Anyone up for anti-vax argument?

[redheadbaker]

Jessica N.: We vaccinate on schedule. The big ones at one year- chickenpox and MMR can be a direct cause of autism so we're delaying those until she starts pre-school since we don't daycare.

[heyjude]

Her sentences conflict.

[soozy87]

I don't plan on vaccinating my kids for chicken pox.

[Deleted]

I :heart: Coleen.

[knitty]

Point out to her that once a baby is mobile there's no difference between daycare and non-daycare. They're out of the sanitised bubble of your arms and touching things and being breathed on all over the world.

Dig up that stat on how long after the infected person breathed in the room you can catch measles.

Mention that Danish study of every single child in the country and Japan where the rate of autism still kept rising after they stopped the MMR.

Suggest they do MMR at 18 months instead (that's the time on many schedules).

Mention the nine deaths in Philly in 1991 from measles, out of 1400 cases (that's 1 in 155). Plus, this year there were seperate cases in Philadelphia in May and July.

[Knight]

Dec 11, 2012 15:12:24 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

I don't plan on vaccinating my kids for chicken pox.

I almost died from chicken pox when I was 6. Best of luck!

[heyjude]

Dec 11, 2012 21:11:00 GMT -5 knitty said:

Point out to her that once a baby is mobile there's no difference between daycare and non-daycare. They're out of the sanitised bubble of your arms and touching things and being breathed on all over the world.

Dig up that stat on how long after the infected person breathed in the room you can catch measles.

Mention that Danish study of every single child in the country and Japan where the rate of autism still kept rising after they stopped the MMR.

Suggest they do MMR at 18 months instead (that's the time on many schedules).

Mention the nine deaths in Philly in 1991 from measles, out of 1400 cases (that's 1 in 155). Plus, this year there were seperate cases in Philadelphia in May and July.

Delayed MMR? Approved by whom? Not the CDC.

[picksthemusic]

Dec 11, 2012 15:12:24 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

I don't plan on vaccinating my kids for chicken pox.

You do realize that your kids will then be at risk for shingles later in life if they contract the disease.


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[ttt]

Not vaccinating for chickenpox doesn't appall me (though my kids are vax'd for it). But *still* believing that MMR causes autism does.

[ChillyMcFreeze]

I just got into my first FB vax debate this morning! Taking notes...

I already busted out herd immunity and polio still exists. Oh, and Google + intuition =/= a medical degree. Time to reload.

[Deleted]

Shingles sucks. I had it when I was pg. So DD probably got immunity in utero.

I still gave her the chicken pox vax.

[ECB]

I had a run of shingles a few months ago. I think mine was "mild" compared to some, but OMG. No words. It SUCKED.

[eclaires]

Shingles is the devil. I developed it 2 weeks before my wedding. It sucked.

[knitty]

Dec 12, 2012 0:20:32 GMT -5 picksthemusic said:

Dec 11, 2012 15:12:24 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

I don't plan on vaccinating my kids for chicken pox.

You do realize that your kids will then be at risk for shingles later in life if they contract

Citation?

[jaylea]

All I know is that I had a severe case of the chicken pox and I wouldn't wish that on my kids. I had them under my eyelids, under my fingernails, down my throat. My brother had 7 on his waist, and then I just got nailed. High fever, really sick. I'm glad to have my kids not go through that.

[soozy87]

I also don't get the flu shot.

[ttt]

Dec 12, 2012 12:45:11 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

I also don't get the flu shot.

Do you have a reason for this?

[Chirp]

CDC recommends the MMR between 12-18 months and again between 4-6 years.

www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/downloads/parent-ver-sch-0-6yrs.pdf


My kid isn't in daycare and he still managed to pick up a nasty case of HFMD. My best guess is that he picked it up at the library.

[eddy]

I just vaccinated the shizz out of my 5 year old and 6 month old on Monday. They are nice and pumped full of ingrediants. Dtap, rotovirus, varicella, MMR, flu, and other stuff I can't even remember.

I am a bad mom though because I forgot to send my 5 year old to daycare on Tuesday with a dose of ibuprofen. He was feeling pretyt lousy by lunchtime. So an afternon of snacks and tv fixed him up real good.

[Chirp]

Dec 12, 2012 12:40:31 GMT -5 knitty said:

Dec 12, 2012 0:20:32 GMT -5 picksthemusic said:

You do realize that your kids will then be at risk for shingles later in life if they contract

Citation?

www.webmd.com/vaccines/features/shingles-chickenpox

Research begun in the 1950s has shown that when we recover from childhood chickenpox infections, the virus that causes the infection, varicella zoster virus, remains latent in nerve cells.

What causes reactivation of the virus is unclear, but as we age, experts believe the immune responses that keep varicella zoster virus dormant in the nerves weaken with age. One in three people will get shingles during their lifetime, and at least half of all people 85 and older have had the ailment.


ETA: Obviously I'm not picksthemusic, but I'm guessing that's what she meant.

[soozy87]

Dec 12, 2012 12:53:38 GMT -5 ttt said:

Dec 12, 2012 12:45:11 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

I also don't get the flu shot.

Do you have a reason for this?

I am generally a healthy person. I have been fine up until now.

