I'd like to see international studies related to homework. Is it useless everywhere or not? If we only take the results of one country we wouldn't necessarily know if perhaps it's useless there b/c the curricula aren't challenging enough to warrant extra work outside of school hours.
ETA: Personally, I don't have an opinion on elementary homework. I think homework in HS is necessary, and in middle school as well - for a few classes at least. I had algebra, and biology (I think) in middle school and homework seems necessary IMO for those.
I'd like to see international studies related to homework. Is it useless everywhere or not? If we only take the results of one country we wouldn't necessarily know if perhaps it's useless there b/c the curricula aren't challenging enough to warrant extra work outside of school hours.
I have no idea about how useful it is, but Japan is infamous for their cram schools (they've exported Kumon to the States). Kids go home for an early dinner, then they're back at cram school for hours. They'll get home around 10, even the little kids. They may end up topping us academically, but it's at a huge cost IMO.
Korea also has cram schools, but I wasn't as familiar with that culture to know how much time they spent. I do know that at an English school that tried getting me to work there, my last class would have begun at 7p.
I'd like to see international studies related to homework. Is it useless everywhere or not? If we only take the results of one country we wouldn't necessarily know if perhaps it's useless there b/c the curricula aren't challenging enough to warrant extra work outside of school hours.
...or because the schooling they get between 8 am and 3 pm is effective enough that homework isn't needed.
This is the philosophy at my sons' school. When my older son started reading, my husband asked if we should do work at home, like flashcards. His teachers said "he learns all day at school. His time at home is to be with his family." You can imagine how happy that made me. I thnk I might have cried on the way home.
My son reads and does math at the same level as his cousin who is a grade ahead. Granted, he goes to private school and she goes to public, but he is in a Montessori school where he allowed to proceed at his own pace and he doesn't have any homework.
WHiel there is no homework, there is an expectation that we will read together at the house.
Post by GailGoldie on Oct 17, 2012 13:03:01 GMT -5
As a former teacher and a mom I can probably get on board with this. Between sports and clubs and jobs sometimes homework can just be too much and is there really a huge benefit to having it? I guess time will tell. I'm curious to see how it works out for France.
As a former teacher and a mom I can probably get on board with this. Between sports and clubs and jobs sometimes homework can just be too much and is there really a huge benefit to having it? I guess time will tell. I'm curious to see how it works out for France.
Yeah, in my ranting above I never eveb mentioned kids who have after school music lessons or sports, which are as important as academics.
As a former teacher and a mom I can probably get on board with this. Between sports and clubs and jobs sometimes homework can just be too much and is there really a huge benefit to having it? I guess time will tell. I'm curious to see how it works out for France.
Yeah, in my ranting above I never eveb mentioned kids who have after school music lessons or sports, which are as important as academics.
growing up we had musical instrument lessons in our elementary school starting at 3rd grade. We don't where I live now, so we do all our extras after school that used to be included in the day like music lessons and mandarin
I taught grade 8 for the last 5 years and I was at essentially a 'no homework school'. Sometimes kids had to do work they hadn't finished but it was rare. Now I am at a new school and the principal wants us to give homework, so I give some, but never more than 20 minutes (I teach grade 5 this year).
I have lots of conflicting ideas about homework but this is the most compelling (to me at least): in most cases, the kids who actually DO the homework don't NEED the reinforcement. The kids who end up NOT doing it are the ones who need the reinforcement.
Homework needs to have a purpose. Children need to be able to complete the work (meaning I don't send home work that I know a kid can't at least try and do most of on their own) and it has to meaningful (it needs to add to their base of learning).
Also, memorizing multiplication time tables doesn't mean shit. I know tons of kids who have them memorized but don't actually know what the act of multiplying is. Here's the test: Ask them a word problem that involves division. If they can't do that (but they know their times tables), they don't really 'get' multiplication. It's all about grouping and thinking in a multiplicative way rather than an additive way. Learning the 'table' in a rote fashion does nothing to improve number sense.
Post by bluestreet on Oct 17, 2012 16:36:33 GMT -5
My eldest started having 1-2 hours of HW everyday starting in 2nd grade. I'd get home at 5:30, dinner, and then spend an often painful 2 hours trying to maintain her focus. Bonding my butt. It sucked! It made being a WOHM suck rocks. I've got a lot of friends who want to SAH until their kids are in elementary school and then go work full-time, as if things get easier. But the end of the day routine is rough, ime, and I've found the stress to be greater now that I have two kids in elementary. My kids's homework was a huge factor in my decision to try to figure out how to work part-time.
