We live in a tiny house, drive modest cars, etc, etc.
I am so thankful that we have been savers and not spenders, but the savings won't last forever.
At one point in time our e-fund had 3 years of expenditures in it. We are nowhere near that now. In the next month or two, I am expecting 10k of medical bills, which I will be able to pay no problem. But we won't make enough to replace that money. And there will be more medical bills this year (I am estimating another 5k) and more next year, and hopefully more the year after that.
It feels like a stupid question, but our savings can't sustain us forever. So two years from now, WTH do I do? We will likely need a new roof at some point, and our 11 year old car won't last forever (that's hoping DH is able to drive again at some point)
I could cut cable and pull my DD from dance lessons right now, but those are just tiny drops in the bucket compared to the bills coming in the next few years.
How does one plan for something like this? I know we will run out of money and I don't know how to stop it. I feel like I should be planning or making changes now to address our future problems, but I dont know what to do. Any advice?
I am sorry. My only advice is to make payments on the medical bills. I have had large medical expenses and was able to pay as little as $10 a month. Just so long you are making payments the hospital doesn't mind you carrying a balance. Can your DH file for Social Security Disability to help with some income?
DH's surgery was in December, and we still have approx 3,500 to hit 2012's OOPM, so I am guessing the bills for brain surgery will get us there. Then, he is doing chemo/radiation and more MRI's and specialists and what not will get us to his 2013 OOPM of 5,000 at some point.
Plus, I have a separate plan, and my OOPM is 3,500 in an HSA, so I know I will hit that with L&D expenses.
Plus, we are likely inducing at 36 weeks, so there is a good chance baby will have NICU time. I have no idea how much that would cost us.
The 15k coming up is a rough estimate, but the best I can guess at for now. Both DH and I are getting new policies, so I am not quite sure how to predict some of the costs quite yet.
Post by Balki.Bartokomous on Jan 2, 2013 0:59:25 GMT -5
That is tough. Definitely have your DH file for SS disability.
Have you posted your budget? I hate to tell you to pull your DD out of dance right now, but it sounds as if going bare bones as soon as possible is the only way to get a head start on this.
DH is actually still employed and getting benefit payments from his employer, so we are a ways off from needing to file for disability.
I just hate to pull DD from dance - it is 38/month (cheap, I know) and she loves it. Doesn't seem worth it when you compare to the dollar amount of the bills coming at us. And cable - DH is stranded at home all day and lives his ESPN, seems harsh to cut that too.
I wish there was some magical solution...
And, I have posted a budget awhile back. I negotiated lots of our bills and got some big cuts. And I have been going over the numbers tonight. Cutable items right now are cable, dance, and possibly one of our cell phone plans. The cell cuts would save us 20ish/month, which again, just doesn't seem worth it. We easily afford our bills month to month, it is the huge expenses that are scaring me.
If it ever looked like DH was at the point of never driving again, we could cut a car, which would save 75/month in insurance.
Also, our debts are mortgage, student loans and car
The car only has a couple payments left and is at 0% - the money for payoff is set aside The student loans have varying rates - I was planning on paying off most of them, but am now thinking I am better off holding onto the cash. (right?)
I'm sorry you are struggling with all of this. I am normally a super anal retentive planner, but if you truly have 2 years of an emergency fund built up, I wouldn't stress about this until after your child is born and you are back to sleeping regularly and your H is in a better spot. Just do the best you can for the moment and continue to rely on your family for help and support.
I know you are right, but I am a super anal retentive planner too. Planning helps me deal with stress. I can handle plans changing, but I can't handle not having a plan (if that makes sense)
With the latest round of checks I wrote, I saw our checking/savings that are linked drop below 50k for the first time in a very, very long time. It is still a lot of money to be sure, but it was just kind of a wakeup call.
(and yes, MM can slap my hand, we have way too much money just sitting in a savings account)
Post by Balki.Bartokomous on Jan 2, 2013 1:32:26 GMT -5
Well, once the car is paid off, that's some $ that can be diverted to the medical bills, no? That's a good start.
Don't pay off the SL as long as the rates are low-ish. If they're your DH's SL, then there's always the possibility of deferring them.
