Sort of money matters, IQ test

[imojoebunny]

This is sort of MM because these test are expensive and insurance doesn't pay. The school won't do them for another year, which is another year lost for DD.

My DD struggles frustratingly in school. She has trouble with attention, according to the teacher, who seems very good, but has few symptoms at home of ADD. We are having her tested for a variety of things. Everyone, psychologist, teacher, school resource person agree her performance is not in line with her ability, so IQ is one of the test.

If you know your IQ, do you feel that it reflects your performance in school and/or in life?

I am suspicious of this test. I think a 6 year old is too young for it, and I have little faith in it at her age and fear that either way it turns out, it will set expectations for her. My own experience with my IQ vs. what I could accomplish are confusing to me. In some ways I see a strong correlation, but in others, I think that it set up expectations from the school and my parents (I did not know my IQ until I was an adult), and I fell into them because the teachers and my parents expected that, so that is the direction they pushed me in.

[Deleted]

That age or slightly older is actually the best age to test iQ, I believe.

I was tested at the end of 2nd grade. I was a good student before and after that, so it was appropriate for people to have high expectations of me. Honestly, I wish I had been pushed harder.

I was put in gifted classes which gave me confidence I think hanging out with other kids like me and a reprieve from the boredom (and probably for my teachers too.) Through high school kids were somewhat hostel when they saw signs I was smarter than them (especially around using words they didn't understand? That was weird.). I'm glad being smart was encouraged--I think that can be a hard transition for a lot of workers, especially women where you really can't be too smart in the workplace as long as you keep some humility.

I was easily distracted as a child and still am to an extent. I think it wasn't until I hit nearly 30 that I feel I am able to focus adequately and make my own structure.

[kaylie]

I think the test is supposed to be done when children are young. I took it when I was 7. It was a similar situation, but the teachers were telling my mom to put me in special ed and suspected that I was dim. My mom thought they were wrong and they were - I scored around a 150.

I don't think it reflects my performance in school/life at all. IQ is your ability to learn, but it doesn't account for motivation. The reason I wasn't doing my school work when I was 7 was that it was boring and I didn't want to do it. Certain things motivate me now, but just because I can learn a bunch of crap doesn't mean that I want to. The things I an interested in I can learn very easily.

FWIW, I didn't know my score until I found the report in high school so it didn't put any extra pressure on me. They did adjust my classwork to make it more challenging/interesting which helped.

[imojoebunny]

Jan 5, 2013 21:49:29 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

I have two questions:
1. Why is the teacher mentioning anything about ADD? Teachers really can't do anything along the lines of diagnosing or giving a suspected diagnosis.

The teacher doesn't say ADD, she just says in every conversation, "DD struggles with focus and ATTENTIOn.". Repeatedly. I get what she is saying, but at home, though DD bounces and cannot clean her room to save her life, she can sit and do a craft for 2 hours, or anything she is interested, listen to a story, act out a play, ect. the teacher is good about doing interventions in the class with her. She gets free after school tutoring, and adaptive lessons.

2. Instead of an IQ testing, why not push for a Psychoeducational Evaluation/ SpEd testing? If it's a public school, it will be free to you, you just need to push for it. If you are at a private school, it's still free, but you may need to push a bit harder for it. This way academic testing, and review of case history (past academic performance, medical history, present levels of performance) can be taken into account.

.

They will do this, but not until next year, meanwhile, it is another year of waiting and watching a kid who adores school get picked on and further behind.

Kaylie, in some ways I feel like DD is on the same page you are. She only learns what she has an interest in. The teacher was shocked when she got 100% on a science test about plant parts, but she has been interested in plant parts since she was two and ask for her own flower garden. She loves her garden and can plan and care for it just fine, but trying to get her to learn something she is not into is painful, if not impossible.

If she were closer to 8, I would have more faith in the test. I just think 6 is young, and that like walking and talking, there is a wide range of when kids develop the skills the test measures.

[lindyanne]

I agree that she should be able to get something now. I was placed in gifted toward the beginning of first grade. If you get the IQ test and it shows she is gifted, are they going to do anything with it or do you still have to wait until next year for "their test"? I guess that impacts my answer.

