It said she had $125k, but not that it all came from the MSW--could be a portion was undergrad.
That said - if she can get hired by the VA she stands a chance at making a livable salary. LCSW's usually start at a GS 11 (around 58k or more depending on region).
They do get paid well, but I know the ones around here are getting 300+ resumes for each open position, so they're really hard to come by, especially if you don't have lots of previous hospital SW experience.
I know several people who have 100k+ in debt from MSWs. Most of them are banking on 10 year loan forgiveness. This poster is in a bad situation though, and obviously many of the things she wants to happen are not going to happen.
I could see having that much in debt if you went to private undergrad and grad school, not smart for a social work degree, not at all practical unless you have lots of scholarships.
one of my favorite co-workers just left to go work at the VA I miss her so but am really happy for her. I commuted 45 minutes each way for my unpaid internship at the VA, good experience and definitely helped me land my hospital social work job for which there were many qualified applicants.
True, but at her level of debt wouldn't it make more sense to extend the payments past 10 years so she can afford food/rent each month? I don't fully understand the intricacies of the program, so I could be completely wrong.
Yes, but my understanding is it's an either/or. One can't do IBR and student loan forgiveness. They either do IBR and pay whatever rate is determined, or they pay the full amount due every month for 10 years and then get the balance forgiven.
My understanding is the opposite of yours.
I believe kari is doing SL forgiveness for working for the feds, and I am pretty sure she does IBR because she has to do married filing separate to keep her income separate from her H's.
So you can do IBR, pay what you can afford, and then the balance is forgiven after 10 years IF you work in public service.
I don't even know where to start, but A LOT of this stress is self-induced. She doesn't NEED to take many months off when the baby is born and her husband doesn't NEED to stop working to take the bar.
Yes, but my understanding is it's an either/or. One can't do IBR and student loan forgiveness. They either do IBR and pay whatever rate is determined, or they pay the full amount due every month for 10 years and then get the balance forgiven.
My understanding is the opposite of yours.
I believe kari is doing SL forgiveness for working for the feds, and I am pretty sure she does IBR because she has to do married filing separate to keep her income separate from her H's.
So you can do IBR, pay what you can afford, and then the balance is forgiven after 10 years IF you work in public service.
That's really interesting. My friend was told the exact opposite from her HR. I wonder if it's agency specific?
I believe kari is doing SL forgiveness for working for the feds, and I am pretty sure she does IBR because she has to do married filing separate to keep her income separate from her H's.
So you can do IBR, pay what you can afford, and then the balance is forgiven after 10 years IF you work in public service.
That's really interesting. My friend was told the exact opposite from her HR. I wonder if it's agency specific?
I'm fairly certain LT is correct. I called about 4-5 years ago to see if I wanted to do the loan forgiveness program and they told me my payment would almost double. I am lucky that I'm on a fixed payment - 434 dollars a month on about $70k in federal loans (they were likely $80k at the time). I was making $42k that year and $434 was just about all I could afford. I did the math and if I doubled my payment my loan (going to IBR) my loan would be basically paid off in 10 years anyway. It made no sense. But it's really loan/interest rate/income specific.
I graduated from law school in 2006 and probably at least 75% of my class did not work during the summer leading up to taking the bar. The few that did were those who had jobs during school in the city where our school was, and they just continued to pick up hours probably through early July. Then most of us started working in late August/early September. I took a second bar the next February and I only took off about a week to study for that, but it was an easier state, my second one and I only had to take the essay portion.
It is incredibly important for their situation that he pass the bar and he get a job lined up. I would place importance on him working and making money while studying for the bar much lower on the priority list. He needs to spend all of his waking hours studying and getting his resume out there so he has something (maybe not a legal job) lined up to start the day after the bar. I think it would be fairly devastating for their situation if he failed the first go round and has to wait another 6 months to take it and 8-9 to find out if he passed.
That's really interesting. My friend was told the exact opposite from her HR. I wonder if it's agency specific?
I'm fairly certain LT is correct. I called about 4-5 years ago to see if I wanted to do the loan forgiveness program and they told me my payment would almost double. I am lucky that I'm on a fixed payment - 434 dollars a month on about $70k in federal loans (they were likely $80k at the time). I was making $42k that year and $434 was just about all I could afford. I did the math and if I doubled my payment my loan (going to IBR) my loan would be basically paid off in 10 years anyway. It made no sense. But it's really loan/interest rate/income specific.
