Honestly, this line of logic pisses me off. I don't care if she sucked dick and swallowed for her part-time after hours job, if she's told to tape down her dayum breasts, then that's a problem. Irrespective of her quest for reality tv fame, tape down her breasts? Really? Really?
I have big breasts. Right now, as I'm nursing these shits are hanging out in a 34G bra. A plain t-shirt is going to draw attention. So unless I'm wearing a shapeless azz mumu or a burqua, then mofos gone stare at my breasts.
To just brush off her story because you don't like Allred or that she seems to be a trollop is ri-dayum-diculous.
Now, if you say, well does she have a picture of what she was wearing? Then fine. But, well that bitch ain't credible 'cuz she's a reality tv wanna be is asinine. Yep, I said it.
There are two separate points -
1. Her employer being a jerk about her clothing is not gender or religious discrimination. You can fire people because they don't project the image you want them to.
2. Unless there is proof, it's he said she said with regards to the tape your breasts comment. So her credibility does matter and I don't think she has that much of it. She is looking for fame and can't spell the word "fashion" - hell, maybe they saw that and then decided to fire her for being incompetent and an eyesore.
Does that mean I don't think the employer is a jerk if they said that? No, if it's true, they are jerks. It's wrong/ridiculous/whatever. It's not illegal.
But whatever, she will get some time in the spotlight and probably some money, so it's not a total loss.
Did they tell a male co-worker to control his junk?
Women used to use cloths or bandages (ace type) to wrap their breasts, btw.
I don't give a rat's right ass what you use to tape down breasts. She's a fucking data entry clerk, not a runway model.
That was in response to the "what would you use to tape down your breasts?" Not saying it was appropriate and I don't give a rat's ass either, I'm just saying that's what they'd use, not duct tape. Dissemination of information.
I chuckled at "control his junk." Really, I know it's not a chuckle offense when holding the two side-by-side but if Long Dong Silver or whomever was free-balling and bouncing against his knee I'd have to wonder if they'd ask the same thing.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
Yeah I don't care if people look but I do think an employer has the right to tell an employee that their dress is improper and I don't think it's odd to say one girl's tee is fine but another's isn't. I've seen plenty of skanks in too tight tees and plenty of girls in not too tight tees to be twirked off by the idea that she was dressing inappropriately.
And Gloria is known for sensationalizing accounts and representing liars with outrageous tales, like the skank ass who sued Rob Lowe once upon a time. I'm pretty sure it was determined that she was a lying liar who lies so I dont' think I'm out of line in wondering if the taping down comment is actually true.
Also, does anyone remember Evee and her "but I just sitting here wearing the same pencil skirt and blouse everyone else is" tale on F&B?
Because that's what I'm thinking of. I've seen plenty of women turn a generic tee and jeans situation into something that's the opposite of work appropriate.
Oh and then there was that chick last year who was fired for being too sexy? Remember her? "But it's just a wrap dress!" Uhm yeeeaaaah.
mrsbpo - you need to google Kevin Hart's Laugh at My Pain about his dad. If could access YouTube I'd put it on here. But essentially, Hart's dad didn't like to wear underwear and his junk was always lose. At a spelling bee, he told the other parents "What's wrong you ain't never seen a long DICK?! You gone learn today! Hey son! Spell Long Dick!!!"
But seriously, it is not ok to tell a woman to tape down her breasts. If a mofo said that shit to me, trust, I'd call Gloria's ass too.
Also, does anyone remember Evee and her "but I just sitting here wearing the same pencil skirt and blouse everyone else is" tale on F&B?
Because that's what I'm thinking of. I've seen plenty of women turn a generic tee and jeans situation into something that's the opposite of work appropriate.
Oh and then there was that chick last year who was fired for being too sexy? Remember her? "But it's just a wrap dress!" Uhm yeeeaaaah.
I remember the first one! She said something about how a taller woman couldn't wear the skirt b/c it would become inappropriately short for work, but couldn't translate the same line of thought to her tops.
Habbsies - to me, the problem is that some folks don't know that shit ain't right. When shopping with my daughter, I tell her if something is appropriate or not. When I leave home, I double check to make sure the sisters are properly contained. BUT, I had a mother who explained appropriate dress.
