to do stuff you don't love, because that's life.
I would be upset with my child that they were not following classroom rules. One of the reasons I love my kids school is because they are amazing at follow through for not following classroom rules. And the excuse of boredom for bad behavior??? No. Wouldn't fly for me as an excuse from my kid. It's such an obnoxious response and it sound like an excuse for not having good self control. No one needs to be entertained every second of the day. I tell this to my kids constantly.
My H was the same way. Sucks, but still not an appropriate response to the issue.
Life isn't always challenging. Work isn't always challenging. Sometimes you will be bored.
Yes, I think that one of the important functions of school is to teach you how to deal with boredom. No adult has someone chasing them around all the time making sure they feel challenged. We all have boring parts of our jobs we need to slog through. Practice makes perfect
If I had to guess, the kid doesn't have them all the time, he has them during an activity when they are supposed to be using them (I have used them before during language class, kids write their predictions or connections to texts read while listening to a story or reading a text and then they take them and put them on a larger chart, grouped together). So he wouldn't be participating in the activity without them. He could use just plain paper but the issue of the origami would likely remain.
I don't think Joenali is just giving them post-it notes in general, it would be for specific activities, but I could be wrong.
If I had to guess, the kid doesn't have them all the time, he has them during an activity when they are supposed to be using them (I have used them before during language class, kids write their predictions or connections to texts read while listening to a story or reading a text and then they take them and put them on a larger chart, grouped together). So he wouldn't be participating in the activity without them. He could use just plain paper but the issue of the origami would likely remain.
I don't think Joenali is just giving them post-it notes in general, it would be for specific activities, but I could be wrong.
In my mind, the best way to fix it is for the teacher to give him X amount of post its (the same number he needs for the project) and when those are all in cranes, he's out of luck, and doesn't get anymore.
I'd e-mail home about the situation, but then do that. I'm thinking as a parent I could get after my kid, but really, at the end of the day, unless I'm with him in the classroom, is it going to do any good?
If I received that email I would roll my eyes and delete it.
Unless you are going to be over-budget because of the origami post-its, continue addressing it in class.
And why can't you take them away from the kid until time to use them?
Seriously? He's throwing money out the window and has been told to stop multiple times. She shouldn't have to change her method of instructions by removing his post-its and remembering "oh, we're about to do X project/lesson, and Johnny might need his stickies, let me go get them!"
Even a 5 year old should learn to listen/behave in this situation. You're not teaching good behavior by removing the item.
If I had to guess, the kid doesn't have them all the time, he has them during an activity when they are supposed to be using them (I have used them before during language class, kids write their predictions or connections to texts read while listening to a story or reading a text and then they take them and put them on a larger chart, grouped together). So he wouldn't be participating in the activity without them. He could use just plain paper but the issue of the origami would likely remain.
I don't think Joenali is just giving them post-it notes in general, it would be for specific activities, but I could be wrong.
In my mind, the best way to fix it is for the teacher to give him X amount of post its (the same number he needs for the project) and when those are all in cranes, he's out of luck, and doesn't get anymore.
I'd e-mail home about the situation, but then do that. I'm thinking as a parent I could get after my kid, but really, at the end of the day, unless I'm with him in the classroom, is it going to do any good?
So personally I only give kids like 3 at a time anyways, if they want more, they ask for more. I always have kids to waste them but rarely repeatedly so, so it isn't something I have to follow-up on, it's just typical kid behaviour, when I remind them not to waste them they stop.
The point isn't that the parent needs to be in the room though. As teachers, we have a limited numbers of things we can do to get kids to comply with our requests. We provide choice/options, we give positive feedback, we explain our reasoning, etc...but eventually, if our strategies don't work, we need to contact home so that the parents are aware that their child is willfully disobeying us. Our goal isn't necessarily a change in behaviour (I have called home before full well knowing that the behaviour would continue), our goal is to ensure that the parent is aware of the behaviour. This way, when we comment on it in a report, or if it escalates to more significant settings, we have done our due diligence and maintained communication. So yes, it seems like a petty/silly issue, but we still should do something about it because if we don't, and it gets worse (the disobedience) and two months down the line we say "Well in September Billy was already being disrespectful and blah blah blah...)", a parent would easily come back with "Well nobody ever said anything in September".
ETA: I don't mean to imply that a change in behaviour isn't the goal, it is, but I recongnize that it won't always happen.
Post-it notes or not, the issue is the disrespect and disobeying going on. Sure, it's a relatively small issue now, but it might become larger issues as time goes on and the child gets older. At the HS level, I don't have the origami issue but I do have issues with some students going to off-topic websites when on the computers writing an essay or doing another assignment. My policy is: first time, a warning to get off the website. Second time: you're off the computer for at least that class period and I notify parents.