Is your DH getting wages from his work or benefits? It's been a good 5 years since I worked for SSA, so my memory may be fuzzy, but if he's not working & earning wages (both parts are key), he should talk to SSA. Benefit payments are not wages, I think. Check into it.
Since it seems like it helps you mentally to plan, what about planning the next steps of your career, figuring out ways to increase your income potential, etc.? That might help with the stress a bit.
Are you contributing to a 401K now? You can always divert some of that into something more liquid but with less risk, like bonds, so that you have access to the cash now should you need it.
I missed the backstory on this. I'm so sorry you are going through this.
15k OOP a year for your medical insurance seems like a lot...any chance you can switch to better insurance? I have a terrible plan and even mine isn't that bad.
Is it prescription drugs that are expensive? I believe some drug companies have assistance.
Can your DH get another job with group insurance?
I feel for you---what about disability, like Aflac, etc, or SSDI? I could be totally wrong about all this stuff, just trying to think about the slowly draining medical bills.
Can you get a raise? Or start a second job or side job to break even on the medical expenses and stop dipping into savings to preserve it?
Can you drop your DH from insurance for right now and stop driving his car? Add him back when he is healthy.
Have you considered having your church or friends host a spaghetti dinner, etc, for you guys? That can help with some of the costs (I know it is tough to ask, but just a thought).
Thank you all for the suggestions and feedback. Here are some answers to questions. Please poke holes in any of my responses. I just feel like a freight train is way, way, down the tracks and I should do something now, while I can. Otherwise 2 years from now I am going to be going, "oh, shit..."
Your premiums will probably be higher, but would it help if you and your H plus kids were all on the same plan so you wouldn't be splitting the bills between two OOPM? What is the family OOP max on each plan? Are they high-deductible plans? Since the new baby will be a life event, if you changed your insurance when the baby is born, will the NICU bills (hopefully there won't be any) be covered under the new insurance plan? (I.e., is the insurance back-dated to his birth?) You might come out ahead with a plan with higher premiums but lower OOPM.
When we were choosing insurance for the year, I ran a scenario, assuming we both had a high medical cost year, and (considering premiums + OOPM) it is cheaper for us to be on separate plans, and the kids on his plan. I have a high deductible plan, he does not.
I missed the backstory on this. I'm so sorry you are going through this.
15k OOP a year for your medical insurance seems like a lot...any chance you can switch to better insurance? I have a terrible plan and even mine isn't that bad. I honestly don't think it is *that* bad. Remember, the 15k coming at me is because my husband had a very expensive procedure done right at the end of 2012, so the bills haven't rolled through yet. The 15k includes two years of medical bills that are all going to hit us first quarter.
Is it prescription drugs that are expensive? I believe some drug companies have assistance. My prescription is $75/day, but because I have a HDHP, it counts towards my OOPM
Can your DH get another job with group insurance? No. He is currently out on FMLA, 3 weeks into up to 24 weeks of paid leave. His current benefits are awesome and it would be stupid for him to leave a job with good benefits, especially since he wouldn't have FMLA coverage at a new employer.
Can you get a raise? Or start a second job or side job to break even on the medical expenses and stop dipping into savings to preserve it? I am a CPA - audit manager in a firm. I am pretty sure my firm would be furious if I got another job. I just received a 7% raise a couple months ago, so I am sure they would laugh at me if I asked for more.
Can you drop your DH from insurance for right now and stop driving his car? Add him back when he is healthy. I can look into this. Does anyone know if the insurance company will ask why I am dropping him? I don't want them to raise our rates when we add him back on for not having continuance car insurance or any of that jazz. We don't have a garage to park in, so I would still need to keep some sort of coverage on the car.
Can you negotiate the amounts paid? For the medical bills? I had heard great things on MM about doing this, so last time that DH had surgery, I tried it with absolutely no luck. They acted like I was crazy. Any tips how to do this?
Make smaller payments? Like, don't pay off all the medical bills as they come due, even if I can?
Deduct any of this on taxes? 2011 we weren't able to - the limit is just so high. We'll have to see how 2013 plays out.