I think no homework and that summers should be shortened to 3 weeks. I'm in the minority, but I find the break really hurts my kids's progress and the first month is relearning last year's material, even though I try to get them to do workbooks in the summer and read every day.
Post by mominatrix on Oct 17, 2012 17:00:21 GMT -5
I'd be horrified by "academic" homework in kindergarten.
So far this school year, DD has had two "homework assignments, both of which I loved:
One was to fill a ziploc bag with natural stuff - - leaves, twigs, pine cones, etc, to be used to make a project the next day.
The other, related to a unit the class has been doing about the properties of wood (will it float? will it absorb water?) was to go on a "wood hunt" around our house. What's made of wood? Is it painted? Can we guess what kind of wood it is (they've learned several different kinds, it's cool)? Is it plywood or particle board (they made versions of both in class)? Etc. It was really fun - - we didn't do anywhere near the whole house, just a few items from the living room, but it was still cool for her to spot all the different wood things.
I think no homework and that summers should be shortened to 3 weeks. I'm in the minority, but I find the break really hurts my kids's progress and the first month is relearning last year's material, even though I try to get them to do workbooks in the summer and read every day.
ITA. DD's preschool (which goes through grade 2) didn't take a summer break at all. The K-2 kids had fridays off (they have an "enrichment" program on fridays), and there are one and two week breaks through out the year. It was delightful, and (I think) one of the big reasons why the kids there seemed to be thriving academically.
I'd be horrified by "academic" homework in kindergarten.
So far this school year, DD has had two "homework assignments, both of which I loved:
One was to fill a ziploc bag with natural stuff - - leaves, twigs, pine cones, etc, to be used to make a project the next day.
The other, related to a unit the class has been doing about the properties of wood (will it float? will it absorb water?) was to go on a "wood hunt" around our house. What's made of wood? Is it painted? Can we guess what kind of wood it is (they've learned several different kinds, it's cool)? Is it plywood or particle board (they made versions of both in class)? Etc. It was really fun - - we didn't do anywhere near the whole house, just a few items from the living room, but it was still cool for her to spot all the different wood things.
My eldest attends a public school in Austin, and they were hell-bent on getting the kids reading in kindergarten. This meant HW 3 times a week, at least 45 minutes worth. And not always fun, like you're describing. I've been told this is motivated by the desire to get kids to do well on standardized tests.
I'd be horrified by "academic" homework in kindergarten.
So far this school year, DD has had two "homework assignments, both of which I loved:
One was to fill a ziploc bag with natural stuff - - leaves, twigs, pine cones, etc, to be used to make a project the next day.
The other, related to a unit the class has been doing about the properties of wood (will it float? will it absorb water?) was to go on a "wood hunt" around our house. What's made of wood? Is it painted? Can we guess what kind of wood it is (they've learned several different kinds, it's cool)? Is it plywood or particle board (they made versions of both in class)? Etc. It was really fun - - we didn't do anywhere near the whole house, just a few items from the living room, but it was still cool for her to spot all the different wood things.
My eldest attends a public school in Austin, and they were hell-bent on getting the kids reading in kindergarten. This meant HW 3 times a week, at least 45 minutes worth. And not always fun, like you're describing. I've been told this is motivated by the desire to get kids to do well on standardized tests.
Texas is all about the test. We are also 47th in the nation on per capita spending for education, so that shows what the state's priorities are.
My kids are currently in a program that goes year round. I pull them out in the summer for a 3 week trip back east and other than that they love it. I think this really attributed to the click my older son had with reading and time management (getting his work done in time to get free play and art) this year.
I'd be horrified by "academic" homework in kindergarten.
So far this school year, DD has had two "homework assignments, both of which I loved:
One was to fill a ziploc bag with natural stuff - - leaves, twigs, pine cones, etc, to be used to make a project the next day.
