[update] My weekend in review.

[rpark]

I met with him on Friday. I just wasn't ready to call it quits. I'm sorry. I appreciate all your words and they did help me be strong throughout the conversation, so I hope you all don't feel like your words were wasted. I plan on continuing to talk to you all and hope to continue these conversations with you as they give me more confidence and hope than I've had in years.

Anyway, on to the story if you're interested. We met on Friday after work at a restaurant. It was awkward. He basically summed it up with these thoughts, "I need to work on a solution. I'd like that solution to be us in a happy marriage. However you are holding up that decision. So until then I've got to work on some solution, and the only other one I see is divorce." So he wanted to talk about diving up the assets and how to end it without getting lawyers involved. He wants to keep the house and all the stuff, he offered me a check of a certain amount to walk away from it all. Ouch. Walking away from 6 years of my life. That was hard to hear.

However I held strong. I told him I didn't think it was beneficial to talk divorce if we are going to try to get better. I said it seemed like it would be impossible to improve if he had one foot out the door already. He agreed but said that's just the way it is. I was calm. I didn't give in or show emotion when he get angry/upset. I stated that I understood that he was upset that I wasn't at home but this is what I need right now. I said our time together has been angry/resentful and causing us to get worse and by staying with my parents and controlling when we spend time together, we can focus on making it productive and working on the issues. I also told him the things I need to change with our dynamic. I can't handle the controlling behavior for things he doesn't have a right to control (my physical appearance, my hobbies/interests, my free time). I also need him to work on his criticism of me (the sunglasses example) when I do something he doesn't agree with. He said while he doesn't necessarily agree, he would try to work on those if he got what he wanted (me putting him first ahead of my friends/family/hobbies/etc.).

We ended the dinner with him asking me to come home and hang out but I declined. Instead I went for a drive and just listened to music. That was Friday. I also saw him during the weekend and we had a counseling appointment on Monday, not sure if you guys want to hear about that but I'm willing to share.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts and please feel free to share more. I read every comment and take it to heart.

[geekgirl]

I definitely want to hear about the counseling session. Also, can you tell us if you've told the counselor the stuff you've told us (the sunglasses/hair examples)?

Please tell us that his "if he got what he wanted" stuff sent up a bunch of red flags. Please tell us that you see that he's not really willing to work on those things and that you can see through the BS.

Also, the fact that he's already planning for divorce if you don't do what he tells you is a HUGE red flag. His version of a "happy marriage" is him dictating everything.

Also, there's a thread addressed to you that has all sorts of helpful information in it. PLEASE check it out, OK?

If I were you, I'd take the check and run far, far away. (But that's just me and I know its easier said than done.)

Whatever you do, please take care of yourself.

{{hugs}}

[Deleted]

Have you told the counselor more about these controlling behaviors?

[wrathofkuus]

So what he was saying is, come home and put up with things as-is or he's out, and that's just the way it is. Great guy.

[broc]

First of all, thanks so much for coming back and updating us. I know I wasn't the only one who was worried about you this weekend!

As far as everything else goes, honestly I wasn't really expecting you to totally up & leave immediately. For most women it takes several tries to leave for good, and that's OK. A lot of what he said is very troubling though, you see that, right? That unless you give up seeing your friends, family and all your hobbies he's "allowed" to dictate your personal appearance (among other things).

One thing I will add is that if you two do divorce, DO NOT under any circumstances do it without legal counsel.

[rpark]

I can talk about Monday's session. She does know about some of the specific incidents as they come up. We've talked about the hair dye thing a few times. There's been others (for example, he got mad at me because I use the dish towel in the kitchen to wipe down the counter and he says I can only use it to dry my clean hands. We talked quite a bit about that). She has told me in private that he does display controlling behavior, but doesn't believe it's malicious, and does believe he can get better.

Anyway, on Monday we updated her about us. The fact that I was still at my parents, what we talked about on Friday. She thinks we're getting distracted by little arguments. For example his big issue is I'm not spending enough time with him because I go to the gym and see my friends/family. She thinks that we need to focus more on recognizing our baggage from our past (His controlling behavior and my conflict avoidance) and understanding how it is playing out in our relationship today. She thinks we need to talk more about our emotions and try to bond through our understanding of each other.

She said that while we are apart we should try to date each other. Make plans to spend time together and have fun together.