2nd job? I know it is rough...my Mom worked a few jobs when my Dad got sick. Luckily my Grandma was around to watch us a lot. I know this should be a viable option - if I can't cut expenses, I need to raise revenue, right? I just don't know how to do it. I work so much already, I can't imagine working away the rest of our family time.
I would speak to the financial department at the hospital, tell them you just can't pay and speak to a manager. My brother couldnt afford both deliveries for his kids at 5k and they are letting him pay 50 a month until probably the end of time. If I was that in dire straights I would get a second job though just to reassure myself I have enough money just in case something happened.
If your husband isn't driving right now I would call your insurance company and as about temporarily suspending his coverage and coverage on the car he usually drives. My parents did this when i was in college as the first two years I only drove my car when I was back home visiting.
If they won't allow that, maybe you can get the car listed as a recreational vehicle? Typically much cheaper to insure.
- When I had my first heart surgery it was a new, breakthrough, expensive procedure. One of the first things my cardiologist told me when I found out I needed that surgery, was that if I didn't have great insurance he could try to get me enrolled into a medical study. Even when a procedure/medication has been approved, there are many studies out there that just want to monitor patients. This can significant drive down medical costs as many of the big expenses (MRIs, etc.) are covered. Can you ask his doctor about that?
- Childcare - I assume this will increase once the baby is here? Have you looked into less expensive daycare centers? I know it's hard to leave one you love, but there might be another out there that you would like just as much.
- Does your husband use his cell phone much? If not, how would he do with a pay as you go plan?
- He mainly cares about ESPN. Are there any base cable plans that offer bare bones channels and include ESPN? Can it be subscribed to online or with some online TV program?
- If he's homebound lately, do you have more time on weekends to go through your daughter's closet and consign her clothes? That could be a good habit to get into.
-don't cut dance class -don't overpay or aggressively pay any loans that don't have to be paid (SL's, etc)
I am still not sure how your OOP costs are so high, but I will come back and look at the numbers again when I get to my computer.
I agree with both of these. I am a planner too, so I know this has to be hard on you.
Unfortunately, no matter how prepared you are, we are simply unable to tackle some things on our own. When you're ready, I would have a serious talk with your family (you have posted in the past about their great support) about what could be done in the worst case scenario(s). I know it wouldn't be ideal, but if your savings were completely wiped and you couldn't pay the bills (it doesn't sound like you are there at all though!) you could move into a family member's basement and rent out your house until you could get back on your feet? I think it would help me to feel like I had a back up "plan" in case everything else failed.
You are seriously superwoman right now with everything you are dealing with. Hang in there and keep us posted.
I would speak to the financial department at the hospital, tell them you just can't pay and speak to a manager. My brother couldnt afford both deliveries for his kids at 5k and they are letting him pay 50 a month until probably the end of time. If I was that in dire straights I would get a second job though just to reassure myself I have enough money just in case something happened.
Did I see you mention elsewhere you had a major drop in income? Years ago when I applied for financial assistance from the hospital and all they asked for were my paystubs and previous tax returns? Maybe now you will qualify.
Any chance the most recent surgery will count towards 2013 since it will not be billed until then? Would that help?
Can you do individual tax returns before the baby is born? I do not know how you would possibly have time with all the demands you have, but my CPA friend charges $100 a return and it takes her minimal time to complete.
I'm going to disagree with anyone who tells you to drop dance classes and get a second job.
You have a high stress job, you're pregnant, and your husband has very serious medical problems. You do not need to go out and get a second job. Dances classes are probably helping your daughter cope and you need all the time with your family that you can get.
That said, you said your savings dropped below $50k recently, so I'm assuming you still have a pretty decent chunk in there, enough to cover your OOP max for a few years, since you can pay your regular bills okay.
I think you need to just get through this year and stop worrying about it. A lot can happen in a year. Keep doing what you do. If it starts getting low (under $10k), then start applying for financial assistance through the hospital and other organizations and make payments, and then maybe look at restructuring the budget.
Just hang in there & make payments! I wouldn't nec. pay the next large bills in full, I would ask to be on a payment plan. Even tho you guys may have the cash, you don't know what the future holds.