[secst26]

Might consider looking in a neuropsychological evaluation by someone who specializes(preferably board certified by ABPP) in children/pediatrics. They do IQ testing, but also test other areas of cognition, such as attention, memory, etc. They can assist in ruling out ADD as well as provide concrete recommendations for school.

[SusanBAnthony]

Ds just had end at five. 3k for a full ASD eval. Ouch. They have different tests for different aged kids. I am glad we spent the money.

[Deleted]

Six is not too young. Her scores will be compared to the norms of other six year olds, and you will be able to see relative strengths and weaknesses. A lot of research has gone into test development and is based on looking at cognitive functioning, not necessarily skills that one develops. In the absence of brain damage or other impairments, intelligence is pretty stable over time. What are you worried will happen regarding expectations? Also, you say she is getting picked on - for what and by whom?

[imojoebunny]

We are doing the whole battery of test with a licensed psychologist who specializes in educational testing, and will also do the medical side. Even if we waited, the school does not do the ADD type test, that is considered medical. My mothers instinct, which has never been spot on, leads me to believe she has some sort of issue with taking in what the teacher says in the front of the room, and processing it enough to understand it. Since she can't process it, she's retreats into her own rich imaginary world. The interventions she is currently getting that allow her to have one one one or work on her own, with assistance as needed, seem to help immensely. It seems to be things that require her to listen across the room and learn that don't work for her.

While they will evaluate her for talented and gifted, or whatever they call it these days, she will not make the cut, as a large part of the criteria for her grade is doing well in class. I was one of 3 parents out of 23 who did not self refer for that testing last year. I am not worried about her being a genius, I am worried about her getting out of first grade. My concern about the IQ test is that it will not be accurate, and then they will say she is too smart or too dumb and be satisfied with that, and not look for the real issue, which I am pretty sure is there.

[puppyluv]

Completely off topic, but are you the same joebunny from thenest who had a house near you that was running an unzoned business or something? I have been wondering what ever happened with that and if the city ever interveened.

[imojoebunny]

Jan 5, 2013 22:44:33 GMT -5 @applesauce said:

Six is not too young. Her scores will be compared to the norms of other six year olds, and you will be able to see relative strengths and weaknesses. A lot of research has gone into test development and is based on looking at cognitive functioning, not necessarily skills that one develops. In the absence of brain damage or other impairments, intelligence is pretty stable over time. What are you worried will happen regarding expectations? Also, you say she is getting picked on - for what and by whom?

About the picking, She gets picked on by the other girls in her class. There is only one girl who is nice to her, and only because she has the same problem. I have gotten several notes from other parents apologizing for things their kids have done to DD. i am the room mom, so they all know me. DD never even mentioned the incidents to me, even if I don't know them. Even when questioned, she seems to relate it like "whatever mommy, they were mean to me". The teacher has told me that she seems not to care that the other kids are mean to her, so she keeps coming back for more, by continuing to be nice to them, which makes her an easy target. She has friends, real ones that are nice, and she loves and plays well with, but they are mostly older by a year or so, or in one case younger by a year. It doesn't help that the kids notice she is in remedial tutoring and gets classroom accommodations.

[hereonceagain]

I had the test at 12. The results were horrible and affected me greatly. I just thought everyone expected me to be dumb after that. I felt very insecure about the results, which were hidden from me (I found them inadvertently later). And my parents really didn't change anything re: my education, etc., after receiving the results. I still wonder what their purpose was.

[Deleted]

How literal does she take things? Is she able to pick up on subtle jokes, sarcasm, or understand statements like "I'm so hungry I could eat a horse"?

[imojoebunny]

Jan 5, 2013 22:58:06 GMT -5 puppyluv said:

Completely off topic, but are you the same joebunny from thenest who had a house near you that was running an unzoned business or something? I have been wondering what ever happened with that and if the city ever interveened.

