Any Other CPAs? Maybe lawyers too...

[sicilygirl]

I started working at a new firm in June. Prior to that I have worked at two others. All the firms have been small (15-20 accountants), but the one I'm at now is the smallest, about 10 people and the owner and I are the only CPAs.

The two of us went to a 2 day/16 hour CPE course back in August together. She paid for the course fees (there wasn't a discussion about it, she just signed us both up), but didn't cover my mileage or a place to stay. It was out of town, about a 2 hour drive from home. Her sister lives there, so she stayed with her. I stayed with my brother, who also lives there.

Yesterday, I asked her if I could go to a tax update course in January (8 hours of CPE). Her response was that she already paid for CPE for me this year. She said that I could still go, but I would need to pay for it myself. I was... confused. I mean, it's not a one-time thing. I need 40 hours a year. We had not previously discussed an arrangement for this. I mistakenly assumed that she would be paying for all of my dues/professional memberships/CPE (as well as mileage and lodging for the CPE since it's rarely offered in our town). Obviously, I should have asked about this when we were discussing compensation/benefits, but it honestly didn't occur to me that it was even a question so I take responsibility for that.

The conversation didn't really go further than her saying she had already paid for it this year. So my first question is, is there anyone who works for a CPA firm and your firm doesn't pay for that stuff? Should I try to talk to her about it again? I feel like it's pretty ridiculous to not cover these expenses. I mean, she specifically wanted to hire a CPA. I feel like she should've considered the costs associated with that, but maybe I am being unreasonable.

Part of my frustration lies in the fact that this isn't the only thing I feel like I've gotten stiffed on. Just an example... she offhandedly asked me what size shirt I wanted for the company polo and then when I got my next paycheck, $50 was deducted from it for the cost of the shirt. Ugh.

Anyway, thoughts?

ETA: I feel like I would be less frustrated if she had a policy that I was responsible for paying for all of this stuff myself. But it doesn't seem like she has a policy at all. Like she is making it up as she goes and just paying for what she "feels like."

[Deleted]

I am a lawyer, but that would piss me off. My firm pays for all of my CLEs, including optional ones if I just want to learn about something.

[spunkarella]

I think that is strange. I don't think it is uncommon for CPAs in industry to have to pay for their own CPEs, but I have always assumed all CPA firms would cover CPE. Both firms I have worked at do, and they have also told me which ones they want me to attend.

[rosebudred]

My firm does pay for all of my CPE, but I am at a very large firm. I definitely appreciate it, but it is specifically one of my benefits- I don't think this is something that one should assume would be paid for. Maintaining your CPA license is ultimately your responsibility, just as maintaining licensure is in other professions (even though many larger employers choose to at least help offset the cost as part of their benefit package). So regarding your ETA, I would say that the absence of a policy saying that paying for/ reimbursing for these expenses is part of your benefits signals that you should not expect anything - the first CPE she paid for was a perk.

However, I'm sure it is a bummer that it wasn't discussed in advance so you feel like she is being inconsistent, and the shirt example is def out of line (based on the facts here)

[sicilygirl]

Most of the responses so far make me think that I am not crazy to at least be very annoyed by this.

My husband is working towards his CPA and works for a real estate firm. He already knows that his CPE won't be covered. I think that is normal, like spunkarella said.

Also, it's not some 'out there' class. It's a tax update. All I do is taxes. I would think she would want me to, you know, understand the changes since last year.

[looseseal]

I haven't passed the exam yet, but both CPA firms I have worked for paid for me to attend/provided CPE every year. I would find it strange.

[rosebudred]

Certainly it is the NORM for CPE to be provided/ paid for- but that isn't the issue here. It is not the firm's responsibility, and one shouldn't assume it will be taken care of - it is your responsibility to maintain your licensure.

Similarly, even if your firm does pay/ provide CPE, it is your (mine too) responsibility to ensure you have taken enough each year/ triennial period, etc. My firm has tools to help me track it, but the state board of accountancy ultimately holds ME accountable.

[sicilygirl]

Dec 6, 2012 17:45:55 GMT -5 rosebudred said:

Certainly it is the NORM for CPE to be provided/ paid for- but that isn't the issue here. It is not the firm's responsibility, and one shouldn't assume it will be taken care of - it is your responsibility to maintain your licensure.

Similarly, even if your firm does pay/ provide CPE, it is your (mine too) responsibility to ensure you have taken enough each year/ triennial period, etc. My firm has tools to help me track it, but the state board of accountancy ultimately holds ME accountable.

I understand my responsibilities. And I plan on taking care of them. I'm not sure what in my OP indicated that I wasn't planning on doing that, but I can assure you that I am.

[fbf2006]

I would be annoyed. Both firms I've worked at have paid for my CPEs. It was usually in house anyway. They were at least mid sized firms though.

[midwest07]

I think it's the norm that your continuing education is paid by your employer if you are expected to maintain your licensure as part of your employment. I would find this especially true if you are having to travel to classes, that gets expensive.

I find it odd that she said she already paid for CPE for you for the year. It's like she thought the 16 hours is all you need and any additional is extra that you should pay for. Maybe next year, find one that is a total of 40 hours and have that be the first one you attend that she pays for!

[rosebudred]

Dec 6, 2012 17:52:03 GMT -5 sicilygirl said:

Dec 6, 2012 17:45:55 GMT -5 rosebudred said:

Certainly it is the NORM for CPE to be provided/ paid for- but that isn't the issue here. It is not the firm's responsibility, and one shouldn't assume it will be taken care of - it is your responsibility to maintain your licensure.