I should note that she is very good to never say 'you guys will get better' or whatever. She tries very hard to stay vague and says more like 'if you decide to work this out you will both need to work at it' kind of thing. *shrug*

[Muddled]

Did you dye your hair?

I would have a really hard time believing him when he said that he wanted to work on things considering that he has an entire divorce plan in place. I suggest you go ahead and start the search for a lawyer, even if you feel like you may not need one. Many offer free consultations and it can't hurt.

I'm glad that you stuck to your guns about what you need in order for this marriage to work. I'm glad that you are not going back to the house, but are staying with your parents. Good for your for remaining calm and for staying out in public.

You know that there is nothing you can do to change him if he doesn't want to change, right?

How do you feel about his response? Do you agree with him when he says that you prioritize your family/friends/hobbies over him?

[wrathofkuus]

Does it really matter whether the controlling behavior is malicious in intent? The bottom line is, he thinks you're his stuff, that he owns, and therefore he gets to say how you look and behave. I don't know how this therapist thinks that underlying truth is going to change, even if he loosens up slightly and "allows" you to dye your hair or choose your own sunglasses.

[rpark]

Just more random thoughts - hope you guys don't mind! lol This helps me organize my thoughts.

I read TIP before and wanted to get opinions on this stuff years ago but was afraid to because he knew I read the nest and would scan the boards a lot. I knew he'd recognize anything I posted. Now that you guys are over here I'm pretty sure he doesn't know about it (I hope) but I still am anxious about putting it 'out there'.

The night before our session he wanted to go out for dinner but then changed his mind saying he was at his parents. The next day he came clean and said he went to a speed dating thing and got 2 girls numbers. He said he felt guilty for lying and wanted me to know. That sucked to hear.

After our session on Monday we got lunch together. It was strained but I was trying. He asked if I wanted to come over later in the day to watch a movie and I said, "I'm not sure what my plans are. Maybe?". He got furious, like, immediately. I'm not sure why. He actually got up and left the restaurant for 10-15 minutes. Then sat in silence for the rest of it. Later that night we talked and I tried to understand why he was so angry and he said it's because I'm not trying hard enough to fix this.

Just this morning he sent me an email with about 4 links to websites talking about how important it is to spend time together in a marriage or it's pretty much doomed. All these things make it feel like he's saying it's my fault we're having difficulties, but I'm not sure if I should address that knowing how angry he'll get.

[motzie]

Thank you for updating.

Your counselor is nuts. Try to date each other? This situation is beyond dating and reconnecting.

He doesn't even agree that his behavior is controlling. Please, please, demand better for yourself. He is so quick to go to divorce, and I think you should let him. I know it is hard to walk away, and to feel like you are giving up, but it will be so good for you.

[Deleted]

I haven't given you advice yet, but I don't think I can keep it in anymore.

He told you about the speed dating to make you jealous. He then thought he would be able to get you to come over so he could continue to woo you. When that didn't work he got angry. First, good for you for sticking to your guns. Second, DO NOT believe the version of him that was being lovey. The fact that he reacted so strongly immediately is NOT NORMAL. It's not healthy and frankly, he sounds like someone who will become dangerous. This is not healthy behavior.

You're far better off without him. You should never ever have to sit around wondering why your husband reacted so extremely in any situation. Aren't you tired of trying to figure out what will set him off?

[rpark]

May 29, 2012 10:49:08 GMT -5 Muddled said:

How do you feel about his response? Do you agree with him when he says that you prioritize your family/friends/hobbies over him?

I am frustrated at his response but am trying hard to see his point of view. I agree that I enjoy those things more than spending time with him at this point in our marriage because of these issues - but that I am trying hard to continue to work on getting us better and not giving up on us. He doesn't agree and doesn't think I am working hard enough because I continue to do those things when I should be focusing all on fixing us. (Does that make sense? It's confusing to me, so it's hard to explain lol)

[sparkles17]

Holy shitballs! You are "trying" to work on your marriage and he's Speed Dating? Oh my effing God! GTFO! Seriously, each update that you post I get more angry and upset. How can you not see what he is doing to you?

Oh and your therapist? Yeah, you need to dump her. Run, do not walk, to individual counselling and work on YOU! Maybe then you will see that this is just not a marriage worth saving.

[Deleted]

I love that he thinks you're not trying hard enough but he's the one speeddating and shit.