Yep. It has gone to Dekalb county 2x and been deferred each time at all the public hearings. I publically stay out of it now, as I was threatened with physical assault and other things in a publc meeting in August by a person associated with the entity who said she was watching my house and my children. The person who made the threats ran by my house on Friday twice, so I know she is still watching us. She does not live nearby, so I know it was purposeful. She is a total freak. They have targeted us one by one, and as a group, in hopes of avoiding following the law. Fortunately, the law is on our side, the side of safety and zoning laws designed to prevent bars and dance clubs from popping up in single family homes, and Dekalb County knows this.

[imojoebunny]

Jan 5, 2013 23:06:56 GMT -5 @applesauce said:

How literal does she take things? Is she able to pick up on subtle jokes, sarcasm, or understand statements like "I'm so hungry I could eat a horse"?

She regularly uses these types of phrases in conversations with me. I am pretty sarcastic and she seems to understand and will often laugh when I say something in that vein. Verbally, she has an above grade vocabulary. She started talking at 11 months old, and hasn't stopped since. Sometimes I question my memory of that, but then my neighbor reminds me that she could say "Hi, Tighlman" before her first birthday.

[Deleted]

I know my IQ & my performance in early school (1st-2nd grade) definitely did not reflect that. I almost got held back in First Grade & struggled hard to learn to read. By 3rd, I had a teacher that "got" me & is the first teacher that put me in gifted. The rest of school went OK--I was in honors/gifted & a good student (A/B) but I had issues with study habits, spelling, etc. that persist to this day. I went on to excel in college in a tough major & earn huge scholarship to a top 10 school in my field (U of Mich) for grad school. I did better in school the more focused on my major I got.

Fast Forward: DD1 is in K & STRUGGLING to read...it's deja vu. She's exactly like I was at that age. She is super bright & creative but couldn't remember the simplest words page to page. I had her tested at the end of Kindergarten. It was pricey. Well her scores were all over the place--scoring from beginning K in some areas to 8th grade in others. Diagnosis--Dyslexia. She also has ADD-I & Dysgraphia. She was in intensive Orton-Gillingham tutoring with an OG Fellow from end of K until now (mid-semester 2nd grade). Everything we paid has been OOP...testing, therapy (she was ST) & tutoring (plus private school). It costs us many thousands. But it was worth it...she's conquered her issues & is reading at 4th grade level. Spelling will likely be a lifelong struggle but she's doing amazing in school. It was worth the pain. Hindsight I am 100% positive I also have her issues & just struggled through until I memorized enough to read decently. I am sure she could have made it too but now she's got a set if tools I'll never have. Her phonics knowledge is amazing. My point is that typically LDs (at least Dyslexia) is not even caught until 3rd grade or later. I'm very glad I went ahead & took action early. Early intervention does wonders. DD was up to grade level actually last March but I kept up the tutoring as a precaution the last 8ish months. That money is the best money I've spent in my life.

[mcsangel2]

I have to ask a really obvious question based on one of your replies above: any chance she's hard of hearing? I am hearing impaired since birth (diagnosed in kindergarten), and I always had to sit near to the teacher so I could hear. (Which doesn't work when the teacher turns their back, as I have to sort of read their lips while they talk).

[imojoebunny]

Jan 5, 2013 23:04:07 GMT -5 hereonceagain said:

I had the test at 12. The results were horrible and affected me greatly. I just thought everyone expected me to be dumb after that. I felt very insecure about the results, which were hidden from me (I found them inadvertently later). And my parents he is really didn't change anything re: my education, etc., after receiving the results. I still wonder what their purpose was.

That is my fear, that they will not change the education part no matter what the results are because if she is too smart, they will say she is just too smart and is board, and if is below average, they will just say, she can't keep up, and they can't change that she is not as smart as the other kids. What she seems to need is different teaching and coping/study skills. Her teacher this year is very innovative, so even without a "diagnosis" she tries very hard to find ways to help, but when she gets a regular teacher, who is not motivated to give 150%, I am terrified of what will happen.

[imojoebunny]

Jan 5, 2013 23:57:43 GMT -5 mcsangel2 said:

I have to ask a really obvious question based on one of your replies above: any chance she's hard of hearing? I am hearing impaired since birth (diagnosed in kindergarten), and I always had to sit near to the teacher so I could hear. (Which doesn't work when the teacher turns their back, as I have to sort of read their lips while they talk).

