Diversity ramblings

[dr.girlfriend]

So, here's the reason for my poll about my kid. Let's say hypothetically that someone from outside your workplace criticized your workplace for the diversity of its employees in a certain group. Saying along the lines of, "If 10 people are qualified for a job, maybe you go down to the 9th or 10th person for diversity, even if they are not your top choice, as long as they are qualified."

I know diversity and affirmative action are sensitive issues, and I don't want to get derailed there. I kind of responded that people here had a lot of diversity of experiences, had worked extensively with underserved populations, etc.

This is the crux: They thought that the physical APPEARANCE of diversity was a very important thing. So that (let's say my workplace serves kids), minority kids can look at someone in a professional role who is a minority and think, "Hey, I could be there too."

I do think that's admirable, but I also think that ethnicity based on appearance is going to be a moot issue in probably a few generations. My kid could self-identify as black, or as Indian -- he has roughly equal parts of both -- or as multi-racial. But if a Hispanic kid looks at him and thinks he's Hispanic, does that lessen the impact? How about our blond-haired, blue-eyed staff member who is a Cuban Jew and speaks fluent Spanish? Does she not get diversity points because of her appearance?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

[spankswife]

I agree with you 100%!

I have always thought, if I got a job (for instance) I would want it to be because I was #1 on the list, not because I was in the top 10 and met some other unrelated-to-the-position criteria. Not because I am a woman, or because of my race, or my last name, or my weight/height/or eye color, but because I was the best.

[nonsenseabound]

yes, phenotypes are very important when it comes to racial identification for most people.

I mean, do we honestly think that the majority of Americans would be down with Barack Obama stating, "I'm a white dude." he is equally both black and white but his phenotypes are definitely more black and he self identifies as black.

My kids are 1/2 asian and 1/2 white. Both have dark eyes and brown hair. I identify them as asian but my husband tends to see them as biracial.

[Deleted]

If being an attractive, black female is going to get me a job, I'll take it. But I think it depends on what the person identifies with. I don't identify with being black so I don't see Michelle Obama and think "I could do that." Or what have you.

What you identify your children with may not be what they identify with themselves. Being a mixed race is awkward sometimes because each race can reject you if you don't fit the stereotype.

[Deleted]

I think appearance will become less and less important in the coming generations as more and more ethnicities "mix." I mean it's only been 46 years since interracial marriage was proclaimed legal by the Supreme Court.

While it is important for young people to see reflections of themselves in the people they aspire to be, I think this can be also be served, to some degree, by simply seeing a lot of different peoples represented that are not necessarily one's exact ethnicities.

[carfar]

I think it is important for children especially to see people who "look" like them in roles like that. As a child it's hard for them to understand the nuances, and I think it does make an impact. How important is it in terms of priority when choosing and putting together a team in the work place? I don't know, but I think it's important for development for people to see "themselves" reflected in their community.

[nonsenseabound]

Dec 7, 2012 16:13:23 GMT -5 @libgrl said:

I think appearance will become less and less important in the coming generations as more and more ethnicities "mix." I mean it's only been 46 years since interracial marriage was proclaimed legal by the Supreme Court.

While it is important for young people to see reflections of themselves in the people they aspire to be, I think this can be also be served, to some degree, by simply seeing a lot of different peoples represented that are not necessarily one's exact ethnicities.

See, I disagree that phenotypes will be less important as the years go on. We are still hitting major markers even today for non-white males in America. it might only be only 47 yeasr since "loving v. va" but interracial children certainly existed prior to 47 years ago :-)

To me saying that phenotypes won't matter some day is the same as saying racism is a dying issue. I don't see racism going anywhere anytime soon.

[mbcdefg]

Complex answer.

On the one hand, I think people should be hired based on merit, not pushed ahead because they can potentially fill a quota. I don't think I should get a job ahead of someone on equal or slightly lesser footing with me JUST because I'm a woman, or (s)he should get it JUST because (s)he is a particular race.