Similarly, even if your firm does pay/ provide CPE, it is your (mine too) responsibility to ensure you have taken enough each year/ triennial period, etc. My firm has tools to help me track it, but the state board of accountancy ultimately holds ME accountable.

I understand my responsibilities. And I plan on taking care of them. I'm not sure what in my OP indicated that I wasn't planning on doing that, but I can assure you that I am.

I didn't mean to insinuate that you weren't planning on taking care of it Sorry if it came across that way! I guess I'm just saying that while it sucks that your employer won't provide/ pay for it, I don't think you can assume they will since it is ultimately your responsibility.

[Becca]

I am a CPA. My firm and all others that I know of, pay for all required CPE. There may be a budget, but it is definitely a firm cost around here.

[Susie]

Dec 6, 2012 17:25:40 GMT -5 @iheartcosmos said:

I am a lawyer, but that would piss me off. My firm pays for all of my CLEs, including optional ones if I just want to learn about something.

Me too.

Calvin works for a local government in an attorney role, and even he gets his CLE paid for. He does have to pay his own bar dues ($300 every other year). His old firm was tiny, and they covered all of those costs.

[sometimesrunner]

H is a CPA and his CPE plus any costs associated with attending are paid for by the company. The firm has 15 people and 8 of them are CPAs. I would definitely be annoyed...those classes aren't cheap!

[londoncalling]

We are a super small firm with 2 CPA partners and 2 CPA staff. My CE is paid for 100%, time out of the office for CE is considered off site work, not PTO. Everyone else I know in public accounting also had their CE paid for.

In industry it's common to have to pay for it yourself. One of our staff left a few years ago to industry and that was part of her compensation package that she negotiated for (CE and time to complete).

Does your state allow online CE? Maybe you could try some of that to keep costs low. They can be really boring, but at least then you wouldn't have to worry about mileage and lodging.

[lindyanne]

I was also going to suggest online CE if that's a possibility. My sister works in a totally different industry (she's a SLP) but she pays $100/yr for access to one site and can do unlimited CE there.

[spankswife]

I'm a CPA, but work in house in real estate. My company pays for my CPEs, my license renewal, and my AICPA and state fees. however, I choose to do the CPEs online. I think it's like $350 for unlimited in a certain time frame, so I just do them all at once. I think it's through Thompson Reuters.

[magdala9]

I have three professional licenses. I have to negotiate each year with my office to get some courses to meet the licensing requirements. I never get sufficient classes for all my licensing requirements. For any classes that I have to pay out of pocket, I get receipts and deduct from my taxes.

[sicilygirl]

Thanks for all the input.

I do take advantage of free CPE when I can and do a lot online as well. This is the one class that I feel like it's really important to take in person. It's the most important one I take throughout the year.

I guess I will ask for clarification on her policy, but at the same time realize that I might have to pay for some of my own classes.

It just sucks. Ha.

[Deleted]

Even my shittyass firm run by sociopaths paid for up to 30 hours/year of CLE and my bar dues.

Too bad you can't go in to your boss and say, "But angryharpy said even the SOCIOPATH paid for these kinds of expenses!"

[shopgirl07]

Yuck, this woman is cheap and doesn't value her employees. I think you need to understand this and proceed accordingly.

Frankly, I'd be worried about other shit she might pull and probably look for another job.

[randp]

Dec 6, 2012 23:36:07 GMT -5 shopgirl07 said:

Yuck, this woman is cheap and doesn't value her employees. I think you need to understand this and proceed accordingly.

Frankly, I'd be worried about other shit she might pull and probably look for another job.

I agree with this. I would ask for a meeting with her just to clarify what will be paid by the company and what will not. Was that a one-time thing that she paid or will she pay for one class each year? Also, does she expect you to use vacation time if you attend any other classes that she isn't paying for? Whatever the answer, I'd just want to know.

I would hate to work for someone who is cheap like that. That would really rub me the wrong way.

I've worked at small & mid-sized cpa firms and always had my CPE paid for.

[londoncalling]

Dec 7, 2012 0:20:07 GMT -5 BirdGirl said:

Dec 6, 2012 23:36:07 GMT -5 shopgirl07 said:

Yuck, this woman is cheap and doesn't value her employees. I think you need to understand this and proceed accordingly.

Frankly, I'd be worried about other shit she might pull and probably look for another job.

I completely agree with this. Nickle and diming employees is not the way to run a successful business.

I also agree with this. The shirt thing bothers me too since you didn't knowingly consent to having the money deducted from your paycheck.

[sicilygirl]

Dec 6, 2012 22:59:54 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Even my shittyass firm run by sociopaths paid for up to 30 hours/year of CLE and my bar dues.

Too bad you can't go in to your boss and say, "But angryharpy said even the SOCIOPATH paid for these kinds of expenses!"

I was seriously thinking that you would be the one person to tell me that your old firm didn't pay for anything. Now I feel really bad... geez.

[sicilygirl]

Also, while this is something that I am upset about just now figuring out, I'm not even considering quitting my job over it. I honestly think some of the problems are because she has never had a CPA work for her before and doesn't realize she should be paying for this sort of thing. So thank you to those that encouraged me to just have a frank conversation with her about it. That's what I'm planning on doing.

I really do love my job otherwise. I am very well compensated for my qualifications (I got a 40% increase in pay when I came here), I get to work at home 2 days a week, and I have interesting/challenging work to do.

Thanks again for all the feedback!