Oh honey, he's getting what he wants here, slowly but surely.

And yeah, he's saying it's your fault, that if only you'd come home, and get over it, everything would be okay. The reason he got angry at lunch yesterday is because he isn't getting what he wants. He's angry because he honestly believes you're just being twattish and that you should be ever s grateful for his least bit of effort and do exactly as he wants accordingly.

He is so bad for you. And I agree with kuus that it doesn't matter whether his manipulation is malicious in intent. It's malicious in practice and that's all that counts. Whether he means to or not, he is constantly and persistantly breaking you down.

[beebeeeater]

I have a question. If you were single and free and you dated a guy who acted like this, would you keep seeing him? If it was your sister or our best friend, would you advise them to date a guy like this?

You deserve better. You just do. I'm sorry that this is the reality of your situation, but I think you know this is past the point where it can be saved and that's why you're hesitating every step of the way.

[Muddled]

The man went speed dating. His decision. All on his own. How is this your fault?

Do you have any evidence at all that he wants to work on this? I'm sorry, but everything you have said so far has shown that he is not willing to change a thing.

He knows that you are more invested in this than he is. He is willing to walk away. He thinks that if he does, you will beg for him to come back-- like bargaining at an Asian market. He is saying that what you have to offer isn't that special and he can find the same goods elsewhere at a better price. How much are you worth?

[broc]

If you want, you can feel free to edit your posts and remove what you feel is IDing info. We're kind of shanky bitches but I am once again speaking for the WHOLE OF TIP when I say that we want you to feel as safe as possible here and won't be bitches about it or repost if you DD.

In terms of thinking it through from his point of view, I think you should take a minute and think about what his reaction, and your reaction would be were the conversation flipped. How he would react if you blithely mentioned speed dating. Would you stalk away in a rage when you suggested a movie and he was ambivalent about it?

[Deleted]

And while I can't lie and say I don't think you should leave him like yesterday, I am ridiculously proud of you for not just giving in and going back. Throughout this post, we can all see how strong you are. Everytime you stand up for yourself, you get just a wee bit more power back. Continue to hold firm here.

Sure, I'd love it if you left completely but don't go back under these circumstances.

Please think about individual counseling.

[Muddled]

May 29, 2012 10:58:28 GMT -5 rpark said:

May 29, 2012 10:49:08 GMT -5 Muddled said:

How do you feel about his response? Do you agree with him when he says that you prioritize your family/friends/hobbies over him?

I am frustrated at his response but am trying hard to see his point of view. I agree that I enjoy those things more than spending time with him at this point in our marriage because of these issues - but that I am trying hard to continue to work on getting us better and not giving up on us. He doesn't agree and doesn't think I am working hard enough because I continue to do those things when I should be focusing all on fixing us. (Does that make sense? It's confusing to me, so it's hard to explain lol)

How hard is he working?


Please please please find an individual just for you counselor.

[wrathofkuus]

Would he be so forgiving, I wonder, if you were the one who went speed-dating and got two guys' numbers?

Honestly, I don't think it would be the worst thing in the world if he DID read your posts and all your responses. I suspect no one in his life ever tells him what a completely worthless shit human being he is, and frankly, he needs to hear it.

[rpark]

"He's angry because he honestly believes you're just being twattish and that you should be ever s grateful for his least bit of effort and do exactly as he wants accordingly."

--I agree with this and this makes me sad and angry and confused and all sorts of things. lol

"I have a question. If you were single and free and you dated a guy who acted like this, would you keep seeing him?"

--Sadly, I would not. When he was explaining why he got so angry he said "If we were just dating and I asked you if you wanted to hang and you said maybe I would stop dating you immediately assuming you were not fully invested in it." And I thought to myself, "Wow, really? Because of one word?" <sadface>

"I think you should take a minute and think about what his reaction, and your reaction would be were the conversation flipped."

--He would be furious. He would end it in anger without a second thought. <more sadface>

"I am ridiculously proud of you ..."

--NOT SADFACE! Thank you mucho - that means a lot. <girl brofist>

[rpark]

He's really honed in on this dating idea from the counselor and is trying to plan as many 'dates' as he can. So in that sense he is working on things..? Right?

[gault]

He's trying every little duck and dodge ploy to get you to come back. The speed dating, the lying about it to hurt you, the saying "well, this is YOUR fault, and I want a divorce and never come back here"...this is all trying to get you to say I WAS WRONG, PLEASE CONTROL ME. This is ALL he wants. Not love, not mutual respect, but control.

