I am majorly pissed. Did I over react?- Updated!

[SusanBAnthony]

Update: Miss Kim just called me. This is cracking me up.

She is the ABA teacher, like DS said. She said that DS got off the bus, and she commented on his clip (just "oh you have a clip in"). DS told her "My mommy made me wear it, she says my hair is too long". So Miss Kim, being used to dealing mostly with ASD and sensory kids, told him, "now William, if your mommy says you need to get a hair cut, you need to listen to her and let her cut your hair. Boys wear there hair short and girls wear their hair long, and you need to listen to your mommy". Or something to that affect. She apologized for saying that and said she shouldn't have assumed that was the situation. But I do feel like she was just trying to help, and I appreciate her apology.

So all is well and that ends well, I guess.

*****************************************
OP:

DS occasionally wants to wear one of DD's hair things in his hair, and we let him. I steer him away from the really ribbony pink ones, but I figure who cares, he is 5? Today he wore a plain white plastic dog clip to preschool. When I put it in I said casually "you know girls usually are the only ones that were hair things, right? Its fine if you want to, but I just wanted to let you know". He still wanted to wear it.

It is slightly complicated by the fact that he has some social and speech delays so I don't want to make him fit in less. But not at the expense of him making his own choices about his body. There may or may not have been something said to him about it by a teacher (who really knows what happened, he is 5, but typically he is pretty accurate. Miss Kim is one of the ABA helpers, I think, who works on social skills. I don't know if that is relevant or not. This is the email I sent:

Hi Main Classroom Teacher,

William wore a barrette in his hair to school this morning. He came home with it in his bag. I assumed he either took it out of it fell out. However, he just told me that Miss Kim told him that boys don't wear barrettes, and took it out of his hair. Do you have any idea if that is true? If so I am disappointed he was told that by a teacher.

We think it is fine for him to wear barrettes if he wants to, and he is aware that typically girls wear them. We have taught him that it is his body and his choice how he wants to decorate it.

Thanks,

SBA

[SusanBAnthony]

Also, another side of vent, a mom friend of mine whose son rides DS's bus called me after bus pick-up and said, "Did you know William was wearing a barrette?" Um. Yes. I did in fact. Why the F is that worth a phone call to me. She didn't say anything mean, or snide, or anything, but still. What is wrong with people? This lady, bless her heart, has a husband who flips out if her son even holds a baby doll!

[drloretta]

I wouldn't have made a big deal out of it. I mean, you told him that girls are usually the only ones who wear barrettes, but you got upset because a teacher said more or less the same thing?

[zeewifeandmama]

Yeah that would piss me off if a teacher took it out of his hair... But I'm kind of sensitive about gender roles and stereotypes. Curious to see what the teacher says.

[ECB]

Dec 19, 2012 17:26:08 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

However, he just told me that Miss Kim told him that boys don't wear barrettes, and took it out of his hair.

This is the part that bothers me. If she did that, then yes, I would be upset. I think your email is fine. You didn't accuse w/o any basis, and you asked it as more of a question.

[Deleted]

I would have done the same thing. Let us know what happens.

[soozy87]

I wouldn't let my son wear something meant for a girl. But that is just me.

[countthestars]

Soozy, why not?

[SusanBAnthony]

I would not have a problem with the teacher saying something about barrettes begin for girls (well, I would be annoyed but I wouldn't have said anything). The fact that she took it out of his hair (maybe) is what makes me mad. I will update, hopefully she will email be back tomorrow. Tomorrow is the last day of school before break, though, so it may be hectic.

[yellowbrkrd]

I would be pissed. I'm curious to see what kind of reply you get.

[Deleted]

I think you handled it perfectly. I would be livid if indeed the teacher removed it.

[bronxgirl]

I think you handled it well.

[GailGoldie]

I would wait to be livid until you hear the story from the teacher. Children often do not communicate school stories well - change it up, etc. I used to teach kindergarten and some of the stories parents came in that their kids told them were SOOOO far from the truth that actually happened. I used to always tell parents "believe 1/2 of what you hear about school from your child and I'll only believe 1/2 of what they tell me about home" --- because there is usually another part to the story.

If the barrette was causing problems in the class- the teacher removing it was the right thing. I can imagine other 5yo's pointing it out all day long... making fun of him, etc - and in that case, I would have had him take it off, too. Just as if a girl wore wild blinking barrettes that were causing a distraction to the other students - I would remove it.