The fashion youngsters get now, everything is too tight. I see women in ill-fitting pants every dang day. This is why some business go thru great lengths to have workshops SHOWING employees what is considered proper dress. It doesn't seem that happened in this case.
Some folks don't know until someone pointed it out. Remember Evee was pretty clueless until we said something about it.
Nitaw, the chuckle is for the purposes of the board. I did chuckle at someone coming up to a guy and saying "hey, why don't you wrap it up because it's swinging." Chuckling at the imagery and imagination, not the event - because we're on a discussion board. If it was in the real world and an employer told an employee to control his junk because it was a distraction, I would be offended and I (honestly) would be among the first to volunteer as his witness (if I was in fact a witness to the statement). I haven't seen the KH video but my imagination has his dad shouting it out for the world to hear and I can just imagine the mortification of KH and every parent in the room at his dad's inappropriateness. I would be cringing for the poor kid but would totally waffle on calling out dad for fear it would prolong the encounter rather than shut him up and sit him down so people aren't looking at him and wondering who his poor kid is. Shush maybe, but call him out, I don't know. Truly. But that's only what is running through my head and not reality.
FWIW, I also shopped with and talked to my kids about appropriate dress. They know how to dress for interviews, jobs and the real world. Judging by some of the people I worked with in the past, I wish more parents did.
I honestly think this is a case where she *thinks* she was dressed appropriately and like everyone else because hey they were jeans and a dress, but most likely she didn't look at everyone else to see what was *acceptable* jeans and t-shirt or dress. (What she was wearing might be acceptable in many workplaces, but not so appropriate for a very conservative one and she just wasn't getting the clue. "This is me, this is who I am and how I dress" doesn't always work.)
GA would be the last person I would call, but then I have access to a number of L&E attorneys who *aren't* publicity whores and I wouldn't try the case in the media. Litigation is ugly and dirty and so is publicity surrounding it.
Mrsbpo - Just google Kevin Hart. He's a comedian and that bit about his dad is hilarious. I should have put a note that it was part of a comedy routine.
Ya'll can not like Gloria, but ole girl gets her clients paid. Locally, there was a case about a woman who killed her husband and got off. The case seemed pretty cut and dry and we just knew ole girl was going to jail. When she got off, my sister called me and said: "If I EVER commit a crime, spare no expense and hire Attorney X." That's how I feel about Gloria.
Also, does anyone remember Evee and her "but I just sitting here wearing the same pencil skirt and blouse everyone else is" tale on F&B?
Because that's what I'm thinking of. I've seen plenty of women turn a generic tee and jeans situation into something that's the opposite of work appropriate.
Oh and then there was that chick last year who was fired for being too sexy? Remember her? "But it's just a wrap dress!" Uhm yeeeaaaah.
Didn't that wrap dress thing turn into a 7 pager or some shit? It was a debate about whether or not or how or if big breasted women could wear the same clothing as flatter-chested women. Or if it would look obscene. My vote was to at least wear a cami under that. My cleavage goes halfway to my collar bone, so yeah, "I was just wearing a t-shirt" means nothing. My vote is that she was dressed inappropriately. And working for Orthodox Jews in Manhattan? You'd better have a pretty modest wardrobe.
That said, I agree with Nitaw that her proclivities have nothing to do with whether or not she was harassed.
I'm with Mery re: the proclivities but being repeatedly told to dress more appropriately isn't harassment if she's not dressing more appropriately. Disciplinary action isn't always harassment. And one purported comment out of multiple times addressing the issue doesn't necessarily contitute harassment either.
i am assuming she THINKS she was dressed like everyone else, but in reality was showing more than other people would show if they were dressing "business casual".
and seriously? why are all of these people from NJ? pretty soon i'm just going to tell people i was born in NY and call it a day.
Yeah, if I hadn't had to deal with this exact same situation with my little sister before, I'd wonder if it was possible. It actually is totally possible for someone to look like they're headed to a bar with their friends and for that person to think that they are killing the business casual look. Totally possible.
I'm with Mery re: the proclivities but being repeatedly told to dress more appropriately isn't harassment if she's not dressing more appropriately. Disciplinary action isn't always harassment. And one purported comment out of multiple times addressing the issue doesn't necessarily contitute harassment either.