I would go on a payment plan with the hospitals and keep that money in savings as much as you can. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this while going through everything else.
Post by beachdweller on Jan 2, 2013 9:37:01 GMT -5
I am mostly a lurker, but have been following your story. I am so sorry you are going through this -- hang in there!
I would not cut dance class, cable or small things that are improving your family's quality of life right now -- this is such a hard time and there is just not enough "bang for your buck" in cutting that. Also, I would not pick up a bunch of extra work right now -- spend this precious time with your family.
I am a health care lawyer, so I have a little bit of advice on the medical bill side. Chances are, the "private" providers -- physician (unless employed by the hospital), anesthesia, radiology, etc. won't negotiate too much. They would likely give you prompt pay discounts, so I'd call about that then pay those bills. The hospital bills though (which will be the largest chunk) probably have a lot of wiggle room. Most hospitals have a type of "charity care" for situations like this known as catostrophic care. Basically, it discounts your copays and deductibles when you have massive medical bills without regard to income. Remember, the hospital is getting a shit ton of money from your insurer, so discounting your 15k is really a drop in the bucket for them and they get to count it toward their "charity care" calculations, which they get some reimbursement from the feds for. I would not try to negotiate with a person answering the phone. Instead, ask for the Patient Financial Services Manager and start working with them. I'd be shocked if they don't work with you. Also, may payments of whatever debt you do owe if having money in the bank would make you feel better -- almost all hospitals have interest free repayment plans that they will work out with you.
Good luck to you -- you and your family have been in my thoughts.
I'm sorry you're going through this and angry that even a family with north of 50K in savings has to worry about affording life-saving procedures.
Is there a chance with the large medical expenses and the baby that your taxes will be significantly different this year? Maybe you'll be able to adjust your withholding and put more of that money into savings?
Are you currently putting any other money into savings?
This might be a risky suggestion, but I think I'd consider taking a portion of your efund and investing it (maybe 15K?). You have the benefit of quite a bit of cash that could be earning more for you over the next couple years. I'm guessing that's going to be a better fit than a second job given everything that's on your plate.
Ditto everyone who says keep the dance class, cell phone and cable. All told cutting those only saves you $100ish a month and that's a drop in the bucket for you.
Ditto trying to negotiate payment on the hospital bills too. I have a co worker who negotiated his after his daughter was born and payed it off over 2 years. They could afford to pay in full, but didn't want to and the hospital let them pay it off slowly. I'm sure they'd work with you.
Is your husband expected to make enough of a recovery to work again?
Is your daughter at a day care center? I would speak to the director. We have a huge fund set aside for emergency scholarships, beyond the usual scholarship deadline. This fund is set aside for parents suddenly losing jobs, medical emergencies, custody situations.
I'm also a lurker, and sorry you are going through this. I'm not sure what your DH's prognosis is, and it sounds like the plan is for him to go back to work eventually, but I'd talk to a disability lawyer now about your options. My dad had melanoma with brain involvement. He was approved right away but there's a five month waiting period for benefits. If YH gets approved, it might give you some better options for healthcare and the student loans if DH is out of work longer than you hope. Medicare kicks in after 2 years of SSDI, and student loans can be cancelled in some cases of disability. I know you are not really at that point yet, and it can be scary to have so much uncertainty about the future, but if you are a planner then looking into these things might help you to feel better.
Definitely look into deferment for any of DH's subsidized student loans. That will free up some money so you won't have to tap the efund as heavily.
Post by aurademystere on Jan 2, 2013 10:51:55 GMT -5
Apply for Social Security now. Depending on his condition, your H may qualify for a compassionate allowance. www.ssa.gov/compassionateallowances/
Even if he doesn't meet the requirements for a compassionate allowance, applying for benefits can be a long process, so it's better get an early start. Like pp mentioned, there is a 5 month waiting period for benefits to begin and medicare eligibility kicks in 24 months after the onset of disability, so again, it's better to get in the process sooner rather than later.
It also sounds like he is receiving short-term disability. If that is converted to long-term disability, most long-term disability companies require that the recipient apply for SSD.