Ah okay. That explanation of costing it out is very similar to my friend's scenario so I probably misunderstood the programs she was talking about. Thanks!
Post by Daria Morgandorffer on Dec 4, 2012 11:13:47 GMT -5
Hmmm. I can't get it up to feel bad for her. Nothing *happened* to her- she's only living the consequences of choices she herself made. And nobody *needs* to stay home with their child for "at least a few months".
I believe kari is doing SL forgiveness for working for the feds, and I am pretty sure she does IBR because she has to do married filing separate to keep her income separate from her H's.
So you can do IBR, pay what you can afford, and then the balance is forgiven after 10 years IF you work in public service.
That's really interesting. My friend was told the exact opposite from her HR. I wonder if it's agency specific?
Cole is wrong. LoveTrains is right. HR shouldn't have anything to do with it, it's a federal program and unrelated to work (other than that your employer will need to verify you work at a non profit and your length of time employed, I assume).
You actually HAVE TO BE on IBR or the other income based (income contingent?) plan. You can't be on another plan, such as the extended repayment plan. Income based would mean a high payment for many married couples, which is why Kari and probably many others who use this plan file separately.
I've looked into this myself since I work for a non profit, but because I don't intend to stick around 10 years it doesn't work for me. Although at this rate it's looking like I'll be here 6-7 years so I guess if I could go back in time maybe I'd have done this from the get go.
As far as the OP, I do feel bad for her but I think she's made and is continuing to make some bad choices. If she wants a baby so darned bad why spend 125k to begin with if she doesn't think it is worth it to work while having a baby?
On the other hand, I logged into my student loan account last night for the first time in a while, and saw my balance really hasn't changed at all. I'm paying less than $1200 a year toward the principle and since I took a 6 month forbearance last year when my DH got laid off, basically any principle I've paid in the other 3.5 years I've been paying on them was negated by the interest that accrued. Interest is about $250 a month. I'm on the 25 year plan though.
I do think she could probably get lower payments by going income based or extended repayment, though if they are mostly private loans IDK for sure about that one. I definitely empathize with interest rates accruing being a death sentence for those extended repayment plans. I fully intend to start paying extra toward principle at some point, but I think we're a couple of years out before I feel comfortable doing that consistently (need to build up savings first). It sucks.
I don't know a single lawyer who didn't and study for the Bar simultaneously.
I do not know a single lawyer who worked while studying for the July bar exam. The route for pretty much every lawyer I know was to graduate in May, take BarBri/study for the bar in late July, and start working in September (although things got messed up a bit when the economy crashed a few years ago and starting classes started later). I do know some people who worked while studying for the February bar exam, but they were only taking the February bar exam because they had failed in July, and they typically took at least 2 weeks off from work before the exam. So it really is not that uncommon to take the time off. The bar exam (at least in NY) is no joke, and passing is really really important.
Yeah, but how many of those people had a baby on the way and their wife's SL that were in repayment to the tune of $1200 a month? I'm guess very few. You probably graduated at a time where most people had a job lined up for after they took the bar. Did this chick say her husband has a job for after? I sure hope so! Unfortunately, her and her husband kind of sound like my husband. He helped get is into debt but he's not willing to bend and be a little uncomfortable in order to fix the situation.
These kinds of stories underscore for me how much more regulation and oversight the SL industry needs. $125k for a MSW seems very much like exotic mortgage products in the mid 2000's, that homebuyers had no way of ever hoping to pay back.
Agreed. I know we expect people to have more understanding of the loans they are taking out when they get their degree, but I honestly am not sure I was that forward-thinking as a college freshman (yes, I realize this was a masters and she's likely much older than 18). Luckily, my student loans are pretty minimal due to a great scholarship and help from my parents, but I think there should have been some serious counseling while I was taking out those loans.
I really hate how she keeps saying "leaving my baby with a complete stranger".
Why do people say that? Who the hell drops their kids off with strangers everyday? Child care workers =/= strangers. AND she was a nannie, you'd think she wouldn't be such a fucktwad about child care.
I really shouldn't have read it. I knew it was going to be annoying.