I'm all for letting kids be themselves --- but also try to limit what they do that might cause them issues at school. ie- my sons have baby dolls... they play with them at home- i let them bring them places, but wouldn't let them bring them to school where I can't monitor how the other kids are treating him b/c of it- knowing that many kids might pick on him b/c it's typically a girl toy. We have already had to deal with some little a-hole kids in school telling him "that's a baby toy" b/c he brought in a little stuffed snowman that happens to rattle (but it's far from a baby toy)... so, I can see how it would be a distraction to a classroom if kids were talking a lot about the barrette, etc.

talk to the teacher - always - before getting too angry.

[jackie011]

Totally agree with GailGoldie. I'm a Pre-K teacher and I'm trying to picture this happening in my class. It would create a huge distraction and the other boys would probably hound your kid about it and possibly start teasing him. Not saying it's right- just that that's how it would pan out with my group. Obviously, I would do anything to redirect and change the subject, but I can see where a teacher would try to avoid that all together by encouraging DS to take the clip out. However, I would have already communicated this to you in our usual means of communication so there would be no confusion.

Hopefully you'll get a quick response and it will make a little more sense.

[takeonyou]

I'd be aggravated. But maybe he was being teased and she wanted to help him out. I'm interested to hear her response.

[whitepicketfence]

I think your email was fine. It didn't come off as accusatory; it was merely asking for the teacher's version of what happened.

Let us know what her response is.

[auntie]

I'm going to be odd mom out here.

DS's psychologist would side with the teacher. He wrote this book-
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0399530703/ref=noism/oasisonlineasp07

There was a boy who came in just after us bacjk when DS was in first who also liked hair pins and such to keep the hair out of his eyes. I was a newbie and wondered why this was a hill to fight on. He explained it thusly:

You have a child who is already at risk for being ostracized because of his communication delays and atypical social development. He may not fully appreciate that his choice to wear a barette might cause some kids to think he's even more different and not in a good way because he may not have the theory of mind to understand that different people have different thoughts about things and that he has some measure of control around what other kids think of him based on how he acts and choices he makes. To allow him to "dress" in a manner that brings unfavorable attention is sort of throwing him to the wolves.

I can totally appreciate that you have an open mind and don't want to foster gender stereotypes and all that. I'm with you. But his peers are not the highly evolved unprejudiced creatures we'd all like them to be. I wish the world were different, but when it comes down to it, I have to raise my son to make his way in the world as it exists. Perhaps you could allow him to wear it at home?

Until a child truly comprehends the consequences of his choices, you have to look out for him. I wouldn't be surprized if the teacher made the hair ornament go away because it was attracting unkind attention from his peers.

BTW- I answered your PM.

[SusanBAnthony]

Auntie, that I why I question myself. Argh, I don't know. I struggle with this a lot. DS has always gravitated towards more "girl" activities, likes to away more with girls, is not a rough and tumble "all boy" kid. I do not want to do or say anything to him that will make him ever feel like he needs to fake being manly.

I might send the teacher a follow-up email letting her know that I just want to understand what happened so that I can talk to DS about it. He seemed confused and upset is probably too strong a word, but.... Just.... It didn't sit well with me. But I definitely can come off a little strong about gender issues, which I know is my own thing, and I don't want to project that on DS unnecessarily.

Auntie, I got your pm but haven't had time to respond.

[h]

I can understand why you would struggle with this issue in general--I would be very torn over how to make sure my kid could be himself while still doing what I could to help him fit in. But regardless about how you choose to address it, I think it was wrong of the teacher to take the clip out unless he wanted her to.

[readyin07]

I'm not sure the right call. All the different opinions voiced are correct. As goldie offered, I would probably wait to get the teacher's story to pull the outraged mom card and then weigh how you want to handle it.

[jena]

I can see auntie's point, but the teacher's (alleged) actions would irritate me too. I think your note was perfect.

I let my 3yo wear a princess dress to gymnastics on Halloween and he wore it again last week to walk down the block for school pickup. And he often has painted nails. I try to steer him towards neutral colors (we have green, blue, & orange polish), but I'm not going to fight him over it if he picks pink. He's sleeping in a Dora nightgown right now.

Honestly I don't even see it as being girly. He just wants to be like the big kids and big sister is what he models after.

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using proboards

[readyin07]

And this is why parenting is such a bi@#$. I totally get auntie's perspective on the need to sort of protect the child from himself...but then how do you make sure the child knows that you are 100% on his/her side in letting them be themselves and not having to conform to make other people comfortable/so they don't pick on you.

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2012 17:36:34 GMT -5 @vicmo said:

I think your reaction/email is fine. It's not just that she told him the same thing you did, but that she said "boys don't do this" and took it out of his hair.

Ditto. I would be annoyed if a teacher did that to DS, but not "majorly pissed." It's not like she said "stop acting like a girl" or something really rude.

