Robb Wolf critiques CrossFit

[blinkinglight1]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnPA3znZjGs

^^ not work/kid safe.

I know there are probably just a few of you who might want to listen to this, but I'd be interested to discuss it.

[danielle]

I listened and am now a little worried about getting started. I hope some of you guys weigh in with your opinions. I am really interested to hear your thoughts.

[starryfish]

I cant watch at work. Can someone summarize? I do crossfit

[finallykrisb]

A little google research pointed to the fact that Robb Wolf and CF HQ have had bad blood since Robb was let go quite dramatically in 2009. This podcast was released 2 years later which tells me that it's more than likely based highly on opinion and Rob wouldn't be the most objective person.

That being said, he does make good points about there being little to no quality control among to CF affiliates and CF coaches. As long as they pay their dues and attend the seminar they can use the CF name. CF HQ has no say in the way the boxes are run.

Use good judgement. If the coaches push you to sacrifice form to complete a WOD, if they don't ask in depth about what your fitness background is and what your limitations are, if they only seem to really care about their "elite" athletes, then run for the hills. But don't let this podcast scare you away.

[suzyp]

Agree with KrisB, there is a HUGE history of the falling out between Robb Wolfe and HQ. My understanding is that it stems from CF's nutritional decisions. I believe that CF is techinically aligned with the Zone Diet and not Paleo and there's some deeper underlying issues that led to this decision (which, in my opinion, have to do with things other than the actual merits of nutrition). If you start googling, there's a lot of stuff from Wolfe about what happened and his position and there are other boxes that disaffiliated with HQ for a variety of reasons. I find it interesting and love my box and the way it is run and I do not always agree with the decisions that Glassman and HQ make - nor I am a fan of all of the personalities involved.

That said, I'm pretty sure that Wolfe maintains a CF like regime. The woman that runs Everyday Paleo is a Wolfe disciple and does CF.

[juangela]

Initial thoughts, potentially rambling, but this guy pisses me off:

1. This is INCREDIBLY biased. Robb Wolf used to be a business partner with CrossFit HQ. CFHQ broke off that relationship and he is bitter. This isn't the first time I've seen/read things from him talking shit about CF.

2. I have NO doubt there are shitty boxes out there. I visited a few before I chose mine. I know not everyone is as lucky to have multiple boxes nearby, but I recommend you check out every one near you before joining one.

3. All of the boxes I visited, including the one I joined, have a diet component, so he is full of shit that they don't care. No one is forced to do paleo/zone/clean, but all of the trainers at my box recommend at least going gluten free. It is a gross overstatement to say that CF has given up on educating people on proper eating. Also, how I eat is MY responsibility and I was doing paleo before I started CF. I enjoy the encouragement of my trainers, but I'm the one making my food and eating it.

4. While I don't believe CF needs to be 'elite' and we aren't all going to be competitive CFers, CF isn't for everyone. He spends a lot of time talking about people with health issues. I don't know of anyone with health issues at my box, but our trainers are great at scaling and modifying workouts. For example, last Friday's workout called for cleans but my fingers (yes, my fingers) were incredibly sore. We modified it so I was doing snatches instead. And honestly, if you have fibromyalgia or a problem with a disk in your back or whatever, maybe an intense workout isn't for you. That doesn't make CF the enemy, that person probably isn't going to play football either. So is football the enemy now, too?

There are a lot of CF haters. There are lots of people who tried CF and didn't like it. I hate running like a hamster on the treadmill or biking to nowhere on a spinning bike...but that doesn't make them bad activities, they just aren't activities that I enjoy. I don't judge anyone for doing them, I just don't.

danielle: just trust your gut. If something doesn't feel right, or you aren't getting proper coaching through your workout (my trainer is RIGHT on the new people and watches the CF veterans closely, too), then you might not be in the right box. That is the sad part of how CFHQ does things: they will give anyone who pays the money and has a level 1 certification a license to use the name, but they don't do any QC to ensure that that box is operating right. Like everything else, be an educated consumer and you'll be fine .

[suzyp]

The quality control thing is a HUGE deal to me. It wasn't until I randomly got into some big chain of link upon link of this stuff one night that I learned there was no such control. CG HQ believes that the "cream rises to the top" and so they believe the bad boxes will close, the good ones will stay open. That's fine until someone who's never done CF goes to a shitty box, has a terrible experience and things CF sucks and will never try it again. The fact that I can go get my level one certification, pay some dues and open a box is ridiculous. I am pretty convinced that they do this on purpose becuase it helps to limit any liablity that HQ will have if someone gets hurt.

I personally find it a strange way to protect your brand, but I guess it's working for them so far, but we'll see if it lasts.

[allez]

There's a long history between Robb and Greg Glassman/Crossfit. I actually participated in one of Robb's last Crossfit nutrition seminars before the big blowout and, at that seminar, you could tell the end was near for Robb with Crossfit. Robb has had a lot of success post-CF and I think that it is deserved. I enjoy his work and he was a very approachable guy and answered all of our questions/concerns at the certification.