I have taken her to a pediatric opthomologist and she is screened at her pediatrician for hearing, and they found no problems. It is a good suggestion though, it was the first route I went down.

[imojoebunny]

Jan 5, 2013 23:51:38 GMT -5 L said:

I know my IQ & my performance in early school (1st-2nd grade) definitely did not reflect that. I almost got held back in First Grade & struggled hard to learn to read. By 3rd, I had a teacher that "got" me & is the first teacher that put me in gifted. The rest of school went OK--I was in honors/gifted & a good student (A/B) but I had issues with study habits, spelling, etc. that persist to this day. I went on to excel in college in a tough major & earn huge scholarship to a top 10 school in my field (U of Mich) for grad school. I did better in school the more focused on my major I got.

Fast Forward: DD1 is in K & STRUGGLING to read...it's deja vu. She's exactly like I was at that age. She is super bright & creative but couldn't remember the simplest words page to page. I had her tested at the end of Kindergarten. It was pricey. Well her scores were all over the place--scoring from beginning K in some areas to 8th grade in others. Diagnosis--Dyslexia. She also has ADD-I & Dysgraphia. She was in intensive Orton-Gillingham tutoring with an OG Fellow from end of K until now (mid-semester 2nd grade). Everything we paid has been OOP...testing, therapy (she was ST) & tutoring (plus private school). It costs us many thousands. But it was worth it...she's conquered her issues & is reading at 4th grade level. Spelling will likely be a lifelong struggle but she's doing amazing in school. It was worth the pain. Hindsight I am 100% positive I also have her issues & just struggled through until I memorized enough to read decently. I am sure she could have made it too but now she's got a set if tools I'll never have. Her phonics knowledge is amazing. My point is that typically LDs (at least Dyslexia) is not even caught until 3rd grade or later. I'm very glad I went ahead & took action early. Early intervention does wonders. DD was up to grade level actually last March but I kept up the tutoring as a precaution the last 8ish months. That money is the best money I've spent in my life.

This was me exactly, only without the dyslexia. I learned to read through memorizations and no one had any idea I could not sound out words until 4th grade. I also could not spell my way out of a paper bag. I have had her evaluated for dyslexia and she has some signs, but not severe, and have a friend who was an O-G teacher at a special school for dyslexia here who has helped a lot by giving me tips on how to help her. My own years spent with OG tutors for my lack of ability to sound out words and to spell gave me a lot of tricks too. Depending on how the testing comes out, the OG tutor is definitely something I will put in our basket, despite the $700 a month it will cost, gulp! I still can't spell my way out of a paper bag, but I can read like the wind.

Can I ask you this? Dysgraphia is suppose to come with terrible handwriting, is that true of your daughter? I have very good handwriting, and after a year of handwriting OT, DD's is not terrible, but the lack of ability to spell seems to be a constant problem for both of us. DD has spelling test each week, and despite studying for 2+ hours over the course of the week for 10-15 words, regularly fails them.

[mrsfarmer]

Quite honestly, this sounds like me in school, but without some of the testing. The guidance counselor did test me as advanced in some classes, but the teacher flat out refused to believe it. This was private school, so I am not sure of the options. I learned to self teach. There were times what the teacher said made absolutely no sense, so I figured it out myself. My future teachers I think realized it so that even if I appeared distracted or bored in class, they didn't care since I was performing.

I am still like that. I self studied for CPA exam and passed. There are days I say things regarding something DH and I are trying to figure out, and he cannot understand my train of thought. I am usually right, he just know how I get there. The one area I get stuck in is trying to think like this while talking. If I have the thoughts till developing, I may stutter or completely forget what I am saying.

[ellipses84]

Jan 6, 2013 0:12:07 GMT -5 imojoebunny said:

Jan 5, 2013 23:57:43 GMT -5 mcsangel2 said:

I have to ask a really obvious question based on one of your replies above: any chance she's hard of hearing? I am hearing impaired since birth (diagnosed in kindergarten), and I always had to sit near to the teacher so I could hear. (Which doesn't work when the teacher turns their back, as I have to sort of read their lips while they talk).