On the other hand, though, it's discouraging to see nothing but old white men doing a particular job, or whatever. And it's good to have different viewpoints represented. The bulk of society isn't one particular race.

I worked for a school several years ago and asked some random kids to pose for a photo to upload to our website ... really, super-random, like I saw them walking down a hallway and stopped them. There was one white kid, one or two black kids, a couple Hispanic kids and a couple more were Indian or Asian ... I forget the exact makeup but nobody looked the same.

Later, another admin pulled me aside and said that, next time, I needed to find more white kids for a website photo, because such a diverse photo would discourage older alumni from making donations to the school :-| :-(

[dr.girlfriend]

Dec 7, 2012 16:40:52 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Later, another admin pulled me aside and said that, next time, I needed to find more white kids for a website photo, because such a diverse photo would discourage older alumni from making donations to the school

:-|

[dr.girlfriend]

I shouldn't have started this at the end if the day, now I have to type a novel on my phone. I realize I'm a hypocrite about this too. There is a statue by my doctor's office that shows three physicians, and on the train there's an ad for a business school with three guys pictured. In both cases all three guys were white men in appearance, and I specifically thought, "Would it have killed them to throw a woman or minority in there?" So obviously the appearance of diversity does matter to me. Hmmm.

Bliss, I will say that ethnic rejection is not unique to people who are multi-racial. I am 100% Indian, and I got tons of flak in college from Indian folks for not eating Indian food or speaking any Indian languages, etc. I think if you're from Rochester or Buffalo it's hard to understand that not everyone has access to Indian grocery stores and Hindu theatre groups and whatnot.

[pitterwoo]

One of my favorite compliments at work was from a contact that I work with a lot talking to my boss. She said, "Pitter has been so great. She's the white girl in the room that keeps coming back. She's been so helpful...blah blah blah." I just love it because she just basically acknowledged how hard it is to get your foot in the door as a newcomer and someone who doesn't look like everyone else. I had to keep showing up for a LONG time before I could really get any results. If I had been black I could have shaved a year off of my project timeline.

[Deleted]

Dec 7, 2012 17:11:49 GMT -5 dr.girlfriend said:

I shouldn't have started this at the end if the day, now I have to type a novel on my phone. I realize I'm a hypocrite about this too. There is a statue by my doctor's office that shows three physicians, and on the train there's an ad for a business school with three guys pictured. In both cases all three guys were white men in appearance, and I specifically thought, "Would it have killed them to throw a woman or minority in there?" So obviously the appearance of diversity does matter to me. Hmmm.

Bliss, I will say that ethnic rejection is not unique to people who are multi-racial. I am 100% Indian, and I got tons of flak in college from Indian folks for not eating Indian food or speaking any Indian languages, etc. I think if you're from Rochester or Buffalo it's hard to understand that not everyone has access to Indian grocery stores and Hindu theatre groups and whatnot.

Oh I don't think it's unique to multi-racial. I just think it's different for multi-racial because you get it from ALL the races you're "apart" of. People put you in one or the other, not both. I'm either black or white, I can't have attributes from both. If that makes sense. It can be tough. It's tough for any race really.

[Deleted]

I love that my kids experience a lot of cultural diversity but I still wish there were more black kids/families in their school. I do not think it will become a moot issue any time soon.

[liveintheville]

Dec 7, 2012 16:05:40 GMT -5 nonsenseabound said:

yes, phenotypes are very important when it comes to racial identification for most people.

I mean, do we honestly think that the majority of Americans would be down with Barack Obama stating, "I'm a white dude." he is equally both black and white but his phenotypes are definitely more black and he self identifies as black.

My kids are 1/2 asian and 1/2 white. Both have dark eyes and brown hair. I identify them as asian but my husband tends to see them as biracial.

Same here. Technically they're 1/2 Vietnamese and 1/2 Ashkenazi Jew. They look Asian. Maybe 1/2. They do not look like my spouse, who is pretty identifiable as a Jew.

