Dispute with neighbor re: dog barking (LONG)

[vegas]

Dec 6, 2012 20:31:58 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

Yeah I don't think he should have access to the yard when you are not home. Everyone knows my stance on that.....

I would just lock the doggie door. Problem solved.

That really won't solve the problem for my dog. Like I said, he has insane anxiety issues. I could have the door blocked/locked for 10 minutes but otherwise locking it all day and not allowing him exterior access might be tougher than you all would think. It would definitely take time. I'm surprised so many people don't let their dogs out during the day, I've never heard of that. I'm not saying you all are wrong, it's just different than what I'm used to/

[emilyinchile]

kadams, I guess those are the things I've thought of, but thinking about them in the context of the yard where I grew up, none of them would have been at all likely. Maybe I'm in the minority having had a completely sealed off back yard, no animal threats beyond squirrels and no extreme weather. We never did leave our dog outside alone that I can remember, but I just don't feel like it would have been that dangerous for her. I can see how in other parts of the country or with a more accessible yard that wouldn't be the case.

[pugz]

I think blocking the doggy door on landscaper days is a smart idea, as long as he can hold it all day and won't be pissing all over your house!

the other things that popped into my head: find a landscaper with a set day/time, fire landscaper and do it yourself? (MM!)

[Becca]

Honestly? I hate dogs. With a passion. I don't care if it is 'just' 10 minutes 'just' once a week, nonstop barking for that long would piss me off. A ton.

I would approach my neighbor like a rational person and ask them to come up with a solution. If my neighbor didn't solve the problem, I likely wouldn't escalate it to animal control, but it would definitely damage any neighborly relationship and I would have a hard time accommodating any of their requests in the future.

10 minutes can feel like a very long time when there is such an annoying sound. And it isn't like it is an unexpected thing where some random occurrence set your dog off (I would be way more understanding of that). You KNOW that your dog is going to bark for ten minutes non stop, and you let him? Not cool IMHO.

I agree with removing access to the doggy door.

[dexteroni]

Dec 6, 2012 20:40:21 GMT -5 emilyinchile said:

kadams, I guess those are the things I've thought of, but thinking about them in the context of the yard where I grew up, none of them would have been at all likely. Maybe I'm in the minority having had a completely sealed off back yard, no animal threats beyond squirrels and no extreme weather. We never did leave our dog outside alone that I can remember, but I just don't feel like it would have been that dangerous for her. I can see how in other parts of the country or with a more accessible yard that wouldn't be the case.

Did it have a roof over it? If not, it's accessible. Other dogs can jump fences, kids can toss crap over it, etc.

There has been a series of dog murders in my hometown, which is a small, quiet town. It's been the most shocking thing that's happened there in years, but the reality is that several dogs have been killed in horrifying ways.

And one time my well-meaning but clueless neighbor tried to give Quincy a piece of an apple he found lying in his yard. If I hadn't been there to stop him, he surely would have eaten it, and would have probably gotten sick, or worse - who knows where that thing had been.

[LoveTrains]

So how long can your dog hold it? How long are you gone during the day?

My dog has severe anxiety as well so I understand how important it is for a dog to be on a routine. We just moved and my dog scratched his face raw from the anxiety over packed boxes.

He also takes clomicalm 2x a day (clomipramine hydrochloride).

I also have a dog walker who comes at lunch every day just so he can get some exercise.

[emilyinchile]

Dec 6, 2012 20:44:17 GMT -5 dexteroni said:

Dec 6, 2012 20:40:21 GMT -5 emilyinchile said:

kadams, I guess those are the things I've thought of, but thinking about them in the context of the yard where I grew up, none of them would have been at all likely. Maybe I'm in the minority having had a completely sealed off back yard, no animal threats beyond squirrels and no extreme weather. We never did leave our dog outside alone that I can remember, but I just don't feel like it would have been that dangerous for her. I can see how in other parts of the country or with a more accessible yard that wouldn't be the case.

Did it have a roof over it? If not, it's accessible. Other dogs can jump fences, kids can toss crap over it, etc.