But did you SHOW me what was more appropriate? If you leave it to interpretation, how the heck am I supposed to know what YOU deem more appropriate. Example: the shirt I have one now is what I would consider appropriate. BUT, you could view it as provocative because the material seems too clingy around my ample bosom. Yet, the shirt is not fitted in the waist, and there is some give to the material.
If you tell me dress more appropriate and my shirt wasn't appropriate, I would be hella confused. And if you tell me dress like everyone else, I'd look around and see several different people all wearing different things.
The employer failed here. They didn't adequately address her when asked what was appropriate. Do more than say buy a sweater, bring Stacy and Clinto up in the office and show me what is different. Modesty to my uber conservative co-worker is one thing compared to modesty for me. To her, my pants are inappropriate.
Again, this is WHY you as an employer need a specific policy outlining these things. When you leave it open to the other person's interpretation, you set your company up for failure when fighting these allegations.
But did you SHOW me what was more appropriate? If you leave it to interpretation, how the heck am I supposed to know what YOU deem more appropriate. Example: the shirt I have one now is what I would consider appropriate. BUT, you could view it as provocative because the material seems too clingy around my ample bosom. Yet, the shirt is not fitted in the waist, and there is some give to the material.
If you tell me dress more appropriate and my shirt wasn't appropriate, I would be hella confused. And if you tell me dress like everyone else, I'd look around and see several different people all wearing different things.
The employer failed here. They didn't adequately address her when asked what was appropriate. Do more than say buy a sweater, bring Stacy and Clinto up in the office and show me what is different. Modesty to my uber conservative co-worker is one thing compared to modesty for me. To her, my pants are inappropriate.
Again, this is WHY you as an employer need a specific policy outlining these things. When you leave it open to the other person's interpretation, you set your company up for failure when fighting these allegations.
And this is why we need corporate L&E attorneys and HR to train and not leave things up to the company owners to interpret, to wave their hands around and just say "figure it out and do it." Time to get someone in to do some training over at Native.
(But if she looked around, I'm pretty sure she could have gotten an idea that her skirts shouldn't be clingy, snug or showing arms or above the knees. Particularly if that sign was posted on or near her place of employment. It's an orthodox establishment and she should hopefully have the common sense to interpret she should dress according to, or closer to, orthodox tenets, even if they sell underwear with hearts on the front or that say HOT across the rear.)
She has a case in that she was singled out for harassment and humiliation by the employer. Being dressed in a robe by her supervisor instead of being sent home to dress herself according to the policy was perceived as humiliating treatment by the employee. EEOC laws protect employees, not employers. If an employee perceives she was being humiliated and subjected to a hostile work environment, that's good enough for EEOC. She will win.
There's no law requiring employers to have a dress code (clearly defined and written or not) or to provide employees with warnings specifying how they are not acting appropriately. It's just smart business to provide these things. The law protects people from harassment and hostility in the work place. Check out the Sexual Harassment and Violence in the Workplace policies posted in your HR office. These policies don't just cover ass grabbing and getting slapped in the face by your boss.
I would actually consider it assault if another person attempted to put hands on me and dress me. Imagine your boss trying to put a robe on you (even tying up the belt for you) instead of handing it to you and asking you to put it on. My work policy says you'll be sent home on your own time to change.
She was a temp. If I was temping I'd be a heckuvalot more circumspect in my attire than showing up in jeans and sheer dresses. As a temp, can't the employer request that she be replaced with another employee who is also qualified and will follow the dress code?
I saw another website when googling "orthodox jew lingerie" to see if I could find pics and one showed this sign with the article:
If this is in fact at or near where she was working and is the expectation of the (Orthodox Jew) employer I don't think that jeans or sheer overlay blouses or tight skirts fit the description of "modest." Methinks she is slightly delusional in her idea of "office appropriate attire."
This sign is probably not near or where this woman works. This sign and many like them are in Israel where there is a very real problem with the Haredi assuming the role of "modesty police." Violent action has been taken against women, secular or practicing Jews, who are wearing clothes deemed to be immodest.
That being said, regardless of her employer's religious affiliation, the comments about her breasts would constitute sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment. Being a very religious Orthodox Jew is not a license to break the law (or be a douche bag.)