The other, related to a unit the class has been doing about the properties of wood (will it float? will it absorb water?) was to go on a "wood hunt" around our house. What's made of wood? Is it painted? Can we guess what kind of wood it is (they've learned several different kinds, it's cool)? Is it plywood or particle board (they made versions of both in class)? Etc. It was really fun - - we didn't do anywhere near the whole house, just a few items from the living room, but it was still cool for her to spot all the different wood things.
My eldest attends a public school in Austin, and they were hell-bent on getting the kids reading in kindergarten. This meant HW 3 times a week, at least 45 minutes worth. And not always fun, like you're describing. I've been told this is motivated by the desire to get kids to do well on standardized tests.
*shivers* DD is working on reading, but is doing as much at home as at school, and is really the one seeking out how to read. It's kind of fun to work with her, but it's just about sitting with her with books, talking about the words we see.
She goes to a public (magnet) school in Seattle, so it's not like she's not in that world. They just had their early-in-the-school-year testing to help determine where they are, and my understanding is that she'll be tested once or twice again this year.
Post by bluestreet on Oct 17, 2012 17:34:30 GMT -5
Mominatrix- Yeah, my eldest started *hating* reading and falling behind. In 2nd grade I had to bring her back down to the level of "Frog and Toad" just so she could enjoy reading again. It worked like a charm, and she jumped back to her grade level within a couple of months. Plus we transferred her into a less "highly rated" school to one that is more laid-back but still not crap.
heightsyankee- my short-term solution is to have a mini-home school during the summer of an hour a day of math and an hour a day of reading. We only meet the mark half the week, but it makes the beginning of the year so much better.
This push towards earlier and earlier reading is not developmentally appropriate. The school psychologist told me as much.
It drives me crazy that our school brags about what great readers we have in k-2 (usually most kids are in top 90% of national norms) but suddenly by about 4-5 grade we drop to below average
And no study will ever convince me my 8th graders (so pre high school) do not benifit from homework. Its illogical.
a) we don't have time to do every single practice problem they need to do in class. We just don't. If I cut out homework, we'd get 2/3 of the way through the material in a year.
b) Class time for us is about collaboration, which is important and great. But they also need to try it on their own. If they don't get that chance, they don't get to see where they personally make mistakes until the test. And that's just not fair.
My goal is 15 minutes 3 nights a week. They have 5 academic subjects. So if all 5 of us do it, that's not that much. Plus, our kids have a 1.25 hours worth of study hall/extra help time built into the each school week. So they are able to get a huge chunk done then.
And no study will ever convince me my 8th graders (so pre high school) do not benifit from homework. Its illogical.
a) we don't have time to do every single practice problem they need to do in class. We just don't. If I cut out homework, we'd get 2/3 of the way through the material in a year.
b) Class time for us is about collaboration, which is important and great. But they also need to try it on their own. If they don't get that chance, they don't get to see where they personally make mistakes until the test. And that's just not fair.
My goal is 15 minutes 3 nights a week. They have 5 academic subjects. So if all 5 of us do it, that's not that much. Plus, our kids have a 1.25 hours worth of study hall/extra help time built into the each school week. So they are able to get a huge chunk done then.
I don't think any of us are saying homework isn't beneficial at the higher grades. We are all bitching and moaning about elementary school
And no study will ever convince me my 8th graders (so pre high school) do not benifit from homework. Its illogical.
a) we don't have time to do every single practice problem they need to do in class. We just don't. If I cut out homework, we'd get 2/3 of the way through the material in a year.
b) Class time for us is about collaboration, which is important and great. But they also need to try it on their own. If they don't get that chance, they don't get to see where they personally make mistakes until the test. And that's just not fair.
My goal is 15 minutes 3 nights a week. They have 5 academic subjects. So if all 5 of us do it, that's not that much. Plus, our kids have a 1.25 hours worth of study hall/extra help time built into the each school week. So they are able to get a huge chunk done then.
I'm OK with homework for middle and high school, but not for elementary school. And certainly not for kindergarten :-|
Someone said pre-high school. I'll go back and look. Maybe I misread it.
Our lower division has homework that allows them to pursue interests but has them getting parents involved. I know in 4th grade, they have to read 20 minutes a night (book of their choice). The rest is sparatic and varied. One example would be to write a paragraph about something fun they did over the weekend. It allows them to do something of interest to them, but then reflect on it with their parents. One of the kindergarten assignments (which are also rare but happen) this week was "walk around your house and find all the numbers you can. Be read to share what you found with the class. " My colleagues with 5 year olds said it was a fun way to talk about numbers and such. It was a scavenger hunt, basically. And the kids came back to school with that information and were able to talk about it. Easy. Not time consuming, but also gets parents involved in a simple way in their kids education.