I have taken her to a pediatric opthomologist and she is screened at her pediatrician for hearing, and they found no problems. It is a good suggestion though, it was the first route I went down.

Partial deafness can go undetected for a long time and may only be picked up after a lot of testing by an audiologist, so a Pedi's screening may not catch it. Just info for others readers, I'm not necessarily saying that is your daughters issue.

I think the IQ test would be accurate now, so if it would give you peace of mind, you should pay for it rather than worrying for a year. However, I would find out what they plan to do with the info. during the next year and if it is really going to be that helpful for a diagnosis. I know some states/ schools will refer a child to the children's hospital for several days of testing by many specialists in various fields to provide a comprehensive report. The parent can request it be repeated in a year of they don't agree with the results.

You are your child's biggest advocate, not any Dr. or Teacher, so trust your mommy instinct. It sounds like you are doing a great job already!

[hlke]

I had my IQ tested at 7, and again at 19. The one at 19 was part of full neuropsychological testing and I was Dx'd with ADD. They need the IQ test in part to scale the other tests to her IQ. On some of the ADD tests, my results were below average for someone my age, but severely impaired compared to someone of my age and IQ.

I understand parents are often worried testing and diagnoses will follow the kid or get them "labeled". I would encourage you to just look at it as another piece of information about what is going on with DD. If you feel it doesn't fully reflect her abilities, you can always repeat the test. Ultimately I think going undiagnosed for 19 years hurt me much more than knowing my IQ at an early age. When I was 7, they only ran the IQ test, and since I did fine, didn't do any other tests because my mom didn't want me labeled.

Good luck in finding answers for DD. You are lucky to have such a great teacher this year, but your instinct to figure things out because not very teacher will be so great is exactly right.

Just one more note. Girls often present with ADD differently than boys. The only focusing on things of high interest is a common symptom in ADD. It's called hyperfocus and can be a great strength in people with ADD when managed correctly.

[Deleted]

A couple things. DO NOT let the schools do the testing first if you can afford private testing and you think you'll want services. Get your own testing done and bring it to the schools and request services. (I say this but I got so frustrated with the 7 mos wait to get into the developmental ped that I had the school do some testing on DS2 and surprisingly they agreed with his speech therapist that he had sensory issues but they didn't pick up the ASD). We did a developmental ped evaluation because our insurance paid for it. DS2 seems to be doing well but if he backslides we'll go ahead and do the ed. eval. There are 2 places here that do them. 1 is a local private school that is very well respected with LDs and the other is Vanderbilt. Both charge $2k and insurance doesn't cover it. I'm not sure IQ testing is accurate for every kid, especially one with a "known" problem like ADD. My friend's son is ASD he has a had a few pyscho-ed evals. The last one the psychiatrist said that he's "gifted" but the way his brain works he probably won't do well on standardized testing. I think that is more useful info than your IQ is 126.

As for the girls being mean and social issues. I don't know how big your school is but if you have an IEP you can ask for a classroom reset as part of the IEP. It means she'd get all new kids next year.

My DS2 has been doing a fabulous program called "Super Flex" It is a group social therapy and the kids in his group are ASD, ADHD, and PPO so a variety of dx. He has really responded to it and I've seen it working already after 8 sessions. He has started making friends, learning how to stay in the group, and general social behaviors.

[Deleted]

ADD is highly over diagnosed these days. Of course that doesn't mean that your daughter doesn't have it, but one of the other criteria is that it must present in two environments, school/work being one of them, but there must be another. You only mentioned school. However, as your daughter is six, if I recall correctly, she does meet the other criteria, that is of being diagnosed before age seven.

Take her to a psychiatrist and have her assessed for ADHD/ADD, and mention that you also want to see if perhaps she has a Learning Disability. LDs can present similarly in children that age, in terms of the outward manifestation of the behavior and the perceived inability to concentrate, but the reasons are completely different and therefore so are the treatments. An LD kid will not respond well to ADD treatment, and vice versa. That is one of the reasons ADD is being so over diagnosed - a lot of them are really LDs that are slipping through the cracks, so make sure you take her to a very good, very experienced child psychiatrist. Your pediatrician should be able to make some recommendations. Good luck!