I also don't buy that all off-topic behavior is because of not being challenged. Sometimes, it's the opposite in fact. I have sat down with students who are constantly on off-topic things to find out what was going on. More than one admitted that the subject matter was difficult or challenging and they felt like they wouldn't be able to do it, so they just gave up without trying. Obviously after hearing this, I give them some one-on-one help or what not. But it isn't always just because stuff is too easy. Boredom happens whether you're 8 or 38. Sitting through some Grad school classes was boring, sitting through some faculty meetings can be boring, but I don't just start building origami cranes or surfing the web on my phone. It's a skill kids need to learn. Sometimes, you just have to be bored.
My son does this (makes origami yodas, cranes and boats) at school. I doubt his teacher has asked him to stop I'd probably ask her why he has enough free time to be doing this and why isn't he being challenged.
I usually lurk but, as a teacher, I have to address this because I am rolling my eyes SO HARD. It's the general parental attitude like this that makes a teacher's job miserable. Refusal to engage in an activity can sometimes be a sign of boredom, sure, but sometimes kids are simply disrespectful and don't listen to their teacher repeatedly asking them to stop doing something.
It's a teacher's job to provide the lesson and to engage kids in it, but students have a responsibility to do what they're told when they're told to do it. THEN, if they finish the activity perfectly with 20 minutes to spare, they can tell me they're bored and I'll unload my arsenal of more challenging material. This is what I tell their parents too, and thank heaven the parents are reasonable.
By the way, whenever a parent turns a problem around on a teacher who's doing the best they can, the teacher instantly learns the origin of the kid's attitude and entitlement.
By the way, whenever a parent turns a problem around on a teacher who's doing the best they can, the teacher instantly learns the origin of the kid's attitude and entitlement.
Ah yes, we commonly refer to this as 'the apple', because it rarely falls far from the tree.
Is it really so hard to believe a child couldn't be challenged in class?
If the kid has been told repeatedly to stop doing something and won't stop, then the problem is a lack of discipline.
I didn't feel challenged in a lot of classes when I was a kid, but I knew enough from my parents that I needed to obey the teacher or else I'd be in big trouble at home.
It's amazing what people blame on the teacher, when they should just go look in the mirror and blame themselves.
I was bored out of my mind in school and I always needed to be doing something, I HAD to move, I was doodling, reading something else, playing with my pencil, you name it. I had a teacher in grade school that every kid dreaded and most parents hated, but looking back he was one of the best teachers I ever had. When we were reading in our textbooks we were required to keep our hands in our lap, no elbows on our desks, no pencils in our hands, nothing. If he found you playing with something he would take it away until the end of the day. He would sit in front of the class room and watch everyone while they worked, and it didn't bother him to call them out when they weren't doing exactly what he told them to do. He didn't care if you cried and whined about it. By the second month of classes- it was rare that a student disobeyed him. He wasn't mean, he just wanted our full undivided attention. He was hardcore.
Post by Velvetshady on Oct 8, 2012 14:16:48 GMT -5
Sure, your little "specialchild" is just too smart, that's why they can't follow simple instructions and respect authority figures. Sure ^o)
One of the best things about not having kids, not having to deal with the idiocy of the "specialchild" parents raising little snots that don't think the normal world applies to them.
My little sister actually is freakishly smart and smashed every test they through at her in grades K-8. She might have been bored but she would NEVER not follow a teacher's instructions. Respect was one of the first things she learned.
If my mom had gotten that email, the kid would have gotten a serious "WTF is wrong with you?" talk. I guess it depends on whether or not they're helicopter parents.
Update: mon was cool and even wanted to give me more post-its. I said it wasn't necessary. Kid is going to come to class with his own notepad he can do whatever he wants with... At the appropriate time.
Update: mon was cool and even wanted to give me more post-its. I said it wasn't necessary. Kid is going to come to class with his own notepad he can do whatever he wants with... At the appropriate time.
I just read this post and was happy to see an update like this. Not all parents have God complexes and assume their child is perfect. Kudos to you for pursuing the issue and the mom for responding appropriately.
Update: mon was cool and even wanted to give me more post-its. I said it wasn't necessary. Kid is going to come to class with his own notepad he can do whatever he wants with... At the appropriate time.
I just read this post and was happy to see an update like this. Not all parents have God complexes and assume their child is perfect. Kudos to you for pursuing the issue and the mom for responding appropriately.
I'm really glad to hear this too. My faith in humanity has been restored a little bit.