[auntie]

Dec 19, 2012 22:06:11 GMT -5 readyin07 said:

And this is why parenting is such a bi@#$. I totally get auntie's perspective on the need to sort of protect the child from himself...but then how do you make sure the child knows that you are 100% on his/her side in letting them be themselves and not having to conform to make other people comfortable/so they don't pick on you.

Amen.

You can start by talking. A five is more than old enough to start getting the rudiments of the socially constructed standards for boy/girl behavior.

The thing is, school aged kids are hard wired for conformity. This is the world in which the child lives. It would be swell if we could let kids express themselves any way they choose, but it's a risky proposition for all but the most well developing alphas who can be different from a position of strength. I would be swell if I could wear my cozy bathrobe to the grocery store but I know it isn't appropriate.

My perspective is based on how you would deal with a kid on spectrum which may not apply here.

My son has Aspergers which rendered him rather less aware at parsing the norms of peer expectations as a younger kid. So part of my job as a parent has been to help him become aware these rules exist and help interpret them for him. Many parents on my forums report that their kids don't "get" gender rules the same way they don't "get" that it's uncool to pick your nose in public or blather on about arcane topics. Aspergers and other ASDs are a kind of social and emtional delay. A kid with an ASD might behave emotionally like someone half their age, so while a five might want to wear the princess dress because they think like a three, they're being judged in the real world as a five.

There have been times when I have had to confess that have had to just tell DS that I don't agree with or totally understand something but, as Sheldon Cooper would say, "it's a non-optional social convention".

My ex-BIL's youngest son has classic autism. He and his older brother asked for some dream pet things. The 5 1/2 asked for the penguin one, but the 4 1/2 is getting the "rainbow unicorn" and not because he's an ironic hipster. This thing was delivered to my house yesterday, OMG, it's "girlier" than Barbie.

[Deleted]

I agree with auntie. A child I used to babysit would often wear hair clips dressed up in girls clothes. At 3 his parents made the decision that he could dress however he wants in the house. When were going out he had to change into pants/ take out his bows ect. This rule also applied to his twin in that she was no longer allowed to leave the house wearing a lion costume with a tutu goulashes.

[agrippa]

I am torn as well. On the one hand, I know that auntie is right (my 4.5 year old boy is delayed socially as well), but on the other hand, I don't want him to be ashamed of or upset about what he likes. We have rules about other activities in public (he pretends to be some sort of vehicle and can't break free of the game to interact with others) so I think we might have to add "wear boy clothes" to the list of rules. At home, we're going to let him go for it though. Want to play hairdresser with the butterfly clips and be the Mommy when we play house? Sure.

[spk926]

Have you heard back from the teacher yet?

[Deleted]

I understand the varying viewpoints on this but I still find it disturbing that the solution would be to stifle one child's individual choice as opposed to disciplining the children who may be teasing him about that choice.

[h]

Dec 20, 2012 11:32:16 GMT -5 @libgrl said:

I understand the varying viewpoints on this but I still find it disturbing that the solution would be to stifle one child's individual choice as opposed to disciplining the children who may be teasing him about that choice.

Well, in this case it doesn't sound like there was any teasing--hopefully had there been the teacher would have corrected that behavior. I think it would be possible for the teacher to both correct any teasing and also gently guide the child who is wearing the clip toward behavior that is less likely to result in getting teased. But as to the greater issue, I think the problem is that it is simply not possible to effectively use discipline to stop all the comments and teasing that a child might get from peers at schools, peers outside of school, random people he encounters in the grocery store, etc. In a controlled preschool environment, a teacher can obviously correct a child who teases another kid for dressing like a girl. But what about when those same kids are pre-teens and teenagers who encournter one another in plenty of places where there is no teacher to discipline? Not to mention the fact that by the time a child has spent much of elementary school being teased, it is possible that damage to that kid's self-esteem has been done, regardless of whether the teasers were disciplined for their behavior. All else being equal, I would rather my kids not be teased in the first place than that they be teased and the teasers disciplined later.

Obviously the ideal would be to move away from such a gendered view of the world so that kids grow up thinking that wearing a hair clip is simply a matter of personal choice and not an expression of gender. I am all for striving for that. But I think that as parents we also have to recognize that the ideal we may strive for looks much different than the reality that our kids have to live with. Teaching a child that any individual choice they make with respect to their appearance and how they present themselves is good does not set them up to succeed in a world where how you present yourself matters a great deal.

[Deleted]

I think taking this to "what about when he's a teenager" is kind of ridiculous.

Without the other half of the story - whether there was teasing, what the teacher said, and if she actually took it off for him without asking him - this is all hearsay and we really can't comment meaningfully. But extrapolating that if we don't teach 4 and 5 year olds to fall in line that they'll be teased into high school is sad.