. A 1st grader can have 1-2 hours/night of homework.
Where on earth are first graders doing 1-2 hours of homework each night? I would hope it's a unity horse that that's crazy.
I have friends in Chicago who are dealing with an hour of homework each night for their FIVE year olds. It's awful. One friend's kid cried for an hour every single night for a week straight.
I think that homework has gotten out of control for a lot of schools. I might support the ban, especially in low income areas where children don't have access to computers, quality libraries, after-school tutoring, etc. I like the idea of 30 minutes of reading instead for elementary school kids.
And no study will ever convince me my 8th graders (so pre high school) do not benifit from homework. Its illogical.
a) we don't have time to do every single practice problem they need to do in class. We just don't. If I cut out homework, we'd get 2/3 of the way through the material in a year.
b) Class time for us is about collaboration, which is important and great. But they also need to try it on their own. If they don't get that chance, they don't get to see where they personally make mistakes until the test. And that's just not fair.
My goal is 15 minutes 3 nights a week. They have 5 academic subjects. So if all 5 of us do it, that's not that much. Plus, our kids have a 1.25 hours worth of study hall/extra help time built into the each school week. So they are able to get a huge chunk done then.
I don't think any of us are saying homework isn't beneficial at the higher grades. We are all bitching and moaning about elementary school
Where on earth are first graders doing 1-2 hours of homework each night? I would hope it's a unity horse that that's crazy.
I have friends in Chicago who are dealing with an hour of homework each night for their FIVE year olds. It's awful. One friend's kid cried for an hour every single night for a week straight.
This actually makes me very sad for those children. That's ridiculous and, frankly, cruel. What kind of school are the kids in?
I have friends in Chicago who are dealing with an hour of homework each night for their FIVE year olds. It's awful. One friend's kid cried for an hour every single night for a week straight.
This actually makes me very sad for those children. That's ridiculous and, frankly, cruel. What kind of school are the kids in?
I've been really impressed with Jackson's school. I wasn't sure what to expect based on what I know about education in TN, and the importance of the test, etc. There doesn't seem to be a huge focus on the kids reading - it seems like the kids are working at their own pace.
Our district moved to full day K this year, too, and they just seem to be doing such a good job. Jackson was reading before K, but he is on the older end (he turned 6 at the beginning of this month and our cut off is in September). He enjoys it, but we really just followed his lead. He asked to learn to read, likes to read, so we just did what we could with him at home. Anyway, I've been really, really impressed with how they have the kids working at their own pace for reading skills. From what I've seen - Jackson, who his teacher described as being where they want them to be at the start of 1st, is not bored and loves what he is doing - and the kids who had very little exposure to letters before K are engaged and learning, too. Oh and there are like 10-12 Ks in his school, but his teacher and 3 others have the kids move rooms for reading groups, which is kind of cool. I think it's new this year because they have the full day to work with.
I do think some of the K teachers give homework, but not Jackson's.
grace gets hit with a LOT of work. not just class homework.
she's having a hard time reading so she's in their reading program. so she gets pulled out of her regular class for a period to work on reading. then she brings reading home with her. then she has to make up the classwork she didn't do in her class because she was in the reading program. so ironically, the kids who are having a hard time keeping up with their peers are actually getting more work to do which just frusturates the shit out of her which is leading to more pushback on getting the homework done.
on top of that, she's in aftercare. she does "do" her homework but they don't go over it. she may write 6 sentences but they're never right and they always require at least 20 minutes of correction. we don't get home until after 6 and her bedtime is at 8 and we have to squeeze in making/eating dinner in there somehow.
i'm not saying no homework is the answer. this is just a much-needed vent. so to the OP, i say Thank You.
(FWIW, she's finally clicking with the reading thing. yay!)
I missed this early. I just wanted to say that I was adamant that DS2 not be given extra work to do at home to make up for his time outside of the classroom as part of his IEP.
Post by SusanBAnthony on Oct 17, 2012 20:32:59 GMT -5
I agree with everyone that elementary homework should be short and sweet or non-existent.