There were no dogs in the houses either side or behind of us. There were kids in the house behind us, but there were fence-height bushes on both their side and ours. They would have grown up to be NBA pros if they could have gotten anything over both bushes and the fence.

Yes, technically someone could have walked through our front yard, through our courtyard and up to the back fence to throw something over that way. But living on a cul-de-sac with no through traffic, good neighbors and a dog that almost never ever barked to let a stranger know of her existence, this would probably have been as likely as something like the house burning down with the dog trapped inside. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it's not something that looking back, based on the yard I'm most familiar with, seems like it would have been as dangerous as many people say.

[Deleted]

My old neighbor used to leave his lab outside in his fenced in back yard when it was nice out. One day some random kids started playing fetch with the dog over the fence. The dog caught the stick (a branch) in her mouth and it punctured her mouth/throat. I happened to be outside when this happened and was able to call her owner at work. The dog could have been outside all day like that if I hadn't seen her, or maybe even died. So even something harmless could hurt the dog.

Personally, I think it's a little inconsiderate as a pet owner to let your dog be outside barking when you're not home. And I'm saying that as a dog owner myself. It's not your neighbor's fault that he has anxiety issues. I know you said it's only 10 minutes, but what if the lawn guy is there longer? 20 minutes? 30 minutes? He could be outside barking for an hour and you would have no idea unless someone complained to you.

[vegas]

Dec 6, 2012 20:45:09 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

So how long can your dog hold it? How long are you gone during the day?

My dog has severe anxiety as well so I understand how important it is for a dog to be on a routine. We just moved and my dog scratched his face raw from the anxiety over packed boxes.

He also takes clomicalm 2x a day (clomipramine hydrochloride).

I also have a dog walker who comes at lunch every day just so he can get some exercise.

Clomicalm is what my dog takes, too. The vet calls it doggy prozac. Thank you all for the advice/opinions. I love this board because it's the only place I can get unbiased, honest opinions. You all have been very helpful. I''ll keep you posted.

[Deleted]

Why can't you ask the landscaper to pick a day and come on that same day every week, or call you the day before they come? That's where I'd start, at least. Maybe they come on a different day each week because they figure no one cares what day they come, and if they know you need to know, they can set a more regular schedule.

I don't think your dog needs to go out during the day. I don't see what that has to do with anxiety. He'd still be in your house, it's not like you'd be putting him in a totally new situation. You may need to work up to leaving him for 8 hours (so maybe have someone stop by halfway through the day for a while) but there is no reason a healthy adult dog can't go a whole workday without going outside.

I am not generally of the though that you can't leave your dogs outside if you aren't watching them - in my neighborhood, at least, that seems like a paranoid concern. But with that said, I'd never leave my dogs all day with access to the yard without us around. I'd be afraid they'd somehow get out or eat too much grass a puke a lot or something.

I do think your neighbor is overreacting, but I also think your dog shouldn't be allowed to bark non stop. Even for 10 minutes. When my dogs bark, they are called and come in immediately. I can't stand when my neighbors let their dogs sit outside and bark, if for no other reason than that it upsets MY dog and then I have to listen to him being upset and making noise AND the neighbor dog barking. It's disruptive and annoying, even in the middle of the day. I don't think I'd flip out over it like your neighbor, but I definitely would be annoyed.

[vegas]

Dec 6, 2012 20:52:23 GMT -5 cuadrado said:

My old neighbor used to leave his lab outside in his fenced in back yard when it was nice out. One day some random kids started playing fetch with the dog over the fence. The dog caught the stick (a branch) in her mouth and it punctured her mouth/throat. I happened to be outside when this happened and was able to call her owner at work. The dog could have been outside all day like that if I hadn't seen her, or maybe even died. So even something harmless could hurt the dog.

Personally, I think it's a little inconsiderate as a pet owner to let your dog be outside barking when you're not home. And I'm saying that as a dog owner myself. It's not your neighbor's fault that he has anxiety issues. I know you said it's only 10 minutes, but what if the lawn guy is there longer? 20 minutes? 30 minutes? He could be outside barking for an hour and you would have no idea unless someone complained to you.