I do not know a single lawyer who worked while studying for the July bar exam. The route for pretty much every lawyer I know was to graduate in May, take BarBri/study for the bar in late July, and start working in September (although things got messed up a bit when the economy crashed a few years ago and starting classes started later). I do know some people who worked while studying for the February bar exam, but they were only taking the February bar exam because they had failed in July, and they typically took at least 2 weeks off from work before the exam. So it really is not that uncommon to take the time off. The bar exam (at least in NY) is no joke, and passing is really really important.
Yeah, but how many of those people had a baby on the way and their wife's SL that were in repayment to the tune of $1200 a month? I'm guess very few. You probably graduated at a time where most people had a job lined up for after they took the bar. Did this chick say her husband has a job for after? I sure hope so! Unfortunately, her and her husband kind of sound like my husband. He helped get is into debt but he's not willing to bend and be a little uncomfortable in order to fix the situation.
I don't know that I understand the point here?
She did not say that he has a job lined up. If he has no job, he isn't going to be working anyway.
If he has a job lined up, it very well may not start until after the bar exam is over, because the firm may want him to focus on studying because he's less valuable to them if he fails.
At any rate, I was merely responding to the poster who is not a lawyer who said that she had never heard of anyone NOT working while studying for the bar exam. I know hundreds of lawyers who did not work while studying for the July bar, and can think of none who did. So I think it is fair to say that it is common for people to not work during that summer.
Wow, this is why I got my MSW from a state school. I wonder why her loan payments are so high? H has over 100k from med school and we pay under $500/mos, it's a 30yr plan though. I don't think what school you went to really matters for SWs, maybe for professor/research type positions, but not for your average SW job.
yeah in general I don't think it matters where you got the degree, just that you have the letters after your name.
I don't know a single lawyer who didn't and study for the Bar simultaneously.
I do not know a single lawyer who worked while studying for the July bar exam. The route for pretty much every lawyer I know was to graduate in May, take BarBri/study for the bar in late July, and start working in September (although things got messed up a bit when the economy crashed a few years ago and starting classes started later). I do know some people who worked while studying for the February bar exam, but they were only taking the February bar exam because they had failed in July, and they typically took at least 2 weeks off from work before the exam. So it really is not that uncommon to take the time off. The bar exam (at least in NY) is no joke, and passing is really really important.
This. I will go one step further. I left the country and did a grad school internship while DH studied for the NY Bar because I didn't want to distract him at all (or be around a bunch of stressy people who had all just graduated from law school with him).
The husband part is kind of tangential to me. I am still focusing on taking out $125,000 in loans and not realizing what the monthly payment on that is until just a few months before you need to start paying. Also, I don't know any MSWs whose yearly salaries would even begin to make a dent in that.
I'm with pugz (was it pugz?)- she needs a time machine to do it all over.
Wow, this is why I got my MSW from a state school. I wonder why her loan payments are so high? H has over 100k from med school and we pay under $500/mos, it's a 30yr plan though. I don't think what school you went to really matters for SWs, maybe for professor/research type positions, but not for your average SW job.
yeah in general I don't think it matters where you got the degree, just that you have the letters after your name.
In my area it does, but there are several MSW programs in the area and some are considered better in certain areas.
I do not know a single lawyer who worked while studying for the July bar exam. The route for pretty much every lawyer I know was to graduate in May, take BarBri/study for the bar in late July, and start working in September (although things got messed up a bit when the economy crashed a few years ago and starting classes started later). I do know some people who worked while studying for the February bar exam, but they were only taking the February bar exam because they had failed in July, and they typically took at least 2 weeks off from work before the exam. So it really is not that uncommon to take the time off. The bar exam (at least in NY) is no joke, and passing is really really important.
I worked while studying for the bar exam. I didn't take the July bar after graduating from law school because I was doing a judicial clerkship, and we were not certain where we would move after that because my H was applying to MBA programs. After he figured out where he was going to school, I applied for and got a big law job in the city we were moving to, started in September after my clerkship was over, then took the February bar. I did take the two weeks before the bar off, though. It sucked to work all day then go to Bar Bri at night, but I passed without issue.
Most people I know didn't work while studying for the bar because they had COL stipends from their firms, plus Bar Bri and moving expenses covered, to get them through that time. They also didn't have babies on the way and a spouse who was planning to be out of work. In this particular case, I don't think her H has the luxury of taking more than 2-3 weeks off to study, assuming he can find gainful employment for the summer.