I'm glad you were calm and were able to tell him things you haven't brought up before, plus not moving back in. All good progress. But PLEASE, if you do nothing else right now, get your own counselor. One who has YOUR interests at heart, and who will help you cut through his manipulations in order to see everything clearly. It seems like you're not able to do that yet - this guy has you in his smokescreen.

[hubes]

Please find an individual counselor. This is so overplayed, but what would you say to your daughter if she told you her husband was acting like yours?

He wants you out. He's dating the day before your session. He asked you to walk away from your life. He's only going to get worse, and he has put you in the position he wants you in. You want him more than he wants you.

Please, I'm begging you, to think more of yourself and know that you deserve more.

[Deleted]

May 29, 2012 11:13:47 GMT -5 rpark said:

He's really honed in on this dating idea from the counselor and is trying to plan as many 'dates' as he can. So in that sense he is working on things..? Right?

Working on further manipulating you, yes.

Because he can be all, I'm DOING what the counselor said and you're not!!!! Meanwhile, watch him continue to talk smack to you, threatening divorce, throwing grade A hissy fits if you turn down one of his dates, and still continuing to treat you like a piece of property.

[rpark]

May 29, 2012 11:15:22 GMT -5 hubes said:

He wants you out. He's dating the day before your session. He asked you to walk away from your life. He's only going to get worse, and he has put you in the position he wants you in. You want him more than he wants you.

I hope you don't think I'm being argumentative - I'm really not. But I'm confused because he says the exact opposite. That he wants this to work more than me. That he can't understand why I don't want him - why I don't want to spend all this time with him, go on all these dates with him, etc. etc. How do I know what's real?

[Deleted]

The thing is, he doesn't want you gone per se. What he wants is someone to conform to his standards and if he can't get you to do so, he'll look for a new victim. That's what this is about. It's a double edged sword. He wants you to come home, yes but he wants you to come home under his terms and if he can't get that, he'd like to have something waiting in the wings. Bonus points if this idea of a replacement gets you panicked enough to give into his demands.

[interro]

May 29, 2012 11:17:02 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

May 29, 2012 11:13:47 GMT -5 rpark said:

He's really honed in on this dating idea from the counselor and is trying to plan as many 'dates' as he can. So in that sense he is working on things..? Right?

Working on further manipulating you, yes.

Because he can be all, I'm DOING what the counselor said and you're not!!!! Meanwhile, watch him continue to talk smack to you, threatening divorce, throwing grade A hissy fits if you turn down one of his dates, and still continuing to treat you like a piece of property.

Yep, all of this is what he's doing.

Rpark, I'm proud of you for not running back and just giving in. I hope you continue to find strength to take action. Please also seek out an individual counselor. You deserve so much better than this.

[Deleted]

May 29, 2012 11:18:36 GMT -5 rpark said:

I hope you don't think I'm being argumentative - I'm really not. But I'm confused because he says the exact opposite. That he wants this to work more than me. That he can't understand why I don't want him - why I don't want to spend all this time with him, go on all these dates with him, etc. etc. How do I know what's real?

The thing is, he doesn't want you rpark. He wants you the woman who will do what he wants.

He's put 6 years into breaking you down, manipulating you, making you into the girl who conforms to his will if he looks at you wrong. That's who he wants, that girl, that person. It's about control.

He doesn't want to let you go because quite simply, he thinks you are his his, you are his possession. To him, you are like a car that he bought and put a lot of work into making over. Can he go get another car? Sure, but then he had to put all that work back into making it what he wants.

But does he value you are a person?

Can you tell me some ways in which he values you as an individual? For what you are and not for what you give him?

[smock]

Uh, but is he planning dates with you, or with other girls?

Did you tell the counselor about his "speed dating" adventure?

Also, like Habs I am super impressed that you aren't falling for his manipulations and that you were able to stay calm when he acted like a dick. I really do hope that you realize how strong you are, and that you deserve way better! I'd also suggest getting into individual counseling, because your couples counselor is an idiot and it would be good for you to have someone focused just on YOU.

And remind yourself that a REAL partner wants you to be happy--if that means going to the gym, or seeing your friends, or dying your hair. Your H only cares about himself, not about you.