Thank you for your thoughts. I actually never was concerned about giving him access to the yard 100% of the time until I posted here, mainly because it's so commonplace where I live. These are great points.

[vanillacourage]

I agree with the others that I'd find a way for the dog to be in the house all day. But, if you find that the neighbor just picks something else to harass you about, I'd let your landlord know. I'm a LL and would not be happy if a petty neighbor was irritating my good tenants for no reason (barking dog aside).

[dr.girlfriend]

I know in our county there's a specified amount of time they have to be barking to file a complaint, and I'm sure that it's more than 10 minutes. I know because my jerkass neighbors reported us instead of talking to us when we first moved.

[dr.girlfriend]

Dec 6, 2012 20:42:23 GMT -5 Becca said:

Honestly? I hate dogs. With a passion. I don't care if it is 'just' 10 minutes 'just' once a week, nonstop barking for that long would piss me off. A ton.

I'm sorry you don't like dogs, but seriously? Someone running a lawnmower or leaf blower or something like that is more annoying than barking, and lasts longer than 10 minutes once a week.

[kadams767]

Dec 6, 2012 20:40:21 GMT -5 emilyinchile said:

kadams, I guess those are the things I've thought of, but thinking about them in the context of the yard where I grew up, none of them would have been at all likely. Maybe I'm in the minority having had a completely sealed off back yard, no animal threats beyond squirrels and no extreme weather. We never did leave our dog outside alone that I can remember, but I just don't feel like it would have been that dangerous for her. I can see how in other parts of the country or with a more accessible yard that wouldn't be the case.

Well, I said that I am paranoid, so I fully admit that these things are not entirely likely to happen, but I also don't really want to take a chance. My friends' mail carrier includes a freaking dog biscuit with the mail in their mail slot. So no, I wouldn't be surprised if they tossed one over the fence at my house for my dog outside.

I live in an urban area. While I have a privacy fence, my neighbors' houses are very close and kids have tossed things over the fence plenty of times, and there is a large apartment building behind my house. I know my immediate neighbors, but who knows who is in that building? Given that they can easily see into my yard, why take a chance that someone will definitely not steal my dog or feed it crap?


And while I doubt a hawk is going to come down and snatch him, I'm not exactly thrilled with him killing a squirrel or bunny while I'm at work, either.

Oh, and I live in the northeast. Winters here are very cold, and summers are incredibly hot and humid. I would feel terrible if he was stuck outside when it's 10 degrees or 90.

[Becca]

Dec 6, 2012 21:27:37 GMT -5 dr.girlfriend said:

Dec 6, 2012 20:42:23 GMT -5 Becca said:

Honestly? I hate dogs. With a passion. I don't care if it is 'just' 10 minutes 'just' once a week, nonstop barking for that long would piss me off. A ton.

I'm sorry you don't like dogs, but seriously? Someone running a lawnmower or leaf blower or something like that is more annoying than barking, and lasts longer than 10 minutes once a week.

Ehh, leaf blowers and lawn mowers are nothing compared to a barking dog to me. I would never let my kid scream outside for ten minutes straight. If she doesn't stop screeching after the first reminder, she gets sent inside. I would expect the same courtesy from my neighbor - kid or dog.

Like I said, I wouldn't go all crazy like OP's neighbor, but I can definitely understand how ten minutes of straight barking could get to someone.

[muttsrule]

As someone who does detailed volunteer work with an animal control, I would encourage you to call them for advice. Most agencies want to mediate and aren't looking to bust down the door and take your dog. If you call them, you look proactive....most bark complaints are about assholes who chain dogs like lawn ornaments.

Second, your dog really shouldn't be outside when you aren't around if he's got unpredictable behavior. Maybe consider daycare, or as you mentioned hiring someone.

Last, your neighbor sounds like a piece of work. Hope you find your dream house soon.

[vegas]

Dec 6, 2012 21:14:11 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

I agree with the others that I'd find a way for the dog to be in the house all day. But, if you find that the neighbor just picks something else to harass you about, I'd let your landlord know. I'm a LL and would not be happy if a petty neighbor was irritating my good tenants for no reason (barking dog aside).