[carfar]

Dec 7, 2012 17:38:45 GMT -5 blissanity said:

Dec 7, 2012 17:11:49 GMT -5 dr.girlfriend said:

I shouldn't have started this at the end if the day, now I have to type a novel on my phone. I realize I'm a hypocrite about this too. There is a statue by my doctor's office that shows three physicians, and on the train there's an ad for a business school with three guys pictured. In both cases all three guys were white men in appearance, and I specifically thought, "Would it have killed them to throw a woman or minority in there?" So obviously the appearance of diversity does matter to me. Hmmm.

Bliss, I will say that ethnic rejection is not unique to people who are multi-racial. I am 100% Indian, and I got tons of flak in college from Indian folks for not eating Indian food or speaking any Indian languages, etc. I think if you're from Rochester or Buffalo it's hard to understand that not everyone has access to Indian grocery stores and Hindu theatre groups and whatnot.

Oh I don't think it's unique to multi-racial. I just think it's different for multi-racial because you get it from ALL the races you're "apart" of. People put you in one or the other, not both. I'm either black or white, I can't have attributes from both. If that makes sense. It can be tough. It's tough for any race really.

See, I know this occurs, but I've never actually felt that.

Maybe because I live in a more diverse area than you, but I've never felt "rejected" from either side necessarily. Have I had dumb comments made to me from both sides? Yes? Have I felt out of place because of my race (and looks?) yes but I can't say that feeling was one of rejection or " judgement" for not being "black" or "white" enough.

[Deleted]

Dec 7, 2012 18:07:01 GMT -5 carfar said:

Dec 7, 2012 17:38:45 GMT -5 blissanity said:

Oh I don't think it's unique to multi-racial. I just think it's different for multi-racial because you get it from ALL the races you're "apart" of. People put you in one or the other, not both. I'm either black or white, I can't have attributes from both. If that makes sense. It can be tough. It's tough for any race really.

See, I know this occurs, but I've never actually felt that.

Maybe because I live in a more diverse area than you, but I've never felt "rejected" from either side necessarily. Have I had dumb comments made to me from both sides? Yes? Have I felt out of place because of my race (and looks?) yes but I can't say that feeling was one of rejection or " judgement" for not being "black" or "white" enough.

It always comes from people out of state. Which is weird. It's not necessarily "rejection" so much as not understood, maybe. Like it's hard to find people who relate to me.

Also, I think it depends on your parents race. I grew up in a white family, I saw my black dad a couple times a month. Seems like most the posters here with mixed kids, come from biracial parents so I think that plays into it as well. How am I not suppose to act like a white girl from a middle class family when that's how I grew up. Perhaps if I had more of a relationship with the other side of my family I wouldn't feel it as much. IDK.

This is whole thing fascinates me re my experiences v. others' experiences


ETA - I'm not sure this makes sense over the internet without knowing my mannerisms and such. IDK. Maybe it doesn't make any sense at all.

[BNL2]

I think minority children are positively impacted by seeing/working with professional who are their race. I work in a majority white area with very little diversity in the schools. My job requires me to go to many different schools, and I don't necessarily have a close relationship with most students, but little Black girls flock to me like crazy. They make sure I see them and often go out of their way to start conversations with me. Because of this, I have tried to be more visible in the schools eventhough my job doesn't really require it.

I think in highly diverse areas it may not be a big deal because there's a huge representation of successful minorities. But when all the grownups around you who are "smart" and "successful" are White, it makes a difference to see someone who looks like you in the smart and successful role.

[Deleted]

Dec 7, 2012 16:15:06 GMT -5 carfar said:

I think it is important for children especially to see people who "look" like them in roles like that. As a child it's hard for them to understand the nuances, and I think it does make an impact. How important is it in terms of priority when choosing and putting together a team in the work place? I don't know, but I think it's important for development for people to see "themselves" reflected in their community.

I agree with this.