I am a CF drop out for various reasons, but primarily because of the issue of nagging injuries and cost. I don't necessarily believe that I was being properly instructed on technique/given the time I needed which led to the injuries and, if I am going to pay $100+ for a box membership, I want the attention that CF promises to provide. I didn't feel like I was getting value out of it and there are problems with quality control and I think that is a very legitimate concern since CF is growing so fast. If you have the cash and go to the weekend training, you can become an affiliate and/or coach and that does somewhat concern me as I want someone with more than a few days of training to coach me, especially when pushing heavy weight. I do question if it has become all about the money for some involved in CF.

That being said, I know that there are good boxes out there. Don't be scared to try it. Try several boxes (if that is an option) as you may like one better than another. The nice thing is that there is no strong obligation like a contract so you aren't committed to it financially if it isn't your thing.

[blinkinglight1]

I have been listening to Robb's podcast and I'm starting to put together the pieces as to what went down at the "black box summit." I think Robb seems to know what he's talking about (nutrition wise). I think the points he makes about CrossFit as a whole are valid, but not something I am specifically concerned about at my box.

[blinkinglight1]

May 29, 2012 15:11:10 GMT -5 suzyp said:

Agree with KrisB, there is a HUGE history of the falling out between Robb Wolfe and HQ. My understanding is that it stems from CF's nutritional decisions. I believe that CF is techinically aligned with the Zone Diet and not Paleo and there's some deeper underlying issues that led to this decision (which, in my opinion, have to do with things other than the actual merits of nutrition). If you start googling, there's a lot of stuff from Wolfe about what happened and his position and there are other boxes that disaffiliated with HQ for a variety of reasons. I find it interesting and love my box and the way it is run and I do not always agree with the decisions that Glassman and HQ make - nor I am a fan of all of the personalities involved.

That said, I'm pretty sure that Wolfe maintains a CF like regime. The woman that runs Everyday Paleo is a Wolfe disciple and does CF.

Sarah Fragoso? She does CF? I thought she was a trainer at NorCal S&C (where Robb trains too, I believe)? And yes, I agree with you. The things they talk about are VERY CF-ish. The only difference I've heard them mention is they don't believe in high rep Olifting.

[allez]

If I recall correctly, NorCal Strength used to be Crossfit Norcal but with all the fallout the affiliation went away too. She might have been a trainer back in those days too, I cannot remember at this time but I believe that it was at his cert (or shortly thereafter) that I started reading her blog.

[suzyp]

May 29, 2012 15:53:53 GMT -5 blinkinglight1 said:

May 29, 2012 15:11:10 GMT -5 suzyp said:

Agree with KrisB, there is a HUGE history of the falling out between Robb Wolfe and HQ. My understanding is that it stems from CF's nutritional decisions. I believe that CF is techinically aligned with the Zone Diet and not Paleo and there's some deeper underlying issues that led to this decision (which, in my opinion, have to do with things other than the actual merits of nutrition). If you start googling, there's a lot of stuff from Wolfe about what happened and his position and there are other boxes that disaffiliated with HQ for a variety of reasons. I find it interesting and love my box and the way it is run and I do not always agree with the decisions that Glassman and HQ make - nor I am a fan of all of the personalities involved.

That said, I'm pretty sure that Wolfe maintains a CF like regime. The woman that runs Everyday Paleo is a Wolfe disciple and does CF.

Sarah Fragoso? She does CF? I thought she was a trainer at NorCal S&C (where Robb trains too, I believe)? And yes, I agree with you. The things they talk about are VERY CF-ish. The only difference I've heard them mention is they don't believe in high rep Olifting.

Oops. I think you are right. I might be getting her confused with someone else, maybe the Nom Nom Paleo blogger! Sorry!

[danielle]

May 29, 2012 15:37:01 GMT -5 blinkinglight1 said:

I have been listening to Robb's podcast and I'm starting to put together the pieces as to what went down at the "black box summit." I think Robb seems to know what he's talking about (nutrition wise). I think the points he makes about CrossFit as a whole are valid, but not something I am specifically concerned about at my box.

robbwolf.com/2009/11/24/the-black-box-summit-or-how-i-got-fired-from-the-crossfit-nutrition-certification/

[nerdy]

I didn't watch that specific video, but I have read a lot about the fallout. There is a lot of bad blood there and you have to sift through things to really find out what is bitterness and what is truth. That said, the concerns about any Joe opening a box are valid. In fact, our box just had a mass exodous of coaches and our owner is scrambling to find people. We are in a globo gym and the owner doesn't understand CF and the lifestyle. So she hired on two trainers and is expecting to just get them a cert, poof! So most of us are leaving because of the lack of CF specific knowledge these guys will have.

However, anyone can get a CF cert JUST LIKE anyone can get a strength and conditioning cert, oly lifting cert, yada yada so on...in fact, I have heard of MANY globo gyms that hire trainers that are merely just people who workout a lot and research on their own. They have no legitimate, documented background whatsoever.

Of course, the best places to go are the places with very well rounded ATHLETES as coaches, that have a cert, that have a true background in your sport/athletics/nutrition and so on. But it doesn't matter where you go, you will find people hiring employees with no real anything to back up their knowledge.

On a tangent, do the Zumba, Spartan Training, Boot Camp, and so on folks have quality control? I haven't done much research, but what I have *heard* is that they also just do a weekend training type deal, or even online.