DS is in pre-K this year and gets 2 tings a week: 1 is to bring an item that starts with the letter of the week, which is quick, fun, and easy. The other is a letter worksheet for the letter of the week. It consists of writing the letter about 5 times, the end. It is optional. Preschool homework at all seems crazy, but the find-an-object thing is fun for DS, and I would be sitting down and writing with him anyway, so I guess I don't care. OTOH he loves writing, and if I had a kid who hated it, I wouldn't force it.
About memorizing multiplication tables, well, yes they do need to memorize them. The idea that it needs to happen at home and not in the classroom is exactly what the French are getting at- if you expect this core competency to be learned at home you are short-changing all the kids with crap parents.
Also, COPZ GBCN'ed? How did I miss this, and why? Sadness.
grace gets hit with a LOT of work. not just class homework.
she's having a hard time reading so she's in their reading program. so she gets pulled out of her regular class for a period to work on reading. then she brings reading home with her. then she has to make up the classwork she didn't do in her class because she was in the reading program. so ironically, the kids who are having a hard time keeping up with their peers are actually getting more work to do which just frusturates the shit out of her which is leading to more pushback on getting the homework done.
on top of that, she's in aftercare. she does "do" her homework but they don't go over it. she may write 6 sentences but they're never right and they always require at least 20 minutes of correction. we don't get home until after 6 and her bedtime is at 8 and we have to squeeze in making/eating dinner in there somehow.
i'm not saying no homework is the answer. this is just a much-needed vent. so to the OP, i say Thank You.
(FWIW, she's finally clicking with the reading thing. yay!)
I missed this early. I just wanted to say that I was adamant that DS2 not be given extra work to do at home to make up for his time outside of the classroom as part of his IEP.
her teacher isn't insisting that she do the work at home. it gets sent home with a "try at home" note. we just don't want her to not learn what they're doing in glass because she's learning in the reading program, KWIM?
I agree with everyone that elementary homework should be short and sweet or non-existent.
DS is in pre-K this year and gets 2 tings a week: 1 is to bring an item that starts with the letter of the week, which is quick, fun, and easy. The other is a letter worksheet for the letter of the week. It consists of writing the letter about 5 times, the end. It is optional. Preschool homework at all seems crazy, but the find-an-object thing is fun for DS, and I would be sitting down and writing with him anyway, so I guess I don't care. OTOH he loves writing, and if I had a kid who hated it, I wouldn't force it.
About memorizing multiplication tables, well, yes they do need to memorize them. The idea that it needs to happen at home and not in the classroom is exactly what the French are getting at- if you expect this core competency to be learned at home you are short-changing all the kids with crap parents.
Also, COPZ GBCN'ed? How did I miss this, and why? Sadness.
Great! Your kid can do the homework without frustration. Also, the worksheet will get tossed when it gets turned in. Wasteful! And can't you have him write letters without the teacher sending stuff home?
I agree with everyone that elementary homework should be short and sweet or non-existent.
DS is in pre-K this year and gets 2 tings a week: 1 is to bring an item that starts with the letter of the week, which is quick, fun, and easy. The other is a letter worksheet for the letter of the week. It consists of writing the letter about 5 times, the end. It is optional. Preschool homework at all seems crazy, but the find-an-object thing is fun for DS, and I would be sitting down and writing with him anyway, so I guess I don't care. OTOH he loves writing, and if I had a kid who hated it, I wouldn't force it.
About memorizing multiplication tables, well, yes they do need to memorize them. The idea that it needs to happen at home and not in the classroom is exactly what the French are getting at- if you expect this core competency to be learned at home you are short-changing all the kids with crap parents.
Also, COPZ GBCN'ed? How did I miss this, and why? Sadness.
Great! Your kid can do the homework without frustration. Also, the worksheet will get tossed when it gets turned in. Wasteful! And can't you have him write letters without the teacher sending stuff home?
I am not sure quite what your point is. I just said I was in favor of little to no homework in elementary. I said the pre-k homework was optional (she doesn't send the sheets home if you tell her you don't want them). Whether I was sitting down and writing with him or not, a piece of paper would get used and throw away. The teacher returns them back home, and I keep a few to save to compare to next year, and recycle the rest. What is the deal with your tone?