Thanks, our LL is actually a close friend who has investment properties. He's had issues with this lady in the past so he's not surprised by her behavior. I'm actually a landlord too. We would be living in our other house if it had more rooms and wasn't under a two year lease agreement when we sold our other house.

Thanks again for the tips re: keeping him indoors. We are going to work on it and see if he can do it.

[ddi741]

Can you do doggie day camp on landscaper days . Our dog goes in and out the doggie door all day. Sometimes for the bathroom, sometimes to just lay in the sun.

[Deleted]

10 minutes is nothing. I WISH our neighbors dogs (multiple neighbors) only barked for 10 minutes at a time. We're talking 3-4 hours here.

[mollybrown]

Dec 6, 2012 21:35:01 GMT -5 Becca said:

Dec 6, 2012 21:27:37 GMT -5 dr.girlfriend said:

I'm sorry you don't like dogs, but seriously? Someone running a lawnmower or leaf blower or something like that is more annoying than barking, and lasts longer than 10 minutes once a week.

Ehh, leaf blowers and lawn mowers are nothing compared to a barking dog to me. I would never let my kid scream outside for ten minutes straight. If she doesn't stop screeching after the first reminder, she gets sent inside. I would expect the same courtesy from my neighbor - kid or dog.

Like I said, I wouldn't go all crazy like OP's neighbor, but I can definitely understand how ten minutes of straight barking could get to someone.

I totally agree. I'm appalled by how many people think it's okay to disregard the neighbor. It's not okay because it's "only" 10 minutes. If the dog barks uncontrollably for any reason, then it shouldn't be allowed outside. If I take my kid out to dinner and she "only" screams at the top of her lungs for one minute, is that okay? The expectation would be that I hustle her out of there as soon as she started being annoying, the same way I would expect someone to take their dog inside right away if it is barking at the landscaper.

I agree that keeping the dog inside or finding another place for it on landscaping days are best for the dog and neighbor.

[minniebee]

First, I think your neighbor is overreacting. 10 minutes per week of barking is no big deal. There are a lot worse things you could be doing than letting your dog bark for 10 minutes. If I was your neighbor, I would never consider calling animal control over something like that.

Second, I would never let my dog outside when I'm not home. There was a rash of dog thefts where I lived last summer ... all from fenced yards and all happened on week days when the dog owners were away at work. There were also two incidents where pit bulls (who had never done anything to hurt anyone) were taken from their yards and tortured. This was in a suburb with very low crime rates. Sorry, but I'm not willing to take those kinds of risks with my dog.

If your dog freaks out about the crate, what about just confining him to one room in the house? We don't crate our dog, but he is confined in the laundry room when we arent home. He has water, a dog bed, etc. He's very comfortable there, and he doesn't like crates either.

[dexteroni]

Dec 6, 2012 23:24:36 GMT -5 minniebee said:

If your dog freaks out about the crate, what about just confining him to one room in the house? We don't crate our dog, but he is confined in the laundry room when we arent home. He has water, a dog bed, etc. He's very comfortable there, and he doesn't like crates either.

I don't see a reason to confine him to one room. He seems like he's fine having run of the house; he just needs to stay inside.

[thedutchgirl]

Well, I fall on the side of keeping the dog inside always when no one is home. My BFF's dog was poisoned by a neighbor, and he barely lived.

Short of that, I agree with getting a set day or a day-before call from the landscapers. That way you can keep the dog inside that day. Your dog is freaking adorable, by the way.

[isabel]

Dec 6, 2012 20:40:21 GMT -5 emilyinchile said:

kadams, I guess those are the things I've thought of, but thinking about them in the context of the yard where I grew up, none of them would have been at all likely. Maybe I'm in the minority having had a completely sealed off back yard, no animal threats beyond squirrels and no extreme weather. We never did leave our dog outside alone that I can remember, but I just don't feel like it would have been that dangerous for her. I can see how in other parts of the country or with a more accessible yard that wouldn't be the case.

Agreed. I'm always sort of confused when I see everyone on here say that people shouldn't let their dogs outside when they're not home. We have a 6' privacy fence (all wood), the gates are locked from the inside, and there aren't any animals around during the day besides squirrels (which, much to my dogs dismay, they can't catch).