I really hope for this person's sake that her husband has decent job prospects. What an awful situation.
Why does her H need to take "a few months" to study for the bar? DH took one week for intensive study in Ohio and no time from work in WA; he studied around his work schedule (sadly, but it was how the firm was, the bastards. He passed anyway. Take THAT, Hugh, you emeffer!)
I was thinking about the government forebearance for certain types of jobs. I wonder if she would qualify.
And I hope that her DH gets a good job to help pay for this. Holy crap what a stressful mess.
Most people take 2-3 months to study for the bar (from Memorial Day to end of July). Particularly if you are in a challenging state like NY or CA where passage rates are lower.
That being said...I took the NY bar and didn't feel like all that time off was totally necessary until the 3 weeks before, when I crammed like mad for the multiple choice.
I'd see if her H could get a part-time job while studying, and just schedule around his bar class.
I'd also suggest forbearance, although at the very least his loan payments shouldn't kick in until August/September, if I'm recalling my own experience correctly.
Finally, her nanny/daycare suggestion sounds right to me.
Also, ask her if there is a relative she trusts who can provide shortterm child care while she works?
The benefit to SW is there are a lot of PT/Evening opportunities available. She can work as a FFS Therapist in the evenings, or on weekends. There are Per Diem jobs as well, in hospitals or even at insurance companies.
I can't believe she never really thought about how social workers don't make much but kept on borrowing. "sold a bill of goods'? I'm sorry. Everyone knows MSWs don't make much. And her dh can most certainly work while he's studying for the bar; what's the matter there? Everyone does. You can't wait to look for a job until you've gotten your pass notices; he' should be searching right now.
And what's this about paying someone else to raise her kid? Please. Child care is part of the deal. Get a job, pay your bills. Everyone does it, quit whining.
This.
I know a SAHM who got a nursing degree from the U and then worked for 1 year b4 she decided she didn't want to work in a hospital because "the hours were too bad". Um, who the FUCK doesn't know that nurses work nights and weekends and holidays?
She needs to get a job at a non-profit and stay there for 10 years while putting her SLs on IBR so she can qualify for public service student loan forgiveness. There's no way IBR would have her paying $1,200/mo.
+1. She should take a position somewhere that will result in loan forgiveness. No way in hell she's paying back all that on a MSW degree.
I can't get over the number of people I know IRL who have done something similar. No way in hell should you get a social work degree from somewhere that will cost you $125k when you could do it at a state school for 1/4 the cost.
In my area it does, but there are several MSW programs in the area and some are considered better in certain areas.
We have 3 here, one private, one huge state school and a lesser known public school. In 10yrs, it's really never come into play when hiring. Getting the LMSW/LCSW on time and a good resume/work history seem much more important. I will say that I've know quite a few people from the lesser know public school who have had major trouble passing the exams.
I wish we only had three. I can count 4 MSW programs and a half dozen counseling/MFT/LPC programs off the top of my head. :-(
Though to be fair, I know a lot of people who got their jobs through alumni contacts.
I work in social services and we definitely look at school where people got their MSW when deciding who to hire. Just because it's not a financially lucrative field does not mean it's not competitive to get some jobs. Also, there are two highly regarded local private schools and two highly regarded public schools. And then a whole bunch of mediocre or crap programs. So I don't necessarily mean private = better, but better sure as hell = better.
I would not want this woman to be my social worker. I am also not shocked at how high her loans are, but I am shocked that it apparently never occurred to her that she will have to pay them back and how much that will cost.
Can you get loan forgiveness if your HHI is over a certain amount? Or is there something specific for social workers?
I know a handful of public interest lawyers who got totally screwed on loan forgiveness because they were married and their HHI was over a certain threshold. I don't remember the exact number, but it wasn't a very high threshold for two FT working adults- maybe $60K?
She needs to find a nanny position where she can bring her kid. Establishing a home daycare is HARD and takes a lot of time. I help out people in my area who want to do it and I would say only 1 in every 20 or so makes it past the 6 month mark. And even then, there is no guarantee she will fill up quickly enough to turn a profit. Most end up finding a job outside the home because they think setting up and opening their doors is enough to make people come running.