Ernie - why no WCM?

[laurack]

I am also curious about this. I have done zero research on the subject but I figured that since cow milk probably has a similar breakdown of pro/carb/fat to breastmilk, it would be the best option? I had planned to just buy organic milk from the local farm for her but as I said, zero research done.

I'd be interested to hear of reasons people are opposed to it, and with some links too if possible. I would like to read more about the subject.

Also, those who don't want to do WCM would you consider goat milk? I've heard it is easier to digest?

[devotchka]

I grew up in Russia and people didn't give their kids cow's milk when they are little. In fact, although that was one of the things that we could actually get at the store most of the time (soviet days) - we really didn't drink it per se, just used it in hot cereal and recipes for baking, etc. I feel like drinking a glass of milk a day is kind of an American thing, or maybe an American/UK/Western European thing. Maybe some of the non-Americans can chime in - but I just think it's weird, and I won't be giving the kiddo milk to drink, just water and maybe very diluted homemade juice once in a while. He can get calcium + stuff from cheese, yogurt and other dairy.

[Deleted]

Jan 3, 2013 11:26:32 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

With the approval of our pediatrician, at 12 months we gave Dylan 1% Organic milk fortified with DHA. He drank it for awhile but he lost interest in milk pretty quickly and now drinks mostly water. We give him chewy vitamins to be sure he is getting all the nutrients he needs. He also drinks one cup of OJ a day that is fortified with Vitamin D and calcium. I am not really against WCM but I don't think it is necessary to give a child that much saturated fat if you don't have to. You can give them healthy fat in other forms so the argument that they need the fat is not really valid IMO.

This is what I hope to do with my LO. I might BF her past a year in the morning and night, and then give some milk at lunch. I think we over value milk, especially with all the yogurt/cheese we also eat here.

Neither DH or I cows drink milk, we only really use it for cooking.

[dixeedeluxe]

My kid will not drink plain water (I tried until she was 19m old and she just refused). So I don't think twice about giving her milk. Now that she isn't on bottles, she drinks maybe 2 cups a day.

BUT, I also love milk. LOVE milk.

[thedahliharpa]

If I had the option to supplement with organic WCM I would. I will hold off as long as possible w/ milk alternatives. I don't see the point of filling them up with a lo cal/protein/fat liquid that is fortified w/vitamins when you could just give a vitamin and save room in their bellies for food. Cows milk is an easy way to get them the fat and protein they need. H is living proof that dairy is not needed to thrive but it is easy. H started getting milk alternatives at 20mos when she started Pre-school because I didn't want to ask to bring BM to school. I limit her soy milk consumption although it is her favorite and usually mix it w/ my almond milk. I'd like to get her completely switched to almond but she can read the labels enough and is always monitoring meal/drink prep. Oh and goats milk tastes like ass IMO and most kids who react to cows milk react to goat generally speaking.

[Deleted]

We plan to switch to goats milk and then eventually most likely almond or coconut milk for a while before we try cows milk. For us we'll be delaying cows milk/dairy products as long as possible due to her intolerance when I drink/eat it now.

[wildcatprincess]

We did goat milk for the initial switch with DD because she flat out refused cow's milk, but it's super pricey IMO. Now regular cow milk is her favorite thing in the world. I know a lot of moms who use alternatives due to allergies; goat is popular, hemp is supposed to be really good, and a lot do a mix of coconut and almond (something about one not having enough calcium and the other lacking something as well). Cheese super constipates her so we have to limit that and she doesn't love yogurt so milk was easy for us.

[erniebufflo]

Yeah, we're of the "the only people who say milk is healthy are paid by the dairy industry" school. And while we are not opposed to animal products altogether, that's just a LOT of cow milk and we would prefer something healthier for both the girls and the environment. If nut allergies aren't an issue, almond milk might be our winner.

[spaghetticat]

So if you are doing almond milk instead of WCM, how are you insuring they get the right amount of nutrients? I am sorry if I'm being dense. I just know that cow's milk might not be an option for us, so I am trying to think of what her diet will look like.

[rainbowchip]

I just had this conversation with a co-worker today. I live in Wisconsin so giving milk to my kids was sort of a no brainer to me, but I noticed when I limited my milk intake, my skin was clearer. So I started about switching to soy or almond, but I thought the price would be so much more. But, we buy Dylan organic which is around $7.50/gallon so it can't be that much cheaper. I still have to look into it. Maybe I will bring it up to the pedi at their appointment later this month.

[spaghetticat]

How do people feel about the estrogen issue with soy milk?

[imimahoney]

Coconut milk is a better alternative than almond milk. Almond milk does not have the fats needed that WCM supplies. You can do almond milk if you add additional protein and fats to it.

If we can't do WCM, we will do coconut milk and add in additional protein and fats. I am not a fan of soy at all and will avoid it all costs.

[monkeybabe]

I'm leery of too much soy. If I were going to substitute, I'd do an almond/coconut milk combo.

[claralou]

Jan 3, 2013 20:27:14 GMT -5 spaghetticat said:

How do people feel about the estrogen issue with soy milk?

This honestly freaks me out to the point that I gave up soy lattes (my fave) when I got pregnant, and have limited my intake significantly since then. I'm interested in what others have to say too. This thread, along with the vegetarian thread earlier remind me I need to start doing some damn research again, stat.

[erniebufflo]

Jan 3, 2013 20:04:49 GMT -5 spaghetticat said:

So if you are doing almond milk instead of WCM, how are you insuring they get the right amount of nutrients? I am sorry if I'm being dense. I just know that cow's milk might not be an option for us, so I am trying to think of what her diet will look like.