Maybe it depends on the yard and situation, but I've never been concerned about leaving our dog door open. We rarely close it, except when one of the dogs gets worked up about a squirrel or something.

OP, I like the idea of having the landscaper block the door with a plant or something. I wouldn't block off total access. One of our dogs used to have major anxiety when we moved to a condo where he couldn't be outside all day or choose to go in and out. He ended up chewing through a door while we were gone. The instant we moved to a house with a dog door, he was 100% fine. No issues whatsoever since then. I'm concerned that blocking his access to go in and out might cause him more anxiety. It's just a matter of how free they feel to do what they need to do, even if he doesn't actually spend that much time outside.

[lyrafrederick]

Hi!

Although I am generally in the "dogs stay inside when owners aren't home" camp, I do recognize that some owners feel quite secure with their yards and this is not an issue. More importantly, if being outside alleviates some of your dog's anxiety, that is definitely a priority! You've gotten some great suggestions, but I have another from a dog trainer perspective (I rehab rescue dogs so I understand sometimes you just have to work with what you've got for anxiety/barking...).

Is it possible to arrange a mock up of what happens when the landscaper comes, or even arrange to be home when the landscaper comes for a few weeks and work on some counter-conditioning training? There is no guarantee what you train while at home will stick while you're gone, but it might be worth a shot. You could try to give your dog a different activity to do while the landscaper is there and when the landscaper is arriving, such as a special toy your dog would only get at that time, teaching a command for a safe space to go to during that time, a stuffed kong toy to eat during that time, or perhaps even going out and meeting the landscaper/allowing your dog to sniff out the equipment and vehicle with lots of rewards. The goal here would be to try to desensitize your dog to the landscaper and realize it's no more eventful than the mailman pulling up or something like that. If your dog is not normally a barker (it sounds like they aren't), then you SHOULD theoretically be able to show him or her that it's safe to apply that same quiet nature to this thing too.

Ultimately though, dude, your neighbor is being a tightwad. So sorry you are dealing with this.

[aspentosh]

I would try and keep him inside during the day. Our neighbor has two small dogs that yap and yap, and while it's only for 10-15 minutes a couple of times per day, it does drive me crazy...

FWIW, both of our dogs were rescues and hated their crates. After a lot of hard work, they now love them and stay in them while we're at work. (Before we moved to our new house they would go sleep in their crates when we were home!) Maybe try another behaviorist?

[phunluvin82]

Dec 6, 2012 20:42:23 GMT -5 Becca said:

Honestly? I hate dogs. With a passion. I don't care if it is 'just' 10 minutes 'just' once a week, nonstop barking for that long would piss me off. A ton.

I would approach my neighbor like a rational person and ask them to come up with a solution. If my neighbor didn't solve the problem, I likely wouldn't escalate it to animal control, but it would definitely damage any neighborly relationship and I would have a hard time accommodating any of their requests in the future.

10 minutes can feel like a very long time when there is such an annoying sound. And it isn't like it is an unexpected thing where some random occurrence set your dog off (I would be way more understanding of that). You KNOW that your dog is going to bark for ten minutes non stop, and you let him? Not cool IMHO.

I agree with removing access to the doggy door.

Wow, seriously. 10 minutes a week and you'd try to get someone's dog taken away by animal control? I'm sorry but that sucks. Dogs bark every now and then...do you think no one should ever own a dog if they can't keep it quiet 100% of the time?

[darkling_glory]

Maybe you answered this already, but what is the landscaper doing that he's ONLY there for 10 minutes?

I feel like maybe you're underestimating how long the dog is truly barking for. It takes my landscaper much longer to mow the grass, leaf blow, and trim hedges.

I think you're neighbor is being a bitch, but I see her side of it.

[londoncalling]

My pup was playing outside supervised and snapped at a bee. The bee stung her in her mouth, she went into anaphylactic shock, and died within the hour even with getting her to the vet ASAP. While it's an rare allergy in dogs, it does exist.

I don't now and wouldn't let my dog outside without us there.