[ttt]

Dec 12, 2012 13:05:29 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

Dec 12, 2012 12:53:38 GMT -5 ttt said:

Do you have a reason for this?

I am generally a healthy person. I have been fine up until now.

This is like saying that since I'm a good driver and have never been in an accident, I don't need to wear my seat belt.

[knitty]

Dec 12, 2012 13:08:18 GMT -5 ttt said:

Dec 12, 2012 13:05:29 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

I am generally a healthy person. I have been fine up until now.

This is like saying that since I'm a good driver and have never been in an accident, I don't need to wear my seat belt.

No, because the risk for complications from the flu is based on your general health and pre-existing conditions, like age, asthma, smoking, probably diabetes.

Age. Seasonal influenza tends to target young children and people over 65. The pandemic H1N1 virus that surfaced in 2009, however, appeared to be most common in teenagers and young adults.
Occupation. Health care workers and child care personnel are more likely to have close contact with people infected with influenza.
Living conditions. People who live in facilities along with many other residents, such as nursing homes or military barracks, are more likely to develop influenza.
Weakened immune system. Cancer treatments, anti-rejection drugs, corticosteroids and HIV/AIDS can weaken your immune system. This can make it easier for you to catch influenza and may also increase your risk of developing complications.
Chronic illnesses. Chronic conditions, such as asthma, diabetes or heart problems, may increase your risk of influenza complications.
Pregnancy. Pregnant women are more likely to develop influenza complications, particularly in the second and third trimesters.

[ttt]

Dec 12, 2012 13:58:34 GMT -5 knitty said:

Dec 12, 2012 13:08:18 GMT -5 ttt said:

This is like saying that since I'm a good driver and have never been in an accident, I don't need to wear my seat belt.

No, because the risk for complications from the flu is based on your general health and pre-existing conditions, like age, asthma, smoking, probably diabetes.

Your risk of being in a car accident isn't influenced by your driving history? Someone who's been in 10 accidents in the past 5 years isn't more likely to get into another one? Someone who just started driving last week isn't more likely to be in an accident? Where you live and drive doesn't impact your risk?

[knitty]

Dec 12, 2012 12:58:08 GMT -5 Chirp said:

Dec 12, 2012 12:40:31 GMT -5 knitty said:

Citation?

www.webmd.com/vaccines/features/shingles-chickenpox

Research begun in the 1950s has shown that when we recover from childhood chickenpox infections, the virus that causes the infection, varicella zoster virus, remains latent in nerve cells.

What causes reactivation of the virus is unclear, but as we age, experts believe the immune responses that keep varicella zoster virus dormant in the nerves weaken with age. One in three people will get shingles during their lifetime, and at least half of all people 85 and older have had the ailment.


ETA: Obviously I'm not picksthemusic, but I'm guessing that's what she meant.

It's not what she said, though. She said there's a different risk for shingles with wild type and vaccine strains. Which I didn't think had been decided yet, hence the request for a citation.

[knitty]

Dec 12, 2012 14:00:56 GMT -5 @mrdobalina said:

Isn't the flu shot sort of a scientific crapshoot? Because who knows what strain will be making the rounds in your area that year? I can kinda see why flu woulnd't be high on the MUST HAVE list..

Yeah, it's not a great vaccine, there's no need for a healthy non-geriatric adult in a not-required profession to get it.

Healthy adults gettin the vaccine is an American thing

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Flu-jab/Pages/Whyitshouldbedone.aspx

[sangria]

Dec 12, 2012 14:04:05 GMT -5 knitty said:

Dec 12, 2012 14:00:56 GMT -5 @mrdobalina said:

Isn't the flu shot sort of a scientific crapshoot? Because who knows what strain will be making the rounds in your area that year? I can kinda see why flu woulnd't be high on the MUST HAVE list..

Yeah, it's not a great vaccine, there's no need for a healthy non-geriatric adult in a not-required profession to get it.

Except don't certain strains seems to target healthy, adult lung tissue more than other groups like the elderly?

H5N1?

I could be wrong though.

[jaylea]

Dec 12, 2012 14:00:56 GMT -5 @mrdobalina said:

Isn't the flu shot sort of a scientific crapshoot? Because who knows what strain will be making the rounds in your area that year? I can kinda see why flu woulnd't be high on the MUST HAVE list..

This year it covers the strain, and this year's flu season is predicted to be pretty nasty. That, combined with the vast supply of vaccine, makes it a no brainer for a lot of folks.

I had the flu *once* in my life. Never, ever do I want that again. I was completely laid out on the couch for a full week.

[knitty]

Yes, the 1918 pandemic did that, I think SARS too. It was the vigorous immune response which caused the problems.

But none of the strains covered in the current ones are strains which do that. If a pandemic virus pops up which does that, I'll be in line for a vaccine for it.

[sangria]

Dec 12, 2012 14:11:37 GMT -5 toledo said:

Dec 12, 2012 14:00:56 GMT -5 @mrdobalina said:

Isn't the flu shot sort of a scientific crapshoot? Because who knows what strain will be making the rounds in your area that year? I can kinda see why flu woulnd't be high on the MUST HAVE list..

It really bugs when people call the flu shot a "crapshoot." Yes, the WHO, the CDC, and the FDA just pick a virus name out of a hat.

Wait....that's not how they do it? LOL