Calcium and Vit D are the biggies and almond milk is fortified with more than cow's milk has. Calories and fat can easily come from other foods.

[thedahliharpa]

Ernie, does the AAP still rec soy as their preferred milk alternative of choice? This is what I was told when H was 1. It didn't matter since we didn't wean.

I try to limit her soy consumption and only purchase organic non gmo North American grown soy milk and yogurt when we do buy it.

[thedahliharpa]

Jan 3, 2013 20:04:49 GMT -5 spaghetticat said:

So if you are doing almond milk instead of WCM, how are you insuring they get the right amount of nutrients? I am sorry if I'm being dense. I just know that cow's milk might not be an option for us, so I am trying to think of what her diet will look like.

I, because I am the way I am, would likely meet w/ a pediatric nutritionist and log everything.

[wildcatprincess]

Jan 3, 2013 22:35:17 GMT -5 erniebufflo said:

Jan 3, 2013 20:04:49 GMT -5 spaghetticat said:

So if you are doing almond milk instead of WCM, how are you insuring they get the right amount of nutrients? I am sorry if I'm being dense. I just know that cow's milk might not be an option for us, so I am trying to think of what her diet will look like.

Calcium and Vit D are the biggies and almond milk is fortified with more than cow's milk has. Calories and fat can easily come from other foods.

This is why a lot of pedis in the area recommend doing a mix of the two. I actually think Blue Diamond has an almond/coconut milk out right now.

[erniebufflo]

Jan 3, 2013 22:48:47 GMT -5 thedahliharpa said:

Ernie, does the AAP still rec soy as their preferred milk alternative of choice? This is what I was told when H was 1. It didn't matter since we didn't wean.

I try to limit her soy consumption and only purchase organic non gmo North American grown soy milk and yogurt when we do buy it.

I am not sure, but I think so? I know for hubby and me, the possibilities of hormone mimicking are enough of a concern that we won't solely do soy milk.

[Deleted]

I want to stay away from soy. Ds's pedi said we could use soy, coconut or almond milk. Honestly though, I really don't trust their opinions since all of the MSPI issues I had with him and they were clueless

[spaghetticat]

Is almond milk also not recommended until after a year? Is almond a highly allergenic nut?

[dixeedeluxe]

Jan 3, 2013 20:27:14 GMT -5 spaghetticat said:

How do people feel about the estrogen issue with soy milk?

If I'm not mistaken, the only real concern is when they are very young. I had Googled it, but now I've forgotten.

Adeline is soy formula fed. So was I. I'm the fattest of all my sisters (though now that they've had pregnancies and I've started to become active, it's evening out) and have the biggest boobs. I'm also the only one with 3 boobs! But I've always had very VERY regular periods and got pregnant pretty easily once I got my HPV taken care of. I'm only saying this in case anyone has any questions about "what happens when my kid is 30!"

[skiesthelimit]

X is MSPI so I won't be giving him WCM or any dairy products until he's 18 months. DH is vegan so we are still debating whether we will even give X dairy products.

I asked the pedi about a milk alternative yesterday but she didn't know. She mentioned soy milk but X is MSPI so can't have soy either.

DH and I drink almond milk and use coconut milk in recipes, so maybe we'll use a mix of that.

I plan on BFing him as long as possible so maybe I won't have to give him anything extra. Right now the only drink he has is water in a sippy at each meal.

If he's still BFing after a year he doesn't need anything else but water right?

[thedahliharpa]

Jan 4, 2013 9:41:40 GMT -5 skiesthelimit said:

If he's still BFing after a year he doesn't need anything else but water right?

Correct. H had nothing but BM and water for 20mos. I did pump for her during the day.

[thedahliharpa]

Skies- H only had water and BM for 20mos but I did pump during the day at work.

Ernie- That is what I figured. I guess it would take a lot of anti soy evidence to change the recommendation.

[skiesthelimit]

Thanks dahli

[erniebufflo]

Jan 4, 2013 7:35:10 GMT -5 spaghetticat said:

Is almond milk also not recommended until after a year? Is almond a highly allergenic nut?

From what I am finding, there is no evidence that delaying the intro of nuts reduces allergies. So, I feel comfortable with nuts at a year.

[skiesthelimit]

Jan 4, 2013 10:52:55 GMT -5 erniebufflo said:

Jan 4, 2013 7:35:10 GMT -5 spaghetticat said:

Is almond milk also not recommended until after a year? Is almond a highly allergenic nut?

From what I am finding, there is no evidence that delaying the intro of nuts reduces allergies. So, I feel comfortable with nuts at a year.

This. Also I've read that almonds are a low allergen nut. We already give X foods cooked with almond milk and he's been fine. We don't have any nut allergies in the family though.

[mabillon]

I've been doing a lot of reading on this since I haven't been sure whether DD would grow out of her dairy intolerance by one year (and I'll have to travel for work at 14 months so I want to make sure she's not cold-turkey on BM). She seems to be over the soy intolerance (well, through my BM at least) but I know that I don't want to give her soy milk for the reasons already mentioned.

The almond/coconut milk combo seems to be the general consensus in the world of blogs and internet forums but hemp milk seems to be increasing in popularity as well. It is the vegan substitute that seems to most closely mimic cow's milk. I haven't talked to our pedi and I'm definitely not done researching but I wanted to throw hemp milk out there for those considering other options.

Down side? It's pricey and not always easy to find. We'd probably order via Amazon Grocer.

ETA: the blog Daily Garnish was what got me started thinking about hemp milk. Her son just turned one.

[thedahliharpa]

I just could not get used to the taste of hemp milk and I tried every brand WF sells. It's just too planty and carboardy.